Vs Mexico 1st Leg Thurs 14th 9:30am SS2

Why?

I don't get why we are calling to throw Strom Roux in there who has had 4 A League games. Far more experienced footballers were down right embarrassed. McGlinchy, near the top of the medal table for A League footballers last year - ineffectual. Yes Roux might have been quicker cause he is younger but also way less experienced. What do you expect him to have done that Bertos could not have done? Durante, fringe Socceroo and now AW. Embarrassed.

The gap between our footballers and Mexican domestic footballers is massive and I believe you are kidding yourself. They played some lovely one touch football in front of our goal that we have not even a shit show of matching with even our best team out there.

I just do not get some of this 'football logic' that is being spouted as stuff that should have been done but clearly ignoring facts.

Interesting to note the difference between better, and experienced. We went with the "experienced" players, but were there other better players available, thats what is being argued. We wont know, RIcki picked his faves and they didnt cut it.

I dont think anyone is saying that we have players that match the Mexican one touch skill level JV, only you are doing that to overemphasize your point of view (as you are prone to do)

The disappointing thing for me was the way we let them come to us, it was only a matter of time till they broke through. Who knows what would have happened if we had engaged  and contested further up the field. I agree that with the views that it was hard to watch an NZ team sitting back, and that isnt the way I want to see us play. 

I can see that there is a level of concern on here from some that Ricki not get lambasted too much before the Wellingon match. I will be pleased to see him go after that. It is similar to the Nix scenario, he was past it there and is past it in this arena also. I will add my thanks for all his efforts in the previous campaigns when that thread starts, but for now, I just want his defensive ultra conservative approach gone

Problem for Oceania teams is the cost. Not so much paying for the men's national, but also having to pay for all the womens and all the age group teams to compete in the Asian Confederation. Australia receives approximately $6 mil a year from the government to help pay for these costs.

The asian World Cup qualifiers starts with most the weaker nations playing home and away qualifiers against each other. By the time pool play starts most of the weaker and poorer nations have been eliminated.

Interesting to note the difference between better, and experienced. We went with the "experienced" players, but were there other better players available, thats what is being argued. We wont know, RIcki picked his faves and they didnt cut it.

I dont think anyone is saying that we have players that match the Mexican one touch skill level JV, only you are doing that to overemphasize your point of view (as you are prone to do)

The disappointing thing for me was the way we let them come to us, it was only a matter of time till they broke through. Who knows what would have happened if we had engaged  and contested further up the field. I agree that with the views that it was hard to watch an NZ team sitting back, and that isnt the way I want to see us play. 

I can see that there is a level of concern on here from some that Ricki not get lambasted too much before the Wellingon match. I will be pleased to see him go after that. It is similar to the Nix scenario, he was past it there and is past it in this arena also. I will add my thanks for all his efforts in the previous campaigns when that thread starts, but for now, I just want his defensive ultra conservative approach gone

I wish Herbert would STFU. He sounds like a moaning bastard now. "it was me that saved NZ football", "it was me alone that got the team into the WC in SA". We have a game next week, a full international against a top side and he is acting very unprofessionally. Save all your "I did not get the recognition I deserved" bullshit to after its all over. You got Halberg coach of the year.....you were widely lauded for your WC SA effort....that was then this is now!.Write a ferkin book and spill your guts then. FFS he is sounding more and more unhinged as time goes on. What this is doing to the players head...god knows!. Ego over substance me thinks!!!!

 

Look I will be glad to see the back of him as well. I think there is a bus load of football folk that are queued up behind me and I know I am not first in the queue either. He has done his time but his time is over. Its disappointing its come to this in terms of results and todays press articles (where I think he embarrasses himself) but he has had some cracking moments as national coach too. They are sadly stories in the past.

 

It was hard watching it all but again, what did people expect. We push higher, they exploit the gaps in behind (as has been pointed out). It was not a good watch but then look who we are playing and what did we actually expect. This was always going to be a hiding to nothing regardless of tactics or personnel - we just got the hiding!

I think there is an opportunity for Ricki to redeem himself before he leaves (which according to todays press, it now interesting yet again) by putting out that young exciting team we want to see. There is nothing in the game so NZ will be afforded the ability to play a bit more than what we did at Azteca before it went 3-0. I think its a case of wait and see what he puts out before tossing him to the wolves. If he was a smart guy, he'd help himself and put out the team we have all talked about. If not, then he deserves all the brick bats going his way and I will happily help others lob them as well.

Responding to this in an unemotive manner I don't think I can agree with most of that.

I don't get why we are calling to throw Strom Roux in there who has had 4 A League games. Far more experienced footballers were down right embarrassed. McGlinchy, near the top of the medal table for A League footballers last year - ineffectual. Yes Roux might have been quicker cause he is younger but also way less experienced. What do you expect him to have done that Bertos could not have done? Durante, fringe Socceroo and now AW. Embarrassed.

The gap between our footballers and Mexican domestic footballers is massive and I believe you are kidding yourself. They played some lovely one touch football in front of our goal that we have not even a shit show of matching with even our best team out there.

 

I just do not get some of this 'football logic' that is being spouted as stuff that should have been done but clearly ignoring facts.

I will also add that many of those calling for Ricki's oimmediatte dismissal couldn't name his assistants let alone a viable alternative to replace him.

I think Ricki might be in for some hard news.

I have yet to see anyone saying it's not time for a change. 

The arguments seem to be that Ricki should be sacked for not playing the U20 squad and not playing like Spain - at altitude in front of 100000 against a side who are light years better than us. Us 'part time fans' don't think that is a fair assessment.

For the first 30 minutes the plan he used (the right plan) worked and then we made stupid errors.  Sure there are a couple of selection questions (for me Ivan should have played in midfield and Siggy should have played ahead of plodder, and I have no idea what the story is with Fitzgerald) but for me the tactics were our only option.  The tactics were not for our defenders to fuck up, and I'm sure they were meant to have a more controlled possession when they did win it.  Unfortunaely the simple facts are that we are not that good.  As Evald sais the sudden expectation that a side who couldn't string three passes together against New Caledonia should suddenly be able to do that against Mexico is laughable.

There are a generation of people that jumped on the bandwagon in 2009 and now think that is the norm.  SInce then we have lost Nelsen, Elliot and Brown (our entire competent midfield) and were missing Reid (and to a lesser extent Payne).  The nation and a pile of johnny-come-lately football fans have delusions of adequacy about this side and the depth and quality of footballers we have available.

Last time I checked the U20 players people are advocating start achieved exactly what at the U20 world cup?  This is real football, not kids football yet people are saying that even though they were poor at the U20 world cup they would have been more competitive than the experienced players we used?

Please.

I have yet to see anyone saying it's not time for a change. 

The arguments seem to be that Ricki should be sacked for not playing the U20 squad and not playing like Spain - at altitude in front of 100000 against a side who are light years better than us. Us 'part time fans' don't think that is a fair assessment.

For the first 30 minutes the plan he used (the right plan) worked and then we made stupid errors.  Sure there are a couple of selection questions (for me Ivan should have played in midfield and Siggy should have played ahead of plodder, and I have no idea what the story is with Fitzgerald) but for me the tactics were our only option.  The tactics were not for our defenders to fuck up, and I'm sure they were meant to have a more controlled possession when they did win it.  Unfortunaely the simple facts are that we are not that good.  As Evald sais the sudden expectation that a side who couldn't string three passes together against New Caledonia should suddenly be able to do that against Mexico is laughable.

There are a generation of people that jumped on the bandwagon in 2009 and now think that is the norm.  SInce then we have lost Nelsen, Elliot and Brown (our entire competent midfield) and were missing Reid (and to a lesser extent Payne).  The nation and a pile of johnny-come-lately football fans have delusions of adequacy about this side and the depth and quality of footballers we have available.

Last time I checked the U20 players people are advocating start achieved exactly what at the U20 world cup?  This is real football, not kids football yet people are saying that even though they were poor at the U20 world cup they would have been more competitive than the experienced players we used?

Please.

I have yet to see anyone saying it's not time for a change. 

The arguments seem to be that Ricki should be sacked for not playing the U20 squad and not playing like Spain - at altitude in front of 100000 against a side who are light years better than us. Us 'part time fans' don't think that is a fair assessment.

For the first 30 minutes the plan he used (the right plan) worked and then we made stupid errors.  Sure there are a couple of selection questions (for me Ivan should have played in midfield and Siggy should have played ahead of plodder, and I have no idea what the story is with Fitzgerald) but for me the tactics were our only option.  The tactics were not for our defenders to fuck up, and I'm sure they were meant to have a more controlled possession when they did win it.  Unfortunaely the simple facts are that we are not that good.  As Evald sais the sudden expectation that a side who couldn't string three passes together against New Caledonia should suddenly be able to do that against Mexico is laughable.

There are a generation of people that jumped on the bandwagon in 2009 and now think that is the norm.  SInce then we have lost Nelsen, Elliot and Brown (our entire competent midfield) and were missing Reid (and to a lesser extent Payne).  The nation and a pile of johnny-come-lately football fans have delusions of adequacy about this side and the depth and quality of footballers we have available.

Last time I checked the U20 players people are advocating start achieved exactly what at the U20 world cup?  This is real football, not kids football yet people are saying that even though they were poor at the U20 world cup they would have been more competitive than the experienced players we used?

Please.

Heaps of reasons.

1: Money money money. Asia will not cut their pie up to suit the island teams - they just do not need more cellar dweller football teams that bring nothing but need cash....

2: What does OFC bring to Asia? Zip zero nada. They bring the AWs and they would sit about 12th in Asia but no more. OFC bring in no money in terms of TV rights, better football, officials. Zip, zero, nada. They certainly bring no political clout so why on gods earth would they want to inherit a confederation that is bankrupt and would block vote everything against the White man (or what would be the Asian man) not to mention is an absolute fucking dogs breakfast on every scale you could use to measure.

 

This is not going to happen in any sense of the word. Seriously, stop with the crazy talk. You know not what you are talking about.

I will also add that many of those calling for Ricki's oimmediatte dismissal couldn't name his assistants let alone a viable alternative to replace him.

Did someone actually say we should have played like Spain or are you making a leap with that one ?

Very few teams have proved able to sit that deep comfortably against a competant opposition, and last time I checked the All Whites certainly aren't in the same league as a Mourinho led Inter or di Matteo's Chelsea, so I would challenge any claim that the tactics were right. At the very least they were not right for the personnel on the field.

Your argument against the U20s seems to be based on an argument that has the entire squad fielded against Mexico at the Azteca which is clearly nonsense. What many are advocating on here is using the U20 players that are already in the All Whites squad instead of unattached players with no form.

Clearly the experience vs youth argument debate has been well and truely put to bed after yesterday's fiasco.

Interesting to note the difference between better, and experienced. We went with the "experienced" players, but were there other better players available, thats what is being argued. We wont know, RIcki picked his faves and they didnt cut it.

I dont think anyone is saying that we have players that match the Mexican one touch skill level JV, only you are doing that to overemphasize your point of view (as you are prone to do)

The disappointing thing for me was the way we let them come to us, it was only a matter of time till they broke through. Who knows what would have happened if we had engaged  and contested further up the field. I agree that with the views that it was hard to watch an NZ team sitting back, and that isnt the way I want to see us play. 

I can see that there is a level of concern on here from some that Ricki not get lambasted too much before the Wellingon match. I will be pleased to see him go after that. It is similar to the Nix scenario, he was past it there and is past it in this arena also. I will add my thanks for all his efforts in the previous campaigns when that thread starts, but for now, I just want his defensive ultra conservative approach gone

You always have a better argument (and you don't by the way) if you are not calling the kettle black.

I agree with you on everything else (although if FIFA gave Asia a fifth automatic spot in the World Cup they couldn't have grounds to object to the Oceania winner joining the last round of Asian qualifying).

But I disagree with your statement the All Whites would sit about 12th in Asia - Asia's not that strong as we proved  in 2009 against their fifth best team in qualifying, Bahrain.

I have yet to see anyone saying it's not time for a change. 

The arguments seem to be that Ricki should be sacked for not playing the U20 squad and not playing like Spain - at altitude in front of 100000 against a side who are light years better than us. Us 'part time fans' don't think that is a fair assessment.

Ridiculous statement.

MANAGER: Brian Turner

Technical Adviser: Raul Blanco

ASSISTANT COACH: Neil Emblem

Goalkeeping Coach: Clint Gosling

Potential viable options off the top of my head:

- Neil Emblem (The obvious candidate)

- Chris Greenacre/Paul Ifill (longer term options perhaps)

- Tony Readings 

 

 Also Emblen is not an option

So you would still back Lochhead and Christies inclusion in the squad yesterday based on nothing more than 'they've played some big games in the past' ?

This

There are plenty of post WC supporters who actually don't really get how poor NZ football is or has been. Drawing against Italy in a WC is NOT the norm. IMO Roux and Tuiloma are certainly too young and inexperianced to have played at the Azteca.

However what really bugs me about the Mexico game is because of some intangible reason know only in Ricki world we chose to leave fully fledged professionals playing in reasonable leagues out of the team. Instead Ricki went back and selected amateurs from the local domestic league....including players that he dropped or would not select for the Nix(Christie, Clapham) I just don't get it....and I guess we will never know why. 

I don't think we could have got even a draw in Mexico but IMO we could have come closer with different players....and a possible 1-3 result would have given us some hope for Wellington.

I know this would never happen under Ricki but personally I would have had Fitzgerald in for Ivan at CB. Fitz is starting J league level....every week marking quick agile players(like the Mexicans). Anyone would have been better than Christie but I would have have gone for Keat as the next best option. He was coming back from injury during the warmups so was not in top form but he recovered and played the full 90 in his pro clubs last two games at the end of October. I would also have played Henderson instead of Brockie. I have watched Henderson this year....he is a good pro, starting and scoring throughout the season. IMO Brockie is not an international class player, low work rate, was invisble again in Mexico. Zero goals in 40??? games says it all. Henderson has a much better range of overall skill.

I guess what I am getting is we had experianced professional players available who may not have won us the game but they would possibly put us in a better position for the second leg.....and non of them are U20's. We did not use our limited player resources as well as we might

What? Yes he is.

Nice piece of exaggeration
It is way more complex, and going back to the whole selection and preparation of the side.
Sacked, probably not
Contract not renewed, yes

Nice piece of exaggeration
It is way more complex, and going back to the whole selection and preparation of the side.
Sacked, probably not
Contract not renewed, yes

No ... if someone on this board says he's not an option then that rules him out

:))

I'm not sure what point you are arguing Hep. No one is saying his contract should be renewed...

Another thought - how much blame does Ricki shoulder for the OFCNC debacle? All this talk about our poor preparation and lack of meaningful games wouldn't be happening if we'd played in the Confederations Cup. We could spend months on hypotheticals but surely 3 matches against top quality sides would have helped our preparation no end. Why didn't we play them? Because we lost to New Caledonia in a tournament where our most experienced striker was playing defensive mid for the first time in his life

 

Look I will be glad to see the back of him as well. I think there is a bus load of football folk that are queued up behind me and I know I am not first in the queue either. He has done his time but his time is over. Its disappointing its come to this in terms of results and todays press articles (where I think he embarrasses himself) but he has had some cracking moments as national coach too. They are sadly stories in the past.

 

It was hard watching it all but again, what did people expect. We push higher, they exploit the gaps in behind (as has been pointed out). It was not a good watch but then look who we are playing and what did we actually expect. This was always going to be a hiding to nothing regardless of tactics or personnel - we just got the hiding!

I think there is an opportunity for Ricki to redeem himself before he leaves (which according to todays press, it now interesting yet again) by putting out that young exciting team we want to see. There is nothing in the game so NZ will be afforded the ability to play a bit more than what we did at Azteca before it went 3-0. I think its a case of wait and see what he puts out before tossing him to the wolves. If he was a smart guy, he'd help himself and put out the team we have all talked about. If not, then he deserves all the brick bats going his way and I will happily help others lob them as well.