Any particular reason why you "predicted" it? As opposed to wildly speculating, or wishful thinking it? Any reason why he'd leave a Canada setup in which he is very much wanted and has declared his desire to stay til 2026, to come to NZ for less money and worse game opportunities?
We are ahead of China as a footballing nation right now and friendly results should never be used as a barometer for ability
"We are ahead of China as a footballing nation right now..." What is that based on? Our lack of ability to qualify for the last 3 world cups or the fact we do not have any players starting for any top team in any of the top leagues anywhere in the world? Also if we can "never" use friendlies as a barometer for ability, should we then use World Cup qualifiers against Oceania? In the last 5 all whites matches they have not been able to score, is that not a good indicator of ability? They could not score against Costa Rica and they could not score against anyone else in a friendly. So what exactly is the barometer for NZ footballing performance? China drew with Australia, Saudi Arabia and Oman during World Cup qualifying scoring in all the games. Seriously, how are we ahead of them?
It was based on the statement of NZF that said the finalists all had a current connection to NZ football. So, Herdman’s son is still playing in/for NZ which made me think the connection is still strong, that is on top of the fact that Herdman was the architect of ( cant remember the name now) of our junior development programme - small sided games etc and I think he might be the most qualified of the NZ linked coaches globally. He also hadn’t been mentioned by any pundits or media up to that point. While not exactly empirically based, there was a bit of thought behind my call. Just as robust as the shouts for other contenders.imanixsupporter
Any particular reason why you "predicted" it? As opposed to wildly speculating, or wishful thinking it? Any reason why he'd leave a Canada setup in which he is very much wanted and has declared his desire to stay til 2026, to come to NZ for less money and worse game opportunities?
Good enough shout I guess, I was just looking for any reason at all to be optimistic. He'd be a real coup for NZF, just can't see it happening. I'm going to try and expect Bazeley, don't want to be let down.
Bazeley is a good guy to have in the broader national team setup and around the age group teams... that said, Imma scream if they give him the big job.
I've heard from people who've had meetings with Bazeley that he's a bit 'weak' and can be a bit of a yes-man. Given NZF seem to have placed a lot of criticism of Hay on not really wanting to collaborate with others at NZF, being a malleable yes-man might be advantageous for Bazeley. He's also been around the camp and worked with the players previously both as assistant and also head coach to many at U20 level and with Wood and Bell both part of the process, that could also fall in his favour.
He did take back-to-back U20 squads to the Round of 16 at the World Cup, when no NZ team had ever gone past the group before. The teams also featured far less career professional experience (first team club + All Whites minutes) than Buckingham's team in 2019. In 2015 there were 1,626 career minutes across seven players, with only Tuiloma and Ridenton having more than 500, in 2017 there were 2,302, with Ingham and Cameron having more than 500. 2019's squad featured 6,915 professional minutes played, and that's despite Dane Ingham (1,998 minutes alone) missing the tournament with injury.
In 2017 his side finished second in the group behind a stacked France squad, featuring the likes of Allan St Maximin - who scored both goals against NZ - Christopher Nkunku, Marcus Thuram, Amine Harit, Martin Terrier, Lucas Tousart etc. They beat Bazeley's side 2-0, just as Uruguay beat Buckingham's 2-0, and both coaches beat the third-placed side by two goals. Bazeley drew against bottom-placed by Vietnam, whereas Buckingham won 5-0 against Honduras of course, but that Honduras also conceded 19 goals and scored none - far worse than Tahiti, Vanuatu and Fiji have managed in the last three tournaments.
In qualifying for this year's U20 tournament, his team scored 33 and conceded none, which are both unprecedented for a New Zealand U20 team, the previous best was scoring 22 goals. On goals per game, it equals the record of 5.5 set in 2011 qualifying.
I'm not exactly the biggest fan of Bazeley either, but these are facts and these are things Bazeley is likely to allude to in his application. U20 accomplishments don't equate to senior level, but a lot of that work was with players who will be in the All Whites squad the coming three years and, after all, Buckingham's people's favourite position was based off U20 results. If the players want continuity and familiarity then it's not impossible, especially as finances - or lack thereof - will be a factor with guys like Herdman or Nevin.
Excellent analysis Carlind. I think the findings of the Mckinnon report that Pragnell seems to be putting a great emphasis on, certainly help Bazeley’s case.
I hope the feedback from Nelsen, Wood & Bell (who all sat in on the interviews) carries as much weight, if not more than that report though. As Nellie said when the report came out, the AWs (and Ferns for that matter) are unique environments for NZ sports teams. Players from all over the world coming together for a few days. You shouldn't be making straight line comparisons to the All Blacks, Black Caps or whoever
That can make the skillset required to be a successful AWs coach a bit unique, which some independent sport consultant's report won't fully capture.
I think it is a bit of revisionist history to equate Bazeley's performance as u20 world cup coach to Des's. I'd remind everyone that Des rung the changes for the Uruguay game as it was the last group game, and only played our first choice centre backs, because we'd won our first two in an impressively dominant manner and had already qualified. We didn't look anything like that under Bazeley. That's why we were all so excited by Des. We were used to being battlers at that level. Des' team looked like they more than belonged.
Another reason everybody rates Des is because he took over a second string u23 team at the last minute and won the Pacific Games football tournament in challenging island conditions, with all of the other teams being senior sides.
Bazeley is a good guy to have in the broader national team setup and around the age group teams... that said, Imma scream if they give him the big job.
Bazeley is a good guy to have working the food truck outside the match venue. Even then he would probably only work with one up front and cause frustration and anger among the growing line of supporters.
yeah, NZF need to be looking at the future of the mens game, we can't be hiring a coach who is gonna play 5 at the back long ball as their primary tactic. We have the players with the skillests to be creative an play in hat way against most teams we meet. Of the 5/6 names that have been shortlisted I'd like to hope that they all arent just old boring farts that "know" NZ football but that's all they know. I wasnt someone with vision and future thinking.
If Anthony Hudson can coach the US men's team, surely I can coach the NZ team (played social football at school a few times 20 years back).
He did give us a draw against South American opposition in a World Cup Qualifier. He also had 2 competitive games against Mexico where we scored both times and only lost 1-2 on both occasions including leading them 1-0 at halftime at a Confed Cup. He also drew against the USA 1-1 in Washington D.C. His squad was not as good as what Hay had available. So if you can produce results like this I would say throw your hat in the ring but maybe first for the Phoenix women as you are too late for NZ.
These delays might indicate the job is going to someone employed outside of the game in NZ, otherwise why haven’t they been named? Perhaps the job was Des’ but his late withdrawal meant they had to go back to the well? Or he got wind that he wasn’t going to get the job, so pulled out. What are the details of Herdman’s contract with the Cannucks?
These delays might indicate the job is going to someone employed outside of the game in NZ, otherwise why haven’t they been named? Perhaps the job was Des’ but his late withdrawal meant they had to go back to the well? Or he got wind that he wasn’t going to get the job, so pulled out. What are the details of Herdman’s contract with the Cannucks?
I agree or possibly Tribulietx getting released from Budapest.
These delays might indicate the job is going to someone employed outside of the game in NZ, otherwise why haven’t they been named? Perhaps the job was Des’ but his late withdrawal meant they had to go back to the well? Or he got wind that he wasn’t going to get the job, so pulled out. What are the details of Herdman’s contract with the Cannucks?
I agree or possibly Tribulietx getting released from Budapest.
Is a free agent right now, left Budapest a couple months ago. He's defo a possibility for AWs
I think it is quite likely that it is Talay. The delay could very well be negotiating a coach sharing agreement with the nix. Also I didn't hear it but someone on these forums said they heard the new all whites coach appointment process had run into complications from the commentators of the Brisbane/nix game. How would Aussie commentators have any insight into the process unless word is going round a-league circles if it isn't Talay?
I don't think the commentators were anymore in the know than we are when they used the phrase "complications" I think it was just their way of pointing out we were supposed to have an announcement last Friday but has been delayed/there's no news yet. Probably while leaning into the theory Des Buckingham was the preferred choice but then City Football Group jumped in and nabbed him first, and now NZF have gone back to the drawing board.
All that said though I would be pretty pleased if you're correct. I'm still in the "oh yeah wouldn't mind uffie. Could be a bit of fun" camp
I didn't hear the way the commentators spoke about it so can't be sure how much to read into that. I'd have preferred Des, Ramon or herdman (however unlikely) but would prefer Talay to Bazeley. I think Talay is a bit inflexible tactically and also takes too long to get a team gelling and firing for an international coach, but wouldn't be despaired if he gets it. I think he is a decent a-league level coach and might adapt to the international game better than I'd think he would.
One big benefit of him getting the job would be greater potential for senior all whites to come back to nz & the nix for a few years as their careers run down. He can get in the ear of the likes of Ryan Thomas/Chris wood a bit more, who knows.
Edit: also, no more back 5 nonsense would be seen under uffie at least
Theres no way Ufuk Talay fits into the McKinnon report.
I'd say the wait is for Herdman. If he doesn't get contact renewed with Canada he will have to take a pay cut but the guy just loves a major tournament so we are an attractive proposition to him.
If we don't get Herdman - it will be names into the hat with the other 3.
Yipe if Herdman was for some reason released by Canada, I'd say he'd be looking at a move into the UK club scene. He's English, so why not there as the next challenge. He's made a name for himself topping CONCACAF qualifying - unheard of for Canada.
Or a gig in the MLS. If Huddo could get one, then sure as hell Herdman could.
That verus coaching a team, who's next competitive game is in 2 years verus American Samoa.
People close to Herdman will tell you that he prefers to coach international football. Day n Day out club football apparently not of a real interest to him. You get some people like that sometimes, sometimes more suited to camp based and tournament football. Look if he doesn't get the Canada job again he will have a few other International offers but we can't forget we basically have a free ride to the next world cup and he and his family love NZ. We have potential to improve and with some young talent coming through and i think he thrives on those types of challenges. There's a chance he might take it on.
I don't think it is a "if Herdman gets the Canada job", I think it is his if he wants it, the only reason we would get Herdman is if he has had enough of Canada and wants to come back to NZ despite the fact it would mean a big paycut. Super unlikely, but it's fun to dream while we can
I don't think it is a "if Herdman gets the Canada job", I think it is his if he wants it, the only reason we would get Herdman is if he has had enough of Canada and wants to come back to NZ despite the fact it would mean a big paycut. Super unlikely, but it's fun to dream while we can
Yes I agree. Would be weird to not off the job to the guy who got you to the first World Cup in 36 years and he will probably feel there is some unfinished business as they did not perform as well as they could of in Qatar.
Currently on .7m Canadian, so he is affordable. I would think Canada might be additionally attractive as they are co-hosting the next WC. I also see he is contracted until after that. So there are a few hurdles, not withstanding he might not actually be interested in returning to us.
I didn't realise Herdman was contracted until the next WC cycle?? That to me fully rules him out of the AW job. He could be having a home WC, with a far more talented squad. Why would he want to come here? To me our only chance was if he was out of a job and wanted an easy gig getting to the WC, and spend 4 years improving this side so we don't get smashed when we get there.
Currently on .7m Canadian, so he is affordable. I would think Canada might be additionally attractive as they are co-hosting the next WC. I also see he is contracted until after that. So there are a few hurdles, not withstanding he might not actually be interested in returning to us.
$CDN700K is $NZD870K - a long way from being affordable for NZF. They need to watch their pennies over the next 4 years, having missed out on a $NZ16M approx FIFA payday, with AWs losing to Costa Rica.
May have this wrong but I think I read somewhere Hay was on $250K.
As others have said we need to be realistic, as to what NZF can afford and where the lowly AWs role sits in the world football coaching totem pole. It will go to someone looking to climb up or get on the ladder, whilst for someone like Herdman it would be a big step down.
He said that while also saying it'd be announced by the 13th so that it wouldn't overshadow the buildup to the Ferns games. I hope they've got the news ready to release on Monday but there's been no hint of an announcement being imminent
On the bright side, we’ve had another week of mindless speculation and optimism before 80% of get to complain that NZFootball have yet again made the wrong choice.
