New Zealand U-23s - Quali Whites

There's a guy who's wearing an FBI hoodie reading this somewhere...

what if, now here me out, we get Vanuatu a signed copy of and personal screening of United Passions with Sam Neil?

There are some. Paperwork checking being done now.

Breaking News

NZ to withdraw from International Competition

White writing on white background is very hard to read...

This is interesting:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/nz-teams/70397772/oly-whites-defender-deklan-wynne-ineligible--fifa-eligibility-expert

I think Masty may have raised this issue before. Would be interesting to know what the understanding between FIFA and IOC is on this point.

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To get a passport, licence, buy a house, play o35s, you have to follow the rules. Most governing bodies of rules are relatively cut and dry in respect of this (I'll leave FIFA aside for one moment and focus on NZ) You talk about having to have everything sorted with O35s and kids and school (of which I am not 100% on in knowledge) but the immediate standout obvious criteria's are O35, kids and school. Seems straight forward.

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We then have NZF whom hang Waikato on a technicality (and its a correct technicality) on the recently completed ASBP. Hawkes Bay had one the season prior I think in fielding Edge. It seems when it counts, NZF know their rules and follow them 'despite the good faith in which they were played under'

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When we take that all into account of the above about process, rules and regulations etc, we now have clear cut evidence that Wynne did not have an NZ passport prior to his international debut. When you look at that at face value, the word negligent is actually implying that they know what's going on and wilfully choose to ignore it. I'm not so sure I can be generous to label them as being negligent because that implies that had to have some clue in the 1st place.

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People can complain about OFC process and FIFA eligibility but the bare faced facts are that NZF signed a document in 2013 (under the completely useless and inept McKavanagh) that says 'we will comply with this', FIFA eligibility criteria has not changed in the last 7 years (2008) and now we seek to re-read these as we feel? Forgive me for showing any care factor for NZF but as an organisation, if this was a 'business' and not a 'sports organisation' there would be a massive clear out for gross incompetence bordering on criminal negligence. On what planet does NZF actually feel they have a leg to stand on here?

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Victims - Wynne: Feel for the kid and he now has to apply for exemption and do it today. If he does not get it, he has to choose a professional career over being an AW. He would still need to satisfy the 5 year criteria I assume.

Martin (to a degree) He has been in the job 16 months. Some of this stuff will have happened while he was still getting his ears wet but he is having to front and apologise for operational matters that he would not have any control over. Technical committee do this stuff but the best way to stay employed is to publically embarrass your organisation and CEO. Someone has to go for this because even with Pacific Games aside, Wynne played a full international without an NZ passport. There is absolutely no confusion in that whatsoever.

Blame: Hudson - how much did he know? Surely when you pick a player for a full international and does not present a passport to anyone in the management team (and lets say Pickstock or even the person booking the flight tickets), the coach would be told 'hey we have an issue here and you wont be able to play him'. As it is, Wynne is nothing special as a LB in my opinion (and was not good at all in the U20s) so why is he being raved about as a player and then a risk being taken on him as a player? Its backfired spectacularly.

Technical department: Its assumed that FDJ is the head of this and Pickstock is a minion. I think Pickstock, if he is smart, will resign to save face because he has to have a hand in this and if FDJ does not get the boot, then he needs to consider resigning. Its part of these guys jobs from an operational aspect to ensure that players are eligible to play for NZ. As it is, a few more have been highlighted (Musa, Roux, Adams, Burfoot) and that does not include anyone in any age group teams so it shows they are pretty fudgeing awful at doing their job where the basic fundamental articles are laid out in front of them. I get you can potentially interpret article 6 in one light but FIFA have never used article 6 for the intentional that NZF seem to want to.

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Its just disheartening that as an organisation, we go from the highs of WC2010 and the 'we'll capitalise on this' to so many stuff ups with Honiara, posting successive losses disguised as profits, the build up to the games against Mexico by playing reserve club sides, to the pay to play, now to this. WHEN WILL IT JUST FUCKING STOP?!?!?

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NZF need to apologise, tell the lawyers to put down their tools and attempt to.... ah fudge it, they will keep stuffing up so who am I kidding.

Im just guessing here but Wynne could have been a citizen but simply not applied for a NZ passport! Surely if that was the case it wouldn't matter that he played for the All Whites without a passport as long as he was a national!

Would NZF be capable of managing a Cap 9 side?

A Stanley: Wynne could certainly take the pitch without a passport - but how do you travel through Asia with the All Whites without one?

Passports are generally recognised as being the measure they use to test eligibility hence probably why no one raised the issue at U20s. What was it that Ifill wrote about having a passport lost/stolen so could not play for Barbados? (vague)

If you don't have one, you can't play (although it seems somehow you can) but before he got on the plane, he would have had to have passed on the details of his South African passport to someone at NZF. That alone would/should send up smoke signals.....

I can't be arsed doing that properly so I'm thinking of applying for the CEO job at NZF.

Can someone remind me if Wynne retained his SA citizenship upon being granted NZ one. If I recall it has to be requested of SA authorities before the new citizenship is applied for otherwise the SA citizenship lapses (used to be the same with Australian citizenship up till 2001).

If he has not, then he is a NZ citizen only. If he has a SA passport and travelled with it for qualifiers, he is not a NZ citizen (just a permanent resident visa stamped in the SA passport - for the purpose of eligibility to play for one's country defined by passport, not by residency).

I wonder if the international legal minds of Shieff Angland had this in their draft submissions before this article.

Fifa's regs for the 2016 Olympics are on their website (under Organisation thread). 73 pages of them.

Just to clear this up - you need to have a passport to present to the match commissioner in any official international match.

I'm guessing you probably don't need one for international friendlies (as there'd be no official match commissioners for those games).

Yes, 52.3 of the regulations doesn't look good for NZF.

Any disputes arising from the application of these Regulations shall be settled

by the jurisdiction of FIFA and, if subsequently necessary, by the Court of

Arbitration for Sport (CAS) in Lausanne, Switzerland.

Agree. "... protests concerning the eligibility of players ... are dealt with by the Fifa Disciplinary Committee."

No mention of any IOC input there.

13 Eligibility of players 

1. Each association taking part in the Tournaments shall ensure the following when selecting its representative team(s): 

a) all players shall hold the nationality of its country and be subject to its jurisdiction; 

b) all players shall be eligible for selection in accordance with the FIFA Statutes, the Regulations Governing the Application of the FIFA Statutes and other relevant FIFA rules and regulations.

I guess what the Swiss guy was arguing that if this were to go to Court of Arbitration for Sport, NZF could argue that Wynne was eligible under the Olympic charter, so shouldn't have been disqualified from participating in the qualifying tournament.

But given that NZF had agreed to participate under the FIFA Rio 2016 regulations, it'd be difficult to make a compelling argument on that front.

Right there.

Reliable sauces say this is entirely what happened.

Back on the passport issue, I wonder if you could show a citizenship certificate to the match commissioner instead? At the end of the day, don't the rules say that you need to "hold the nationality" of the country you wish to represent (as well as, of course, being eligible to represent it)?

If that's the case, a passport might not be the only way to prove your citizenship...

and you must be 23 to play for another country because...

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-33595804

No, it has to be the passport (because of the photo I would assume). Also, the passport isn't just to demonstrate the citizenship, but also the age (especially for age-group tournaments), and the identity - so that the match commissioner is satisfied that Joe Smith is the Joe Smith, not a Joe Smith.

I may have misrepresented this.

The sauces suggest they pushed their luck, not that it was misinterpreted.

Seems you don't have to be a citizen to play international friendlies... this guy played for the Swiss U16s 4 times before gettting his Swiss passport!

You could still have NZ citizenship but travel on a South African passport. thereby  covering all bases with regard ID etc

Genuine question - would she not have written (or at least contributed to most of the content in) the report?

No. You have to have the passport of the national team you're representing to present to the match commissioner before the game, it's a standard requirement of all official international competitions.

For players with dual citizenship, what passport they travel on is entirely up to them, but that's not the point here.

EG, in the first paragraph, how old is that rule?    Just interested.