National League 2023

Showtime Nixie

Auckland City did everything to let Auckland United back into the game by making dumb substitutions. Fair play to them though unbeaten. Auckland United poor and should've been put to bed. Some of these teams train 4 times a week you should expect more from them. 

Got along to the Olympic game, to be fair Petone put up a fight. I personally thought it would be a walk in the park for the greeks. Watson red card so stupid with a big game vs Christchurch next week. What a game that will be.

This national league has been the poorest standard in a long time. Why is the quality dropping every year? 

 
When it was franchise-based in the lead-up to the National League, there would be a flurry of signings to pack the league with the best of the best. Now we have National League stalwarts, like Sam Burfoot, Andy Bevin, Ryan Feutz, and so on, who are not even in the league. 

If there was a transfer window where each club could sign two under-20s, a marquee player, and a guest player, the entire league could rise in standard. 

yeah seems a bit diluted at the moment. Need to bring back the quality

Highlight of the game was Kilkolly doing one of his shark celebrations before having it overturned.

Lowlight was Matt Conger. Not saying he over-influenced the game just that some of his smaller decisions are totally bizarre.

20 Legend

Highlight of the game was Kilkolly doing one of his shark celebrations before having it overturned.

Lowlight was Matt Conger. Not saying he over-influenced the game just that some of his smaller decisions are totally bizarre.

Conger blew a couple of soft ones at the start of the game but got the message the players didnt enjoy them and then put his whistle away for most part. Only big one he got wrong was the disallowed goal for Kilkollys hattrick but lucky it didnt cost ACFC. I guess Kilkolly can celebrate how he likes if hes scoring. Always seems to be on their scoresheet quite prolific at this level. 

ChopperNZ

Rumour mill is that Ifill is the new Olympic coach next year 

Paul Ifill was on NewstalkZB last Friday confirming that he will not be at Christchurch United next season. 

Shambles

Showtime Nixie

Auckland City did everything to let Auckland United back into the game by making dumb substitutions. Fair play to them though unbeaten. Auckland United poor and should've been put to bed. Some of these teams train 4 times a week you should expect more from them. 

Got along to the Olympic game, to be fair Petone put up a fight. I personally thought it would be a walk in the park for the greeks. Watson red card so stupid with a big game vs Christchurch next week. What a game that will be.

This national league has been the poorest standard in a long time. Why is the quality dropping every year? 

 
When it was franchise-based in the lead-up to the National League, there would be a flurry of signings to pack the league with the best of the best. Now we have National League stalwarts, like Sam Burfoot, Andy Bevin, Ryan Feutz, and so on, who are not even in the league. 

If there was a transfer window where each club could sign two under-20s, a marquee player, and a guest player, the entire league could rise in standard. 

Pretty sure they can sign U20 players on loan for Nat League round -2 or 3 not sure exactly- so part way there.

AllWhites82

ChopperNZ

Rumour mill is that Ifill is the new Olympic coach next year 

Paul Ifill was on NewstalkZB last Friday confirming that he will not be at Christchurch United next season. 

Cool, I've been uncomfortable about Iffy working for a Russian oligarch

ClubOranje

Shambles

Showtime Nixie

Auckland City did everything to let Auckland United back into the game by making dumb substitutions. Fair play to them though unbeaten. Auckland United poor and should've been put to bed. Some of these teams train 4 times a week you should expect more from them. 

Got along to the Olympic game, to be fair Petone put up a fight. I personally thought it would be a walk in the park for the greeks. Watson red card so stupid with a big game vs Christchurch next week. What a game that will be.

This national league has been the poorest standard in a long time. Why is the quality dropping every year? 

 
When it was franchise-based in the lead-up to the National League, there would be a flurry of signings to pack the league with the best of the best. Now we have National League stalwarts, like Sam Burfoot, Andy Bevin, Ryan Feutz, and so on, who are not even in the league. 

If there was a transfer window where each club could sign two under-20s, a marquee player, and a guest player, the entire league could rise in standard. 

Pretty sure they can sign U20 players on loan for Nat League round -2 or 3 not sure exactly- so part way there.

yup you can sign 2, maybe 3 under 20’s, but I think if you could sign an additional 2 senior players on top of that you’d really see better football across the league.

To some degree this is what happens in the women's championship - the Capital, Central and South Island teams are able to sign up the best from teams who didn't make it eg Petone or West Coast Rangers

Ranix

watching_from_far

Any chance nzf doing a write up about games or publishing the table somewhere?

https://www.nzfootball.co.nz/COMPETITIONS/Football/national-league-championship-1

Oh, I only just discovered that if you scroll right down quite along way at that link you can find a table and fixture list for the women's league and below that for the men's league.
But at the top of the page, only previews of the coming matches, no match reports.

Pos Team                      Pld  W  D   L      GF  GA   GD  Pts
1 Auckland City          | 6 | 6 | 0 | 0 | 14 | 6 | +8 | 18 |
2 Wellington Olympic | 6 | 4 | 2 | 0 | 22 | 10 | +12 | 14
3 Christchurch United | 6 | 4 | 1 | 1 | 11 | 5 | +6 | 13 |
4 Manurewa                 | 6 | 3 | 0 | 3 | 14 | 16 | −2 | 9
5 Auckland United       | 6 | 2 | 2 | 2 | 9 | 10 | −1 | 8
6 Cashmere Technical | 6 | 2 | 1 | 3 | 15 | 15 | 0 | 7
7 Eastern Suburbs      | 6 | 1 | 3 | 2 | 10 | 10 | 0 | 6
8 Napier City Rovers   | 6 | 2 | 0 | 4 | 8 | 14 | −6 | 6
9 Wellington Phoenix  | 6 | 1 | 0 | 5 | 10 | 15 | −5 | 3
10 Petone                     | 6 | 0 | 1 | 5 | 3 | 15 | −12 | 1

Updated to matches played on 29 October 2023. 

watching_from_far

Any chance nzf doing a write up about games or publishing the table somewhere?

 

Doloras

To some degree this is what happens in the women's championship - the Capital, Central and South Island teams are able to sign up the best from teams who didn't make it eg Petone or West Coast Rangers

My understanding is that if the league carries on as planned it will only be the federation teams that can have guest players. The two Wellington teams have about 4 guest players each. If Central League go on to have the top two teams progress to NL then they won't have the benefit of guest players next year, but Central, Canterbury and Southern will.  

The wee wahinix will still be able to drop down pro's but that's something we all just have to live with. When the Auckland A-League side comes about we will see another academy team take up NL spaces ahead of (dare I say it) more deserving teams. 

We can't fault the weenix for taking up a spot from Central League because in all three years of the new league they earned it on their own. 

The weenix should have to earn the spot like every other team. By them having automatic entry, the 4th placed wellington side may arguably only be as good or as worse as the 3rd place southern or a 5th place northern league team. What would make the 10th position interesting would be the 3rd & 4th place southern, weenix, should they not automatically qualify plus another central and northern 4th and 5th play off for the 10th spot next season in the National League. Whichever team wins would have more recruitment potential for the coming season and make its league more competitive. The upcoming Auckland AFC, Olympic & Christchurch cash to player 'tri'poly creates very little interest in the League

Podderick

The weenix should have to earn the spot like every other team. By them having automatic entry, the 4th placed wellington side may arguably only be as good or as worse as the 3rd place southern or a 5th place northern league team. What would make the 10th position interesting would be the 3rd & 4th place southern, weenix, should they not automatically qualify plus another central and northern 4th and 5th play off for the 10th spot next season in the National League. Whichever team wins would have more recruitment potential for the coming season and make its league more competitive. The upcoming Auckland AFC, Olympic & Christchurch cash to player 'tri'poly creates very little interest in the League

By the standards of Auckland teams Olympic are minnows. Auckland City get half a million from Trillian alone. Eastern Suburbs get about $300k. There might be more financial transparency with the incorporated societies legislation in the near future but in general Wellington teams run off the smell of an oily rag 

Podderick

The weenix should have to earn the spot like every other team. By them having automatic entry, the 4th placed wellington side may arguably only be as good or as worse as the 3rd place southern or a 5th place northern league team. What would make the 10th position interesting would be the 3rd & 4th place southern, weenix, should they not automatically qualify plus another central and northern 4th and 5th play off for the 10th spot next season in the National League. Whichever team wins would have more recruitment potential for the coming season and make its league more competitive. The upcoming Auckland AFC, Olympic & Christchurch cash to player 'tri'poly creates very little interest in the League

Logically in future you would expand to 12 teams with the Auckland FC A-League reserves and 3rd place Southern team

expand? not sold on that idea. it seems diluted enough already. Need less teams and better players all together. But yeah who knows what could happen in future

Expansion would be good if the league was longer than a single round. I imagine a few quality players at smaller clubs missed out on getting picked up for the NL.

There’s just not much point with the current qualification format, it would only weaken the league imo

As I understand it, the format proposed at the start of 2020 would have been a full-season National League with a promotion and relegation system that would have used average positions or points over a period of time, a bit like some Latin American leagues. It's obvious a full-season league would make the most sense, but no one has figured out how to make it work financially. As it stands I believe the NI teams subsidise a lot of the SIL travel costs through the flat entry fee.

CBFryingpan

As I understand it, the format proposed at the start of 2020 would have been a full-season National League with a promotion and relegation system that would have used average positions or points over a period of time, a bit like some Latin American leagues. It's obvious a full-season league would make the most sense, but no one has figured out how to make it work financially. As it stands I believe the NI teams subsidise a lot of the SIL travel costs through the flat entry fee.

Something like this would be good. Or what they could have done was had the original NL qualifiers in 2022 start as the 10 NL teams in 2023 and run it as a full season, with the regional leagues being filled appropriately from the tier or tiers below.

The worst suggestion I have seen is run the regional leagues as a single round during the first couple months of the season before launching in to a full NL season.

So both mens and womens national league finals will be at Mt. Smart Stadium... interesting given they ran the home advantage line last time around with Auckland City getting to host. 

What would Wellington Olympic, Christchurch United or Southern United get for finishing top? Certainly not home advantage it seems!

It's seriously a massive joke with NZ football, every damn thing just gets chucked in Auckland. I know they have the best facilities, but it gets to the point where it seems it's all that matters to them. 

Best games at the Womens World Cup (that is fair due to best stadium)
OFC Futsal
OFC Olympic qualifiers
OFC Champions League
NZ National League finals
Chatham Cup, Kate Sheppard Cup finals

Wellington Olympic on fire against Christchurch United early on.

Olympic 3-0 up in the first 25 minutes and it's all looking very ominous for the Southern League Champions. 

Typical jinx behaviour - Olympic down to 10 and Jack-Henry Sinclair subbed off not long after with an injury. 🤕

YoungHeartHM

Wellington Olympic on fire against Christchurch United early on.

Olympic 3-0 up in the first 25 minutes and it's all looking very ominous for the Southern League Champions. 

Grand finalists settled if they win that game tbh

Geesh Olympic and Auckland City are polar opposites when it comes to providing entertainment aren't they

sawu

Geesh Olympic and Auckland City are polar opposites when it comes to providing entertainment aren't they

Any peripheral issues around development or funding aside, purely from a what they do on the pitch lens, does anyone actually like Auckland City? I can’t remember ever enjoying their brand of football outside of the CWC heroics when they came third and even then it’s not like I loved the way they played.

Shambles

sawu

Geesh Olympic and Auckland City are polar opposites when it comes to providing entertainment aren't they

Any peripheral issues around development or funding aside, purely from a what they do on the pitch lens, does anyone actually like Auckland City? I can’t remember ever enjoying their brand of football outside of the CWC heroics when they came third and even then it’s not like I loved the way they played.

Every time I see that city are playing and tune in I regret it immediately, put you to sleep levels of boring. Genuinely might be the least likeable club in the country for style of play. It's not like they need to be this way with the resources they have either.

Monto

Shambles

sawu

Geesh Olympic and Auckland City are polar opposites when it comes to providing entertainment aren't they

Any peripheral issues around development or funding aside, purely from a what they do on the pitch lens, does anyone actually like Auckland City? I can’t remember ever enjoying their brand of football outside of the CWC heroics when they came third and even then it’s not like I loved the way they played.

Every time I see that city are playing and tune in I regret it immediately, put you to sleep levels of boring. Genuinely might be the least likeable club in the country for style of play. It's not like they need to be this way with the resources they have either.

I haven't seen a lot of them in the National League but several times in Northern League and I guess it just comes down to efficiency. They would let teams like Rewa, Springs, Birkenhead have the ball as they back themselves to defend them and then break when necessary with the quality they have. I saw them six times maybe and only against Taka would I say they completely dominated. Despite being boring they were still top-scorers in Northern League and only conceded seven or so goals.

It's hard to argue against as a style of play; they've only lost twice since January: in the Club World Cup and to Springs in the Chatham Cup. Entertainment value is probably lower priority because - at the end of the day - this level isn't an entertainment 'product'. It's free entry to Kiwitea Street, so makes little financial difference (only food sales) whether 1,000 or 100 go. Club World Cup is where the money comes from and that's what they are geared towards.

carlind

Monto

Shambles

sawu

Geesh Olympic and Auckland City are polar opposites when it comes to providing entertainment aren't they

Any peripheral issues around development or funding aside, purely from a what they do on the pitch lens, does anyone actually like Auckland City? I can’t remember ever enjoying their brand of football outside of the CWC heroics when they came third and even then it’s not like I loved the way they played.

Every time I see that city are playing and tune in I regret it immediately, put you to sleep levels of boring. Genuinely might be the least likeable club in the country for style of play. It's not like they need to be this way with the resources they have either.

I haven't seen a lot of them in the National League but several times in Northern League and I guess it just comes down to efficiency. They would let teams like Rewa, Springs, Birkenhead have the ball as they back themselves to defend them and then break when necessary with the quality they have. I saw them six times maybe and only against Taka would I say they completely dominated. Despite being boring they were still top-scorers in Northern League and only conceded seven or so goals.

It's hard to argue against as a style of play; they've only lost twice since January: in the Club World Cup and to Springs in the Chatham Cup. Entertainment value is probably lower priority because - at the end of the day - this level isn't an entertainment 'product'. It's free entry to Kiwitea Street, so makes little financial difference (only food sales) whether 1,000 or 100 go. Club World Cup is where the money comes from and that's what they are geared towards.

Valid points, but the money doesn’t just come from CWC, a quick scan of the Trillian Trust grants will show they get ~$50-65k per month in grants.

carlind

Monto

Shambles

sawu

Geesh Olympic and Auckland City are polar opposites when it comes to providing entertainment aren't they

Any peripheral issues around development or funding aside, purely from a what they do on the pitch lens, does anyone actually like Auckland City? I can’t remember ever enjoying their brand of football outside of the CWC heroics when they came third and even then it’s not like I loved the way they played.

Every time I see that city are playing and tune in I regret it immediately, put you to sleep levels of boring. Genuinely might be the least likeable club in the country for style of play. It's not like they need to be this way with the resources they have either.

I haven't seen a lot of them in the National League but several times in Northern League and I guess it just comes down to efficiency. They would let teams like Rewa, Springs, Birkenhead have the ball as they back themselves to defend them and then break when necessary with the quality they have. I saw them six times maybe and only against Taka would I say they completely dominated. Despite being boring they were still top-scorers in Northern League and only conceded seven or so goals.

It's hard to argue against as a style of play; they've only lost twice since January: in the Club World Cup and to Springs in the Chatham Cup. Entertainment value is probably lower priority because - at the end of the day - this level isn't an entertainment 'product'. It's free entry to Kiwitea Street, so makes little financial difference (only food sales) whether 1,000 or 100 go. Club World Cup is where the money comes from and that's what they are geared towards.

I don't think it's got anything to do with the level. Man City play in a similar fashion and that is also boring as fudge to watch.

Hey, I started this debate by bemoaning the entertainment value of watching Auckland City... But some of these comments are slightly disingenuous, I think a large element for them (and other powerhouse sides like Man City!) to contend with is that given their reputation, their opponents will often simply setup very defensively behind the ball.
But give me a Welly Olympic match to watch and I'll make sure I catch it live or on FIFA+ as I know there's a good chance it will get crazy!

Buffon II

carlind

Monto

Shambles

sawu

Geesh Olympic and Auckland City are polar opposites when it comes to providing entertainment aren't they

Any peripheral issues around development or funding aside, purely from a what they do on the pitch lens, does anyone actually like Auckland City? I can’t remember ever enjoying their brand of football outside of the CWC heroics when they came third and even then it’s not like I loved the way they played.

Every time I see that city are playing and tune in I regret it immediately, put you to sleep levels of boring. Genuinely might be the least likeable club in the country for style of play. It's not like they need to be this way with the resources they have either.

I haven't seen a lot of them in the National League but several times in Northern League and I guess it just comes down to efficiency. They would let teams like Rewa, Springs, Birkenhead have the ball as they back themselves to defend them and then break when necessary with the quality they have. I saw them six times maybe and only against Taka would I say they completely dominated. Despite being boring they were still top-scorers in Northern League and only conceded seven or so goals.

It's hard to argue against as a style of play; they've only lost twice since January: in the Club World Cup and to Springs in the Chatham Cup. Entertainment value is probably lower priority because - at the end of the day - this level isn't an entertainment 'product'. It's free entry to Kiwitea Street, so makes little financial difference (only food sales) whether 1,000 or 100 go. Club World Cup is where the money comes from and that's what they are geared towards.

I don't think it's got anything to do with the level. Man City play in a similar fashion and that is also boring as fudge to watch.

If you think Man City are boring to watch you probably just don't get football...

lthomas20

Buffon II

carlind

Monto

Shambles

sawu

Geesh Olympic and Auckland City are polar opposites when it comes to providing entertainment aren't they

Any peripheral issues around development or funding aside, purely from a what they do on the pitch lens, does anyone actually like Auckland City? I can’t remember ever enjoying their brand of football outside of the CWC heroics when they came third and even then it’s not like I loved the way they played.

Every time I see that city are playing and tune in I regret it immediately, put you to sleep levels of boring. Genuinely might be the least likeable club in the country for style of play. It's not like they need to be this way with the resources they have either.

I haven't seen a lot of them in the National League but several times in Northern League and I guess it just comes down to efficiency. They would let teams like Rewa, Springs, Birkenhead have the ball as they back themselves to defend them and then break when necessary with the quality they have. I saw them six times maybe and only against Taka would I say they completely dominated. Despite being boring they were still top-scorers in Northern League and only conceded seven or so goals.

It's hard to argue against as a style of play; they've only lost twice since January: in the Club World Cup and to Springs in the Chatham Cup. Entertainment value is probably lower priority because - at the end of the day - this level isn't an entertainment 'product'. It's free entry to Kiwitea Street, so makes little financial difference (only food sales) whether 1,000 or 100 go. Club World Cup is where the money comes from and that's what they are geared towards.

I don't think it's got anything to do with the level. Man City play in a similar fashion and that is also boring as fudge to watch.

If you think Man City are boring to watch you probably just don't get football...

Or they don't like the way Man City play.

The idea of possession football is to quickly move the defence around, and find time and space for your best players... often 1v1 with a defender.

Auckland City don't do this. They pass for the sake of passing. The ball spends the far majority of the time with defenders, who take three touches before shifting the ball sideways. The midfields see virtually no ball and the only pass they look for is back to the CBs anyway. The very talented attacking stock are never allowed to try anything, even in and around the box. Yawn fest.

Comparing it to Man City is silly. When Man City needs to be, they are ruthlessly efficient. Every pass has a purpose, square balls across the defense are a necessary evil but they whole purpose is to play forward and get good players into space.

I hope the new Bill Foley Retro Knights franchise absolutely guts ACFC and takes all their best players and coaching staff. Then we can see whether that kind of football works against teams with equal or greater budgets

Doloras

I hope the new Bill Foley Retro Knights franchise absolutely guts ACFC and takes all their best players and coaching staff. Then we can see whether that kind of football works against teams with equal or greater budgets

And you think ACFC will not just sweep up the better players from their rivals anyway?

lthomas20

Doloras

I hope the new Bill Foley Retro Knights franchise absolutely guts ACFC and takes all their best players and coaching staff. Then we can see whether that kind of football works against teams with equal or greater budgets

And you think ACFC will not just sweep up the better players from their rivals anyway?

Not to mention a strict adherence to any player compensation/payment rules would, in my opinion, benefit City more than anyone else (speaking of Northern League teams that is). If everything is strictly audited and players can only receive a maximum of $150 (excluding coaching or other genuine paid work) then City surely become an ever bigger pull. 

If you're a top player at Club X and City want you, you would receive the same money either way. Just at City you'll likely win more trophies than games you will lose, and likely get funded trips to the islands (OFC Champions League) and Middle East luxury (Club World Cup, though that will become less frequent but more prestigious/financially lucrative). Not to mention any player-bonus portion of Club World Cup winnings, which would be significant. Bearing all that in mind, who would turn down City? If Club X wants to give the player what they'd get at City times 1.5 or more, then they might turn them down.

That being said I don't really expect many City (or National League in general) players will get picked up. Slightly pessimistic view and biased by the Phoenix rarely doing it but just my feeling.

Auck City will always control the domestic game here. Even say a new a-league franchise took a player or two ACFC would just get the next best domestic player in from another club or from the islands. No no ones beat them on a regular basis....i know its happened on a one off but even that's rare these days. And to be fair to ACFC when they go to World Club Champs they tend to do well that bring the NZ game more money and probably keeps football somewhat alive here as it gets distributed out but obviously some to them too. Got to look at it both ways. They can be boring to watch sometimes but it works for them they have their blue print and they have a level of professionalism about them you cant begrudge that. Need more investers in the domestic game to help other clubs out.

Doloras

I hope the new Bill Foley Retro Knights franchise absolutely guts ACFC and takes all their best players and coaching staff. Then we can see whether that kind of football works against teams with equal or greater budgets

What happened to the good old days when we dreamed that a press expose would destroy the Trillian Trust and put domestic football back on a fair footing. But it came and went and nobody GAF.