I just don't like our Olympic team,
Not when its missing our best young defender in Michael Fitzgerald.
Our best midfeilder in Chris James.
And statistically our best under 23 striker Steven Halloway (despite playing for the average Waikato team and been regularly injured)
Why aren't these players been picked? Put aside your difference Mr Wilson and think of the good of the game and making us competative.
Also what about Caleb Rufer and Nick Rojas, if they are good enough to get trials at Werder Bremen, Hannover etc should they possibly be there? Or is it because they are part of Rufers camp, although to be fair it be pretty hard for Caleb not to be!
Its looks like politics from the outside and i am very surpriesed, actually not to suprised considering our media that no one has brought up James' if its for putting his career before country, Nelson just admitted to doing that effectively for two years in his article. He gets picked though??? Double standards for him because he's our top player, but in five years, it could be James.
I want to know why not James and the others!!!
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Not sure about some of the above but I think HN has indicated elsewhere that James asked to not be considered. As for Rufer and Rojas I think they're still a bit to young.
Peoples Republik of Aucklandia
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Chris James said he was not available for the Olympic side. End of.
Rufer and Rojas got trials at Werder because of who they know. At this point neither have been signed, and they are what ? 15 ? By that token Chris Woods who is off to join the West Brom Academy (not just trialling) should have been included ahead of those two.
There is no one in NZ who knows this age group of players better than Stu Jacobs and Co, how about we assume that (just maybe) those who watch them week in and week out might just know more than those who see them once or twice a season ?
Rufer and Rojas got trials at Werder because of who they know. At this point neither have been signed, and they are what ? 15 ? By that token Chris Woods who is off to join the West Brom Academy (not just trialling) should have been included ahead of those two.
There is no one in NZ who knows this age group of players better than Stu Jacobs and Co, how about we assume that (just maybe) those who watch them week in and week out might just know more than those who see them once or twice a season ?
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Fine points about rojas and rufer hard news,
James i would like more info than apparenty he made himself unavailabe ,although why anyone would do this i dont know.
What about Fitzgerald though, Old over him? compare leagues and training standards.
Any ides on why Halloway not picked aswell?
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Someone in the camp assured me he had said he was not interested in the Olympics.
I can't answer the other two, but you just have to assume people have reasons. Personally I'd have Steve, but I'm boased as I know him, but these guys know the balance they want and need.
Incidentally, by what measurement is Fitzgerald our best young defender ?
I can't answer the other two, but you just have to assume people have reasons. Personally I'd have Steve, but I'm boased as I know him, but these guys know the balance they want and need.
Incidentally, by what measurement is Fitzgerald our best young defender ?
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And what kind of politics are you suggesting led to his exclusion? Why do people always jump on this politics band wagon, maybe he just wasn't good enough.
Re: Chris James, maybe he rates himself a little bit more highly than others do, which is why he's ended up at a club that has recently starred Noah Hickey and Raf.
Holloway, statistically for whom? and as you say, perhaps the fact that he has been regularly injured might have counted against him.
Normo's coming home
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Why aren't these players been picked? Put aside your difference Mr Wilson and think of the good of the game and making us competative.
[/quote]
What has Napier City Rovers' striker got to do with any of this?
[quote=TouchMe]
Also what about Caleb Rufer and Nick Rojas, if they are good enough to get trials at Werder Bremen, Hannover etc should they possibly be there?
Credibility: gone.
Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.
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I just don't like our Olympic team,
Not when its missing our best young defender in Michael Fitzgerald.
Our best midfeilder in Chris James.
And statistically our best under 23 striker Steven Halloway (despite playing for the average Waikato team and been regularly injured)
Why aren't these players been picked? Put aside your difference Mr Wilson and think of the good of the game and making us competative.
Also what about Caleb Rufer and Nick Rojas, if they are good enough to get trials at Werder Bremen, Hannover etc should they possibly be there? Or is it because they are part of Rufers camp, although to be fair it be pretty hard for Caleb not to be!
Its looks like politics from the outside and i am very surpriesed, actually not to suprised considering our media that no one has brought up James' if its for putting his career before country, Nelson just admitted to doing that effectively for two years in his article. He gets picked though??? Double standards for him because he's our top player, but in five years, it could be James.
I want to know why not James and the others!!!
Sounds to me like you've got your own little agenda for getting some of these guys on the pitch! as others have said already I'd back Stu and his crew to pick the players they've seen all season as over somone who has possibly only seen them two or three times.
Queenslander 3x a year.
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And yes, of course there would be double standards between a premiership star and a guy playing in Finland, I mean Finland for god's sake!!
Normo's coming home
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Look at Fitzgerald, the level he is training at is higher than any other New Zealand back other than Nelsen, so I based my thoughts on this.
In regards to James' i'd just like to know why he's not playing and if it his own decision, why this decision?
I read an interesting piece on Halloway which is why i looked at him aswell, he scored 9 goals in the nzfc, higher than any other nz u23 striker and missed a large section of the season, also his record in the states is impressive. The stikers selected don't install fear in me.
Instead of saying my credibility is gone how about coming up with reasons for them not been included.
In terms of Rajos and Caleb i used them as they are clearly two talented footballers who would gain invalueble experience been there, more so tah others selected whol will never be better than nzfc level.
Please give reasoned responses.
p.s. my only agenda is to see nz football improve.
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Some points (not necessarily in order).
1, That is a question you will have to ask Chris James. I can assure you he said he was unavailable. His pulling out days before the U-20's is hardly a sign of an over-whelming keenness to represent New Zealand.
2, It's Holloway, with an o. It's a little thing, but does kind of undermine your point when your knowledge of him doesn't even include his correct name. I suspect he's sitting in Fiji (where he is working at the Oceania Futsal champs) reading this and having a chuckle. Personally he'd be in my squad, but to claim he is out because of politics ? That is pretty major stretch.
3, I'm sorry, but the Rufer and Rojas thing is a joke. They went for trials of a fortnight at two clubs, based on who Caleb's father is. To claim that two weeks running around with the clubs academies makes them Olympic options is ridiculous. By that logic, Daniel Finlay spent a week with the Phoenix so he should be a chance ahead of Shaun van Rooyen ? Hell, Lonegunman trialled at QPR, Gunman, you available for an over-age spot at the Olympics ?
4, How do we have any idea what level Niigata train at ? He signed for the side in recent months and has he even played a single game for the club ?
The ACL has proved that the top of the J-League isn't necessarily that far above the A-League, and he's not at one of the top sides on current form. Stephen Old has actually played 13 A-League games for two clubs. I would also suggest that Boyens 26 matches in the MLS and experience means he is at a higher level, how about Pelter who spent a year training at Sunderland (and isn't as good as Michael Boxall) ?
We are also assuming he hasn't just said no to playing for NZ, in fact with his guidance coming from Wynton there is every chance.
Have you actually seen him play or is the selection just a result of the WYNRS propaganda ?
1, That is a question you will have to ask Chris James. I can assure you he said he was unavailable. His pulling out days before the U-20's is hardly a sign of an over-whelming keenness to represent New Zealand.
2, It's Holloway, with an o. It's a little thing, but does kind of undermine your point when your knowledge of him doesn't even include his correct name. I suspect he's sitting in Fiji (where he is working at the Oceania Futsal champs) reading this and having a chuckle. Personally he'd be in my squad, but to claim he is out because of politics ? That is pretty major stretch.
3, I'm sorry, but the Rufer and Rojas thing is a joke. They went for trials of a fortnight at two clubs, based on who Caleb's father is. To claim that two weeks running around with the clubs academies makes them Olympic options is ridiculous. By that logic, Daniel Finlay spent a week with the Phoenix so he should be a chance ahead of Shaun van Rooyen ? Hell, Lonegunman trialled at QPR, Gunman, you available for an over-age spot at the Olympics ?
4, How do we have any idea what level Niigata train at ? He signed for the side in recent months and has he even played a single game for the club ?
The ACL has proved that the top of the J-League isn't necessarily that far above the A-League, and he's not at one of the top sides on current form. Stephen Old has actually played 13 A-League games for two clubs. I would also suggest that Boyens 26 matches in the MLS and experience means he is at a higher level, how about Pelter who spent a year training at Sunderland (and isn't as good as Michael Boxall) ?
We are also assuming he hasn't just said no to playing for NZ, in fact with his guidance coming from Wynton there is every chance.
Have you actually seen him play or is the selection just a result of the WYNRS propaganda ?
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And...
5, If you are going to allege politics, care to explain why ? It better be better than because they have come through WYNRS (Steve hasn't) because a number of those included in the squad are higher profile Rufer products than anyone you named.
5, If you are going to allege politics, care to explain why ? It better be better than because they have come through WYNRS (Steve hasn't) because a number of those included in the squad are higher profile Rufer products than anyone you named.
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Look at Fitzgerald, the level he is training at is higher than any other New Zealand back other than Nelsen, so I based my thoughts on this. [/QUOTE]
The fact is if all he is doing is training, and you are in another country, I don't know how any coach would be able to judge, what are they supposed to do, turn up at training and ask to see him having a kick around? Is he training with the first team? Is he fit? Do you know anything about him other than the club he is with?
In regards to James' i'd just like to know why he's not playing and if it his own decision, why this decision?[/QUOTE]
Considering he turned up to the u20s out of shape and without a club, was told he wouldn't be starting and then pulled pin, I think that says a lot.
[QUOTE=TouchMe]I read an interesting piece on Halloway which is why i looked at him aswell, he scored 9 goals in the nzfc, higher than any other nz u23 striker and missed a large section of the season, also his record in the states is impressive. The stikers selected don't install fear in me.
That's your opinion, you may be correct. But I still don't see any politcs in the selection. Draper hasn't played a lot so may be lucky to be there, but he has performed at that level before. Like I said he could be unlucky.
[QUOTE=TouchMe]In terms of Rajos and Caleb i used them as they are clearly two talented footballers who would gain invalueble experience been there, more so tah others selected whol will never be better than nzfc level.
1. We don't send people to the Olympics to give people them "invaluable experience". Even if they have potential their ability right now is what is important. We go there to perform.
2. What have they achieved in the game other than these trials? Do you realise it is actually fairly easy it is to get trials at big clubs (or any club)? But the percentage of those who then go on to get contracts is tiny, and these are only at academy level. If you take a look at how many academy graduates go on to play first team football, it's again minute. And considering who his father is it would be VERY easy for Rufer to get trials. If he gets an academy position, that will be another thing altogether, but even then his chances of playing first team football are small.
3. They are 15, there is a huge difference between 25 and u23, let alone over age players. Let them play in the u17s if they are good enough.
4. Have you ever seen either of them play? Or are you judging them by them getting trials alone?
Normo's coming home
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Originally posted by TouchMe
Look at Fitzgerald, the level he is training at is higher than any other New Zealand back other than Nelsen, so I based my thoughts on this.
Look at Fitzgerald, the level he is training at is higher than any other New Zealand back other than Nelsen, so I based my thoughts on this.
The fact is if all he is doing is training, and you are in another country, I don't know how any coach would be able to judge, what are they supposed to do, turn up at training and ask to see him having a kick around? Is he training with the first team? Is he fit? Do you know anything about him other than the club he is with?
Fitzgerald is actually in the First Team squad. The team he signed a contract for, is the J1 League team Albirex Niigata who were placed 5th in the J-League in 2007. Currently they are 5 points from third place in the J-League. As part of the first team squad he trains with the first team and I know that he has been on the bench twice for the first team. The fact that they signed him, is an achievement in itself, as the only foreigners the Japanese usually sign are Brazilians or named players eg: Wynton Rufer. He is the only NZer to be signed by a J-1 team outside of Rufer.
If you don't think training with a J-League is any mean feat, you obviously have not watched professionals train. You have to be sharp, have exceptional touch and be more than proficient with both feet. As far as Fitzgerald being the best young NZ defender, I wouldn't be able to comment on that, technically and athletically he is one of the most gifted players in his age group. He played with the likes of Peverley and Boxhall in his younger days and was equally on a par with these players if not better. (Touch wise he was more gifted and had an uncanny understanding of the game.) He has played football for the last 3 years in a country where the football level is at a totally different level to NZ, you need only ask the NZFC players that played in the Club champs there. The fact that out of all the young players produced in this country, they would sign him, must also account for something. After all, look where Japan is ranked in comparison to NZ and the fact that most of their players that play in their National team play in the J-League, and I think that would give you a hint of the boys calibre. As far as being fit goes, I understand that those players who don't actually make the playing squad for the week play in a J-League Reserves League and the boy has been playing in these games, apparently he scored a cracker of a goal the other week - left foot volley. You're probably wondering how I know all this, but I have followed his progress while in Japan, as my son used to play with him. I also heard on the grapevine that he is eligible for Japanese residency next year, so eventually will be eligible to play for Japan and he has a European passport (Southern Ireland) so is also eligible to play for Ireland. Who knows if he makes a name for himself he could end up throwing his hat in with one of these countries and why wouldn't you?
His brother is apparently very talented as well, having being selected for the NZ U17s squad at 14. Apparently he got dropped due to an attitude problem and then played his way back in to the final squad, so like Corey Chettleburgh he was a year younger than the other players in the squad. Unfortunately after the pre-world cup tournament in Korea, he was diagnosed with cancer and had to pull out of the World Cup team. I think Wynton Rufer raved about this boy and from what I've heard many coaches have acknowledged him as the best talent they've seen. Apparently he was a very elegant player and at the age of 13 had 3 J-League clubs interested - I believe that Wynton Rufer is his mentor and on his advice he did not take up any offers as he was too young.
Originally posted by TouchMe
In terms of Rajos and Caleb i used them as they are clearly two talented footballers who would gain invalueble experience been there, more so tah others selected whol will never be better than nzfc level.
In terms of Rajos and Caleb i used them as they are clearly two talented footballers who would gain invalueble experience been there, more so tah others selected whol will never be better than nzfc level.
Caleb is the same age as Fitzgerald's brother 16, while Rajos is 15. Caleb is too old for the U17s bu I would agree, that Rajos should play for the U17s. (I think that he is in the wider U17s squad)
Originally posted by TouchMe
In regards to James' i'd just like to know why he's not playing and if it his own decision, why this decision?
In regards to James' i'd just like to know why he's not playing and if it his own decision, why this decision?
Considering he turned up to the u20s out of shape and without a club, was told he wouldn't be starting and then pulled pin, I think that says a lot.
I find it hard to believe that James would have been out of shape in comparison to the NZ players. I would think that the reason he hasn't been picked can only have something to do with the Coach and the Management team.
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Fitzgerald is actually in the First Team squad. The team he signed a contract for, is the J1 League team Albirex Niigata who were placed 5th in the J-League in 2007. Currently they are 5 points from third place in the J-League. As part of the first team squad he trains with the first team and I know that he has been on the bench twice for the first team. The fact that they signed him, is an achievement in itself, as the only foreigners the Japanese usually sign are Brazilians or named players eg: Wynton Rufer.
[/quote]
Fact. That's a great achievement.
He is the only NZer to be signed by a J-1 team outside of Rufer.
Wasn't Michael Hoffmann at Kyoto Sanga? And aren't they in the J League Div 1?
[quote=Ronald]
If you don't think training with a J-League is any mean feat, you obviously have not watched professionals train. You have to be sharp, have exceptional touch and be more than proficient with both feet. As far as Fitzgerald being the best young NZ defender, I wouldn't be able to comment on that, technically and athletically he is one of the most gifted players in his age group. He played with the likes of Peverley and Boxhall in his younger days and was equally on a par with these players if not better. (Touch wise he was more gifted and had an uncanny understanding of the game.) He has played football for the last 3 years in a country where the football level is at a totally different level to NZ, you need only ask the NZFC players that played in the Club champs there.
Sounds like you're actually quite keen to comment. But fair enough.
Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.
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Originally posted by Ronald
He is the only NZer to be signed by a J-1 team outside of Rufer.
Wasn't Michael Hoffmann at Kyoto Sanga? And aren't they in the J League Div 1?
The boy's name is Mario Hoffman and he is not in the Kyoto Sanga J-League squad. (You can see this on the J-League site, as all the J-League team list the names of their squad players on this site). He is in their youth academy.
Originally posted by Ronald
If you don't think training with a J-League is any mean feat, you obviously have not watched professionals train. You have to be sharp, have exceptional touch and be more than proficient with both feet. As far as Fitzgerald being the best young NZ defender, I wouldn't be able to comment on that, technically and athletically he is one of the most gifted players in his age group. He played with the likes of Peverley and Boxhall in his younger days and was equally on a par with these players if not better. (Touch wise he was more gifted and had an uncanny understanding of the game.) He has played football for the last 3 years in a country where the football level is at a totally different level to NZ, you need only ask the NZFC players that played in the Club champs there.
Sounds like you're actually quite keen to comment. But fair enough.
I guess as my son played with him for quite a few years, I can't understand why NZ Soccer Management continually fail to recognise genuine talent. He's just one of many that they have failed to recognise. Anyway I guess if the boy is as good as I've said, his achievements in the next 5 years should speak for themselves.
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It's a subjective thing picking a football team.
What position does this lad play. Who is he up against in that age group?
Maybe he's just unlucky that he's up against some other quality players for a spot?
I really don't know the age group so these are genuine questions.
Incredible stamina. No shame. Yellow Fever.
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I guess coaches will always go with players they know. Sometimes though I wish we'd get a coach who looked at things that are so obviously glaring, eg: the level that players are playing and training at week in and week out. I mean if you have a professional player, you know that they are going to be training at a very high level every day for 5 days and in most cases it can be up to twice a day. Of course these professional players, even if they only play in the Reserve League, the level will be much higher than here. When you think that Jack Pelter was only playing in the Reserve League and wasn't training with the first team like this boy and yet was picked, you do have to wonder what the difference is.
Anyway the boy/lad is 19 and is in the same age group as Boxhall and Peverley, I think they played age group reps together. He played defensive mid-field when my son played with him. He's 6ft 3 and currently plays anywhere along the backline for his J-League side and as he's good at attacking they use him like a wing back. My opinion (which is just my opinion) is this boy is better than the likes of Fowler, Hogg, Boxhall and even Jack Pelter and all these were named in the Olympic Team. I've watched all of the above and their touch alone doesn't come close to this boys' let alone their other personal skills and abilities. As I said that's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.
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Thanks for the infor Ronaldo, if i thought i had a case before i certainly do now. I can only assume he's to far away to look at. Maybe with our 'current' financial crisis it was deemed to wxpensive to fly him out andhave a look at him.
Also i would like to know now having seen the All White squad how Chris James can make that but not the u23 team???
Surely he has not been selected because of the u20 world cup pull out due to his need to find a club.
This is a rediculous selection mistake by Jacobs, James is clearly our best player in that age group and i am sure he would have loved to compete at the olympics just like every other international footballer.
Or maybe since these two like to play football as oppose to long ball so they didn't fit into the tactics we are going to employ just like he did with the u20's.
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I find it hard to believe that James would have been out of shape in comparison to the NZ players. I would think that the reason he hasn't been picked can only have something to do with the Coach and the Management team.
You think or you know? Because he was without a club and apart from All Whites matches hadn't played any other games prior to that for Fulham for about 3 months. Don't guess.
Normo's coming home
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I guess coaches will always go with players they know. Sometimes though I wish we'd get a coach who looked at things that are so obviously glaring, eg: the level that players are playing and training at week in and week out. I mean if you have a professional player, you know that they are going to be training at a very high level every day for 5 days and in most cases it can be up to twice a day. Of course these professional players, even if they only play in the Reserve League, the level will be much higher than here. When you think that Jack Pelter was only playing in the Reserve League and wasn't training with the first team like this boy and yet was picked, you do have to wonder what the difference is.
The point is Ronald, when was the last time you saw him play? Are you just making a judgement based on what you saw him do 3 years ago? That is the problem, how can you objectively make a judgement on the guy when all he has done is trained and played in the J-League reserve league. Who knows what the standard is like there? All you are saying is that he got picked up by this club and he trains with good players so he must be good. But then you use the same criticism on Jack Pelter who has played for the u20s before, performed really well in Canada, and has been one of their best players.
For example, the Premiership Reserve League is widely acknowledged as being weak, but the premiership is one of the top leagues in the world. Who is to say that the J-League reserve league is better than American College? I have absolutely no idea, but do you?
Normo's coming home
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Originally posted by Ronald
I find it hard to believe that James would have been out of shape in comparison to the NZ players. I would think that the reason he hasn't been picked can only have something to do with the Coach and the Management team.
Reply from James Dean
You think or you know? Because he was without a club and apart from All Whites matches hadn't played any other games prior to that for Fulham for about 3 months. Don't guess.
Point taken. Put it this way, the NZ based players that were picked would only be training 3 times a week max with a team (and usually only if they're in an NZFC squad). The fact that James was a professional and because he was so passionate about his football, I think he would know what was required to stay in shape. I watched the U20games and personally thought that no-one in the NZ side matched James sharpness. Although I have to admit I was quite impressed by Peverley but again I know that Peverley spent quite a few years in Germany. Somehow I can't help thinking that the kids that spend a good stinit overseas are better than those that have only plyed their trade in NZ - of course there will be a few exceptions - but even these if they don't get away by 18 I don't think they make mush progress. (I'm sure Soccer NZ don't like to admit this).
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Posted by James Dean
The point is Ronald, when was the last time you saw him play? Are you just making a judgement based on what you saw him do 3 years ago? That is the problem, how can you objectively make a judgement on the guy when all he has done is trained and played in the J-League reserve league. Who knows what the standard is like there? All you are saying is that he got picked up by this club and he trains with good players so he must be good. But then you use the same criticism on Jack Pelter who has played for the u20s before, performed really well in Canada, and has been one of their best players.
For example, the Premiership Reserve League is widely acknowledged as being weak, but the premiership is one of the top leagues in the world. Who is to say that the J-League reserve league is better than American College? I have absolutely no idea, but do you?
If you have ever played football, surely you must know that there is no way you can play with good players if you are crap. If your touch is not close to perfect you're gonna get the ball pinched off you every time (exactly what happens to the NZrs) and if you can't think fast enough the same thing will happen. If a player is hopeless at 10 there's not much hope for him, but if he's good at 10 and good at 15, you can bet your bottom dollar, in the right environment he's going to be great at 18.
I guess that's what this lad is up against - a lot of people think that because it's Japan the level can't be any good. Wake up - the Japanese have been at the last 2 World Cups. Why you might ask, because they actually concentrate on developing their young players. Fortunately for this lad he was good enough to be picked up by one of their academies at 16.
If you've ever read Michael Jordan's autobiography you would've read that training is just as important as playing the game. Yes you are right I might not have seen this lad play in the last few years but after talking with some NZFC players that went to Japan I'm sure this lad has to have some ability - they reckon the calibre of football is very high. (It would have to be if they're producing a team from their domestic league that can beat the Australians.) If you know anything about the Japanese, you would know that they are not easily impressed, especially when it comes to foreigners - so the fact that this lad got something speaks for itself.
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Originally posted by Ronald
I find it hard to believe that James would have been out of shape in comparison to the NZ players. I would think that the reason he hasn't been picked can only have something to do with the Coach and the Management team.
Reply from James Dean
You think or you know? Because he was without a club and apart from All Whites matches hadn't played any other games prior to that for Fulham for about 3 months. Don't guess.
Point taken. Put it this way, the NZ based players that were picked would only be training 3 times a week max with a team (and usually only if they're in an NZFC squad). The fact that James was a professional and because he was so passionate about his football, I think he would know what was required to stay in shape. I watched the U20games and personally thought that no-one in the NZ side matched James sharpness. Although I have to admit I was quite impressed by Peverley but again I know that Peverley spent quite a few years in Germany. Somehow I can't help thinking that the kids that spend a good stinit overseas are better than those that have only plyed their trade in NZ - of course there will be a few exceptions - but even these if they don't get away by 18 I don't think they make mush progress. (I'm sure Soccer NZ don't like to admit this).
I think until the coaching of our coaches is up to international standard, and our kids don't kick a ball every day, we'll continue to struggle. But I do think that there are some signs that we're moving in the right direction. I think there is a generation of players coming through in the 14 - 18 type of age who are technically a lot more proficient than those previously. I'm really interested to see how this Olympic team goes as well, this generation has been together for a while and I guess we will see what they are made of.
My problem with the Chris James story is that after a promising start he's ended up at Tampere. Raf de Gregorio and Noah Hickey played there, it's not exactly going to be bumping up his career is it? At least he's getting first team football but at the same time he's not going to get the coaching or the experinence to really take him to th enext level.
Normo's coming home
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Posted by James Dean
The point is Ronald, when was the last time you saw him play? Are you just making a judgement based on what you saw him do 3 years ago? That is the problem, how can you objectively make a judgement on the guy when all he has done is trained and played in the J-League reserve league. Who knows what the standard is like there? All you are saying is that he got picked up by this club and he trains with good players so he must be good. But then you use the same criticism on Jack Pelter who has played for the u20s before, performed really well in Canada, and has been one of their best players.
For example, the Premiership Reserve League is widely acknowledged as being weak, but the premiership is one of the top leagues in the world. Who is to say that the J-League reserve league is better than American College? I have absolutely no idea, but do you?
If you have ever played football, surely you must know that there is no way you can play with good players if you are crap. If your touch is not close to perfect you're gonna get the ball pinched off you every time (exactly what happens to the NZrs) and if you can't think fast enough the same thing will happen. If a player is hopeless at 10 there's not much hope for him, but if he's good at 10 and good at 15, you can bet your bottom dollar, in the right environment he's going to be great at 18.
I guess that's what this lad is up against - a lot of people think that because it's Japan the level can't be any good. Wake up - the Japanese have been at the last 2 World Cups. Why you might ask, because they actually concentrate on developing their young players. Fortunately for this lad he was good enough to be picked up by one of their academies at 16.
If you've ever read Michael Jordan's autobiography you would've read that training is just as important as playing the game. Yes you are right I might not have seen this lad play in the last few years but after talking with some NZFC players that went to Japan I'm sure this lad has to have some ability - they reckon the calibre of football is very high. (It would have to be if they're producing a team from their domestic league that can beat the Australians.) If you know anything about the Japanese, you would know that they are not easily impressed, especially when it comes to foreigners - so the fact that this lad got something speaks for itself.
So your argument is based on:
1. He got signed in the J-League
2. He was a decent young player when he went overseas
3. You've never watched the J-League but you know people who've been to Japan and they said it's great
4. He's been unable to break into the first team but he's training with these good players
It sounds like the guy has potential, as you say he must have something about him to hold his own at that level. But at the same time, I don't see that he's done enough for people to say that he definitely should be there or has been hard done by when Stu Jacobs knows of and has seen all of these players over a number of years. Maybe he trusts the guys more that he has had in the past.
And in reality, playing in Japan at a level where the games aren't televised so the coaches can't get a look at him is a difficult problem. We can't afford to fly guys to Japan to take a look at one player (sad as it is). Let's hope for the good of NZF, and the guy himself, that he breaks into the first team, rips up, and we have new kiwi super star running round in a good professional league.
Normo's coming home
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Also i would like to know now having seen the All White squad how Chris James can make that but not the u23 team???
Surely he has not been selected because of the u20 world cup pull out due to his need to find a club.
This is a rediculous selection mistake by Jacobs, James is clearly our best player in that age group and i am sure he would have loved to compete at the olympics just like every other international footballer.
Or maybe since these two like to play football as oppose to long ball so they didn't fit into the tactics we are going to employ just like he did with the u20's.
For the 6 millionth, and LAST time. Chris James made himself unavailable for the Olympic squad. he did not make himself unavailable for the All Whites. There is no selection mistake. He was asked if he was available for U-23 selection this year and said no. END OF.
This isn't a hunch or a theory, as stated a number of times it is fact.
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1. Its just good to see Chris James in the current All white squad just announced.
2. Our youth football players are improving compared to a few years ago, they have a lot more doors that can open for them. .i.e Age group Worldcups every 2 years, the Phoenix, Man utd u15's Club world cup, all of these things give them realistic goals to aim for and all of them give them exposure to foreign clubs. its all good. That fact that Fitzgerald hasn't been picked shows the headache for choice our coaches have now. It all got to be good. Fitzgerald still has time to prove himself, and when he does he will not be ignored.
If we build it, they will come...
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Might I also point out that of the many kiwis who have gone to ply their wares overseas, especially to the lower level in the UK, how many have cracked it? I'm sure for a lot of them the only difference is over there they have had the chance to train and play every day. If we can replicate that in NZ then I see no reason for a lot of our guys to do the usual tour of the lower and non-leagues looking for a gig. The UK is not the be all and end all (in fact it's pretty far down the list I'm sure). ARe they better people for having done it. Probably. But are they better footballers, I'm not convinced.
Normo's coming home
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I just don't like our Olympic team,
Not when its missing our best young defender in Michael Fitzgerald.
Our best midfeilder in Chris James.
And statistically our best under 23 striker Steven Halloway (despite playing for the average Waikato team and been regularly injured)
Sorry to bring this back up... but how do you justify that Michael Fitzgerald's non-selection must be political when his brother was slected for the U-17's ?
Also, I think you will find Steve Holloway was too old.
...and has already been proven Chris James declined to be available.
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you have to ask yourself why james would make himself unavailable? he would have been a great asset for the side alongside elliott and peverley in midfield.
in regards to fitzgerald. i've never seen him play, but apparently he is the goods. i don't think that we should dis-consider him for selection solely because he plays in japan without yet having cracked the j-league. however the fact remains, that on a limited budget, not every player can be looked at. it's a toughy, but i'm sure if he really is class, he will emerge.
for me, the most interesting thing about the discussion on this thread is 'how competitive/viable are locally based players?' in the past, we have assmebled national teams based around players playing in the rothmans and winfield national leagues and been more than competitive. bobby clark also built his side around domestic based players and stu jacobs has done it now with the olympic side.
will this bring success? what would a locally based new zealand 'a' team look like?
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you have to ask yourself why would he do that? he would have been a great asset for the side alongside elliott and peverley in midfield.
in regards to fitzgerald. i've never seen him play, but apparently he is the goods. i don't think that we should dis-consider him for selection solely because he plays in japan without yet having cracked the j-league. however the fact remains, that on a limited budget, not every player can be looked at. it's a toughy, but i'm sure if he really is class, he will emerge.
for me, the most interesting thing about the discussion on this thread is 'how competitive/viable are locally based players?' in the past, we have assmebled national teams based around players playing in the rothmans and winfield national leagues and been more than competitive. bobby clark also built his side around domestic based players and stu jacobs has done it now with the olympic side.
I've never heard anything about James not making himself available but the Olympic team seem to be doing well enough anyway. Maybe the coaches haven't done too bad a job in the selection of the team after all. Anyway by the looks of things James is making things happen for himself, I've read that he's been starting for Tampere and also scoring for them. I read on someone else's blog that he takes all their set piece plays so obviously he's playing a key attacking role.
As far as Fitzgerald goes, I guess the pot is only so big and as previously said if he is the goods, he will emerge. The other young fellow I just remembered is Chris Bright, surely he was worth looking at, especially since Soccer NZ had previously identified him ie: I'm sure he's been in previous NZ sides. It's a bit odd though that they can fly some of the boys from the USA and yet other countries they don't bother to look at - surely players that are playing for professional clubs have a better footing than those who are only playing football at College in the USA. I'm not knocking the US soccer system, but if young kiwis have managed to get themselves in proper professional setups where they're actually getting paid I'm sure their playing level must be pretty good. I would think that a lot of the boys that are in the College setup are there because they were not able to secure a professional contract with overseas clubs. I know that if I was a young soccer player and my dream was to be a professional, and I had no contacts overseas, I'd be looking a the US system. Even if you end up not landing a contract at the end of your studies, at least you come out with a qualification that didn't cost you thousands of dollars.
I think soccer has changed a lot, and players at an International level have to be the next grade up. Unfortunately I don't think the local competition develops them to the next grade - you only have to watch how our NZFC team does at the World Club champs. The game here just isn't fast enough and I don't think there are enough above average players that can make it go to the next level. It's the same with the rugby, The Super 14 is a totally different level to the NPC.
reg222008-08-04 16:39:56
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The college system in the states is improving yearly and more and more players are securing professional contracts from those systems so i can understand why players choose that route.
Also because weare ranked outside the top 75 nations gaining a professional contract is very hard because we cant get the necessary work permits. Thus more incentive to go to the states.
Kris Bright is playing in the Norweigen second division. Last i heard he scored 12 goals in 8 games before snapping his leg in half. I think he has only recently returned to the game.
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