New Zealand U-23s - Quali Whites

I don't know. It's been around since the 1990s at least.

And that is why the rules are in place - read the above and weep.

Yes to protect Africans, like Wynne, from being exploited.

I beg to differ - it's a mindset, an attitude.  And NZF have it.  This has already been well covered in this thread.

Cheers, because earlier than that,  half the AW's that played  did not have NZ passports.

I'm not disagreeing with you on that.  I was pointing out (again, as so many others have already) that this debacle is symptomatic of NZF's attitude.  Taken to it's extremity the hunger to win at all costs, and accordingly pull in players from anywhere in the world that might help you achieve that, may result in exploitation.  And there are victims in this particular war.  Ask any NZ u-23 player that was eligible for the tournament how they feel right now.  Are they victims of NZF's approach?  I'd hanker to guess some feel that they are.

who exactly have been exploited...?

Everyone was there because they wanted to be. They may have been let down by NZF, but certainly not exploited. 

I feel exploited 

I Feel Love - Donna Summer

If FIFA rules don't apply then we could have just picked the ball up and thrown it in the net. Though I'm not sure on what basis the referee would be able to award points. Anarchy!

I was talking extremes and I said MAY have been exploited in relation to the African kids. Tegal I wonder why you can't read a simple post correctly and I wonder did you even read the bbc article?

Ok so I've missed 1024 posts.
I understand that we were disqualified from the u23, NZF appealed and the appeal was overturned.

What else happened in the 1024 posts?

Maybe we could try getting off on the fact that the Vanuatu protest notice spelt both Deklan Wynne's first name and last name incorrectly.

Our response should've been along the lines of "In regard to the letter of protest from Vanuatu regarding the ineligibility of '#3 Decklan Wynn', we have checked our team-sheet and did not have anyone of that name playing in the #3 shirt or any other shirt.  As such we are unable to provide any further information, and believe the protest has no standing and should be dismissed forthwith"

Basically nothing else happened.

You forgot to add "nya nya na-nya nya" at the end and a poking out tongue smiley.

Leaving aside the debate about legal issues for a moment...all 1000+ posts. LOL

If this all had been reversed and NZ had lost to Vanuatu but NZ was aware that Vanuatu had fielded an eligible player and NZ had objected and Vanuatu had been kicked out.....what would have the fans/media/public reaction been in NZ?. I'll bet there would have been a certain degree of " if we can't win on the field then leave it at that". NZF would have been criticised for their actions. I think our culture is that to win on a technicality is unsporting after you have lost on the field.

Because to me there is something unsporting in what Vanuatu did. Yes, it appears we did field an eligible player, yes, NZF are dumb arses for giving someone an opportunity to object. But ineligible player status could have been pointed out before the tournament started. In some ways the NZ team walked into a trap. I don't believe that this was an isolated incidence where a Vanuatu official was going through the NZ team sheet and decided to check on Wynne's eligibility and then hold that info until after the game. I think there was some co-ordination to take NZ out of the tournament.

This whole episode has left a sour taste in my mouth. I am super pissed off at NZF for being so stupid. But I also have strong negative feelings towards Vanuatu football. Legally they were probably right but morally they are lowlife IMO. I can't wait until the World Cup qualifications. The All Whites vs Vanuatu in NZ will have quite an edge to it. Some of the kiwi boys will be wanting to make a statement in that match.

Is the full press conference with Andy Martin available anywhere? I've only seen a brief 20second segment.

Don't agree at all. Good on Vanuatu for objecting and succeeding. Sounds like they were totally right.

Yeah, and from the perspective of the Islands, NZ is the big team, the regional powerhouse. Of course they'd be pissed that even with all the advantages we already have we still felt the need to field an ineligible player against them. 

To be honest, we're lucky they didn't question the eligibility of our new star players for the tournament, Final Nessie and Crosstiano Runaldo.

Side bar in the newspaper today says that NZF have until August 4th to appeal.

austin10 - I suppose you were pissed off that these blokes got disqualified as well.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/2994623/Disabled-...

Admitted that is taking it to the extreme, but to be angry at Vanuatu for something we did (and may have known about prior but tried to get away with it) is just ridiculous.  If they played by the rules, why shouldn't we.

Exactly. And when you add NZF's holier than thou remarks re crap conditions in PNG for qualifying, plus having other ineligible squad members in Burfoot (& Adams? & Roux? & Prelevic?), we've been made to look like incompetent, sore-losing tossers.

He's definitely eligible, but he's also definitely (probably definitely more) ineligible.

And there's a few people in the sandpit still. Some are eating the sand, others throwing it at each other.

Every couple of days someone new arrives making the same points that have already been raised.

My favourite 'ineligible' campaigner is 'El Grapadura', favourite 'eligible' 'LionLegs'.

Anything else you need?

I think we should all just accept the fact we are out of the Olympics and move on. This thread could go for another 200 pages of people repeating laws trying to justify how eligible he is. At the end of the day the blame is squarely at the feet for NZF for not doing a thorough job when checking players. They are clearly trying to blame everyone but themselves. 

Hang on..... we might not be out of the Olympics..... if we win our appeal....... cue 1,000 more posts......

Personally - while gutted at the Olympic exit - I am not so much interested in the Wynne eligibility discussion. I am interested in the NZF competency discussion and what we as stakeholders can do about it. 

I do not see the the NZF fault as a one-off slip-up ("sorry, we had best intentions, but you know, s*it happens"). I see it as a sign of deeper problem with competence, accountability and responsibility. Problem, of which - a bit like an iceberg - largest part does not surface.

Agreed, but how to solve it?

I'm not sure where you would start or how you would identify what the actual issues are. I'm also not sure if what happened in Vanuatu is a big enough trigger to change the whole organisation.

Maybe NZF make it difficult for themselves by having a number of "foreign" players playing for the different national teams. By doing so it means they have to be on top of paper work and understanding the laws.

That's not too hard, in itself, to rectify though is it? If [as some people say it is] was as simple as getting a clearance from FIFA for Wynne and others - then the way that is improved is by next time getting clearance from FIFA. People can quote incident after incident of where NZF have stuffed up or are incompetent but does it all add up to there being a need to do a complete overhaul?

An interesting discussion might be around the culture within the organisation. There have been a lot of personnel changes at the top over the years so probably many cultural shifts as well. What do people think is the underlying problem [if there really is one].?

The interesting thing is have others slipped under the radar too? There seems to be so many kids that moved to NZ at a young age that are in the current age group teams that definitely haven't lived here for 5 years AFTER the age of 18. If they moved to NZ at a young age was it with parents that were already born here? 

It's a strange one. What makes you more of a New Zealander, moving here from 18 months old and spending the next 17 years living in New Zealand but having no blood line linked to the country, or having a grandmother that was born in NZ but you've never lived here?

FIFA or someone could argue that because New Zealand is build upon migrants, a true "NZ bloodline" itself would be Maori, which would make most players in every age group ineligible if it was based on that. Maybe its a sign of how desperate we are for talented players which would come back to development. We should be able to develop enough good players where this isn't an issue. 

I have heard we have over 40 players in the various age groups who are caught up in this. We could lose a lot of our elite level across both men and women's game  if NZF don't sort this out soon, it will have a major impact going forward. Most of our age group teams over the last few years have kids who were born in other countries but grew up here and became citizens along the way. It has never been an issue until this debacle.

Moriori

I hate myself. 

Too many oggies. Don't keep their heads up. Lack of squad depth. Crap playing away from home.