I don't think we can blame Hay for this one Very poor from Woud Who's the backup keeper?
Woud has had a shocker. It happens to young keepers, and I'm hoping he doesn't lose his confidence and gets past this. However I still blame Hay for destroying the kiwi age group team that played the best football I've ever seen NZ play. Despite the errors from the keeper, we just haven't looked that good. A Cacace wonder goal and counter attacking width play while spending most of the game defending isn't NZ making progress, its the same old shark.
That was absolutely the best football I have ever seen a Kiwi team play. Losing Buckingham was a massive loss.
Totally agree Buckingham was great but the old boys club at NZF thought they could do better. Glad Buckingham is doing well at City shoving it right up NZF.
Woud, poor guy, but that was awful. That last one, why did Woud not reach out his left arm? He almost falls onto his left arm, then has to reach with his far arm (right) over, which just is awkward. Was it the deflection?
Any consolidation for him to move forward is that maybe the second goal was on Stanger. Also Woud has made some pretty impressive saves these last two games.
But yeah, tonight we lost because of Woud. Hopefully he recovers. Who would you play in goal for the next match, Searle??
Woud made some big saves that kept us in it, hopefullybounces back. I'm happy that I feel so gutted to lose a game at this level, didn't think I'd every feel like it.
very very disappointing - 3 horrific errors - and the open goal they missed when woud didn't parry the ball to the side. he was incredible at the u20s so the talent is there but the application today was sadly lacking.
Ingham was clueless - Hay has to play Elliot in the 3rd game.
Hay also needs to figure out if we are going to try and defend and counter or play like the u20's did. His team selection is geared up towards the latter but they are playing the former..
if we didn't have a leading premier league striker in our ranks, i'm sure hay would play a 5-5-0 formation
i'm pretty sure i said this while we were winning, but i hated the way we were defending (tactically)
i agree with what djtim says. apart from woud being young. i have no sympathy for him. his body language was all wrong and he allowed his game to completely fall to peices. a good professional would never allow that to happen.
Woud, poor guy, but that was awful. That last one, why did Woud not reach out his left arm? He almost falls onto his left arm, then has to reach with his far arm (right) over, which just is awkward. Was it the deflection?
Any consolidation for him to move forward is that maybe the second goal was on Stanger. Also Woud has made some pretty impressive saves these last two games.
But yeah, tonight we lost because of Woud. Hopefully he recovers. Who would you play in goal for the next match, Searle??
You'd play Woud again, because he's young and based off his career so far (not that I know this 100%) tonight's performance was probably a one off so you back him as a coach. Also you don't want to destroy the confidence of a young keeper, and also because you don't want a green keeper coming in for a must win match. For me thats simple man management.
I hate this style of play, I thought we had moved past this crap. Boring shark hoofball with an outright defensive mindset from the get go. Play with 4 at the back and push an extra midfielder in. Right out of the Ricki Herbert play book.
I think we need Stensness in midfield. Although his shark pass led to the last goal he is very strong on the ball and offers a lot of control, that we just did not have centrally. Our last line of defence was not getting much protection from the mids, who lost it a lot. Bell and Lewis were ordinary. I can't figure out what role McCowatt is supposed to be playing. He didn't fit at all. Ingham must lose his starting spot surely. I'm confused with the setup we are playing. Confused.
if we didn't have a leading premier league striker in our ranks, i'm sure hay would play a 5-5-0 formation
i'm pretty sure i said this while we were winning, but i hated the way we were defending (tactically)
i agree with what djtim says. apart from woud being young. i have no sympathy for him. his body language was all wrong and he allowed his game to completely fall to peices. a good professional would never allow that to happen.
Yeah it wasn't a good look, you could see he lost it after the second goal. But I still think the best thing you can probably do in this situation is to back him not to repeat the same thing, its one hell of a learning experience.
Woud made some big saves that kept us in it, hopefullybounces back. I'm happy that I feel so gutted to lose a game at this level, didn't think I'd every feel like it.
To be fair those two early blunders also came from a defenders error. The first one he was a step too far back ready for dealing with a cross or something and the second one it seemed like he was waiting for the defender to pass back and when the defender slowed he went forward to try and kick it.
Yea 3 goalie fudge ups but 2 it was a bit of a defensive team fudge up on the whole .
I hate this style of play, I thought we had moved past this crap. Boring shark hoofball with an outright defensive mindset from the get go. Play with 4 at the back and push an extra midfielder in. Right out of the Ricki Herbert play book.
I think we need Stensness in midfield. Although his shark pass led to the last goal he is very strong on the ball and offers a lot of control, that we just did not have centrally. Our last line of defence was not getting much protection from the mids, who lost it a lot. Bell and Lewis were ordinary. I can't figure out what role McCowatt is supposed to be playing. He didn't fit at all. Ingham must lose his starting spot surely. I'm confused with the setup we are playing. Confused.
Agree with all that apart from Ingham, don't think he did anything wrong and did a shark load more running up and down the flank (while keeping control of the ball) than Cacace did. He certainly wasn't one of the players outside of Woud that didn't have a great night. Lewis would probably be better with Stensness beside him, doing the graft.
des laid down a modern playing style, which he and the team implemented really well. like alf, it's the most i'd enjoyed watching a new zealand team play. neil emblen's all whites and oly whites also deserve a mention in this regard.
des is huge on team culture. he created a positive winning environment with the under 20s which carried on to the under23s in qualifying.
Woud, poor guy, but that was awful. That last one, why did Woud not reach out his left arm? He almost falls onto his left arm, then has to reach with his far arm (right) over, which just is awkward. Was it the deflection?
Any consolidation for him to move forward is that maybe the second goal was on Stanger. Also Woud has made some pretty impressive saves these last two games.
But yeah, tonight we lost because of Woud. Hopefully he recovers. Who would you play in goal for the next match, Searle??
You'd play Woud again, because he's young and based off his career so far (not that I know this 100%) tonight's performance was probably a one off so you back him as a coach. Also you don't want to destroy the confidence of a young keeper, and also because you don't want a green keeper coming in for a must win match. For me thats simple man management.
And made an excellent save in a one on one too. Reid in front of him he probably goes down as having had a good game, with a few nerves. And we win or at least draw.
if we didn't have a leading premier league striker in our ranks, i'm sure hay would play a 5-5-0 formation
i'm pretty sure i said this while we were winning, but i hated the way we were defending (tactically)
i agree with what djtim says. apart from woud being young. i have no sympathy for him. his body language was all wrong and he allowed his game to completely fall to peices. a good professional would never allow that to happen.
Yeah it wasn't a good look, you could see he lost it after the second goal. But I still think the best thing you can probably do in this situation is to back him not to repeat the same thing, its one hell of a learning experience.
He had clearly lost it before the second goal. Like the 55th minute when off a cross he just parried it in front of him but they missed (in addition to the first half debacle).
To be fair those two early blunders also came from a defenders error. The first one he was a step too far back ready for dealing with a cross or something and the second one it seemed like he was waiting for the defender to pass back and when the defender slowed he went forward to try and kick it.
Yea 3 goalie fudge ups but 2 it was a bit of a defensive team fudge up on the whole .
And Libby being casual out wide. Wood intercepts, back to Libby with a bad touch that lets the Honduran guy in and he is weak in the challenge, looks to the ref and doesn’t chase down his man. They’ve got possession with a couple of minutes to go. Was unimpressed with that. Still should have been regulation for Woud, but he isn’t the only one on the hook.
Also worth noting that in the 2nd warmup game vs Australia it sounds like he made a blunder than was the cause of their goal (I haven't seen the footage but based on post match comments from Hay). Something doesn't seen right with him...
Looks like for the senior team (when we ever play) Sail has gone from number 3 to number 1 in the space of 6 months.
Any news on Winston? I can't see us beating Romania without him.
Surely if there is any doubt, the centre back just has to deal with it, not think about touching it then hoping Woud will get to it. FFS, defenders have to make decisions.
Surely if there is any doubt, the centre back just has to deal with it, not think about touching it then hoping Woud will get to it. FFS, defenders have to make decisions.
True, though Woud should be the loud boss back there and be ordering the defenders around.
Poor communication, ball was in no mans land and needed a tap from the defender to run to Woud. Looked like both thought the other was going to deal to it.
Okay I think Woud had a shocker, and questions need to be asked of his performance. But I think this is on Danny Hay. When you go up 2-1, you want to go on the front foot and try to get one more to kill off the game.. yet, for some reason we want to hold onto our lead and invite Honduras foward, which they did. Honduras are not Korea, they play with flair and are not patient, sitting back and letting them back was going to fail.. At around 60 minutes we were getting tired. The goal was coming, just upsetting the way it did.. so frustrating
I don't think we can blame Hay for this one Very poor from Woud Who's the backup keeper?
Woud has had a shocker. It happens to young keepers, and I'm hoping he doesn't lose his confidence and gets past this. However I still blame Hay for destroying the kiwi age group team that played the best football I've ever seen NZ play. Despite the errors from the keeper, we just haven't looked that good. A Cacace wonder goal and counter attacking width play while spending most of the game defending isn't NZ making progress, its the same old shark.
That was absolutely the best football I have ever seen a Kiwi team play. Losing Buckingham was a massive loss.
It showed for the first time that NZ players aren't just physical lumps, that we actually have the technical skill to play attractive, passing football. I mean we thumped basically the same Honduras squad 5 - 1 two years ago. I may be mistaken, but we didnt lose Des right? Hay basically kicked him to the curb?
Choosing no senior GK and taking two injury prone CB’s instead really is biting us in the ass. Sail/Marinovic would have kept a clean sheet tonight. It doesn’t matter how good the goals we score are when the bloke between the posts is that poor.
Choosing no senior GK and taking two injury prone CB’s instead really is biting us in the ass. Sail/Marinovic would have kept a clean sheet tonight. It doesn’t matter how good the goals we score are when the bloke between the posts is that poor.
To be fair to the selectors, Woud is playing at a level similar to the A-League. he wasn't seen as a weakness in the squad. I can't remember anyone suggesting we use a goal keeper as an overage player until this match. The biggest loss, by far, for NZ was Thomas (which was injury related not selection).
Choosing no senior GK and taking two injury prone CB’s instead really is biting us in the ass. Sail/Marinovic would have kept a clean sheet tonight. It doesn’t matter how good the goals we score are when the bloke between the posts is that poor.
There was criticism when the team was picked, that Hay had picked too many CBs. Can't win. Plus Boxall has never been injury prone, he's hardly missed a game for Minnesota in the 3-4 years he's been there.
And yes Sail must now be the AWs number 1 keeper. He has that precious thing for a GK at the moment, confidence. Not sure Marinovic has ever really exhibited lots of that. Tzanev another to watch this Euro season if he nails down the stopper spot at the Dons. Tough learning experience for Woud.
Woud let the team down badly, however Romania are beatable and Korea are doing a fine job exploiting them. Heads up guys 1 game left we are still in this!
Woud let the team down badly, however Romania are beatable and Korea are doing a fine job exploiting them. Heads up guys 1 game left we are still in this!
Yes, Korea thump 10 man Romania 4-0. Romanian RWB sent off at 45 mins (score 1-0).
After the Koreans smashed Romania, I think that means:
If we beat Romania we qualify, regardless of what happens in SK vs Honduras.
If we lose to Romania, we miss out regardless of what happens in SK vs Honduras
If we draw vs Romania, - we qualify if SK beats Honduras (SK finish on 6, we finish on 4, Romania on 4 (but we have better GD), H on 3. - we qualify if Honduras beats SK (Hondurus finishes on 6, we finish on 4, Romania on 4 (but we have better GD), SK on 3) - We miss out if SK vs Honduras is a draw All teams finish on 4, SK through on GD, Honduras same GD as us but they get through as they beat us head to head)
After the Koreans smashed Romania, I think that means:
If we beat Romania we qualify, regardless of what happens in SK vs Honduras.
If we lose to Romania, we miss out regardless of what happens in SK vs Honduras
If we draw vs Romania, - we qualify if SK beats Honduras (SK finish on 6, we finish on 4, Romania on 4 (but we have better GD), H on 3. - we qualify if Honduras beats SK (Hondurus finishes on 6, we finish on 4, Romania on 4 (but we have better GD), SK on 3) - We miss out if SK vs Honduras is a draw All teams finish on 4, SK through on GD, Honduras same GD as us but they get through as they beat us head to head)
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Believe that after GD, goals scored comes into effect, then fair play.
Right now, our GD (0), goals scored (3) and fair play stats (three yellows) are the exact same as Honduras’ - so if, for example, both NZ-Romania and SK-Honduras finish 1-1, it’d come down to which team out of NZ or Honduras got the least yellow cards on that final matchday. If NZ-Romania finishes 1-1 and SK-Honduras finishes 0-0, we’d go through on goals scored.
Woud, poor guy, but that was awful. That last one, why did Woud not reach out his left arm? He almost falls onto his left arm, then has to reach with his far arm (right) over, which just is awkward. Was it the deflection?
Any consolidation for him to move forward is that maybe the second goal was on Stanger. Also Woud has made some pretty impressive saves these last two games.
But yeah, tonight we lost because of Woud. Hopefully he recovers. Who would you play in goal for the next match, Searle??
You'd play Woud again, because he's young and based off his career so far (not that I know this 100%) tonight's performance was probably a one off so you back him as a coach. Also you don't want to destroy the confidence of a young keeper, and also because you don't want a green keeper coming in for a must win match. For me thats simple man management.
Hay - What am embarrassment the guy is. He said on Nationwide TV that he'd like to attack and play attacking football. Which would be nice. I personally don't mind losing if we gave a good account of ourselves and never give up. But thus far, even though on paper it says 4-3-3. It really has been a 5-4-1. Very attacking with a 5 man defence and a 4 man midfield. The man has been around the block long long enough. He is uttering bullshark.
As a former Central Defender he has a tendency to play defensive dour football with the occasional long ball via route one and that's pretty much plan A,B & C. The guy has some talented players at his call. A shame they are not played in their more natural positions. Waine up front with Wood for example.
Buckingham should never have been given the flick but sadly the NZFA who like to change their name as often as their empty gin glasses have gotten it so wrong so often. The players are fighting a losing battle to people whom like Hay, should be ashamed and embarrassed by how it is unfolding. Trying to nick a goal on the break and then cram the defence. This is 2021 not 1980's Leeds. That we managed 2 goals was encouraging and the team really have should finished them off but they didn't and paid the price.
Surely if there is any doubt, the centre back just has to deal with it, not think about touching it then hoping Woud will get to it. FFS, defenders have to make decisions.
Woud made the decision for him by steaming off his line. If he comes he needs to commit. Better option probably was to hold and receive a back pass. He got himself stuck in between. Rest him for next game IMO
Woud let the team down badly, however Romania are beatable and Korea are doing a fine job exploiting them. Heads up guys 1 game left we are still in this!
Yes, Korea thump 10 man Romania 4-0. Romanian RWB sent off at 45 mins (score 1-0).
3 errors = 3 goals, mostly blame can be place on Woud, but Hay has to take responsibility for the way we played. He plays a 3-5-2 on attack which becomes a very horrid 5-4-1 in defense. In theory it should be tough to get passed, and it was for some time, but then the errors occurred, a missed tackle, a poor pass or two (three) added tot he keeping howlers and we looked weak at the back which given the personal we have that should be a strength. We might beat Romania but it will be ugly.
I don't think we can blame Hay for this one Very poor from Woud Who's the backup keeper?
Woud has had a shocker. It happens to young keepers, and I'm hoping he doesn't lose his confidence and gets past this. However I still blame Hay for destroying the kiwi age group team that played the best football I've ever seen NZ play. Despite the errors from the keeper, we just haven't looked that good. A Cacace wonder goal and counter attacking width play while spending most of the game defending isn't NZ making progress, its the same old shark.
That was absolutely the best football I have ever seen a Kiwi team play. Losing Buckingham was a massive loss.
It showed for the first time that NZ players aren't just physical lumps, that we actually have the technical skill to play attractive, passing football. I mean we thumped basically the same Honduras squad 5 - 1 two years ago. I may be mistaken, but we didnt lose Des right? Hay basically kicked him to the curb?
It was 5-0 and simply put, "Yes"
It wasn’t really the same Honduras team, there’s only a handful of players from that squad in the Olympics, and that Honduras team was one of, if not, the worst teams to go to a World Cup, they literally lost a game 12-0. Also you can argue that Hay beat Korea and Australia when Des couldn’t, and Des inherited a team with several members of Hay’s national league winning squad, guys in the A League and managed the same exit as the last two Bazeley teams (RO16). Whether or not Hay should be the coach isn’t the point, he is so you make do with what you have.
The Des thing is also down to COVID and NZF not having money to extend his contract which ended in July last year, not to mention that with the senior team not playing since Nov 2019, and having an intercontinental playoff in less than a year, they couldn’t afford to not get the group together. A defensive low block worked against Korea, so fair enough keeping at it, and should’ve worked again, and it’s hardly unheard of in football, most past Italian teams have played a catenaccio and that’s not because of a lack of players. What goes down in the history books is the result not the performance.
With the Korea result, means that loss is less bad anyway, a win sees us through regardless, and with a draw in the Korea Honduras, provided we score more than Honduras we also go through. Romania struggled and didn’t manage a shot on target against Honduras, so they’re hardly unbeatable. It’ll be interesting to see if Woud still plays, you don’t make to where he is at his age without knowing what you’re doing, but he seemed indecisive and unconvincing. Lewis seemed a bit off, and Ingham wasn’t great again, but with that being said, the coaches have eyes on Elliot and he hasn’t played since the COVID restart, so maybe Ingham has looked better.
Hay - What am embarrassment the guy is. He said on Nationwide TV that he'd like to attack and play attacking football. Which would be nice. I personally don't mind losing if we gave a good account of ourselves and never give up. But thus far, even though on paper it says 4-3-3. It really has been a 5-4-1. Very attacking with a 5 man defence and a 4 man midfield. The man has been around the block long long enough. He is uttering bullshark.
As a former Central Defender he has a tendency to play defensive dour football with the occasional long ball via route one and that's pretty much plan A,B & C. The guy has some talented players at his call. A shame they are not played in their more natural positions. Waine up front with Wood for example.
Buckingham should never have been given the flick but sadly the NZFA who like to change their name as often as their empty gin glasses have gotten it so wrong so often. The players are fighting a losing battle to people whom like Hay, should be ashamed and embarrassed by how it is unfolding. Trying to nick a goal on the break and then cram the defence. This is 2021 not 1980's Leeds. That we managed 2 goals was encouraging and the team really have should finished them off but they didn't and paid the price.
Unfair I think, he has a team that he has coached to a victory against Asia’s top team and his team was beaten by 3 poor goals caused by a player/s. Surely no one doubts we would of won the Honduras game without 2 of those errors.
