New Zealand Men's U-20s

coochiee

I think Niche Cache also mentioned that not all of the squad in Argentina will make it as pros, and some who weren't picked (aka like Alex Greive) will kick on.

Carlin @carlxn_

Disappointing end to the U20 World Cup; but that won’t be the end for those players nor should it be. This generation has a lot to still give

Even excluding the 21 who went to Argentina, these 39 players are just some of the quality local talent left out and there’s no doubt a lot more

If Eric Ziu made that list of could-have-beens, well....I shudder. He's garbage.

It would be good to see a shake up with fresh coaching staff in the national youth space. 
It all just looks too cozy and nice,. Give someone with a bit of get up and go a shot please

I mean how much worse could some fresh blood fare?

My 2 cents after this morning.

Bazeley isn’t up to the job of U20 or All Whites. Tactically he just isn’t up to scratch.

From what I saw of the Argentina and US matches we were pretty abysmal.

However.

When I started following NZ Football I never would have expected us to consistently make the knock outs of the U20 world cup. The fact we can complain that our performances in round of 16 are sub-par, shows how far we’ve come. Previously we’d complain about being sub par in the group phase.

There’s a gulf in class between the top teams and us. That’s obvious. But we can be competitive a tier or two down which wasn’t the case in the past.

Lastly, we have some talented players in the team. Conchie, Surman, Karunaratne, and Herdman could all have bright futures.

coochiee

Jon

Hi guys - USA fan stopping by to learn a little about our opponents today. Would love to hear perspective on the match from your side, some players from NZ to look out for and answer any questions about the US team!

The US team had a really strong showing in the group stage (although I agree as someone mentioned that it was a somewhat weak group). The technical level across our squad is higher than any we have had in our history, and that is definitely raising the floor of our play. The main weakness of our team I think is lacking finishers, especially when we play without a true center forward, which we often do since our only one is Darren Yapi #19. While he has shown some flashes, he is not one of our best 11. Our best CF in this age group, Ricardo Pepi, is a senior player now and the coach elected not to bring him. So, we may dominate possession and create a lot of chances but we may open up more and leave space for the counter the longer it stays 0-0 (first goal was 66' against Fiji but they couldn't take advantage).

Most of our players are squad level or in the fringes in MLS, but a few around Europe as well. I don't know how well-known they are outside of American soccer circles, so happy to answer questions if anyone has any!

Your Post would have come through about 1am NZ time (KO was 5.30am NZ time), but apologies no one responded earlier. Congrats on your win.

Quick question was ex NZ National coach, now ex USA interim coach Anthony Hudson, rated in the US football community?

Yeah, I just thought to look for a forum like this a few hours before the game, figured it was a bit too late.

I think most casual fans probably didn't know much about him. He had a pretty poor spell as coach of an MLS side (Colorado) and came into the US setup after that. Up until the World Cup, pretty much nobody thought about him at all as he was just an assistant. He took over as interim manager in January since the federation was (and still is) working to make a permanent hire.

In his short time, people seemed to generally like him as he called in and picked some players that fans wanted to see and was able to help us to secure the commitment of a key dual-national player, striker Folarin Balogun, who scored 20 goals in France on loan from Arsenal this season.

We didn't play any important/difficult matches with him in charge, so it's difficult to have a strong opinion about his in-game management. Again, most fans probably didn't know much about him at all, for me he seemed like a nice guy who got on well with the players. But if he had been appointed permanent manager myself and most fans would have been thoroughly disappointed.

Thanks for the feedback Jon. Good to know our National team isn't the only one after several months still looking for a permanent coach.

coochiee

Thanks for the feedback Jon. Good to know our National team isn't the only one after several months still looking for a permanent coach.

 This is nothing! After we missed the 2018 WC we had an interim coach for more than a year...hoping it's not as long this time

coochiee

carlind

siac

carlind

Ranix

siac

Well that was terrible. 2 goals from goalkeeping errors, 2 goals from giving the ball away under no pressure (one an attacking free kick).

Hard to think of any guys who had a good tourn overall. Surman and Herdman both looked capable at times but not much else.

A week ago there were certain pundits calling for Surman and Herdman to be drafted straight into the senior team. Wonder what those people think now. I thought that was all a bit premature at the time.

Agreed, if they become good enough they'll get their chance in due course, there's no need to fast track them in. If Herdman gets solid MLS minutes and Surman stands out in the A League then by all means. If they don't ever break that cusp of prospect into senior player, then it's hard to argue they deserve it. In situ, however, Surman is ostensibly a Central League player - he only played 148 A League minutes across 28 matches, and Herdman is playing Next Pro, which is a reserve league and a lower level than USL Champ with guys like Collier, Dyer, Randall.

There is a possible reason to fast track Herdman (think Stensness and Boyd)...  so if he ever gets good enough Canada won't come calling. Although friendlies don't count for cap tying someone... so I'm not sure what matches NZ actually play that could cap tie him other than OFC qualifiers. 

True, though the earliest possible cap-tying would be whenever the OFC qualifying starts. I wonder if OFC persist with the Nations Cup whether NZF will even enter the All Whites? They weren't planning to in 2020 for a tournament being hosted in New Zealand, let alone in the islands. So possibly as late as September next year could be the first chance. 

Even then, the current rules allow under 21 players to still switch after a competitive appearance, so long as they have no more than three, so maybe push that back to November 2024. Herdman turns 21 in August 2025. The Canada head coach will also have no difficulty having a quiet word in his ear about being 'injured' for a window if he wants to keep Jay open for their own 2026 World Cup.

Last year's Canadian guest (Juneof86) said Jay Herdman was no where near the Canadian team. He was only in their wider group U20 setup after all. Doubt much has changed 6-12 mths later.

He's also got his large silver fern tat, so there should be a FIFA bylaw that says that is equal to playing 3 competitive matches to be cap tied!  Herdman junior was born in NZ (unlike say Stensness). Everyone is different, but I think country of birth can create a stronger bond, than just straight parentage. I understand that mystery man Champness was born in NZ, so might explain him choosing us over Aus.

 

I’m still lurking Coochiee! I came away with a positive opinion of Herdman after watching a small amount of the US match and all of the Guatemala match (I’m still annoyed we lost to those guys, but we had a poor qualifying tournament on the whole). As you say Herdman was in camp and didn’t make the final squad of 20 for our qualifying run. I think we over-rated some players at European clubs who didn’t perform well enough in qualifying and we probably could have used Jay. There’s a 2003-born Canadian that we didn’t use in qualifying who looks like he’s off to the UEFA U21s with Croatia now. One of the players we did call up for qualifying just got called up by the Portugal U18s yesterday… so while I think it’s odd that the son of our national team manager is playing for another country, we have a lot of players with a lot of options and trying to keep them in the fold is a juggling act.

In the bigger picture, there are players of a similar age (or the same age) as Herdman playing in MLS at the same position. Some aren’t impressing (and some are), but they are getting first-team minutes. I haven’t seen the Vancouver reserves yet this season, but Habibullah has four goals in 10 and Coupland has 2 goals and 3 assists so far and they’re both 2003-born and play similar positions as Herdman… so we’ll see where he fits with that group when he returns from Argentina before I even think about him breaking into the Whitecaps’ first team. He’s young so things can change quickly, but there’s nothing to think he’s going to break into the senior Canadian team by 2026. 

If he even wants that at this point. I noted that tattoo and felt he seemed pretty committed to being an All White. 

well  even though the keeper , herdman,  hughes  surman were ok,  I ALSO liked linder and the number 3  is very good going forward but not so good defending,  reminds me of DENIS IRWIN  supyk,  the nz player was conchie

i hope 5-6 at least from this squad in the senior squad

my pick
sims 
surman 
hughes 
supyk
conchie
herdman 

are ready 

JAVIER16

well  even though the keeper , herdman,  hughes  surman were ok,  I ALSO liked linder and the number 3  is very good going forward but not so good defending,  reminds me of DENIS IRWIN  supyk,  the nz player was conchie

i hope 5-6 at least from this squad in the senior squad

my pick
sims 
surman 
hughes 
supyk
conchie
herdman 

are ready 

Most of those guys don't even have a minute of senior football at a reasonable club level... at a minimum someone should need to pove themselves in A League quality or better to be considered for the mens national team.

Did you watch the USA game? Sims had a shocker... He wouldn't be in top several keepers we have.

siac

JAVIER16

well  even though the keeper , herdman,  hughes  surman were ok,  I ALSO liked linder and the number 3  is very good going forward but not so good defending,  reminds me of DENIS IRWIN  supyk,  the nz player was conchie

i hope 5-6 at least from this squad in the senior squad

my pick
sims 
surman 
hughes 
supyk
conchie
herdman 

are ready 

Most of those guys don't even have a minute of senior football at a reasonable club level... at a minimum someone should need to pove themselves in A League quality or better to be considered for the mens national team.

Did you watch the USA game? Sims had a shocker... He wouldn't be in top several keepers we have.

Mostly agree. None of them deserve to be in AWs yet. Surman likely the closed given lack of CB depth. Sims did have a shocker but he’s better than that. Promising keeper

And thanks for the Herdman update from our Canadian correspondent 

Rufus geronimo

It would be good to see a shake up with fresh coaching staff in the national youth space. 
It all just looks too cozy and nice,. Give someone with a bit of get up and go a shot please

I mean how much worse could some fresh blood fare?

Still digesting the game. Overall sense really disorganized and disjointed. Set pieces were abysmal.....not sure who tasked Garbett with free kicks and corners or even if they practiced set pieces. At this level you can be forgiven for one bad ball, but three in a row is unforgiveable. Conchie has a great delivery and if you  need a left footer Wallace puts in a decent ball. Nix who make up the bulk of the squad play 4222. Common sense dictates that this formation should have been considered or Whole of Football rolled out with much fanfare a while back is based on NZ teams playing 433. Surely either of these formations would have been preferable to 3 CB's or even the 4231. We lacked pace and intensity and the formation we played would not have helped. Collotty and Donkers were so isolated but yet the keeper often just hoofed the ball up to them. 9's would have had a maximum of 20 touches between them the entire tournament. I really don't think that our players are technically as poor as they looked, but the organisation and coaching did them no justice. There is no way that a team coached by say Sam Wilkinson, Chris Greenacre, Matt Calcott or Paul Ifill would be as disorganised as what we saw from this squad. Time for a total cleanout of coaching staff in the age grade space.  The jobs for pals culture needs to be hit on the head if we are to progress. That said the team are to be congratulated on making last 16 but just think they could have got a lot more out of this team. 

Nigeria just knocked out Argentina, beating them 2-0. None of the group goes into the final eight after us, Uzbekistan and Argentina all lost Round of 16 ties without scoring a goal. 

Nigeria finished third in their group; beating Dominican Republic and Italy and losing to Brazil. Italy (2-1 over England) and Brazil (4-1 over Tunisia) both also won this morning, so looks like that was the strongest group.

JUSTSAYING

Rufus geronimo

It would be good to see a shake up with fresh coaching staff in the national youth space. 
It all just looks too cozy and nice,. Give someone with a bit of get up and go a shot please

I mean how much worse could some fresh blood fare?

Still digesting the game. Overall sense really disorganized and disjointed. Set pieces were abysmal.....not sure who tasked Garbett with free kicks and corners or even if they practiced set pieces. At this level you can be forgiven for one bad ball, but three in a row is unforgiveable. Conchie has a great delivery and if you  need a left footer Wallace puts in a decent ball. Nix who make up the bulk of the squad play 4222. Common sense dictates that this formation should have been considered or Whole of Football rolled out with much fanfare a while back is based on NZ teams playing 433. Surely either of these formations would have been preferable to 3 CB's or even the 4231. We lacked pace and intensity and the formation we played would not have helped. Collotty and Donkers were so isolated but yet the keeper often just hoofed the ball up to them. 9's would have had a maximum of 20 touches between them the entire tournament. I really don't think that our players are technically as poor as they looked, but the organisation and coaching did them no justice. There is no way that a team coached by say Sam Wilkinson, Chris Greenacre, Matt Calcott or Paul Ifill would be as disorganised as what we saw from this squad. Time for a total cleanout of coaching staff in the age grade space.  The jobs for pals culture needs to be hit on the head if we are to progress. That said the team are to be congratulated on making last 16 but just think they could have got a lot more out of this team. 

Agreed, it is too easy for NZF, we need coaches with new ideas and someone who can instil a good brand of play. Unfortunately I don't think that will happen but it will be interesting to see who does the Olympic squad, likely the same duo as U20's. 

carlind

Nigeria just knocked out Argentina, beating them 2-0. None of the group goes into the final eight after us, Uzbekistan and Argentina all lost Round of 16 ties without scoring a goal. 

Nigeria finished third in their group; beating Dominican Republic and Italy and losing to Brazil. Italy (2-1 over England) and Brazil (4-1 over Tunisia) both also won this morning, so looks like that was the strongest group.

Wow, that's not a great reflection on the NZ performance (Argentina had 30 shots to 0 or something against us!). I was hoping/expecting them to beat most other teams (except maybe the US) by a few goals too.

Football Ted

JUSTSAYING

Rufus geronimo

It would be good to see a shake up with fresh coaching staff in the national youth space. 
It all just looks too cozy and nice,. Give someone with a bit of get up and go a shot please

I mean how much worse could some fresh blood fare?

Still digesting the game. Overall sense really disorganized and disjointed. Set pieces were abysmal.....not sure who tasked Garbett with free kicks and corners or even if they practiced set pieces. At this level you can be forgiven for one bad ball, but three in a row is unforgiveable. Conchie has a great delivery and if you  need a left footer Wallace puts in a decent ball. Nix who make up the bulk of the squad play 4222. Common sense dictates that this formation should have been considered or Whole of Football rolled out with much fanfare a while back is based on NZ teams playing 433. Surely either of these formations would have been preferable to 3 CB's or even the 4231. We lacked pace and intensity and the formation we played would not have helped. Collotty and Donkers were so isolated but yet the keeper often just hoofed the ball up to them. 9's would have had a maximum of 20 touches between them the entire tournament. I really don't think that our players are technically as poor as they looked, but the organisation and coaching did them no justice. There is no way that a team coached by say Sam Wilkinson, Chris Greenacre, Matt Calcott or Paul Ifill would be as disorganised as what we saw from this squad. Time for a total cleanout of coaching staff in the age grade space.  The jobs for pals culture needs to be hit on the head if we are to progress. That said the team are to be congratulated on making last 16 but just think they could have got a lot more out of this team. 

Agreed, it is too easy for NZF, we need coaches with new ideas and someone who can instil a good brand of play. Unfortunately I don't think that will happen but it will be interesting to see who does the Olympic squad, likely the same duo as U20's. 

The Olympic qualifiers will be hosted in New Zealand from 27 August to 9 September, according to the OFC calendar. Given the talent disparity between us and the rest of OFC is only somewhat mitigated due to the away climates, I can only see a home tournament being even more dominant than usual. If anything, the other teams would probably be the ones stifled by a cold, rainy August day, so could be even easier than an equal playing field.

It will also be impossible to find someone to replace them on such short notice before the end of August. Of course who will know the players better than the current coaching staff of Bazeley and Temple? It's probably safest to keep them for the tournament isn't it? I mean, if they beat Cook Islands 12-0 at North Harbour in front of a crowd of a couple parents how can you get rid of them? Then it'll of course only be fair for those successful coaches to take the Olympics too. 

But why not give the U22/23s coaching role to the new AWs coach as well. That's assuming it won't be Bazeley.

AWs will just be playing friendlies until late 2024. A number of AWs like Matt Garbett, Stamenic plus 3 over age players will all be available for the Paris Olympics (July-August 2024). Gives the AWs coach the chance to test their mettle in a proper competitive tourney with all the pressures that come with that. With no Confeds Cup, is the only real prep tourney the AWs & coaching staff will have before 2026 WC. Hay did both roles, and the Tokyo campaign was important in his buildup to the CR playoff game.

You can have Bazeley & Figueira along as assistants, with their intel on the various players.

Of course that all assumes NZF appoint a new AWs coach before August & that it won't be Baze.

carlind

Football Ted

JUSTSAYING

Rufus geronimo

It would be good to see a shake up with fresh coaching staff in the national youth space. 
It all just looks too cozy and nice,. Give someone with a bit of get up and go a shot please

I mean how much worse could some fresh blood fare?

Still digesting the game. Overall sense really disorganized and disjointed. Set pieces were abysmal.....not sure who tasked Garbett with free kicks and corners or even if they practiced set pieces. At this level you can be forgiven for one bad ball, but three in a row is unforgiveable. Conchie has a great delivery and if you  need a left footer Wallace puts in a decent ball. Nix who make up the bulk of the squad play 4222. Common sense dictates that this formation should have been considered or Whole of Football rolled out with much fanfare a while back is based on NZ teams playing 433. Surely either of these formations would have been preferable to 3 CB's or even the 4231. We lacked pace and intensity and the formation we played would not have helped. Collotty and Donkers were so isolated but yet the keeper often just hoofed the ball up to them. 9's would have had a maximum of 20 touches between them the entire tournament. I really don't think that our players are technically as poor as they looked, but the organisation and coaching did them no justice. There is no way that a team coached by say Sam Wilkinson, Chris Greenacre, Matt Calcott or Paul Ifill would be as disorganised as what we saw from this squad. Time for a total cleanout of coaching staff in the age grade space.  The jobs for pals culture needs to be hit on the head if we are to progress. That said the team are to be congratulated on making last 16 but just think they could have got a lot more out of this team. 

Agreed, it is too easy for NZF, we need coaches with new ideas and someone who can instil a good brand of play. Unfortunately I don't think that will happen but it will be interesting to see who does the Olympic squad, likely the same duo as U20's. 

The Olympic qualifiers will be hosted in New Zealand from 27 August to 9 September, according to the OFC calendar. Given the talent disparity between us and the rest of OFC is only somewhat mitigated due to the away climates, I can only see a home tournament being even more dominant than usual. If anything, the other teams would probably be the ones stifled by a cold, rainy August day, so could be even easier than an equal playing field.

It will also be impossible to find someone to replace them on such short notice before the end of August. Of course who will know the players better than the current coaching staff of Bazeley and Temple? It's probably safest to keep them for the tournament isn't it? I mean, if they beat Cook Islands 12-0 at North Harbour in front of a crowd of a couple parents how can you get rid of them? Then it'll of course only be fair for those successful coaches to take the Olympics too. 

Hahaha I needed a good laugh after the last few games NZ played. Although it was very interesting to hear what the Nigeria coach had to say "we had a plan, we executed it and it worked" something our coaches could learn from.

coochiee

But why not give the U22/23s coaching role to the new AWs coach as well. That's assuming it won't be Bazeley.

AWs will just be playing friendlies until late 2024. A number of AWs like Matt Garbett, Stamenic plus 3 over age players will all be available for the Paris Olympics (July-August 2024). Gives the AWs coach the chance to test their mettle in a proper competitive tourney with all the pressures that come with that. With no Confeds Cup, is the only real prep tourney the AWs & coaching staff will have before 2026 WC. Hay did both roles, and the Tokyo campaign was important in his prep up to the CR playoff game.

You can have Bazeley & Figueira along as assistants, with their intel on the various players.

Of course that all assumes NZF appoint a new AWs coach before August & that it won't be Baze.

Yes, makes sense but not something NZF are known for. Was the role not mean't to be finalised by now? 

Quarterfinals. Two more games tomorrow.
Israel from memory so nearly out in the pool stages, with the big upset.

Israel U20  3 - 2  Brazil U20
Colombia U20  1 - 3  Italy U20

coochiee

siac

JAVIER16

well  even though the keeper , herdman,  hughes  surman were ok,  I ALSO liked linder and the number 3  is very good going forward but not so good defending,  reminds me of DENIS IRWIN  supyk,  the nz player was conchie

i hope 5-6 at least from this squad in the senior squad

my pick
sims 
surman 
hughes 
supyk
conchie
herdman 

are ready 

Most of those guys don't even have a minute of senior football at a reasonable club level... at a minimum someone should need to pove themselves in A League quality or better to be considered for the mens national team.

Did you watch the USA game? Sims had a shocker... He wouldn't be in top several keepers we have.

Mostly agree. None of them deserve to be in AWs yet. Surman likely the closed given lack of CB depth. Sims did have a shocker but he’s better than that. Promising keeper

And thanks for the Herdman update from our Canadian correspondent 

they are ready I know my football.  remember JAVIER MASCHERANO never played pro football only under age nat team and debuted in the nat team before in his club  river plate.   good enough you are old enough,, those 6 I got impressed  mckay was good as holding too, and the lefty wallace and garbett showed glimpses

Uruguay bundle out the Americans.
Korea Republic U20  1 - 0  Nigeria U20
United States U20  0 - 2  Uruguay U20

Semi matchups
Uruguay U20 vs Israel U20 
Italy U20 vs Korea Republic U20

JAVIER16

coochiee

siac

JAVIER16

well  even though the keeper , herdman,  hughes  surman were ok,  I ALSO liked linder and the number 3  is very good going forward but not so good defending,  reminds me of DENIS IRWIN  supyk,  the nz player was conchie

i hope 5-6 at least from this squad in the senior squad

my pick
sims 
surman 
hughes 
supyk
conchie
herdman 

are ready 

Most of those guys don't even have a minute of senior football at a reasonable club level... at a minimum someone should need to pove themselves in A League quality or better to be considered for the mens national team.

Did you watch the USA game? Sims had a shocker... He wouldn't be in top several keepers we have.

Mostly agree. None of them deserve to be in AWs yet. Surman likely the closed given lack of CB depth. Sims did have a shocker but he’s better than that. Promising keeper

And thanks for the Herdman update from our Canadian correspondent 

they are ready I know my football.  remember JAVIER MASCHERANO never played pro football only under age nat team and debuted in the nat team before in his club  river plate.   good enough you are old enough,, those 6 I got impressed  mckay was good as holding too, and the lefty wallace and garbett showed glimpses

Comparing Mascherano to our footballers ffs come off it.

Is there something lost in translation in the continued use of " I know my football"?

Little brother Uruguay through to the final in big brother Argentina. Will be up against the Italians.


Semis
Uruguay U20   1 - 0   Israel U20
Italy U20   2 - 1   Korea Republic U20

Uruguay are top dogs. For a small country they get alot right with their football development. And they Israelis in their first appearance and who caused the tourney to be moved to Argentina (which probably was a bit of a negative for us) got the bronze.

3rd place
Israel U20  3 - 1  Korea Republic U20

Final
Uruguay U20  1 - 0  Italy U20

Uruguay only lost to England and and beat Israel 1-0 (who I thought were very good considering this was the first time they have qualified). Uruguay also won a few games by 1-0 so many of the teams were on a par or unlucky, like Israel.

coochiee

Uruguay are top dogs. For a small country they get alot right with their football development. And they Israelis in their first appearance and who caused the tourney to be moved to Argentina (which probably was a bit of a negative for us) got the bronze.

3rd place
Israel U20  3 - 1  Korea Republic U20

Final
Uruguay U20  1 - 0  Italy U20

Israel did not cause the tournament to be moved. Indonesia (or perhaps more specifically the Bali governor) caused the tournament to be moved.

I thought the overturning of the Italian red card was not a good decision.

ClubOranje

coochiee

Uruguay are top dogs. For a small country they get alot right with their football development. And they Israelis in their first appearance and who caused the tourney to be moved to Argentina (which probably was a bit of a negative for us) got the bronze.

3rd place
Israel U20  3 - 1  Korea Republic U20

Final
Uruguay U20  1 - 0  Italy U20

Israel did not cause the tournament to be moved. Indonesia (or perhaps more specifically the Bali governor) caused the tournament to be moved.

it was down to a religious thing right that would meant the Israeli's couldnt come to Malaysia?

ClubOranje

I thought the overturning of the Italian red card was not a good decision.

I must have missed this, was it not part of the FIFA rules or did they appeal?

theprof

ClubOranje

coochiee

Uruguay are top dogs. For a small country they get alot right with their football development. And they Israelis in their first appearance and who caused the tourney to be moved to Argentina (which probably was a bit of a negative for us) got the bronze.

3rd place
Israel U20  3 - 1  Korea Republic U20

Final
Uruguay U20  1 - 0  Italy U20

Israel did not cause the tournament to be moved. Indonesia (or perhaps more specifically the Bali governor) caused the tournament to be moved.

it was down to a religious thing right that would meant the Israeli's couldnt come to Malaysia?

It was not religious, it was political.

Khalil Media

theprof

ClubOranje

coochiee

Uruguay are top dogs. For a small country they get alot right with their football development. And they Israelis in their first appearance and who caused the tourney to be moved to Argentina (which probably was a bit of a negative for us) got the bronze.

3rd place
Israel U20  3 - 1  Korea Republic U20

Final
Uruguay U20  1 - 0  Italy U20

Israel did not cause the tournament to be moved. Indonesia (or perhaps more specifically the Bali governor) caused the tournament to be moved.

it was down to a religious thing right that would meant the Israeli's couldnt come to Malaysia?

It was not religious, it was political.

Bali is in Indonesia. Yes the Governor of Bali (where the Israelis were scheduled to mostly be based) took exception to Israel, coming to his beautiful island. FIFA said too bad so sad, and striped Indonesia of it's hosting rights. Irony being that Bali is mostly still Hindi, though the Indonesian Govt has encouraged alot of mainland Muslin Indonesians to move there in recent times, and there is definitely a divide between Bali born Hindus & the increasing immigrant Muslim popn.

So semantics, CO is correct the Bali Governor, was the cause of tourney being moved to Argy - which would have helped the little brother neighbouring Uruguayans.

Anyway well done to them. There's been alot written about Iceland's football success off a small popn, excellent coaching standards etc. I'd like to know more way Uruguay (which I visited for 2 weeks in 2018), and it's 3.5M people consistently push above their weight football wise.

coochiee

Khalil Media

theprof

ClubOranje

coochiee

Uruguay are top dogs. For a small country they get alot right with their football development. And they Israelis in their first appearance and who caused the tourney to be moved to Argentina (which probably was a bit of a negative for us) got the bronze.

3rd place
Israel U20  3 - 1  Korea Republic U20

Final
Uruguay U20  1 - 0  Italy U20

Israel did not cause the tournament to be moved. Indonesia (or perhaps more specifically the Bali governor) caused the tournament to be moved.

it was down to a religious thing right that would meant the Israeli's couldnt come to Malaysia?

It was not religious, it was political.

Bali is in Indonesia. Yes the Governor of Bali (where the Israelis were scheduled to mostly be based) took exception to Israel, coming to his beautiful island. FIFA said too bad so sad, and striped Indonesia of it's hosting rights. Irony being that Bali is mostly still Hindi, though the Indonesian Govt has encouraged alot of mainland Muslin Indonesians to move there in recent times, and there is definitely a divide between Bali born Hindus & the increasing immigrant Muslim popn.

So semantics, CO is correct the Bali Governor, was the cause of tourney being moved to Argy - which would have helped the little brother neighbouring Uruguayans.

Anyway well done to them. There's been alot written about Iceland's football success off a small popn, excellent coaching standards etc. I'd like to know more way Uruguay (which I visited for 2 weeks in 2018), and it's 3.5M people consistently push above their weight football wise.

Tifo Football (a YouTube channel) have a 5 or 6 minute clip on why Uruguay punches above its weight. It’s well worth a watch.

In fact most of the clips Tifo Football release are considered and interesting.

loyalgunner

coochiee

Khalil Media

theprof

ClubOranje

coochiee

Uruguay are top dogs. For a small country they get alot right with their football development. And they Israelis in their first appearance and who caused the tourney to be moved to Argentina (which probably was a bit of a negative for us) got the bronze.

3rd place
Israel U20  3 - 1  Korea Republic U20

Final
Uruguay U20  1 - 0  Italy U20

Israel did not cause the tournament to be moved. Indonesia (or perhaps more specifically the Bali governor) caused the tournament to be moved.

it was down to a religious thing right that would meant the Israeli's couldnt come to Malaysia?

It was not religious, it was political.

Bali is in Indonesia. Yes the Governor of Bali (where the Israelis were scheduled to mostly be based) took exception to Israel, coming to his beautiful island. FIFA said too bad so sad, and striped Indonesia of it's hosting rights. Irony being that Bali is mostly still Hindi, though the Indonesian Govt has encouraged alot of mainland Muslin Indonesians to move there in recent times, and there is definitely a divide between Bali born Hindus & the increasing immigrant Muslim popn.

So semantics, CO is correct the Bali Governor, was the cause of tourney being moved to Argy - which would have helped the little brother neighbouring Uruguayans.

Anyway well done to them. There's been alot written about Iceland's football success off a small popn, excellent coaching standards etc. I'd like to know more way Uruguay (which I visited for 2 weeks in 2018), and it's 3.5M people consistently push above their weight football wise.

Tifo Football (a YouTube channel) have a 5 or 6 minute clip on why Uruguay punches above its weight. It’s well worth a watch.

In fact most of the clips Tifo Football release are considered and interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwJChKR-TuY

Out of interest I see that Futsal was founded in Uruguay, in the 1930s.

Football Ted

ClubOranje

I thought the overturning of the Italian red card was not a good decision.

I must have missed this, was it not part of the FIFA rules or did they appeal?

Around 79(ish) minutes , ref gave a red card for an incident, VAR asked ref to review screen. Ref overturned his original decision. In my opinion his first decision was a correct one.

Not sure what you are asking regards FIFA rules or appeal. 
FIFA rules allow for a red card to be given for serious foul play. FIFA rules allow for the ref to overturn his own decision if he thinks he got it wrong originally. 
FIFA rules do not allow for on field appeal by players or team officials- although in practice players and team officials make appeals to the officials, which the officials should ignore as they are guided to make their own decisions without external influence.

ClubOranje

Football Ted

ClubOranje

I thought the overturning of the Italian red card was not a good decision.

I must have missed this, was it not part of the FIFA rules or did they appeal?

Around 79(ish) minutes , ref gave a red card for an incident, VAR asked ref to review screen. Ref overturned his original decision. In my opinion his first decision was a correct one.

Not sure what you are asking regards FIFA rules or appeal. 
FIFA rules allow for a red card to be given for serious foul play. FIFA rules allow for the ref to overturn his own decision if he thinks he got it wrong originally. 
FIFA rules do not allow for on field appeal by players or team officials- although in practice players and team officials make appeals to the officials, which the officials should ignore as they are guided to make their own decisions without external influence.

Thanks, never saw the game and assumed the RED was from a previous game. Some decisions can always be questioned but maybe the refs were instructed to try make a game of it and not send anyone off, unless they have to.

coochiee

Khalil Media

theprof

ClubOranje

coochiee

Uruguay are top dogs. For a small country they get alot right with their football development. And they Israelis in their first appearance and who caused the tourney to be moved to Argentina (which probably was a bit of a negative for us) got the bronze.

3rd place
Israel U20  3 - 1  Korea Republic U20

Final
Uruguay U20  1 - 0  Italy U20

Israel did not cause the tournament to be moved. Indonesia (or perhaps more specifically the Bali governor) caused the tournament to be moved.

it was down to a religious thing right that would meant the Israeli's couldnt come to Malaysia?

It was not religious, it was political.

Bali is in Indonesia. Yes the Governor of Bali (where the Israelis were scheduled to mostly be based) took exception to Israel, coming to his beautiful island. FIFA said too bad so sad, and striped Indonesia of it's hosting rights. Irony being that Bali is mostly still Hindi, though the Indonesian Govt has encouraged alot of mainland Muslin Indonesians to move there in recent times, and there is definitely a divide between Bali born Hindus & the increasing immigrant Muslim popn.

So semantics, CO is correct the Bali Governor, was the cause of tourney being moved to Argy - which would have helped the little brother neighbouring Uruguayans.

Anyway well done to them. There's been alot written about Iceland's football success off a small popn, excellent coaching standards etc. I'd like to know more way Uruguay (which I visited for 2 weeks in 2018), and it's 3.5M people consistently push above their weight football wise.

Yes, I also read the articles about Iceland. Good coaches, facilities etc which is the way forward. NZ need to learn to play possession football and not just defend or good teams will just split us apart as we saw just happen. You can defend for say 40-60 mins but concentration and fatigue sets in, then they own you. The more football academies playing this way the better we will become and not just the kick and chase approach or even counter attack approach.
 

even when we defend we don't really 'defend', we just get numbers back and hope to clog the space.

Interesting bit of history which relates to us playing Argentina at u-20 level.
Australia hosted the 1981 FIFA u-20 World Cup so us Kiwis, as the top remaining Oceania side went through to the final round of qualifying.
Australia were permitted to take part in the Oceania qualifying tournament as a guest but weren't eligible to win it.
NZ beat them comfortably anyway.
Interesting debate over whether our youth national sides have actually progressed much.
Because that NZ u-20 side did bloody well against a great Argentina side that supplied some players who went on to win the World Cup in 1986.
Maradona had only recently been an Argentina u-20 rep at that time.
So it was a great generation for them.
First round qualifying tournie in Fiji:
(two groups of four teams)
Oceania U-20 Youth Cup 1980

Fiji, Dec 7-13, 1980. 
Group 1 
7-12 Fiji 2-2 New Zealand 
9-12 New Zealand 5-0 Papua New Guinea 
11-12 Fiji 4-2 Papua New Guinea 
1. New Zealand 2 1 1 0 7- 2 3  (Played, W. D, L, GF, GA, Pts)
2. Fiji 2 1 1 0 6- 4 3
3. Papua NG 2 0 0 2 2- 9 0 
Group 2 
6-12 Australia 1-0 Tahiti 
9-12 Tahiti 1-2 New Caledonia 
11-12 New Caledonia 1-6 Australia 
1.Australia 2 2 0 0 7- 1 4 
2.New Caledonia 2 1 0 1 3- 7 2 
3.Tahiti 2 0 0 2 1- 3 0 
3rd/4th place play-off 13-12 Fiji 4-3 New Caledonia 
Final 13-12 New Zealand 2-0 Australia 
New Zealand won the the Oceania Youth Cup and the right to represent Oceania in the next preliminary round of World Youth Cup qualifiers in South America in February 1981. Australia, as the hosts, qualified for the World Youth Cup automatically.
                                       ___________________________________

Our team's results were surprisingly good, considering that that the final round of qualification was played in Buenos Aires and that the NZ side was completely composed of amateur kids from NZ clubs facing well-known Argentinians from their country's major clubs. NZ had only played a handful of u-20 internationals in our country's history, our youth national team set-up being very haphazard before the 1980's.
We beat Israel in one game and drew the other.
And against Argentina only lost the first match 1-0 and the second 3-0.
It was a very good NZ side containing a teenage Wynton Rufer and Malcolm Dunford (who went on to become one of NZ's best centre-backs of the 1980's and a regular senior All White) amongst other future senior internationals.
I remember it well because I was at Nelson College with the NZ u-20 goalie John Brydon who was two years above me (his future full All White brother Paul was one year above me).
John was my House Prefect in the archaic old English system in place at Nelson College (you were assigned a "House" or school group according to which part of town you lived in), so he was in charge of regular "House Meetings" where school business was discussed.
Coming from a family of dedicated Nelson United football supporters I would talk football with John and so was always in his good books!
And of course John was largely absent from school in 1980 because he was off representing NZ.
John had become Nelson's regular national league goalie at that time after the encumbant broke his leg.

Intercontinental Qualification Buenos Aires, Argentina, Mar 18-29, 1981
18- 3 New Zealand 0-0 Israel
20- 3 Argentina 1-0 Israel
22- 3 Argentina 1-0 New Zealand
25- 3 Israel 1-2 New Zealand
27- 3 Argentina 3-0 New Zealand
29- 3 Argentina 2-0 Israel
1. Argentina 4 4 0 0 7- 0 8
2. New Zealand 4 1 1 2 2- 5 3
3. Israel 4 0 1 3 1- 5 1
Argentina qualified for WYC 1981 in Australia.