Well ..the one thats only just been formed would have , hmmmm , what sort of success rate ?
Whilst the Pnix have seen what , 3 or 4 go on to greater things ....so probably similar to ACFC Id think ....tho bear in mind the proposed reserves will have even less exposure than the Pnix ....
But training everyday. And in front of a coach of a professional side.
But training everyday. And in front of a coach of a professional side.
A player like Burfoot will be a very interesting test for the 'Nix B concept. As I have said before I'm not actually sure how it will work in practice
I don't see how he can train every day but not get paid - how will he earn money? ACFC train in the mornings and evenings I understand so players can work but Phoenix train during the day. If they are getting paid is that outside the A League salary cap?
Are the Phoenix actually going to pay players? They won't have access to gaming money for a start! Is the pro contract carrot enough? ACFC have supplied more Phoenix players than team Wellington ever have and they have had many opportunities to impress.
What kind of coaching is going to be supplied at the 'nix B, is it going to be a better set up than you would get playing for Ramon at ACFC? Questions, questions...
Normo's coming home
pokie money isn't dependent on the whole competition being amateur from what I believe.
The nix can compensate the players, probably have them on a similar kind of contract that NYL players have in Australia. And the concept will work in a similar way.
Well ..the one thats only just been formed would have , hmmmm , what sort of success rate ?
Whilst the Pnix have seen what , 3 or 4 go on to greater things ....so probably similar to ACFC Id think ....tho bear in mind the proposed reserves will have even less exposure than the Pnix ....
oh the angst if nix B get him would be beautiful.
Spoke to Sammy on Sunday at Kiwitea Street and he's really looking forward to going to the CWC with ACFC in December, so go figure. Only pity is he misses out on the Under 20 World Cup by a year.
Yep , he'd be a bright boy to go for that ....CWC looming and all ....
interesting comment that - this is not anti-acfc. I have an actual question.
How many players who had never been pro before have signed a pro contract after their performances at the CWC?
I'm just trying to figure out which path actually offers the best chance at a pro contract.
For Europe probably CWC offers best chance - Andrea went to Georgia afterwards and Exposito to Belgium. Having a good game against the Nix at Kiwitea Street seems to be your best chance of getting noticed by Ernie down here - Reira and Krishna for instance.
Yep , he'd be a bright boy to go for that ....CWC looming and all ....
interesting comment that - this is not anti-acfc. I have an actual question.
How many players who had never been pro before have signed a pro contract after their performances at the CWC?
I'm just trying to figure out which path actually offers the best chance at a pro contract.
For Europe probably CWC offers best chance - Andrea went to Georgia afterwards and Exposito to Belgium. Having a good game against the Nix at Kiwitea Street seems to be your best chance of getting noticed by Ernie down here - Reira and Krishna for instance.
your probably not wrong - but were those two players not ex pro's or at least semi-pro's before coming to ACFC - I was more looking for which path a young never been a pro player before should take.
Yep , he'd be a bright boy to go for that ....CWC looming and all ....
interesting comment that - this is not anti-acfc. I have an actual question.
How many players who had never been pro before have signed a pro contract after their performances at the CWC?
I'm just trying to figure out which path actually offers the best chance at a pro contract.
For Europe probably CWC offers best chance - Andrea went to Georgia afterwards and Exposito to Belgium. Having a good game against the Nix at Kiwitea Street seems to be your best chance of getting noticed by Ernie down here - Reira and Krishna for instance.
double post
how many have leapt from anywhere in nz to greatness in the last 7 years?
I assume greatness means playing regularly at EPL etc level.
Of the few that have, Have any of them gone from Phoenix I suspect not!
Not that you will ever acknowledge that.
Have any of the NZ players that have played in EPL ever played for Kingz/Knights/Phoenix?
oh the angst if nix B get him would be beautiful.
Spoke to Sammy on Sunday at Kiwitea Street and he's really looking forward to going to the CWC with ACFC in December, so go figure. Only pity is he misses out on the Under 20 World Cup by a year.
Unlucky for him. Especially with it being in nz, will be an exciting tournament for those involved.
Can see a case for him playing CWC, then either staying at ACFC or going to nix B. Realistically if he's good enough the nix will notice him anyway. ACFC are at a decent enough level in terms of ability and how well/often they train that either option would be good for him. Tough decision.
I guess being at nix B would give him a better chance of a call up to the nix as a replacement, then potentially more chance of gaining a pro contract on the back of that if he lights up the league. But then he is probably more settled where he is.
how many have leapt from anywhere in nz to greatness in the last 7 years?
I assume greatness means playing regularly at EPL etc level.
Of the few that have, Have any of them gone from Phoenix I suspect not!
Not that you will ever acknowledge that.
Have any of the NZ players that have played in EPL ever played for Kingz/Knights/Phoenix?
The reality is that most ASBP players will be looking at the Phoenix as the first step to a professional career because outside of that route very few have made it overseas. Whether you see the Phoenix as a stepping stone or the end goal is up to you, but there are still excellent careers to be had playing there earning decent but not spectacular money.
The question is whether staying at Auckland City or moving to the Phoenix B is the better route to achieve that goal.
Normo's coming home
how many have leapt from anywhere in nz to greatness in the last 7 years?
I assume greatness means playing regularly at EPL etc level.
Of the few that have, Have any of them gone from Phoenix I suspect not!
Not that you will ever acknowledge that.
Have any of the NZ players that have played in EPL ever played for Kingz/Knights/Phoenix?
The reality is that most ASBP players will be looking at the Phoenix as the first step to a professional career because outside of that route very few have made it overseas. Whether you see the Phoenix as a stepping stone or the end goal is up to you, but there are still excellent careers to be had playing there earning decent but not spectacular money.
The question is whether staying at Auckland City or moving to the Phoenix B is the better route to achieve that goal.
Plenty that have made it that havent played A-League
Nelson, Ried and Thomas to name but 3
So maybe reality is a little different to them than yourself?
Agreed that players see A-League as stepping stone but lets not kid ourselves that its the only way to get a contract overseas.
Way more players overseas that have never played Aussie League than those that have
how many have leapt from anywhere in nz to greatness in the last 7 years?
I assume greatness means playing regularly at EPL etc level.
Of the few that have, Have any of them gone from Phoenix I suspect not!
Not that you will ever acknowledge that.
Have any of the NZ players that have played in EPL ever played for Kingz/Knights/Phoenix?
The reality is that most ASBP players will be looking at the Phoenix as the first step to a professional career because outside of that route very few have made it overseas. Whether you see the Phoenix as a stepping stone or the end goal is up to you, but there are still excellent careers to be had playing there earning decent but not spectacular money.
The question is whether staying at Auckland City or moving to the Phoenix B is the better route to achieve that goal.
Plenty that have made it that havent played A-League
Nelson, Ried and Thomas to name but 3
So maybe reality is a little different to them than yourself?
Agreed that players see A-League as stepping stone but lets not kid ourselves that its the only way to get a contract overseas.
Way more players overseas that have never played Aussie League than those that have
Absolutely. I think though that knowing you can make a good living in your own country and play in a league which does get overseas attention makes it a pretty good option for a lot of guys. Obviously (a) not every young player is going to be able to get a shot with the Phoenix purely because of the numbers and (b) some may not like that route i.e. Thomas. It's very hard to go direct to Europe if you don't have right to work as well and that's going to be a big issue for some guys.
Thomas is an exception but Reid is obviously a different case and there was no A-League when Nelsen was around.
Normo's coming home
how many have leapt from anywhere in nz to greatness in the last 7 years?
I assume greatness means playing regularly at EPL etc level.
Of the few that have, Have any of them gone from Phoenix I suspect not!
Not that you will ever acknowledge that.
Have any of the NZ players that have played in EPL ever played for Kingz/Knights/Phoenix?
The reality is that most ASBP players will be looking at the Phoenix as the first step to a professional career because outside of that route very few have made it overseas. Whether you see the Phoenix as a stepping stone or the end goal is up to you, but there are still excellent careers to be had playing there earning decent but not spectacular money.
The question is whether staying at Auckland City or moving to the Phoenix B is the better route to achieve that goal.
Plenty that have made it that havent played A-League
Nelson, Ried and Thomas to name but 3
So maybe reality is a little different to them than yourself?
Agreed that players see A-League as stepping stone but lets not kid ourselves that its the only way to get a contract overseas.
Way more players overseas that have never played Aussie League than those that have
Absolutely. I think though that knowing you can make a good living in your own country and play in a league which does get overseas attention makes it a pretty good option for a lot of guys. Obviously (a) not every young player is going to be able to get a shot with the Phoenix purely because of the numbers and (b) some may not like that route i.e. Thomas. It's very hard to go direct to Europe if you don't have right to work as well and that's going to be a big issue for some guys.
Thomas is an exception but Reid is obviously a different case and there was no A-League when Nelsen was around.
Correct there was no A-League when Nelson was around but there was NSL that we had a team in and only Ivan Vicelich from that era did anything of note overseas.
How many seasons have Phoenix been going now 7? And still not a single player has gone from there to top European league that I can recall?
Only Rojas via Melbourne so hardly a great return for the team supposed to be a stepping stone is it?
While Phoenix give NZ players a chance to play pro and still reside here its clearly not the only option to an overseas contract in fact the are clearly many more productive options and opportunies.
how many have leapt from anywhere in nz to greatness in the last 7 years?
I assume greatness means playing regularly at EPL etc level.
Of the few that have, Have any of them gone from Phoenix I suspect not!
Not that you will ever acknowledge that.
Have any of the NZ players that have played in EPL ever played for Kingz/Knights/Phoenix?
The reality is that most ASBP players will be looking at the Phoenix as the first step to a professional career because outside of that route very few have made it overseas. Whether you see the Phoenix as a stepping stone or the end goal is up to you, but there are still excellent careers to be had playing there earning decent but not spectacular money.
The question is whether staying at Auckland City or moving to the Phoenix B is the better route to achieve that goal.
Plenty that have made it that havent played A-League
Nelson, Ried and Thomas to name but 3
So maybe reality is a little different to them than yourself?
Agreed that players see A-League as stepping stone but lets not kid ourselves that its the only way to get a contract overseas.
Way more players overseas that have never played Aussie League than those that have
Absolutely. I think though that knowing you can make a good living in your own country and play in a league which does get overseas attention makes it a pretty good option for a lot of guys. Obviously (a) not every young player is going to be able to get a shot with the Phoenix purely because of the numbers and (b) some may not like that route i.e. Thomas. It's very hard to go direct to Europe if you don't have right to work as well and that's going to be a big issue for some guys.
Thomas is an exception but Reid is obviously a different case and there was no A-League when Nelsen was around.
Correct there was no A-League when Nelson was around but there was NSL that we had a team in and only Ivan Vicelich from that era did anything of note overseas.
How many seasons have Phoenix been going now 7? And still not a single player has gone from there to top European league that I can recall?
Only Rojas via Melbourne so hardly a great return for the team supposed to be a stepping stone is it?
While Phoenix give NZ players a chance to play pro and still reside here its clearly not the only option to an overseas contract in fact the are clearly many more productive options and opportunies.
The big issue is that in the last 7 years we've had very few players make it overseas at all. Only Nelsen, Wood, Thomas, Craig Henderson, Dan Keat, WInston Reid, Chris James and Rory Fallon have played first team football in Europe over that time. Rojas and Howieson have contracts but neither of them has played a game. Pretty slim pickings...
You're angle on this seems to be criticising the Phoenix which is fine - personally I think it's a pretty sad indictment for our development of players as a whole. You say there are many more productive options and opportunities, I'm not sure there's a lot of evidence for that
Normo's coming home
how many have leapt from anywhere in nz to greatness in the last 7 years?
I assume greatness means playing regularly at EPL etc level.
Of the few that have, Have any of them gone from Phoenix I suspect not!
Not that you will ever acknowledge that.
Have any of the NZ players that have played in EPL ever played for Kingz/Knights/Phoenix?
The reality is that most ASBP players will be looking at the Phoenix as the first step to a professional career because outside of that route very few have made it overseas. Whether you see the Phoenix as a stepping stone or the end goal is up to you, but there are still excellent careers to be had playing there earning decent but not spectacular money.
The question is whether staying at Auckland City or moving to the Phoenix B is the better route to achieve that goal.
Plenty that have made it that havent played A-League
Nelson, Ried and Thomas to name but 3
So maybe reality is a little different to them than yourself?
Agreed that players see A-League as stepping stone but lets not kid ourselves that its the only way to get a contract overseas.
Way more players overseas that have never played Aussie League than those that have
Absolutely. I think though that knowing you can make a good living in your own country and play in a league which does get overseas attention makes it a pretty good option for a lot of guys. Obviously (a) not every young player is going to be able to get a shot with the Phoenix purely because of the numbers and (b) some may not like that route i.e. Thomas. It's very hard to go direct to Europe if you don't have right to work as well and that's going to be a big issue for some guys.
Thomas is an exception but Reid is obviously a different case and there was no A-League when Nelsen was around.
Correct there was no A-League when Nelson was around but there was NSL that we had a team in and only Ivan Vicelich from that era did anything of note overseas.
How many seasons have Phoenix been going now 7? And still not a single player has gone from there to top European league that I can recall?
Only Rojas via Melbourne so hardly a great return for the team supposed to be a stepping stone is it?
While Phoenix give NZ players a chance to play pro and still reside here its clearly not the only option to an overseas contract in fact the are clearly many more productive options and opportunies.
The big issue is that in the last 7 years we've had very few players make it overseas at all. Only Nelsen, Wood, Thomas, Craig Henderson, Dan Keat, WInston Reid, Chris James and Rory Fallon have played first team football in Europe over that time. Rojas and Howieson have contracts but neither of them has played a game. Pretty slim pickings...
You're angle on this seems to be criticising the Phoenix which is fine - personally I think it's a pretty sad indictment for our development of players as a whole. You say there are many more productive options and opportunities, I'm not sure there's a lot of evidence for that
Whilst HarryHunt takes a fairly aggressive stance he has a valid point. Phoenix could almost be considered end of the road.
Auckland City FC
That's a valid point. The recent Newcastle and West Ham tour shows the EPL is no longer the holy grail and being a decent pro in say Australia or the United States is worthy in its own right. However it is also worth noting that the Kingz got Ivan Vicelich to Holland and ACFC have seen three players (via CWC performances) go to lower divisions in Europe.
I imagine someone like Ben Sigmund or Andrew Durante is pretty content with their lot as A League professionals. Playing week in and week out in a decent league and getting well paid would be better than the frustration of being in the reserves in Germany for a big club like Stuttgart, as has happened with Rojas. I think he would have been better off being a star at Melbourne Victory. Ryan Thomas on the other hand must be pinching himself. I doubt he's getting paid any more than the A League in Holland. However being a regular player in the Dutch premier league doesn't necessarily translate to moving up to a bigger European competition. Just ask Ivan Vicelich or Fred De Jong.
True - good point
Auckland City FC
That's a valid point. The recent Newcastle and West Ham tour shows the EPL is no longer the holy grail and being a decent pro in say Australia or the United States is worthy in its own right. However it is also worth noting that the Kingz got Ivan Vicelich to Holland and ACFC have seen three players (via CWC performances) go to lower divisions in Europe.
I imagine someone like Ben Sigmund or Andrew Durante is pretty content with their lot as A League professionals. Playing week in and week out in a decent league and getting well paid would be better than the frustration of being in the reserves in Germany for a big club like Stuttgart, as has happened with Rojas. I think he would have been better off being a star at Melbourne Victory. Ryan Thomas on the other hand must be pinching himself. I doubt he's getting paid any more than the A League in Holland. However being a regular player in the Dutch premier league doesn't necessarily translate to moving up to a bigger European competition. Just ask Ivan Vicelich or Fred De Jong.
Out of interest, who are the ACFC players to go onto better things in Europe. Not a challenge, just don't know and am interested.
On the Phoenix role in developing players, I think it is fair to say that in the first 3-4 years under Herbert, Phoenix just did not pick and play players in early stages of development. And style of play wasn't conducive to their development while at the club. Lack of reserves/youth squad part of the problem. So history doesn't teach us much in that regard.
I know, I know, its serious!
Can you read ?
If so , go back several posts ....
I know, I know, its serious!
Hard to claim those two when they came from Europe and a pro background....
Grumpy old bastard alert
and they were just here for a short time until they could land their next pro gig
and they were just here for a short time until they could land their next pro gig
True for Andrea and Gustavo but not for Exposito, who played a couple of full seasons at Kiwitea Street. Interesting that he flew down to Morocco last December from Belgium for the CWC to catch up with his former ACFC team-mates.
Whereas Rojas was at Pnix ...for how long ?
Grumpy old bastard alert
how many have leapt from anywhere in nz to greatness in the last 7 years?
I assume greatness means playing regularly at EPL etc level.
Of the few that have, Have any of them gone from Phoenix I suspect not!
Not that you will ever acknowledge that.
Have any of the NZ players that have played in EPL ever played for Kingz/Knights/Phoenix?
The reality is that most ASBP players will be looking at the Phoenix as the first step to a professional career because outside of that route very few have made it overseas. Whether you see the Phoenix as a stepping stone or the end goal is up to you, but there are still excellent careers to be had playing there earning decent but not spectacular money.
The question is whether staying at Auckland City or moving to the Phoenix B is the better route to achieve that goal.
Plenty that have made it that havent played A-League
Nelson, Ried and Thomas to name but 3
So maybe reality is a little different to them than yourself?
Agreed that players see A-League as stepping stone but lets not kid ourselves that its the only way to get a contract overseas.
Way more players overseas that have never played Aussie League than those that have
Absolutely. I think though that knowing you can make a good living in your own country and play in a league which does get overseas attention makes it a pretty good option for a lot of guys. Obviously (a) not every young player is going to be able to get a shot with the Phoenix purely because of the numbers and (b) some may not like that route i.e. Thomas. It's very hard to go direct to Europe if you don't have right to work as well and that's going to be a big issue for some guys.
Thomas is an exception but Reid is obviously a different case and there was no A-League when Nelsen was around.
Correct there was no A-League when Nelson was around but there was NSL that we had a team in and only Ivan Vicelich from that era did anything of note overseas.
How many seasons have Phoenix been going now 7? And still not a single player has gone from there to top European league that I can recall?
Only Rojas via Melbourne so hardly a great return for the team supposed to be a stepping stone is it?
While Phoenix give NZ players a chance to play pro and still reside here its clearly not the only option to an overseas contract in fact the are clearly many more productive options and opportunies.
The big issue is that in the last 7 years we've had very few players make it overseas at all. Only Nelsen, Wood, Thomas, Craig Henderson, Dan Keat, WInston Reid, Chris James and Rory Fallon have played first team football in Europe over that time. Rojas and Howieson have contracts but neither of them has played a game. Pretty slim pickings...
You're angle on this seems to be criticising the Phoenix which is fine - personally I think it's a pretty sad indictment for our development of players as a whole. You say there are many more productive options and opportunities, I'm not sure there's a lot of evidence for that
I wasnt/am not critcising Phoenix just stating the facts that no one has really progressed from there to any major European leagues.
And while the likes of Payne, Tuiloma, Howieson, Burns to name but a few havent played much 1st team yet or at all in some cases they did/do have contracts despite never having anything to do with Phoenix at all.
Not saying this a good thing or bad, But there are other options for going pro other than spending your whole career in an average Aussie league
Agree there haven't been many from the Phoenix who've made it overseas, but on the whole, the A-League has been a pretty decent development ground for a lot of Australians to make it to European leagues. I'm not convinced we've had any players that were good enough to be honest
You look at Tim Payne and Luke Adams who both went through the British Youth system and now are out of the pro game. You have to be careful saying people have made it just because they sign a youth contract or play U21s. There is certainly something to be said for playing first team in a weaker league at 18/19/20 years old.
One definite trend is for big clubs to make money off signing young players, training them for a few years and then selling them on for profit. Chelsea have been doing this for a number of years. They sign 16/17 year olds, send them out to Vitesse Arnem in the Dutch league and then sell them on at 20/21. Essentially a recruitment and development business completely independent from the first team. This is motivated by FFP where expenditure on youth development is exempt from FFP but player trading income is able to be used to increase your allowable spending. Don't assume that youth players are actually signed with the intention of playing first team football for that particular club.
Normo's coming home
Told Tim Payne is close to signing with Auckland City FC for the 2014-2015 ASB Premiership season.
— Niall Anderson (@NiallGunner) September 18, 2014
He'll be better paid than he would have been at the nix I suspect. :p
Cost of living higher in jafatown.
NB Cam Lindsey trialling in match v Western Springs at the Springs 7.30 tonight.
"At the end of the drive the lawmen arrive...
I'll take my chance because luck is on my side or something...
Her name is Rio, she don't need to understand...
Oh Rio, Rio, hear them shout across the land..."
Broken leg to Moreira.
"At the end of the drive the lawmen arrive...
I'll take my chance because luck is on my side or something...
Her name is Rio, she don't need to understand...
Oh Rio, Rio, hear them shout across the land..."