It's almost impressive how NZF manage to make themselves look so incompetent with every major decision they make. In this case they went out of their way to make themselves look stupid. All they needed to do was do the bare minimum in terms of communication and they would have come out looking way better.
If they had simply not said anything about any of their candidates and then announced Darren today I really don't think anyone would have a problem with that apart from it maybe being a boring appointment.
It's almost impressive how NZF manage to make themselves look so incompetent with every major decision they make. In this case they went out of their way to make themselves look stupid. All they needed to do was do the bare minimum in terms of communication and they would have come out looking way better.
If they had simply not said anything about any of their candidates and then announced Darren today I really don't think anyone would have a problem with that apart from it maybe being a boring appointment.
or they could jhave just announced Darren from the get go instead of screwing around the initial applicants and us.
Off the top of my head I cant think of a decision NZF have made that was as short sighted as this one. It is quite simply one of the most disappointing things I have seen in a long time, losing Buckingham. I still dont understand why there wasnt an effort to keep him involved here in NZ at some level. imanixsupporter
The decision to choose Hay over Des continues to cost us and will for years to come. Easily set us back a decade. There is no hope we can meet or exceed our potential. Just mediocrity and excuses to look forward to.
Ufuk Talay must be smirking ear to ear now and will be relieved that he missed out on this so called opportunity. NZFA are a bunch of gimps, bloody laughable. This debacle makes our code the laughing stock to all the other codes. Will they be accountable to this mess, or blame an inanimate object such as the fax machine. NZFA you bunch of amateurs.
Probably the least unpopular opinion I could make, but I would be significantly more at peace with this decision if it didn't take eleven fudgeing months and multiple blows to our reputation to reach
Think we've actually been playing ok these last few games but jeez the whole selection process has been ridiculous.
The All Whites performances under him I don't mind. Its the U20 wc performances that scare me
Yes, I feel for some of the players in the current All Whites squad as I see this appointment as an easy option for NZF who have no forward thinking. It looks like the UK-expats have the upper hand in NZF. Why do we still select coaches who lack experience. He was an assistant coach under Hay only a few years ago. Would NZR select a coach for the All Blacks with the same experience? I think not. I have also heard the current U20 team suffered from baffling decision making and bad player selections. I can only wonder if NZF actually did a review after the U20 WC and felt that he did a good job. In all his interviews after the losses he always said the other team was better and that it was a learning experience for the boys. Not once did he say, we should have done this or done that. His tactical knowledge is questionable, as we saw nothing in the WC. Do you think Pragnell will resign if NZ do not qualify for the next WC? This is just frustrating and incompetence NZF
Same old NZF. I don't think they could be more of a laughing stock if they tried to. I'm not even mad because I fully expected this level of incompetence.
I mean shrug Canada and FIFA and Harry Redknapp and … Now let’s play some football!
To play Devils Advocate here over who wasnt appointed, Des etc.
How do we know that they were not aggressively chased with all sorts of offers put on the table that were turned down?
This is NZF we're talking about. They'd love you to believe that I'm sure but please don't - they're quite useless and have proved it time and time again.
The most likely situation is that they probably just waited and eventually gave up despite clearly being strung along
It's been reported Bazeley, Talay, Herdman, Buckingham plus some low profile Scottish age group coach were the 5 short listed candidates. Talay we know had an interview.
News was that Herdman & then Buckingham were made offers. In that order I think. But both knocked back NZ. Is no reason to think that is incorrect. And hardly surprising given one is coaching a WC 2026 cohost, within a Confed that has lots of meaningful games plus took them to their first WC in 36 years. He's on what $CDN750K/year. The other is inside the moneyed City Group, and even rumoured to have been on the vacant Celtic gaffer shortlist. Bucks might have even used any NZF offer, to get a pay rise at Mumbai City. Can't blame him if he did.
It's all been a PR mess for Pragnell & NZF. But disregarding that shambles it's hardly surprising it's Bazeley last man standing. Appointing Talay I think would have been a mistake.
So frigging underwhelmed. We are 99% going to the WC from here on out and yet we can't attract anyone better? That post further up about NZ and mediocrity really resonated with me. What a "meh" kind of appointment and how disappointing to be fed a bunch of lies by Pragnell and NZF, for months, as if we were a bunch of school kids - GGF!!
Think we've actually been playing ok these last few games but jeez the whole selection process has been ridiculous.
The All Whites performances under him I don't mind. Its the U20 wc performances that scare me
Yes, I feel for some of the players in the current All Whites squad as I see this appointment as an easy option for NZF who have no forward thinking. It looks like the UK-expats have the upper hand in NZF. Why do we still select coaches who lack experience. He was an assistant coach under Hay only a few years ago. Would NZR select a coach for the All Blacks with the same experience? I think not. I have also heard the current U20 team suffered from baffling decision making and bad player selections. I can only wonder if NZF actually did a review after the U20 WC and felt that he did a good job. In all his interviews after the losses he always said the other team was better and that it was a learning experience for the boys. Not once did he say, we should have done this or done that. His tactical knowledge is questionable, as we saw nothing in the WC. Do you think Pragnell will resign if NZ do not qualify for the next WC? This is just frustrating and incompetence NZF
I mean come on. You can’t compare this to NZ Rugby. An organization with a product in international demand. And even they appointed Ian Foster.
If there was no NZ football team tomorrow almost no one outside NZ would bat an eyelid, which is not the case with the rugby.
We have very low pulling power. In terms of aspiring coaches Des is about where we should be attracting coaching talent. But we couldn’t land him so we’ve got Bazeley. It’s not the worst possible outcome.
What I really wanna know is where’s our Ange? That’s our best chance of getting a top quality coach- producing one.
Appointing Talay would’ve been interesting, but you feel he and some of the players had walked as far as their respective roads would take them together. Talay would have had something of an unknown factor.
Let’s see how Bazeball goes. It’ll be great just to have some AW footy.
I'd say Tribulietx is the closest we have had to an Ange. Sure not a Kiwi but spent at least a decade in NZ, and made his name in Godzone with an all dominant team playing possession football. Like Ange a bit revolutionary for the time & place. A little odd his coaching career hasn't kicked on somewhere. Maybe the mooted new Auckland ALM team will look at him. And I'd be curious seeing how Hay would go in the A League.
So frigging underwhelmed. We are 99% going to the WC from here on out and yet we can't attract anyone better? That post further up about NZ and mediocrity really resonated with me. What a "meh" kind of appointment and how disappointing to be fed a bunch of lies by Pragnell and NZF, for months, as if we were a bunch of school kids - GGF!!
From what i recall (and being in one 60s, recall is not as reliable as it was) a few players, including Chris Wood, have gone public in backing Bazeley for the job. That suggests they don't agree with you
We can safely say we've now found our status and position in the football world - middling to low average, with certain insurmountable defects. Like any football culture we have some ebbs (82, 99, 2010), and some drop offs too, but ultimately there's a level, an equilibrium, that is rested on - and that's where we find ourselves now.
We have a lot of people who like our sport and play it, especially children - and that is awesome, especially if they have positive experiences and develop a life habit of exercise and team sports. If they're good enough to want to progress to elite or representative level, they'll encounter some really good people and some cool opportunities, but also a larger number of barriers based on ego, politics and pettiness. If they get really good, and have the chance to play the sport professionally, they'll learn very quickly exactly where NZ sits.
We have people who follow and support our sport - a decent number, but in reality ranking about 4th or 5th nationally when things like merchandise, ticketing and media consumption are taken into account. We like to think we're a lot bigger than we are, but we're not. Nonetheless, that won't stop people in our sport complaining about how unfairly it gets treated.
Both of these aspects are middle to low average. They're not appalling, but they're not amazing either. They're just where it's at. And today's announcement sums this up perfectly. The organisation making the appointment is definitely not amazing, but also objectively not appalling - just very, very average. And they've settled on a coach who is not amazing, but also not appalling. There are grounds to argue their communications process has been unacceptable - and insulted the intelligence of the group that follows their sport - but in the end everything has just settled in as decidedly average.
We have some very good players in our national squad. And some who aren't very good. Some more good ones will appear, and so will other not good ones. Some years, the good ones might be enough to make a decent starting lineup that earns some pleasing results - and that'll be great fun. But the cycle will revert to the equilibrium level, and we'll be average again.
I've never met Mr Bazeley, and have no knowledge of him personally. I don't doubt he's hard working and professional, and people say he's a nice man. As a fan, looking from the outside, his record and approach does little to make me think this is anything other than another default to average. It's not his fault the organisation is so average - he didn't make them offer him this job. But overall, just, yeh, average.
So I'm no angry - because I can't get angry if an organisation has acted in accordance with its nature and position in the world. It's all just average.
In terms of credibility with the NZ football community, NZF have to explain to us how we got to this appointment. They need to explain why we don’t have their number 1 choice and if they try and say DB was always the front runner - explain what all that other bullshark was.
What we could expect realistically is a coach who really shines and excels locally. Instead we get a coach who got a job initially at NZF because he used to play football and had an English accent, and then stuck around until this job came up. At least Hay won the nz national league with a very young side and he wasn't favourite to do so.
There is no reason to be optimistic or excited about his reign. If you've ever watched any of his u20 teams, you'll know exactly why we couldn't believe what we were seeing out of Des' u20s. The only hope is that the team can do a good job of coaching themselves.
I cannot believe he coached us to a 4-1 thumping against a completely second string Sweden, whose first team got soundly beaten by Austria a couple days later, and then gets given the job. It is going to be 3 years of losing to any team better than us (and forget rankings, China outranked us but were inferior) and then Darren whining about how we had no chance, they're better than us.
Not the glamour signing we were hoping for. Realistically I'm sure feedback from the playing group would have swung this decision in Bazely's favour. It would seem the players rate him and to be honest I haven't had too many gripes with the way we've played under his tenure so far. That same attacking intent and pride in wearing the jersey we got used to under Hay except with actual goals this time. Realistically the stakes are so low for the All Whites over the next 18 months it's not the end of the world that we've ended up with a predictable run of the mill selection. The performances with U20 sides and whole appointmdnt process leave a lot to be desired however.
But yeah reserving judgement for now. Just pleased we finally have an appointment made after all the hoo-hah. Now time for the side to knuckle down and hopefully turn up some good results in the build up to the next WC.
Not the glamour signing we hoped for? You mean not the glamour signing we were promised! Playersw rate him because he's letting them run the show. The team literally has nothing to lose except to an Pacific Island nation.
It will all come down to what teams we get to face in the next few years.
"The B787-8 was nearly at full capacity, with only 20 of 252 seats unused. Ten All Whites enjoyed the business compartment (mostly Sunday's starting XI, though some players shared time), but most of the players and staff were in "cattle" class.
It showed the less than glamourous realities of international sport. Goalkeeper Oli Sail – the tallest member of the squad – had to contort his legs to fit in as he chatted next to Wellington Phoenix teammate Tim Payne, with a polite Japanese woman blissfully unaware of the status of those sharing her row."
Great to be with All Whites on journey from Barcelona to Doha, as the countdown begins.
A fascinating behind the scenes experience.
(Good team unity too, as some players swapped their business class seats with others halfway through...)https://t.co/INrpI6lFdG
Realistically NZF was always going to struggle to get a big name coach.
We play in Oceania. We have limited funds. Our team is average. We have no star quality. (Wood doesn't stand up comparatively internationally)
And comments around the WC carrot are over rated. 48 teams qualify now. There a lot more interesting sides out there than ours.
And despite the speculation, serious $$ was put on the table, but wasn't enough to hide the above facts and reality.
I don't know...I disagree. You see lots of big names taking over fairly average African or Asian teams purely for a chance to go to a WC...surely someone decent (and better than Baz) would have put their name forward. Sure, they wouldn't know the NZ domestic or A-League set up as well as the new coach, but you'd wager their superior pedigree and experience would have made up for it. Besides, plenty of time to scout local, overseas and A-League Kiwis while doing this job.
To me this appointment just reeks of lack of ambition on the part of NZF. Be bold, put your money where you mouth is and get the best person for the job, not the one that feels the safest. We're going be on the world's biggest stage in 3.5 years, let's start acting accordingly.
Realistically NZF was always going to struggle to get a big name coach.
We play in Oceania. We have limited funds. Our team is average. We have no star quality. (Wood doesn't stand up comparatively internationally)
And comments around the WC carrot are over rated. 48 teams qualify now. There a lot more interesting sides out there than ours.
And despite the speculation, serious $$ was put on the table, but wasn't enough to hide the above facts and reality.
I don't know...I disagree. You see lots of big names taking over fairly average African or Asian teams purely for a chance to go to a WC...surely someone decent (and better than Baz) would have put their name forward. Sure, they wouldn't know the NZ domestic or A-League set up as well as the new coach, but you'd wager their superior pedigree and experience would have made up for it. Besides, plenty of time to scout local, overseas and A-League Kiwis while doing this job.
To me this appointment just reeks of lack of ambition on the part of NZF. Be bold, put your money where you mouth is and get the best person for the job, not the one that feels the safest. We're going be on the world's biggest stage in 3.5 years, let's start acting accordingly.
Yes but often other average, even poor countries ain't adverse at all in spending large on an overseas coach. Gareca at Peru (not an average team) was on a reported $USD3.7M ($NZD6M) per year. That's an obscene amount of money compared to an average Peruvian salary. We operate a bit differently in this part of the world. Until the AWs qualify for the 2026 WC and NZF get their $15M windfall or whatever it will be, the national body needs to watch their pennies. From memory every time the team get together for an international window it can cost in the range of $200-$500K.
It's been a nearly 12 month recruitment process. If some 'standout' (other than Herdman) had applied, and been in NZF's affordability range it would have happened by now.
Pragnell has made some stupid statements through this saga, but there are also big limitations on who NZF could actually hire. Bazeley is the uninspiring low risk bet, punting on another Hudson or Schmid the risker option.
They are being conducted online with Pragnell, NZ Football’s new high performance manager Keir Hansen and representatives from the board and the players’ association who Pragnell wouldn’t identify comprising the interview panel and two current All Whites he wouldn’t identify sitting in as observers.
Realistically NZF was always going to struggle to get a big name coach.
We play in Oceania. We have limited funds. Our team is average. We have no star quality. (Wood doesn't stand up comparatively internationally)
And comments around the WC carrot are over rated. 48 teams qualify now. There a lot more interesting sides out there than ours.
And despite the speculation, serious $$ was put on the table, but wasn't enough to hide the above facts and reality.
I don't know...I disagree. You see lots of big names taking over fairly average African or Asian teams purely for a chance to go to a WC...surely someone decent (and better than Baz) would have put their name forward. Sure, they wouldn't know the NZ domestic or A-League set up as well as the new coach, but you'd wager their superior pedigree and experience would have made up for it. Besides, plenty of time to scout local, overseas and A-League Kiwis while doing this job.
To me this appointment just reeks of lack of ambition on the part of NZF. Be bold, put your money where you mouth is and get the best person for the job, not the one that feels the safest. We're going be on the world's biggest stage in 3.5 years, let's start acting accordingly.
Yes but often other average, even poor countries ain't adverse at all in spending large on an overseas coach. Gareca at Peru (not an average team) was on a reported $USD3.7M ($NZD6M) per year. That's an obscene amount of money compared to an average Peruvian salary. We operate a bit differently in this part of the world. Until the AWs qualify for the 2026 WC and NZF get their $15M windfall or whatever it will be, the national body needs to watch their pennies. From memory every time the team get together for an international window it can cost in the range of $200-$500K.
It's been a nearly 12 month recruitment process. If some 'standout' (other than Herdman) had applied, and been in NZF's affordability range it would have happened by now.
Pragnell has made some stupid statements through this saga, but there are also big limitations on who NZF could actually hire. Bazeley is the uninspiring low risk bet, punting on another Hudson or Schmid the risker option.
They are being conducted online with Pragnell, NZ Football’s new high performance manager Keir Hansen and representatives from the board and the players’ association who Pragnell wouldn’t identify comprising the interview panel and two current All Whites he wouldn’t identify sitting in as observers.
Is it perhaps safe to assume that the interview process of those former and current All Whites didn't result in them saying "hire Darren Bazeley" - otherwise it would've happened straight away?
You would assume so. If Bazely was the #1 candidate he wouldn't have been sent packing with Talay and the others in the fist interview phase. We have literally hired our second or third choice manager. I wonder if he really feels honoured to getting the job because he was the last option that was still available.
Maybe it was more lets see how he goes in the March & June windows first, without domineering Uncle Danny there in charge. Can he stamp his own mark on the team, as the head gaffer?
It's not unrealistic for Wood & Bell plus other senior players to be thinking along those lines. Apart from the age group stuff, all Bazeley's coaching experience with men has been as an assistant. Hudson with AWs & Colorado in MLS, plus AWs with Hay. Different being the main man. More responsibility, more pressure.
It's bloody obvious DB wasn't NZF's 1st or 2nd choice. The wallflower. But seemingly no one better has applied, who hasn't then spat their cup of tea out their nose when NZF's mentioned the salary.
My initial thoughts are: John Herdman would have been great and can see why NZF were holding out for him initially, but in the mean time Darren Bazeley has done a decent job as interim and they had to move on eventually. Thought they were very good in the first 45 v Qatar. https://t.co/FpLyPyRoTp
You would assume so. If Bazely was the #1 candidate he wouldn't have been sent packing with Talay and the others in the fist interview phase. We have literally hired our second or third choice manager. I wonder if he really feels honoured to getting the job because he was the last option that was still available.
I'm sure it sucked not getting the call first time, but when you get your chance you grab it with both hands.
As with most jobs you can still be an almost perfect fit for a job but someone slightly better was in the miz. There is only 1 head coach job so chances of being edged are higher.
Now he's got it, it's his chance to prove he should have been a contender in the first place.
"...the Herald understands that there was ongoing dialogue with both Herdman and Buckingham between the March and June windows."
Would be fascinating to hear more detail about this ongoing dialogue. The article doesn't say anything beyond that it was happening. I can't imagine how it was possible that they were both genuinely still in the mix until even very recently, but I don't think Burgess uses that "the Herald understands" wording unless he is quite certain that dialogue was happening.
Well both of them are contracted so you've expect that dialogue would have been about how much money it would cost NZF to get either out of their contract and how close NZF could get to matching salaries.
