Hawke's Bay United

Saw on instagram that Sam Mason-Smith is leaving Geelong and coming back to NZ - any rumours of a potential resigning? Would also not be surprised if Tasman are in for him.

Thoughts on the Rapa move to Hawkes Bay??

Well it's more just Ifill's influence as we saw the same happen at Tasman. If he trusts those players and they learn something from playing alongside him then fair enough.

First confirmed signing Birhanu Taye, 3rd session with HBU... wonder if that's ok for Stu? 

Headed along to the pre season game today, heres the list of players i could work out.

Sho Goto.- NCR

Sam mason smith.

Cam lindsay.

Dan allan.

Jorge akers.

BJ. NCR

Cory chettleburgh.

Joe zupo - import from canada.

Liam schofield NCR.

Mack waite NCR.

Karan mandair NCR.

Jordan lamb

Also a young GK from waiarapa and 3-4 others i hadnt seen before.

They look to only really have Sam mason as a striker who looked abit short of gametime, i would hope they have someone else on there way

Alex Britton is the GK. Was Tasmans back up last season

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/hawkes-bay-today/sport/...

This seems like a bit of a mess to me

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/hawkes-bay-today/sport/...

And here's the Federation response, which includes the rather bold claim that...

the premiership is not "semi-professional".

"It is an amateur league and players are not paid to play as references to being a 'semi-pro' may suggest."

I've never been a fan of federations running national league teams and was impressed when the waibop federation showed the foresight to hand their franchise to Hamilton Wanderers (although I think Melville would have done a better job)

And similar issues apply at other franchises too.

Isn't Sam MS with HBU? Hope he knows he isn't being paid

judging by this article, Central club chairpersons are going to converge on Central Fed's doorstep with pitchforks soon

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/hawkes-bay-today/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=1503460&objectid=12136948

Ol Sole was quoted in the article, perhaps he could clarify this whole paid/unpaid thing. There are guys that Rovers pay that, presumably, would not play for HBU for nothing.

I have no idea what payments the players at HBU get, nor do I want to know.  For Darren to say (paraphrasing) that the players are not paid plays a little bit on the unbelievable.  The player expenditure, from the HBU finance reports on the Companies website show $105,210 in 2015/16 (loss for the year $42,990) and $85,816 for the 2016/17 years (loss for the year $84,552).  All I can say is that is a hell of a lot of petrol money!

The scarey part of this whole thing is that CF has donated $20,000 per year for 3 years on top of the loan.  Add those numbers up.

The icing on the cake was Darren stating in the newspaper "

"The likelihood of the debt being repaid in full any time soon or, for that matter. any time in the future, is debateable and probably unlikely," says Mason"

I wonder if NCR, or any other Club in the area can get a non-interest  loan, like this one,under the same terms.

Thats very high handed arrogance from CF

Totally agree. Are you really trying to tell us the likes of Cory Chettleburgh, Cam Lindsay, Sam Mason-Smith and of course Paul Ifill (all of which are top players) have come to the region for no monetary return?? Pffft.

That's disgusting he's said that and you're right again, all the local clubs should be knocking on the CF doors asking for this kind of handout.

He kind of has to say it really. The FIFA regulations stipulate that if you take one dollar for playing then you are a pro. There is effectively no such thing as a semi pro. However you can be paid what you like to coach outside of playing. Id suggest there are an awful lot of development officers on a good hourly rate care of the clubs donations.

I'm no longer connected at club level but have always been a supporter of the HBU concept. I do think that where the problem lies is that HBU [while providing places for local footballers to play] is perceived as a team that heavily relies on overseas and out of region players to field a team in the Handy. Recently, we have HB's favourite son, Bill Robertson, passed over and a very successful NCR winning the Central League and locals are asking "why not more local players in the HBU senior side?" Under normal circumstances HBU could weather that storm but it makes it very hard to do so when the local game is propping the team up with a substantial amount of money. Then you have the people in Manawatu lamenting the loss of Young Heart [where is the $$ support from CF to keep them going?] and Taranaki not being able to sustain a team in the Central League - no wonder the peasants are revolting.

You sure about that. My recollection is that you were allowed to be reimbursed reasonable costs for the league to be classed as amauter.  

Seems that according to FIFA you are either professional or amateur but you aren't classed as a professional the minute you take payment but when you are paid more for his footballing activity than the expenses the player effectively incurs. All other players are considered to be amateurs. (Status of player - Page 8 https://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/admi...)

...To clarify you can be reimbursed costs, this is limited to $300 a week by NZF I believe (Or around there). But as soon as you are paid to play you are a pro.

think that figure is more like up to $700 and its the IRD that sets the limit (as this is for all "amatuer" sports) not NZF

Yeah but the rest is topped up as coaching. So effectively, ACFC employ 20 coaches that all coach kids (at a club that has no kids) in the football offseason.......

#local

Hawke’s Bay United: MacKenzie Waite (GK), Anders Erikkson (Sweden), Liam Schofield (United Kingdom), Cameron Lindsay, Joseph Zupo (Canada), Daniel Allan, Cory Chettleburgh, Sam Mason-Smith (United Kingdom), Sho Goto (Japan), Maxime Oliveri (France), Ben Lack, Birhanu Taye, Dilan Nanayakkara, Jordan Lamb, Bjorn Christensen, Karan Mandair, Jorge Akers, Alex Britton (GK)
Coach: Brett Angell

So now the dust has settled there are only 4 local homegrown players from the CF region in the squad.

Let's all ask Darren Mason the CEO of CF about these pathways he is taking about and used to justify the CF payments.

After $210k pumped into HB United over the years ($150k that he has admitted will unlikely ever be paid back plus $60k's worth of 'donations' over the past 3 years) we are left with 4 local players good enough for the first team squad. They better all be starting!!!

Parents and clubs in the region have every right to be spewing over this. I know let's all send our kids to the CF academies and pay our winter fees so we can put money in Paul Iffil and co's pockets yay.

What a joke you are Darren and CF.

Also let's all talk about big bad Brett who from what I hear is quite the dictating bully.

The football development manager for the CF and head coach of HB United. Should be lot's of his developed central region players in the squad if he's a great coach right?

Instead of all that money being re-invested into grass roots and quality coaches/coaching into the football talent centres etc. he has decided to use all these funds for HB United over the years, paying players who come and go (at least baldy Bill has stuck with the region and given something back with his academy set up, but yet you cut ties with him, probably become too local for you has he?). And ultimately you have only produced 4 players in the first team squad. Well done Brett, well done. 

What exactly have you achieved for the Central region? How many Napier Marist games did you go to watch, how many Port Hill games did you go to watch, how many Eskview games did you watch. Not many I bet. We just simply have another guy in power within the region who will be looking at his own gains.

Can I stir the pot and just say I'm quietly enjoying the fact a couple of teenagers from my Hamilton-based winter club are set to get the benefit of national league experience with Hawke's Bay - and it is not costing us a cent in levies or loans.

Certainly, stir all you like Bruce, as it just reiterates my points. It's a credit to your local development manager and governing body that other regions are looking at your young players, something good must be going on in your region. And don't worry, CF will pick up the bill for their costs.

Where do you propose the local players come from? NCR predominately played imports in their first team (whom are paid - quite possibly with money generated from their junior players/club) and that's a fact they can dispute as much as they want and Havelock North were relegated, suggesting their players aren't up to playing National League. Yes Central Football have propped up the franchise and that does concern me, but the clubs have a responsibility to develop their players as well and quite frankly the players in HB aren't good enough. I would hate to see a team of 11 locals exposed at a level they're not ready or good enough for. The players themselves need to take responsibility for their development as well. Are they in the gym, are they eating properly? It's so easy to point the finger and make someone or an organisation a scapegoat when you have one view and you're not prepared to listen to others. Frankly the politics in HB Football is becoming embarrassing and trying. If Brett thinks he has the best players available to him, then I'll put my club allegiances a side and wish them all the best. Wish others could do the same. 

What is your club allegiance?

I don't think disclosing that would make much difference to the above comment. I'm a football fan above anything else and think its sad to see the game trashed both nationally and locally through the media. Whether people agree with my comments is up to them and they don't need to know what club I belong to, to do so. I'm not pardoning CF, but there are a number of contributing factors as to the state of the game here.

Where do I propose the local players come from? I propose they should have come from the CF funds that HB United have squandered over the years, by investing in grass roots and the local game more heavily.

Agree the politics are tiring but it's hard for there not be be any when 8+ local clubs, all independently run by hard working volunteers, are expected to pull together and support a team that uses it's money to pull in a squad from out of the region, only to see them fly off again in April. Apart from NCR and Havelock, there are no other players from the other clubs, I agree they may not be up to it, but how do expect them to have enthusiasm for HB United when CF aren't offering them a cheque to improve their club and chances of producing players.

But hey, each to their own and I do follow some of your points.

And let's be fair to Havelock & Napier. HNW fielded a predominately young and local side all season and NCR have set up their own independent academy, so there does seem to be some ownership taken on by them.

well except for those years when he buggered off to Team Wellington :-)

Biss, Kilkolly, Bevan, Omeagher, Morton, Stewart, Wilox... all HB raised players who are early mid 20s, have all played national league. Brett was involved with all of them apart from maybe Bevan. Non of these players live in HB any more. HB has never been a production line of top players compared to other regions! It goes back before long before Brett. 

Dunkingdount what is the solution? FTC is obviously not working or well liked. Rovers have started an academy which has been talked about for years but never come about until now. Is coach education the issue... leons department which is direct from NZF? Is kids not playing enough? To much? To many coaches? School vs club club v fed youth v senior, juggling in back yard vs fifa19. 

What's the solution? Well that's the million dollar question, and I don't have the answer, I guess I'm just simply frustrated that the people getting paid a good salary to call the shots haven't either.