Should also consider what effect this might have on winning OFC Champions League. While we might be able to equalise (and I think that it will more liklely weaken AC than bring everyone one else up to their level) some of the Island teams are spending reasonable money on attracting imports to play and win the thing, what could be do to prevent that scenario? Now if there is money out there for that, why not an OFC League with the carrot of world club cup qualification?
National League review and future
Should also consider what effect this might have on winning OFC Champions League. While we might be able to equalise (and I think that it will more liklely weaken AC than bring everyone one else up to their level) some of the Island teams are spending reasonable money on attracting imports to play and win the thing, what could be do to prevent that scenario? Now if there is money out there for that, why not an OFC League with the carrot of world club cup qualification?
You are right in that is does paper over the cracks but then again there are 2 scenarios
1: a national league built with CWC money
2: a national league built without CWC money
The reality is, that with out that money, the league does not hold its own. The one year that Amicale got there, NZF cut the rounds from 3 to 2 and all the other drama around it. Look at the noise made about not getting the cash for Confederations Cup and the failure to qualify via Honiara. If they had spent $500k to host ONC, they would have gotten back $1.3m covering that and things could be different. NZF run on an oily rag and the league does not have enough attendance (and you can read into that - interest) to get sponsors or viewership via any medium. NZF count cash before they get it and that year Amicale went and the year Tahiti went to Confeds, they budgeted for that money before they got it. For that reason alone, as much as it does paper over the cracks and in light of any other viable solution that may be out there and we have not thought of, CWC cash is important. It does put into the spotlight how NZF (in the past under previous CEOs) do their maths.
One of the ACFC supporters' beefs is that the CWC money that NZF get from the club's efforts - about $400,000 plus last year? Or more? should all be going back to the ASB Prem one way or another. Not just the amount the other clubs are currently getting
Should also consider what effect this might have on winning OFC Champions League. While we might be able to equalise (and I think that it will more liklely weaken AC than bring everyone one else up to their level) some of the Island teams are spending reasonable money on attracting imports to play and win the thing, what could be do to prevent that scenario? Now if there is money out there for that, why not an OFC League with the carrot of world club cup qualification?
I think given Martin's comments they see ACFC as very much the model in terms of level and organisation that others should follow. Don't expect anything to be introduced that looks to cut their legs off at all. Gaming money is a feature of sport in NZ and right or wrong that system isn't gong anywhere, so clubs will need to use that as best as possible
Trust money is another issue. But basics are: The trust must return the money to the area it was collected in.
More Auckland clubs franchises then another solution.
Should also consider what effect this might have on winning OFC Champions League. While we might be able to equalise (and I think that it will more liklely weaken AC than bring everyone one else up to their level) some of the Island teams are spending reasonable money on attracting imports to play and win the thing, what could be do to prevent that scenario? Now if there is money out there for that, why not an OFC League with the carrot of world club cup qualification?
I think given Martin's comments they see ACFC as very much the model in terms of level and organisation that others should follow. Don't expect anything to be introduced that looks to cut their legs off at all. Gaming money is a feature of sport in NZ and right or wrong that system isn't gong anywhere, so clubs will need to use that as best as possible
You say you're five mins from North Shore. And it's the Auckland north shore that is probably the worst area in NZ for club rivalry/factionalism, i.e.in its inablity to get its act together to form an ASB franchise - as I believe the Shore clubs were invited to do at the start.
Could be, I know nothing about football in Auckland. but I've always thought there should be 4 Auckland teams
Could be, I know nothing about football in Auckland. but I've always thought there should be 4 Auckland teams
Shame. You're missing stuff.
Interesting thoughts on here regarding the league.
Disclaimer yes I'm an ACFC Fan.
The talk of distributing the funds wider in the league is an unusual proposition should we not be setting the goal of raising the other teams fund raising ability to compete and thus increasing the funds in the league as a whole, rather than taking the funding from successful clubs and giving them to the less successful clubs?
Would it not be better to take the existing successful clubs business/Funding model and implement it in other regions? While it would not be a panecea for everything in the league it would be much more aspirational than taking the status quo and just dividing it up.
I would love to see a competitive league with the level of football raised but i don't think diluting the talent/money pool is the answer?
What is the answer?
The Beyond football Doc has some interesting points, Before i get Jumped on i am no Fan of NZF's management and struggle to think they could actually successfully pull it off.
6.6 extending the league to 10 teams/ 3 rounds/No wanderers and inviting some island teams to compete may have it's merits in terms of TV/Sponsorship money which could form the base payment for essentials of the teams then allowing them to fund raise/grant the extras. Given the current model base costs are $585,000 (9x$65,000) plus essentials not sure that TV/Sponsorship would cover it but it would be a start.
One more question, what clubs are well run in the league and who is running them? Which of the clubs that are poorly run are currently being actually being run poorly by NZF?
There's a key point that is really important though, you say "Would it not be better to take the existing successful clubs business/Funding model and implement it in other regions?" and that's true.
But is that actually possible? Clearly Southern and Waikato, the two smallest teams in the league, just can't get access to gaming trust funds in the same way - otherwise they would do it! There's no secrets any more about how ACFC operates so if others can't replicate that, which I think it's fair to assume they can't, what's the solution? Because the league is so uneven that basically it's become a joke. No-one else is getting anywhere near the $800k that ACFC gets from Trillian and there are smart people at (some) of the franchises so it's not through lack of trying.
There is definitely an issue that trust money follows success which entrenches current positions plus there is just more money in the Auckland trusts to be distributed to the extent it is required to be distributed locally.
In some respects the gaming maching funding part is a red herring.
Financial equality is an issue that spans many countries. Having a financially lop-sided league is eventually fatal.
If we're going to try to tweak the current system rather than overhauling it then we're just going to end up with a new version of the past.
Maybe that's fine. Generally sports administrators are only in each job for a short stint, so I'm sure the current croud at NZF will be keen to "revamp" the national league in their image and then will move on to leave volunteers to pick up the pieces.
I am not expecting any meaningful improvement, just a revision and the substitution of some problems for some other problems.
There's a key point that is really important though, you say "Would it not be better to take the existing successful clubs business/Funding model and implement it in other regions?" and that's true.
But is that actually possible? Clearly Southern and Waikato, the two smallest teams in the league, just can't get access to gaming trust funds in the same way - otherwise they would do it! There's no secrets any more about how ACFC operates so if others can't replicate that, which I think it's fair to assume they can't, what's the solution? Because the league is so uneven that basically it's become a joke. No-one else is getting anywhere near the $800k that ACFC gets from Trillian and there are smart people at (some) of the franchises so it's not through lack of trying.
There is definitely an issue that trust money follows success which entrenches current positions plus there is just more money in the Auckland trusts to be distributed to the extent it is required to be distributed locally.
In some respects the gaming maching funding part is a red herring.
Financial equality is an issue that spans many countries. Having a financially lop-sided league is eventually fatal.
If we're going to try to tweak the current system rather than overhauling it then we're just going to end up with a new version of the past.
Maybe that's fine. Generally sports administrators are only in each job for a short stint, so I'm sure the current croud at NZF will be keen to "revamp" the national league in their image and then will move on to leave volunteers to pick up the pieces.
I am not expecting any meaningful improvement, just a revision and the substitution of some problems for some other problems.
Ain't this the disappointing likely outcome, though? However I have a feeling NZF's 'smorgasboard of stupidness' will be looking for a sea-change approach.
[/quote]Don't want to get too bogged down but the Waikato BOP area is probably has the 2nd largest population in the Country, based on that there must be heaps of gaming funds available in the pot.
The fact that Trillion alone gives them X amount of money which is infinitely higher that all other charity trust funds combined for the other teams probably says to me that have found a trust that is sympathetic to football and not tied up with the usual rugby/horse racing crouds. When you consider the amount of trusts, that bloody rare. Is there a trust in each area that is as sympathetic to football as Trillion are? Unlikely. Hence why ACFC succeed and others do not. About 4 years ago it was something like $1.5 million to Central and ACFC combined... Thats just incredible.
In some respects the gaming maching funding part is a red herring.
Financial equality is an issue that spans many countries. Having a financially lop-sided league is eventually fatal.
If we're going to try to tweak the current system rather than overhauling it then we're just going to end up with a new version of the past.
Maybe that's fine. Generally sports administrators are only in each job for a short stint, so I'm sure the current croud at NZF will be keen to "revamp" the national league in their image and then will move on to leave volunteers to pick up the pieces.
I am not expecting any meaningful improvement, just a revision and the substitution of some problems for some other problems.
Which comes back to my point from a while back, if it's not a league that people want to watch then I don't see a future for it. Pokie funding makes it very easy for administrators to slack off because basically they are accountable to no-one.
You are right in that is does paper over the cracks but then again there are 2 scenarios
1: a national league built with CWC money
2: a national league built without CWC money
The reality is, that with out that money, the league does not hold its own. The one year that Amicale got there, NZF cut the rounds from 3 to 2 and all the other drama around it. Look at the noise made about not getting the cash for Confederations Cup and the failure to qualify via Honiara. If they had spent $500k to host ONC, they would have gotten back $1.3m covering that and things could be different. NZF run on an oily rag and the league does not have enough attendance (and you can read into that - interest) to get sponsors or viewership via any medium. NZF count cash before they get it and that year Amicale went and the year Tahiti went to Confeds, they budgeted for that money before they got it. For that reason alone, as much as it does paper over the cracks and in light of any other viable solution that may be out there and we have not thought of, CWC cash is important. It does put into the spotlight how NZF (in the past under previous CEOs) do their maths.
Amicale have never won the OFC Champs
Hekari Utd won it 2 years after the league was reduced.
Ah right. Sorry. I got the 2 of them confused.
I think the one thing we probably all agree on is that the current review will come up with the wrong answer.
Amirite?
Big bucks for the community (to be cont.)
ASB Trust rebrands
"The ASB Community Trust has ended its relationship with the ASB Bank and is rebranding itself as 'Foundation North'................... It gained a further $560 million when the Commonwealth bank bought out the remaining 25 % share in 2000 and its net assets are now valued at $1.1 billion. The Trust ... earned $81.7 million on its investments last year, spending $5.8 million on admin, giving out $34.9 million in grants and saving the rest to support future grants" ... etc
- todays NZ Herald pA14
I think the one thing we probably all agree on is that the current review will come up with the wrong answer.
Amirite?
So. Much. This.
Awaiting for them to announce it will be carried out by Hay and Zoricich, be based a St. Kents and that Hay will be compensated for the salary he would have earnt as U-17 coach.
I think the one thing we probably all agree on is that the current review will come up with the wrong answer.
Amirite?
So. Much. This.
Awaiting for them to announce it will be carried out by Hay and Zoricich, be based a St. Kents and that Hay will be compensated for the salary he would have earnt as U-17 coach.
LOL. Here's the thing though. Andy 'london irish' Martin has, in quick succession, brought in the highly regarded Rob Sherman, and Hudson, who at least has what looks like a plan for the mens' national teams. To date, I rate both of these appointments. I'm going to put it out there now that Martin is looking to shake things up and go for the big fish: a semi-pro national league that runs for a good part of the year. That will be the starting point, because that - more than just about any other thing i can think of - will be the best thing to develop football in nz. Aussie state leagues are the model.
The Barclays Semi-pro League 2015/16 (6 X 4 games plus play-offs)
ACFC
ACFC Reserves
Wellington Phoenix Reserves
Wellington Phoenix Academy
NZ 'A'
NZ Under-17 Devpt. (plus guests)
Team Non-Auckland
I think the one thing we probably all agree on is that the current review will come up with the wrong answer.
Amirite?
Hmm, I'm not sure what the right answer is!
I reckon more likely an 18-20 game winter season with the top 2 clubs from each 'Premier League' playing a single round Nationwide competition after.
Played in front of 20 people and a dog at most venues.
Big bucks for the community (to be cont.)
ASB Trust rebrands
"The ASB Community Trust has ended its relationship with the ASB Bank and is rebranding itself as 'Foundation North'................... It gained a further $560 million when the Commonwealth bank bought out the remaining 25 % share in 2000 and its net assets are now valued at $1.1 billion. The Trust ... earned $81.7 million on its investments last year, spending $5.8 million on admin, giving out $34.9 million in grants and saving the rest to support future grants" ... etc
- todays NZ Herald pA14
I reckon more likely an 18-20 game winter season with the top 2 clubs from each 'Premier League' playing a single round Nationwide competition after.
Played in front of 20 people and a dog at most venues.
a semi-pro national league that runs for a good part of the year. That will be the starting point, because that - more than just about any other thing i can think of - will be the best thing to develop football in nz. Aussie state leagues are the model.
With NZF funding?
They do seem to have a bit more money atm eg. more international friendlies.
+ put all of CWC money back into comp.
Then what happens if we lose to Amicale and no NZ team makes it?
what happens if we lose pokie funding?
what happens if we lose pokie funding?
No Marlboro Motorsport series, No Rothmans rally series, No National league as we knew them. I remember motorsport nz being told with the rally no you will get less funding. Then they told smoke free what they were getting (Fail for smoke free)
What happens if we move to Asia.
What happens if we move to Asia.
Boom let's just do that!
Who's buying the block and Tackle to drag OZstralia closer to Orklund
There's a key point that is really important though, you say "Would it not be better to take the existing successful clubs business/Funding model and implement it in other regions?" and that's true.
But is that actually possible? Clearly Southern and Waikato, the two smallest teams in the league, just can't get access to gaming trust funds in the same way - otherwise they would do it! There's no secrets any more about how ACFC operates so if others can't replicate that, which I think it's fair to assume they can't, what's the solution? Because the league is so uneven that basically it's become a joke. No-one else is getting anywhere near the $800k that ACFC gets from Trillian and there are smart people at (some) of the franchises so it's not through lack of trying.
There is definitely an issue that trust money follows success which entrenches current positions plus there is just more money in the Auckland trusts to be distributed to the extent it is required to be distributed locally.
WaiBOP (correct me if I'm wrong) is being run by the local federation who are hired by NZF......
How many other franchises are run by NZF via local federations?
Hawke's Bay by Central Football
There's been quite a bit of chat over the years about Capital Football taking over TW. But I think the broader club community is against the idea. Lots of expense/debt/cost/risk and unclear benefit.
Mainland run Canterbury Dragons.
Of the following staff the CEO is the Mainland CEO and one of the Dragons Board members is Chair of Mainland fed. Of the staff, admin, team, media, team liaison, ops and mktg are all Mainland employees with roles for Mainland fed. Has it worked? Not this year and never made OFC since instigation (one of its stated goals). By the way, has Sean Devine fallen on his sword yet; or has the Board sacked him?
Should also consider what effect this might have on winning OFC Champions League. While we might be able to equalise (and I think that it will more liklely weaken AC than bring everyone one else up to their level) some of the Island teams are spending reasonable money on attracting imports to play and win the thing, what could be do to prevent that scenario? Now if there is money out there for that, why not an OFC League with the carrot of world club cup qualification?
I think given Martin's comments they see ACFC as very much the model in terms of level and organisation that others should follow. Don't expect anything to be introduced that looks to cut their legs off at all. Gaming money is a feature of sport in NZ and right or wrong that system isn't gong anywhere, so clubs will need to use that as best as possible
ACFC are the model of how to do things in many ways but their heavy reliance on pokie money to recruit players is still massively risky. Gaming money may not be going anywhere soon but Trillion's support of ACFC is such an outlier that I can easily see the trust coming under pressure. The Gaming Act Amendment Bill No 3 will bring in new reporting rules that make the whole system a lot more transparent for starters.