New Zealand U-23s - Quali Whites

your  last comment would indicate that you don't mind taking instructions from dumb ass client for frivolous cases then Napier?

In your 40 years (lol)

Get back on your NZ football bandwagon and watch it fall into the ravine whilst some little kid pays for it.

Why don't NZF just fess up and admit they made a huge huge mistake and move on. This appeal is frivolous. The De Vries case shows them that its  cut and dried.....they got a FIFA ruling on that. How can they suggest that Wynne is eligible? To me the appeal is a huge waste of money...the only people who will Wynne out of this will be the lawyers who gave NZF some dubious legal advise in the first place.

Its starting to get real embarrassing now for NZF. I think they are continuing with the appeal so they can say after they lose" well, we made our case, which we thought was legitimate, but they disagreed with our assessment" That way it fudges the issue.

However NZF were dead wrong to select Wynne...he was not eligible. How they can't understand that is beyond me.

Omnishambles.

Oh. My. Lord. 

We already knew the answer to the question that we got the answer wrong to.

Also big ups to Andrew Gourdie for a good piece of investigative journalism. Talk to past staff who have done this before, seek corroboration from FIFA, ask NZF for comment. Comprehensive. We need more like it.

The eligibility case is frivilous, the procedure case is not. But getting in on a technicality is not the Kiwi way. So I agree we should drop the case.

It's like doing an open book test, but copying the answer from the wrong book.

If the De Vries case is exactly the same and they received a ruling from FIFA on that - then [no argument] NZF are a pack of muppets for  choosing to soldier on with that knowledge and not seek exemption or a pack of incompetents for not knowing they had been down this road before.

Whether or not the regulations are fair or whatever the interpretation taken is [by others] NZF should of known they were on shaky ground in playing Wynne.

This might seem like a 180 degree turn on my part, but I had given NZF the benefit of the doubt to this point [and still would like to see if this information re De Vries is really accurate before totally writing them off] and also believe the regulations are unclear enough, prima facie, in their writing and they either need to be legally challenged or FIFA has to rewrite them clearly. I have no problem in following the rules, but the rules need to be quite clear.

FIFA is a corrupt, bloated and arrogant organisation, NZF needs a good kick up the arse. I'd certainly like to see some sort of review done on the organisation [by someone like Sport NZ] to determine why these important stuff ups have happened across a period of time when we have had different people in the top seat. Is there still a layer of incompetent staff below them that have remained over this time? Are they paying peanuts and getting monkeys? All sorts of questions. for fudge sakes NZF, get this stuff right...... 

I bet you Andy Martin is a bear with a sore tooth around the office today after seeing Glyn the donut stitch his organisation up in an unequivocal manner.

I wonder what the NZF executive committee are thinking now having seen this? I bet Glyns had calls today on where that file is and I also bet he finds a poo in a brown paper bag in his mailbox tomorrow poststamped Albany...

Have they had a 100% staff turn over? Surely people in the organisation would know that this has happened before, even if its the long serving PA or a front line administrator or whatever that saw this and thought "Hey thats similar to that other thing that I typed up with Ryan De Vries?" And surely the De Vries thing was handled with consultation to their lawyers and they would have thought the same thing.

It's really really embarassing, and the only solution is to scrap the organisation and start again.

Something needs to be done for sure, but there might be a lot of reasons for why this happened. The organisation I work for is a bureaucracy and, at times, various members spend time reinventing the wheel when the exact same set of circumstances has happened before and solutions found or handled in a particularly helpful way - but that information is not recorded properly or recorded in a way that makes for easy retrieval. The point I'm trying to make is that although some stuff ups occur, in other areas we do great work. The challenge is always to minimise the fudge ups and some organisational structures and IT systems aren't particularly helpful in that regard.

Easy to burn someone at the stake, but if the organisation isn't well enough equipped to prevent these things, why should the staff get torn a new one. Jut look at your own work situation, if you are not working for yourself and are working for a reasonably large organisation, I can bet there will be obstacles within that prevent you from doing the very best you can or would want to do. 

To be fair, the file might be difficult to locate.

...like in an Eastlight Folder labelled 'Player Eligibility'...

Yes, they have. As far as I know the only person still at NZF who was there in 2011 is Sue Batty.

I suspect this would be their first reaction. Anger rather than shame. Shoot the messenger. I also suspect Gourdie will be back on the NZF media blacklist.

Well then we can cut them some slack, I'm sure they aren't a large organisation and that sort of staff turn over would be crippling.

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Well then we can cut them some slack, I'm sure they aren't a large organisation and that sort of staff turn over would be crippling.

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Im not sure how many people on this forum have had any administrative or even coaching job within NZF or the federations but part of the job is quite hard to deal with. Everyone hates you, doesnt trust you or thinks you are incompetent as a default position no matter if you have worked in one of those organisations for a day or for 10 years.  It breeds a seige mentality which isnt healthy. Its been like that for as long as i can remember around the scene since the early 80's.

I wouldnt mind betting that will have some sort of impact on staff turnover. It will be the same in 30 years time, everyone will distrust, hate or sneer at NZF or any of the Fed admins and wider staff as a default position.  In my experience Football in NZ more than any other sport is riddled with malcontents and miserable people on the fringes who only ever make noise when they are complaining.  Of course NZF screw up  but my point is that the default position of everyone on the fringes is negative and encourages an unhealthy seige mentality.

All this crap about staff turnover is a cop out by NZ football.

If it occurred to their predecessors then there is no excuse why it shouldnt cross their minds (particularly if any of those predessors were pushed out as not being up to the mark)

I can't help thinking the recent references to high staff turnover is from the present administration essentially saying don't fire our hopeless asses because then we will go through the same vicious cycle of turnover

Sack them. 

Is NZF using staff turnover as a copout or is it some of us wondering if it has an impact?.

One of the more cowardly and inherently sharkty things people do online is to ask or demand for people to be sacked. Its one of those nasty little mentalities that is knee jerk and mob rule in origin. 

True, but if I had made a mistake which cost my company hundreds of thousands of dollars I would be out the door. 

I expect you would be as well.

Do they have a Macas in Napier now? Pleased you have a job there anyway

Today's thread summary:

austin10 - thankyou for the pun

AlfStamp, Ryan (not me...) - thankyou for the perspective and understanding

Napier Phoenix / Auckl...hang on. I see the problem here...let me just double-check I've remembered that correctly...

Yep. It's classic forum close-name-conflict.

Anyway. The de Vries comparisons. I wonder if they tried to age-group-cap him.  I don't think they did.

From what I've read, it sounds like he moved here later than Wynne. Maybe even at 18. But I don't know for a fact. I seem to recall a comment about having been here 5 years, around about the time he turned 23.

So it seems like in his case FIFA may have been like "that's EXACTLY how we saw this rule working out". Or, 'correct application' of it, if you like.

The bit I feel sorry for Wynne/NZF (and think the rule is stupid) is that Wynne has been here 5 years too (again, I think...) but because that 5-year period doesn't end in him being 23 he can't play international football.

I'm in no way interested in getting into an argument about breaking the rules or their application or how regulations interact with each other - but in a practical sense, for somebody that hadn't dealt with regulations (or interpretation/s thereof)...this situation would seem very very trivial.

Yeah but its not your place to ask for someone to lose their job.

BTW just for some sort of perspective and this is an imaginary scenario and completely made up but based on something I do know of at NZF.

There is a staff member at NZF who has been there for a very long time and that person in the past has handled a lot of player liason, dealing with passports, travel, work permit issues, international transfers etc etc.  If you were to ask any AW of the last maybe 20 years or more you will find to a player every single one loves this particular staff member.  A loyal servant to the game and to NZF.  If that person was the one who made the clerical error leading to this problem would you still be applying  company mistake solution you mention?. 

Now I havent been anywhere near NZF in the last 4-5 years and I have no idea if that staff member is still involved in those things so what I have written above is only as an example and in no way fact or even assumed. 

The point here is that in the 40 years I have been around the scene that there has always been a view that NZF is run by morons. That would be 40 years of incompetence. If that is true then its really a sad and sorry indictment on the game here in NZ as a whole.

My own opinion here is that NZF have made a very big mistake here (partly mitigated by the muddy rules in play, but they should have been more thorough). 

I heard on Glenn Larmer's  Sports Radio slot this morning a claim from Evan Charlton  a journalist out of Sydney that the FIFA Ethics committee is now carrying out a more wide ranging inquiry into ineligible players at U17, U20, Womens' and   All Whites level. This includes one player who did not have a  NZ passport.

Hmm, are we actually going to have a team?

De Vries is my guess. "I've been here five years now and I feel like a New Zealander." - quoted on NZF website 2014 prior to NZ selection. 'NZ Call Would Be a Dream.'

Plus he's still labelled South African on current ACFC squad list.

NB Now/if he's signed with Newcastle Jets wonder how long before he says he feels like he's an Okker.

I feel like we don't know what we're doing.

I don't know what the truth is, but have seen a couple of people positng on twitter saying that there are rumours FIFA are 'circling' around allegations of large numbers of ineligible players for NZF...

If this is the case good lord. But as I say no idea of the truth of this as I have not been able to find someone reputable posting it yet.

If only we'd voted for Sepp!

Haha that was my first thought when I saw it as well.

I reckon this is a case of someone adding 2 and 2 together and coming up with 22.

To me this all reeks of an incredibly stupid self-inflicted wound.

We were incompetent well before that vote.

But according to our CEO we play with a straight bat and go about business a certain way and eveyrone else is wrong.

That would not surprise me at all, as I have said not found a reputable poster yet.

Well Gourdie has now written about it...

http://www.3news.co.nz/sport/fifa-questioning-wide...

But again his info is the same tweet I saw