I do think the fijian coach has a point about it though, im
sure it is in the rules....though FIFA have already made their
ruling, and arent exactly likely to change it to a forfeit
match...so we're safe (i hope).
NZ v Fiji called off by FIFA
I did mention the fact we could have to forfeit the match to a mate
earlier today...scared the sh*t out of him!
Not sure about the rules for forfeiting, I'd imagine there's no
genuine basis for such a move.
My 2 cents.
Football and politics do mix. It is unfair to everyone
if they didn't. We boycotted South Africa rightly back in the
80's in a stance against aparthied. We are now taking a
stance against anyone associated to the military who overthrew a
government. It is right and just.
So for all you people saying that we have done the wrong thing
(and even that you will vote National, one of the most racist and
corrupt parties around with their friends the religious right) then
you have taken a selfish and simple view on the matter. Let's
not play with those who carry out illegal practices in the
world. So yes, goodbye Fiji, North Korea, and the US.
Football is an international game with international rules set by
an international body, FIFA. One fundamental rule is the you pick
your own team. Your team and tge rules are not set by the opposing
team and especially not your opponent's government.
I'd have no problem with NZ denying a visa if it goes against
immigration rules...HOWEVER the case against their keeper did
not comply with the rules. Winnie screwed up, and right now
I'd love to see him buried up to the neck in Oriental Bay so our
boys can use his head as kicking practice! 
Just consider for a minute what the reaction in NZ would have been
if France had denied entry visas to Sitiveni Sivivatu and Joe
Rokocoko.
There is so much hypocrisy and arbitrary line drawing around this debate it is almost pointless trying to rationalise it.
The only thing for certain is that this has done far more damage to NZ interests than it has to Fiji's and that can't possibly be the point of sanctions.
There is so much hypocrisy and arbitrary line drawing around this debate it is almost pointless trying to rationalise it.
The only thing for certain is that this has done far more damage to NZ interests than it has to Fiji's and that can't possibly be the point of sanctions.
The only thing for certain is that this has done far more damage to NZ interests than it has to Fiji's and that can't possibly be the point of sanctions.
That is very true, don't know why I didnt think of it like
that]
Tegal2007-10-12 20:26:09
So it is political interference when NZ applies its
immigration rules, but not when FIFA tells us to change them
especially for a Fijian soccer player?
�
Fiji kicked out our high commissioner. They are run by a
military dictator. Some people there live under a curfew, and now
have to retire at 55 and take a mandatory salary cut.
�
FIFA Fairplay or blatter bs?
�
I'm sure Fijians have an opinion on this, if they were allowed
to...
�
sorry to go all political, but thats my 2 cents
What Bainimarama is trying to do is good, we are only getting half of it from the media. I don't know why Winston Peters is so against him. As I said earlier, Bainimarama's rival is a racist, and I'm sure Peters wouldn't like that either.
So it is political interference when NZ applies its
immigration rules, but not when FIFA tells us to change them
especially for a Fijian soccer player?
Fiji kicked out our high commissioner. They are run by a
military dictator. Some people there live under a curfew, and now
have to retire at 55 and take a mandatory salary cut.
FIFA Fairplay or blatter bs?
I'm sure Fijians have an opinion on this, if they were allowed
to...
sorry to go all political, but thats my 2 cents
What Bainimarama is trying to do is good, we are only getting half of it from the media. I don't know why Winston Peters is so against him. As I said earlier, Bainimarama's rival is a racist, and I'm sure Peters wouldn't like that either.
Haha ACTUALLY...he would like it...Winston Peters is a racist
himself...remember his stance on asians etc?
Politically, this is great for Bainimarama's domestic politics. He'll now stir up a whole lot of anti-NZ sentiment based on this - Fiji stands up against the bully NZers etc etc etc.
So, totally counter-productive in terms of our foreign
relations strategy towards Fiji.
I'm now compiling a list of hypocrisies committed in this
fiasco. List is vast. will be back after had dinner.
FIFA makes warring nations play each other, so that for 90 minutes
we set aside war & politics. That's why it is important that
you chose your own team and the government of your rival is not
allowed to determine the shape of your team or the outcome of the
game.
Are you listening Aunty Helen, you don't set the rules of an international game. What you said tonight was pathetic. I don't want to win a game where there is a question about the Fijian team being nobbled.
Are you listening Aunty Helen, you don't set the rules of an international game. What you said tonight was pathetic. I don't want to win a game where there is a question about the Fijian team being nobbled.
Off topic, but Tegal, Peters is not racist against Asians, doesn't
he just want the government to have greater control of the number
of them coming into NZ? (open to be corrected, just what I heard).
My 2 cents.
Football and politics do mix. It is unfair to everyone
if they didn't. We boycotted South Africa rightly back in the
80's in a stance against aparthied. We are now taking a
stance against anyone associated to the military who overthrew a
government. It is right and just.
So for all you people saying that we have done the wrong thing
(and even that you will vote National, one of the most racist and
corrupt parties around with their friends the religious right) then
you have taken a selfish and simple view on the matter. Let's
not play with those who carry out illegal practices in the
world. So yes, goodbye Fiji, North Korea, and the US.
It depends how you consistently you apply these wonderful
principles.
What about the Chinese Army rugby team who we welcomed with
such open arms?
What about tours to Pakistan, a country governed by a military
regime?
Having a selectively "ethical" foreign policy, in which you
only apply your ethical principles upon wee countries and the
sports that dont lose you too many votes is a pretty flimsy moral
platform.
Marius Lacatus2007-10-12 20:47:23
I agree. If only did apply an ethical foreign policy to all
visiting teams, it would be great. But as you know rugby
rules them all. However, if Banarama's son happened to be in the
team, or Saddam's or someother dirty bastard, then I would hope our
government would make a stand. And in this case, even though
it does seem a little distant (like inlaws) we have made a stand
and good on them.
Off topic, but Tegal, Peters is not racist against Asians, doesn't
he just want the government to have greater control of the number
of them coming into NZ? (open to be corrected, just what I
heard).
"We do not need more kebab makers!"
The collective shame we felt in Tauranga at the time...
FIFA play games with how many countries politics ?
Examples please.
It is a condition of FIFA affiliation that a country's FA is
free from political involvement. FIFA only step in when politics
interfere with football. Poland have been in trouble because the
Polish FA has been taken over by the Polish government after
match-fixing scandals - why wouldn't FIFA step in? Poland should
know better, as Greece came close to the same thing when their
government decided to interfere with their FA in 2006.
How come Fifa didn't intervene when the Australian Govt stepped in 4 or 5 years ago? seems like double standards.
Everyone will have an opinion on the merits or otherwise. However what would (will?) be interesting is if the government applies the same yardstick for the world cup rugby. My understanding is a number of Fijian rugby players have at least as strong (?) a connection to the army so, if Bainimarama remains in power (not beyond the realms of possibilities) will the NZ government apply the same princiiples and exclude those from entering NZ and hence placing the Rugby World cup at risk?
NZ has every right to forbid who ever they so choose from entering
the country. Fifa has every right to ensure teams can pick their
best team without interfernce from governments and if this cant be
done to change the games venue.
Ok, Here's a question for you.
Where on a Visa application does it ask "are you about to
marry someone whos father is in the army".
It doesnt ask of that of course. That means that Fiji leaked
that information. Why?
Fiji also stated they were happy for the game to proceed (not
Fifa as winnie has said) and for the dispute to be sorted
afterwards. The only way that would be sorted afterwards was for
fifa to award the game to Fiji and punish NZ.
Cunning plan from Fiji but it now hasnt worked.
Just consider for a minute what the reaction in NZ would have been
if France had denied entry visas to Sitiveni Sivivatu and Joe
Rokocoko.
There is so much hypocrisy and arbitrary line drawing around this debate it is almost pointless trying to rationalise it.
The only thing for certain is that this has done far more damage to NZ interests than it has to Fiji's and that can't possibly be the point of sanctions.
There is so much hypocrisy and arbitrary line drawing around this debate it is almost pointless trying to rationalise it.
The only thing for certain is that this has done far more damage to NZ interests than it has to Fiji's and that can't possibly be the point of sanctions.
Actually, I'd like to know Peter's & Mallard's opinions on
Fijian born or 2nd generation players playing for the All Blacks?
Consistency comes to my mind -- ie, where is it??
My 2 cents.
Football and politics do mix. It is unfair to everyone
if they didn't. We boycotted South Africa rightly back in the
80's in a stance against aparthied. We are now taking a
stance against anyone associated to the military who overthrew a
government. It is right and just.
So for all you people saying that we have done the wrong thing
(and even that you will vote National, one of the most racist and
corrupt parties around with their friends the religious right) then
you have taken a selfish and simple view on the matter. Let's
not play with those who carry out illegal practices in the
world. So yes, goodbye Fiji, North Korea, and the US.
How refreshing to find the world is all black and white with
no shades of grey. National voter = religious right, racist
and corrupt. (Have voted for them so what does that make me,
also voted for Labour, United, ACT - obviously confused.)
Agreeing with FIFA = selfish and simple. Yeah,
right
These are simplistic views. Not to say you're not right
in some ways, but it is far more complicated than you give the
issue credit for. These issues have nuances which cannot be
answered by gross generalisations and stereotypes (what is this
"religious right" you speak of).
The whole politics and sport issue is very complicated and not
easily answered. It's been a tense topic here since
1981. FIFA was absolutely on the ball against
apartheid, South Africa was not allowed to compete internationally
even though football was a mixed sport at the time (although
largely a black sport).
My main problem is this;
Will the likes of Killen, Vicelich, Boyens and others be able
to make the trip back over for the re-sceduled fixture? Has the NZ
govt gifted Fiji a game against a weaker NZ side in the future by
doing this?
the fijian all blacks are a ridiculous comparison, simply they
travel on a new zealand passport and are new zealand citizens. the
point someone made before about us being able to influence fiji is
absolutely correct, we have no influence over china but we can and
should make a stand against fiji. bainimarama is a deadset desspot
and we should do everything we can to get him out of power.
the government stuffed up here yes but as someone said
previously the whole thing was done in an ad hoc manner and fifa
arent completely blameless either. its unfortunate and im well
f**ked off. does the fifa window extend till wednesday? ie will we
hav our top team on the field in fiji which could turn into now
quite a tricky little away trip
IS anyone ringing RadioSport about this?
How refreshing to find the world is all black and white with
no shades of grey. National voter = religious right, racist
and corrupt. (Have voted for them so what does that make me,
also voted for Labour, United, ACT - obviously confused.)
Agreeing with FIFA = selfish and simple. Yeah,
right
These are simplistic views. Not to say you're not right
in some ways, but it is far more complicated than you give the
issue credit for. These issues have nuances which cannot be
answered by gross generalisations and stereotypes (what is this
"religious right" you speak of).
The whole politics and sport issue is very complicated and not
easily answered. It's been a tense topic here since
1981. FIFA was absolutely on the ball against
apartheid, South Africa was not allowed to compete internationally
even though football was a mixed sport at the time (although
largely a black sport).
Hey I'm not trying to say it is a simple matter, I realise
there is plenty innit, just saying that people who like to think
that we can just play on without rules and morals are simple.
Lets also be aware that FIFA ain't all it is cracked up to be in
the fairness stakes.
Oh, and as for the religious right- you can't get more right
and corrupt as the hollow men in the Nats and Brethren.
IS anyone ringing RadioSport about this?
Yeah.
Some dude rang up and had a massive rant about how the NZ
Government are just afraid that Rugby will have to take a back seat
to Football. Said that he felt the NZ Government thought they could
do what they wanted and didn't care about NZ Football in the
slightest or FIFA for that matter.
Half the blimmin Sevens team are in the military -so dont even
start on double standards - Winnie is a ******
The whole frickin problem is that sanctions don't affect the people
in power. The only people being hurt here are the ordinary Fijian
citizens (and NZ football supporters 
). What
the NZ government is doing is a toothless and spineless waste
of time. Sporting sanctions were not responsible for the end of
apartheid is South Africa and they will not end the situation in
Fiji.
). What
the NZ government is doing is a toothless and spineless waste
of time. Sporting sanctions were not responsible for the end of
apartheid is South Africa and they will not end the situation in
Fiji.
Especially as rugby seems to be exempt since old Bananarama is
a rugby nut (he's probably laughing his head off about this whole
football fiasco).
It seems like everyone but those in power in Fiji agree that
the current military rulers are an illegal government so why not
give him a taste of his own medicine. The NZ government should be
lobbying the UN to pass a resolution so we can send in the SAS and
yank him out.
Game over, end of story!
If FIFA hadn't brought the fiji game forward by one month only a few weeks out from the first game, then none of this would have happened. I am sure with the extra time this visa issue could have been sorted out. Especially if the NZ govt new that FIFA were going to not allow the game to go ahead.
How can they muck around with fixtures like that. We were
supposed to play Vanuatu on the 13th of October.
This whole thing has been a joke and absolute chaos since the
start. What gives us the right not to play in the Pacific games
either. We are ranked 6th in the FIFA rankings of Oceana after
all.
I think we are going to hear a lot more about this whole
thing. I am really worried about how FIFA are going to handle this
now.
Solution: Quit Oceania and join Asia. They're much more organised.
Hey, I just want to see Killen and the lads kick a ball. Can't we
see a training session or exhibition match? I am a typically
starved footie follower, desparate to see some quality.
My main problem is this;
Will the likes of Killen, Vicelich, Boyens and others be able
to make the trip back over for the re-scheduled fixture? Has the NZ
govt gifted Fiji a game against a weaker NZ side in the future by
doing this?
Hopefully the game will be re-scheduled in a FIFA window next year. I don`t imagine FNZ would be happy to play the game at a neutral venue without their top players being available.FIFA have made a stand that the best players had to be available for Fiji. So this should also apply when the game is eventually played.
A good time to play it would be in the european and a league off season.So may june, july, next year.That time would be a problem for the mls players.
The other question i have is does the neutral venue have to be in Oceania? Come on Seatts whats the answer?
Seatts said Australia would be the preferred location.
Surely there is no urgency forthis game - we dont play New
Caledonia for another year!
the fijian all blacks are a ridiculous comparison
It wasn't meant to be a comparison. It was illustrating the point that this whole issue revolves around drawing arbitrary lines in the sand to achieve vague, unmeasurable political outcomes such as "putting pressure on Fiji".
So the question was what if France had decided to "put pressure on Fiji" by denying entry to anyone born in Fiji regardless of their current citizenship? Why would that have made any more or less sense than our Government's current position? And do you think our government would have supported France's right to do that and applauded them for also trying to put "pressure on Fiji". Like f**k they would have.
The only people feeling any real pressure in this situation are the NZ and Fijian football communities. So unless we seriously believe that the general population of Fiji are so pissed off about this issue that they are now going to rise up and overview their unelected government then the whole situation is a big f**king waste of time and an international embarassment to NZ.
If we wait long enough w'll be able to play in NZ quite
possibly....probly around 7s time..
Off topic, but Tegal, Peters is not racist against Asians, doesn't
he just want the government to have greater control of the number
of them coming into NZ? (open to be corrected, just what I
heard).
Staying off topic with you to ask the question why Peters only
wants these controls for Asians and not Europeans? It is this
aspect that opens him up to accusations of racism.
Seatts said Australia would be the preferred location.
Surely there is no urgency forthis game - we dont play New
Caledonia for another year!
If they play in Australia, then this whole affair is a
complete mockery - bc supposedly NZ and Australia have the same
sanctions against Fiji (or if we dont, why not?)
If FIFA hadn't brought the fiji game forward by one month only a few weeks out from the first game, then none of this would have happened. I am sure with the extra time this visa issue could have been sorted out. Especially if the NZ govt new that FIFA were going to not allow the game to go ahead.
How can they muck around with fixtures like that. We were
supposed to play Vanuatu on the 13th of October.
I suspect you're right that with the original scheduling the
problems could have been resolved in time. However, the fixture
change was made in consultation with all parties.
I actually feel sorry for the Netball World Championships starting
in 28 days - obviously the entire Fiji team and squad won't be
allowed in to the country, which will spoil the whole competition a
little bit
We dont know yet who will be allowed visas to come here for the
netball, certainly Bainamaramas wife wont be if she is in the
squad. It will be up to Fiji Netball body to pick a squad that
complies, they know the criteria. The rest of the comp will go
ahead here, whether they come or not.
The govt has a policy, ok. So long as they are systematic in applying it, especially with the Sevens at Wellington,
The govt has a policy, ok. So long as they are systematic in applying it, especially with the Sevens at Wellington,
if any fijians with military connections (whatever that actually
means) get visas for the netball or sevens I think us YF will have
to go apesh*t
we can't forget this!
we can't forget this!