Oly Whites vs Japan | Saturday 31st July | 9.00pm | Kashima, Japan

Poco

• Bell hands down.

I'm very impressed with Bell.   
He is not great technically, does not possess the athleticism to be fast or strong (lost the ball a lot in the first two games) but he reads a game well, positions himself well and works hard all the way to the last whistle.  He's a grafter and a great leader.

2ndBest

If we weren't colonised by the English we might have had a chance in the penalties. 

Now that's a longbow.

newzealandpower

Hold your head high boys. You've given them a real run for. Their money. They were always favourites and many believed the game would be over before the end of the first half. We matched then and had some really good chances to even win it. The future is bright and you've done NZ proud 

For me overall defence was superb, especially Woud, Reid and Stensness, attacking was quite ordinary.

First game I've had a chance to watch this campaign and I've never felt so good seeing a kiwi team lose.

So many positives to take out of this, some of the football we were playing in the middle at times is just in such stark contrast to the style we've become accustomed to.
Bell looks like a FIFA regen of Simon Elliott (not only because of the hair) and is the sort of player we've been missing for a long time.
Mccowatt looked excellent when he came on too, great energy in the middle and some neat touches, along with a very composed pen.

Can't help but feel like we'll have a real team come the 2026 world cup

Just watched the game. Thought defensively we were excellent and probably less so in attack and I think it’s an area of concern, only had 8 shots on target in 4 games.. anyway, the challenge will be now to continue this positive momentum going foward to next World Cup by having high quality friendly matches and getting this squad together as much as possible. The last thing we want to see is us playing Island nations where we win 10-0, only to lose to a rampant CONMBOL 5th place side because we only play 2 high quality games in 2 years and NZF goijg on and on about how great that South Korea result was like we bank on the Bahrain 2009 result.. everytkme NZ gets some sort of momentum and positive vibes we don’t do anything with it.. hopefully this changes this time around 

I'm hoping it's more games together, plus adding in Singh & Thomas that will go a long way to adding a greater cutting edge. But 3 clean sheets, at least gives a solid defensive base to work forward off. No more Honduras horror shows hopefully.

Edit - Games in cooler climes should also help. But team actually finished pretty strongly last night, in what looked very tough conditions. That was nice to see. I'm sure Wood will be telling Dyche his Burnley pre season is well & truely sorted!

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/olympics/125929685/olywhites-lose-tokyo-olympics-quarterfinal-against-japan-in-penalty-shootout

COnst

Poco

• Bell hands down.

I'm very impressed with Bell.   
He is not great technically, does not possess the athleticism to be fast or strong (lost the ball a lot in the first two games) but he reads a game well, positions himself well and works hard all the way to the last whistle.  He's a grafter and a great leader.

Bell is fantastic technically and is very strong for his size

Is 3-5-2 the future of the AW's?

Poco

Is 3-5-2 the future of the AW's?

I would be surprised if Stensness stays.  He was wasted at CB, especially when Reid was on board.  Meanwhile the midfield were often losing the battles in front of him and failing to put clean balls forward.
I think it would have been more productive to have Stanger at the back and Lewis on the bench.
But Hay, we got to the quarter finals.  This was good news and promotes the game.  Hopefully there are more good results to follow with this group.

mrsmiis

COnst

Poco

• Bell hands down.

I'm very impressed with Bell.   
He is not great technically, does not possess the athleticism to be fast or strong (lost the ball a lot in the first two games) but he reads a game well, positions himself well and works hard all the way to the last whistle.  He's a grafter and a great leader.

Bell is fantastic technically and is very strong for his size

I appreciate that he is a favoured one.  Overall I like his performance too.

Poco

Is 3-5-2 the future of the AW's?

I hope not.

Poco

Is 3-5-2 the future of the AW's?

honestly, if we play like that, why not! i'd like a reliable RB option before I'm fully comfortable, as though I like Elliot in that position he didn't have the best game yesterday.

Not sure why we'd play 352 when our best 45 of the tournament was when we were more 442

Loved the game, was at the pub with a bunch of mates, all of us super proud of the team and their efforts.

To lose on penalities to a team as good as Japan is a credit to the team and how hard they worked. I would have liked a little more on attack over the four games, but am stoked!

Stand Outs for Me (not including Wood/Reid): 

Stensness. Looked strong and confident on the ball. Not too many CB's doing stepovers that I can recall. Strong in the air as well. Surely he's too good for the A League.

Pinjanker: Not as good on the ball as Stensness, but has a good range of passing (great long ball switch) and was equally strong. Even if he doesn't get a move, surely he will get minutes this year for his club as they push for promotion.

Bell: Great workrate, some really nice touches and good reading of the game. I imagine that he would be even better, with better players to feed off around him.

Garbett: From nowhere to 2 starts and got better in the second game. Only 19, so heaps of potential upswing there. Nice movement, some good touches and read the game well.

Outside of that I thought everyone generally had moments, but not enough perhaps to get noticed. Champness showed the ability to beat a man which was good to see, but also was wasteful in possession for example. Just, some lovely 1-2s, but also went missing at time etc.

2ndBest

Not sure why we'd play 352 when our best 45 of the tournament was when we were more 442

2ndBest

Not sure why we'd play 352 when our best 45 of the tournament was when we were more 442

yeah, we're not going to play against OFC opposition in a 3-5-2. Against much stronger teams though, we've been given every reason to play this way again imo

mrsmiis

Poco

Is 3-5-2 the future of the AW's?

honestly, if we play like that, why not! i'd like a reliable RB option before I'm fully comfortable, as though I like Elliot in that position he didn't have the best game yesterday.

Get the feeling Hay is going to mix formations up depending on the opposition, plus maybe who he has available. And that's how a coach should earn his bread, by making changes when need identied. Reid started on one leg last night. Fully fit, Stensness may have been pushed forward at kick off.

I missed the first 20 mins of the game, when it sounds like Elliot was scratchy. From what I saw he was actually okay. I think that moment in the 2nd half when he lost his man, to give him a free header, he was just absolutely shagged by then. Hay gave him some sideline coaching post that, and Elliot just gave him a very tired looking thumbs up acknowledgement. Amusing to watch.

His match fitness would be right down. No games at all in Greece last season, and didn't start any of pre Olympic warmups. Running up the right wing in that heat & humidity, it's no wonder he was struggling 2nd half. Optimistic he will go well at the Nix, once is up to fitness.

Playing in World Cups, I think 3-5-2 is the best way to get the most out of our players and set up to frustrate the opposition. I can see our full strength lineup at Qatar being something like this:

Woud 
Cacace Boxall Reid Tuiloma Payne
Thomas Bell 
Singh 
Waine Wood

Swap out Waine for Barbarouses, Woud for Sail, Marinovic, or Payne for Fenton, Roux, Elliot, Ingham if you'd like. 

That's a pretty tough back 3 to get past, and allows Cacace more freedom to attack which will be crucial, also allowing Payne to get forward to swing in a cross. A spark of creativity with Singh sitting behind two strikers, which will take some attention of Wood and allow another target to aim at in the box. 

I get people think 5 at the back is inherently negative football but we have to be realistic, even with how promising we look at the moment, we will be coming up against stronger footballing nations and will need to be able to set up defensively and counter well, I think 3-5-2 or 5-3-2 allows us to do that best 

I think we should really acknowledge Winston Reid too. Here is a guy at a tough point in his career, comes and plays with an obvious injury when needed most. A lesser man, firstly wouldn’t have come in the first place, and mostly, wouldn’t have played injured. Especially with his recent history of injury.

Napier Phoenix

I think we should really acknowledge Winston Reid too. Here is a guy at a tough point in his career, comes and plays with an obvious injury when needed most. A lesser man, firstly wouldn’t have come in the first place, and mostly, wouldn’t have played injured. Especially with his recent history of injury.

Yipe is a good point, and hopefully he hasn't done his knee any further harm by bravely playing on.

Some may cynically say though that it helps still being paid a bucket load by West Ham every week, regardless if he's injured, without a club etc etc!  Hopefully finds a club soon. J League? Few ex big name players there running around.

Some pics from last night.
https://www.facebook.com/AllWhites/photos/pcb.10159962327587697/10159962324067697

https://twitter.com/jfa_samuraiblue/status/1421775649518223365

BrockieTheGOAT

Playing in World Cups, I think 3-5-2 is the best way to get the most out of our players and set up to frustrate the opposition. I can see our full strength lineup at Qatar being something like this:

Woud 
Cacace Boxall Reid Tuiloma Payne
Thomas Bell 
Singh 
Waine Wood

Swap out Waine for Barbarouses, Woud for Sail, Marinovic, or Payne for Fenton, Roux, Elliot, Ingham if you'd like. 

That's a pretty tough back 3 to get past, and allows Cacace more freedom to attack which will be crucial, also allowing Payne to get forward to swing in a cross. A spark of creativity with Singh sitting behind two strikers, which will take some attention of Wood and allow another target to aim at in the box. 

I get people think 5 at the back is inherently negative football but we have to be realistic, even with how promising we look at the moment, we will be coming up against stronger footballing nations and will need to be able to set up defensively and counter well, I think 3-5-2 or 5-3-2 allows us to do that best 

Other than the ones you mentioned: Smith (is he still available?), Rojas (if he gets injury free and has a big year for MV), Just and Stensness are the others who I could see as possibilities, maybe McCowatt Or Champness in the squad too. 

I thought Just looked very good the first two games, but looked tired against Romania/Japan. Stensness is a versatile player (defense or good midfield backup for Thomas/Bell and better than Lewis) who has improved rapidly, should definitely be in any squad - maybe even ahead of Tuiloma in the starting lineup from what I've seen (which admittedly isn't much of Bill seeing as the AW's never play and I don't watch MLS).

Pijnaker is another one who depending on injuries/availability might come into consideration.

Nice to have so much depth! My biggest concern would be if Wood gets injured... other than Waine we don't have any decent out and out strikers (I don't think Kosta qualifies as one).

https://www.facebook.com/AllWhites/photos/a.10152035682272697/10159963986722697

https://theniche-cache.com/football/2021/8/2/olywhites-at-tokyo-2020-heads-held-high

coochiee

https://www.facebook.com/AllWhites/photos/a.10152035682272697/10159963986722697

https://theniche-cache.com/football/2021/8/2/olywhites-at-tokyo-2020-heads-held-high

An interesting viewpoint from the niche.  Let's see if the future shows any support for the optimism.  I'm not so sure of the futures for some under Hay.

My over all ratings for the OlyWhites is 8/10, my rating for the Ferns is 2/10.

Rate the respective coaches please.

Poco

My over all ratings for the OlyWhites is 8/10, my rating for the Ferns is 2/10.

Napier Phoenix

Rate the respective coaches please.

Poco

My over all ratings for the OlyWhites is 8/10, my rating for the Ferns is 2/10.

Hay gets a B+ for using smart tactics that got us to the QF,
Sermanni gets a F- not that the players helped, minimal effort produces minimal results. 

Hay / Buckingham for the squad that has been built 8 out of 10 
Performances Well Honduras 3-2 loss was only blip really and we all saw that and why (Woud came good v Japan ) 

Re the Ferns aren’t we supposed to be doing the “yeah but Sweden made the final and Aussie and the US were the other Semi finalists “ I see Ali Reilly has mentioned it “our tough group” .
I think some would have given them a pass mark with 3 losses if they’d all been closer (but that’s their problem a close loss v best in the world we’ll take it ) I can see both sides and with No warm up games etc what did we expect .
See Canada won Gold last night with ex NZF coach Bev Preistman in charge (a pity she doesn’t fancy a few years back in NZ with her Kiwi wife and family back here ???? For a home World Cup but those Canadian $$$ and a new contract will keep her you’d say )
There’s a story there  for the press AV .

Poco

Napier Phoenix

Rate the respective coaches please.

Poco

My over all ratings for the OlyWhites is 8/10, my rating for the Ferns is 2/10.

Hay gets a B+ for using smart tactics that got us to the QF,
Sermanni gets a F- not that the players helped, minimal effort produces minimal results. 

4 men's semifinalists were Spain, Brazil, Mexico & Japan.

So in fairness to the Football Ferns, put 3 of those teams in the Oly Whites pool, and they could easily have been looking at 3 losses as well.

I really like this theory /idea 
Put the Men against the semi finalist in group play and what would have done (sure never know)
What we do know is Korea who did come out of our group didn’t progress and Japan who we lost to finished 4th so luck of the draw went for them and against our ladies .
But maybe our ladies just need to play that next tier down more often although in Covid times you’d think a Regular a couple of games v Aussie should be back up for discussion especially for the Men .

Would a Ferns tour around the UK be doable ?
I think NZ in 2022 would be an ideal pre Women’s World Cup trip for international sides can we get some games down here ?

An aside and no where near 2nd tier but with our strong ties to both Canadian sides Preistman and Herdman coaching the Men’s side can NZF chase these sorts of teams to visit ?

Justafan

coochiee

Poco

Napier Phoenix

Rate the respective coaches please.

Poco

My over all ratings for the OlyWhites is 8/10, my rating for the Ferns is 2/10.

Hay gets a B+ for using smart tactics that got us to the QF,
Sermanni gets a F- not that the players helped, minimal effort produces minimal results. 

4 men's semifinalists were Spain, Brazil, Mexico & Japan.

So in fairness to the Football Ferns, put 3 of those teams in the Oly Whites pool, and they could easily have been looking at 3 losses as well.

Yep.  The Olyboys were quite lucky.   The Korea win was fortuitous, Costa Rica possibly showed our true form.  A strategic draw to Japan, then handing penalty duties to poor tournament performers.  
I don't credit much to Hay or see much improvement for the future under his watch.  He obviously did the best he could given the roster he had, but for me he failed to lift the boys and the performances to anywhere near that of the lads at the U20 world cup. 2/10 for me.
Credit to the team though.  Historic results.  Hopefully the records don't stand for too long.

COnst

Justafan

coochiee

Poco

Napier Phoenix

Rate the respective coaches please.

Poco

My over all ratings for the OlyWhites is 8/10, my rating for the Ferns is 2/10.

Hay gets a B+ for using smart tactics that got us to the QF,
Sermanni gets a F- not that the players helped, minimal effort produces minimal results. 

4 men's semifinalists were Spain, Brazil, Mexico & Japan.

So in fairness to the Football Ferns, put 3 of those teams in the Oly Whites pool, and they could easily have been looking at 3 losses as well.

Yep.  The Olyboys were quite lucky.   The Korea win was fortuitous, Costa Rica possibly showed our true form.  A strategic draw to Japan, then handing penalty duties to poor tournament performers.  
I don't credit much to Hay or see much improvement for the future under his watch.  He obviously did the best he could given the roster he had, but for me he failed to lift the boys and the performances to anywhere near that of the lads at the U20 world cup. 2/10 for me.
Credit to the team though.  Historic results.  Hopefully the records don't stand for too long.

Honduras* and we actually played pretty decent against them, just three horrific errors from Woud (and Stanger). 

We got better as the tournament progressed. That was to be expected since we had not played together at all bar for a couple hit outs against Australia.

Was there another team less prepared than ours? That's not Hay's fault, perhaps not even NZF's either.

We did better than any NZ mens team has ever done at a major tournament. A 2/10 by COnsts suggest the score is more of a personal gripe than an objective opinion (in my mind).

I give Hay and the team a 8.

Hay deserves credit for sticking with Woud when no one else would, but for also being brave enough to drop an expected starter in Lewis for a 19 year old kid in Garbett. That's a tough decision for a coach to make.

Justafan

Hay / Buckingham for the squad that has been built 8 out of 10 
Performances Well Honduras 3-2 loss was only blip really and we all saw that and why (Woud came good v Japan ) 

Re the Ferns aren’t we supposed to be doing the “yeah but Sweden made the final and Aussie and the US were the other Semi finalists “ I see Ali Reilly has mentioned it “our tough group” .
I think some would have given them a pass mark with 3 losses if they’d all been closer (but that’s their problem a close loss v best in the world we’ll take it ) I can see both sides and with No warm up games etc what did we expect .
See Canada won Gold last night with ex NZF coach Bev Preistman in charge (a pity she doesn’t fancy a few years back in NZ with her Kiwi wife and family back here ???? For a home World Cup but those Canadian $$$ and a new contract will keep her you’d say )
There’s a story there  for the press AV .

im sure I read an article previously with Preistman partner Emma who at time was Liverpool woman's assistant coach saying that they wanted to come back to NZ and coach the ferns. Preistman at the time was Phil Nevilles assistant coach with England.

watching_from_far

Justafan

Hay / Buckingham for the squad that has been built 8 out of 10 
Performances Well Honduras 3-2 loss was only blip really and we all saw that and why (Woud came good v Japan ) 

Re the Ferns aren’t we supposed to be doing the “yeah but Sweden made the final and Aussie and the US were the other Semi finalists “ I see Ali Reilly has mentioned it “our tough group” .
I think some would have given them a pass mark with 3 losses if they’d all been closer (but that’s their problem a close loss v best in the world we’ll take it ) I can see both sides and with No warm up games etc what did we expect .
See Canada won Gold last night with ex NZF coach Bev Preistman in charge (a pity she doesn’t fancy a few years back in NZ with her Kiwi wife and family back here ???? For a home World Cup but those Canadian $$$ and a new contract will keep her you’d say )
There’s a story there  for the press AV .

im sure I read an article previously with Preistman partner Emma who at time was Liverpool woman's assistant coach saying that they wanted to come back to NZ and coach the ferns. Preistman at the time was Phil Nevilles assistant coach with England.

It’d be very surprising to leave a team that had just won gold in the Olympics two years before a World Cup, to join a team that is going backwards in relation to rivals

Preistman only got the Canadian gig late last year, and now has Olympics gold. Unlikely sadly unlikely her & Emma Humphries will be looking at NZ any time soon. They sound quite a duo.

But think it is probably time Ferns looked at having a female coach. At least as no 1 assistant. Natalie Lawrence and Maia Vink, are 2 other coaches who sounds like have been working with women's football in Canada. I guess Birnie will be putting his hand up.
 
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/world-game/122703987/meet-emma-humphries-the-wellington-woman-coaching-at-liverpool-football-club
Looking to the future, Humphries said it would be a dream to return to New Zealand to coach the Football Ferns one day, potentially even in tandem with Priestman, who she revealed has been open about her interest in the role in the past.

carlind

watching_from_far

Justafan

Hay / Buckingham for the squad that has been built 8 out of 10 
Performances Well Honduras 3-2 loss was only blip really and we all saw that and why (Woud came good v Japan ) 

Re the Ferns aren’t we supposed to be doing the “yeah but Sweden made the final and Aussie and the US were the other Semi finalists “ I see Ali Reilly has mentioned it “our tough group” .
I think some would have given them a pass mark with 3 losses if they’d all been closer (but that’s their problem a close loss v best in the world we’ll take it ) I can see both sides and with No warm up games etc what did we expect .
See Canada won Gold last night with ex NZF coach Bev Preistman in charge (a pity she doesn’t fancy a few years back in NZ with her Kiwi wife and family back here ???? For a home World Cup but those Canadian $$$ and a new contract will keep her you’d say )
There’s a story there  for the press AV .

im sure I read an article previously with Preistman partner Emma who at time was Liverpool woman's assistant coach saying that they wanted to come back to NZ and coach the ferns. Preistman at the time was Phil Nevilles assistant coach with England.

It’d be very surprising to leave a team that had just won gold in the Olympics two years before a World Cup, to join a team that is going backwards in relation to rivals

yeah sorry I more meant at a later date it could happen, she would be crazy to do it now.

COnst

Justafan

coochiee

Poco

Napier Phoenix

Rate the respective coaches please.

Poco

My over all ratings for the OlyWhites is 8/10, my rating for the Ferns is 2/10.

Hay gets a B+ for using smart tactics that got us to the QF,
Sermanni gets a F- not that the players helped, minimal effort produces minimal results. 

4 men's semifinalists were Spain, Brazil, Mexico & Japan.

So in fairness to the Football Ferns, put 3 of those teams in the Oly Whites pool, and they could easily have been looking at 3 losses as well.

Yep.  The Olyboys were quite lucky.   The Korea win was fortuitous, Costa Rica possibly showed our true form.  A strategic draw to Japan, then handing penalty duties to poor tournament performers.  
I don't credit much to Hay or see much improvement for the future under his watch.  He obviously did the best he could given the roster he had, but for me he failed to lift the boys and the performances to anywhere near that of the lads at the U20 world cup. 2/10 for me.
Credit to the team though.  Historic results.  Hopefully the records don't stand for too long.

jesus