NZ National League 2022

Round 6 predictions:
Cashmere 3-1 Napier (Cash Tech too good at home, NCR are average at best)
ACFC 3-2 Nix Reserves (ACFC will come out firing but fancy Nix Reserves to make a game of it which they're well capable of doing)
Olympic 2-2 AU (Two good teams, Olympic probably favourites at home, going a highscoring draw to keep it interesting)
Miramar 4-2 Chch Utd (Miramar might be turning a corner [much too late], United really seem to be up struggle street, Miramar at home outscore them)
Melville 0-3 Birko (Still don't rate Melville, Birko are a handy side, comfortable win)

Howieson with a double, which sinks the WeeNix.

2nd was some hit!
65-70m wind assisted shot which sails over a caught out Callum Kennett.

That'll probably be a contender for goal of the week 👀 

Wellington Olympic putting on an absolute show against Auckland United this afternoon. Tearing strips off their northern counterparts.

3-0 with just under 20 to go, but could easily be 5 or 6. It's been dominant from the home side this afternoon - Assisted by what has been quite sloppy & wasteful play by the Aucklanders.

Interesting bit from pre-match too - Ben Mata lives in Auckland and actually coaches at United before flying back to Wellington/around the country to link up with the Greeks for matchday. Found that bloody interesting.

YoungHe.\rt

Wellington Olympic putting on an absolute show against Auckland United this afternoon. Tearing strips off their northern counterparts.

3-0 with just under 20 to go, but could easily be 5 or 6. It's been dominant from the home side this afternoon - Assisted by what has been quite sloppy & wasteful play by the Aucklanders.

Interesting bit from pre-match too - Ben Mata lives in Auckland and actually coaches at United before flying back to Wellington/around the country to link up with the Greeks for matchday. Found that bloody interesting.

Yeah that was a great performance from Olympic, very entertaining football to watch live. 

If there's one team that should be held up as the poster boys of the league its them. Fun, fast, attacking football.

Huge budget as well
Olympic.City .AU all heavily backed

Monto

YoungHe.\rt

Wellington Olympic putting on an absolute show against Auckland United this afternoon. Tearing strips off their northern counterparts.

3-0 with just under 20 to go, but could easily be 5 or 6. It's been dominant from the home side this afternoon - Assisted by what has been quite sloppy & wasteful play by the Aucklanders.

Interesting bit from pre-match too - Ben Mata lives in Auckland and actually coaches at United before flying back to Wellington/around the country to link up with the Greeks for matchday. Found that bloody interesting.

Yeah that was a great performance from Olympic, very entertaining football to watch live. 

If there's one team that should be held up as the poster boys of the league its them. Fun, fast, attacking football.

YoungHe.\rt

Wellington Olympic putting on an absolute show against Auckland United this afternoon. Tearing strips off their northern counterparts.

3-0 with just under 20 to go, but could easily be 5 or 6. It's been dominant from the home side this afternoon - Assisted by what has been quite sloppy & wasteful play by the Aucklanders.

Interesting bit from pre-match too - Ben Mata lives in Auckland and actually coaches at United before flying back to Wellington/around the country to link up with the Greeks for matchday. Found that bloody interesting.

Huge commitment for reimbursement costs of up to $150pw.

lthomas20

10cc

lthomas20

Final prediction:

1. Auckland City (GF winner)
2. Wellington Olympic
3. Miramar Rangers
4. Christchurch United
5. Birkenhead United
6. Cashmere Technical
7. Auckland United
8. Melville United
9. Phoenix Reserves
10. Napier City Rovers

Given whats going on in the womens NL, hope I'm not underestimating the Auckland teams in the mens as well, but guess we'll see. 

Based on todays  performance Miramar will be doing well to finish third from bottom instead of top.

We'll see. Cashmere is kind of just Canterbury United and Canterbury away has always been tough. 

 
And on todays performance Miramar will be doing well not to finish dead last. 

Following consultation with representatives from across football, the men's #NZNationalLeague regulations for U-20 players are going to be changing.

From 2023, U-20 players will need to account for at least 10% of a clubs available playing minutes.

— New Zealand Football (@NZ_Football) November 8, 2022

990 playing minutes per team, per game. So the U20 players from each squad would need to play, on average at least 99 minutes per match. 

Giving each club a requirement of a minimum of 1782 minutes for the Central and Southern Leagues, and 2178 minutes in the Northern League - across the season.

If I've completely bottled this then someone let me know. 😅

YoungHe.\rt

Following consultation with representatives from across football, the men's #NZNationalLeague regulations for U-20 players are going to be changing.

From 2023, U-20 players will need to account for at least 10% of a clubs available playing minutes.

— New Zealand Football (@NZ_Football) November 8, 2022

990 playing minutes per team, per game. So the U20 players from each squad would need to play, on average at least 99 minutes per match. 

Giving each club a requirement of a minimum of 1782 minutes for the Central and Southern Leagues, and 2178 minutes in the Northern League - across the season.

If I've completely bottled this then someone let me know. 😅

Probably sensible. The nature of football meant that having to have 2 U20s per match was always a bit crude. 

However I do worry that cynical teams might still stack U20 minutes against terrible opposition or sub on a bunch of kids when 4-0 up... then give them bugger all gametime in the big games. But anyway, I suppose they will get the chance regardless. 

lthomas20

YoungHe.\rt

Following consultation with representatives from across football, the men's #NZNationalLeague regulations for U-20 players are going to be changing.

From 2023, U-20 players will need to account for at least 10% of a clubs available playing minutes.

— New Zealand Football (@NZ_Football) November 8, 2022

990 playing minutes per team, per game. So the U20 players from each squad would need to play, on average at least 99 minutes per match. 

Giving each club a requirement of a minimum of 1782 minutes for the Central and Southern Leagues, and 2178 minutes in the Northern League - across the season.

If I've completely bottled this then someone let me know. 😅

Probably sensible. The nature of football meant that having to have 2 U20s per match was always a bit crude. 

However I do worry that cynical teams might still stack U20 minutes against terrible opposition or sub on a bunch of kids when 4-0 up... then give them bugger all gametime in the big games. But anyway, I suppose they will get the chance regardless. 

Would be interested to see what clubs got close to/surpassed that mark across the Northern, Central & Southern League seasons just been.

Obviously the WeeNix will probably be up at the top given that most of the squad is U20 as it is. But it would be intriguing to see how each team stacks up already.

I'd offer to do the research myself, but I don't think I could cram any more in to my week as it currently stands.

I like the idea 2x U20 transfers from the regional leagues sides that don't qualify for the National League, but I'm guessing that it will leave the door open to the pilfering of players from the lesser sides for seasons ahead which could represent a problem down the line. I guess we'll all find out how it goes down next time out.

Reading that just reminded me that it'll be interesting to see what happens to all the '02 born players next year, when they no longer fulfil the U20 quota. Quite a few players would have to find new teams, which is a bit of a flaw in the system. If you look at City and Olympic, quite a few of their current big-minute U20s will no longer be eligible: Randall, Roubos, Halikias and then Lee, Lobo, Gillion. That means they, or other older players, will have to shipped out and replaced with '03s/'04s/'05s. 

This is exactly why I cannot fathom this approach. Out to pasture and may still be worthy. Its all about numbers and it is not my idea of top level football in a country.

carlind

Reading that just reminded me that it'll be interesting to see what happens to all the '02 born players next year, when they no longer fulfil the U20 quota. Quite a few players would have to find new teams, which is a bit of a flaw in the system. If you look at City and Olympic, quite a few of their current big-minute U20s will no longer be eligible: Randall, Roubos, Halikias and then Lee, Lobo, Gillion. That means they, or other older players, will have to shipped out and replaced with '03s/'04s/'05s. 

carlind

Reading that just reminded me that it'll be interesting to see what happens to all the '02 born players next year, when they no longer fulfil the U20 quota. Quite a few players would have to find new teams, which is a bit of a flaw in the system. If you look at City and Olympic, quite a few of their current big-minute U20s will no longer be eligible: Randall, Roubos, Halikias and then Lee, Lobo, Gillion. That means they, or other older players, will have to shipped out and replaced with '03s/'04s/'05s. 

I have yet to come across a team that didn’t change out at least 2 players from season to season. Usually more than that. 
How is this different?
And it doesn’t need to be the 20 yr olds that move on. I’d have Lobo in my side any day of the week. And I realise Colloty has another year yet, but even if he was 20, Melville wouldn’t let him go without a fight.
If Mirimar don’t want Randall’s 10 goals someone else will. 
And the point here is, some of these lads may not have had the opportunity to show what they are worth with just 5 minutes at the end of games.
The quality youngsters won’t get ‘put out to pasture’, more likely as more young quality emerges the journeymen will.

NCR only need to find 9 minutes a week for someone if Oscar Mason does his 90 between the sticks.

this is a better take on the U20 rule than it was, still not sure it's needed.

However just to point out one of the flaws, I have noticed many errors from referees in regards to subbing out/in the right people in COMET so if COMET is going to be used as the only record for U20's minutes there will need to be more care taken to get this detail right. 

I wonder if any other people have noticed these kind of errors or if they are a mostly a Northern thing?

So at the end of the season they work out the % and then what happens if you are below the minimum required 10%?

Reportsare

So at the end of the season they work out the % and then what happens if you are below the minimum required 10%?

It would be pretty hard to be below the threshold to be fair - but yes it would be interesting to know what the punishments would be.

chopah

this is a better take on the U20 rule than it was, still not sure it's needed.

However just to point out one of the flaws, I have noticed many errors from referees in regards to subbing out/in the right people in COMET so if COMET is going to be used as the only record for U20's minutes there will need to be more care taken to get this detail right. 

I wonder if any other people have noticed these kind of errors or if they are a mostly a Northern thing?

  Easier in the NL with fourthies, and this might lead to sub slips being provided to officials by teams as part of the sub procedure, in the regional leagues, which would be a good thing too

zonknz

chopah

this is a better take on the U20 rule than it was, still not sure it's needed.

However just to point out one of the flaws, I have noticed many errors from referees in regards to subbing out/in the right people in COMET so if COMET is going to be used as the only record for U20's minutes there will need to be more care taken to get this detail right. 

I wonder if any other people have noticed these kind of errors or if they are a mostly a Northern thing?

  Easier in the NL with fourthies, and this might lead to sub slips being provided to officials by teams as part of the sub procedure, in the regional leagues, which would be a good thing too

I don't think any normal league games get 4th officials, maybe the live streamed game but that would be it.

NZF want all regional games to have fourthies, some feds tend to think that just takes refs away from other games, and less games get covered- (ideally feds serve their member clubs interests and not every club in a fed gets to have their first team in a regional league...).

MPL used to have 4th officials in all their  league games; unsure if that continues or not.

ClubOranje

carlind

Reading that just reminded me that it'll be interesting to see what happens to all the '02 born players next year, when they no longer fulfil the U20 quota. Quite a few players would have to find new teams, which is a bit of a flaw in the system. If you look at City and Olympic, quite a few of their current big-minute U20s will no longer be eligible: Randall, Roubos, Halikias and then Lee, Lobo, Gillion. That means they, or other older players, will have to shipped out and replaced with '03s/'04s/'05s. 

I have yet to come across a team that didn’t change out at least 2 players from season to season. Usually more than that. 
How is this different?
And it doesn’t need to be the 20 yr olds that move on. I’d have Lobo in my side any day of the week. And I realise Colloty has another year yet, but even if he was 20, Melville wouldn’t let him go without a fight.
If Mirimar don’t want Randall’s 10 goals someone else will. 
And the point here is, some of these lads may not have had the opportunity to show what they are worth with just 5 minutes at the end of games.
The quality youngsters won’t get ‘put out to pasture’, more likely as more young quality emerges the journeymen will.

I had a look at the numbers of minutes this year vs last year in the 10 teams that spent both years in the Northern League, and there is a slight decrease in minutes played by '01 born players from last year (when they fit the U20 rule) vs this year when they didn't. Last season wasn't completed so I had to extrapolate the minutes to a 22 game season. This is all assuming Transfermarkt's data is accurate.


There were also 20% more minutes given to U20s this year than last year, with big increases in '03 and '04 born players' minutes. Surprisingly '02 players went down on last year though. Every team would've fulfilled the new regulations as well. There's no real trend in giving U20s more/less minutes affecting the team's final position either; Suburbs finished 10th with the most, then Springs in 6th, Melville finished 4th and Birko 2nd. Also, 709 minutes, across four different players, were given to U17 WC eligible players this year.

17C8DD03-ED13-469A-B7FB-5DC83D2B344F.jpeg 189.62 KB

chopah

this is a better take on the U20 rule than it was, still not sure it's needed.

However just to point out one of the flaws, I have noticed many errors from referees in regards to subbing out/in the right people in COMET so if COMET is going to be used as the only record for U20's minutes there will need to be more care taken to get this detail right. 

I wonder if any other people have noticed these kind of errors or if they are a mostly a Northern thing?

Isn't there an existing layer of protection in that teams have to sign off that what was entered as correct within 90 minutes of the game ...

28.2 (mens) / 27.2 (womens) :  A Team Official of each Participant shall, within ninety (90) minutes of the final whistle, confirm the match result and match events as a true and accurate record of the match by ticking the relevant check box in the ‘other’ tab of the relevant match report in the NZF National Registration System

... I could imagine there might be some quibbling as to the exact minute that is recorded if it gets to the point that each minute might count.

Also how would minutes in injury time be calculated.  An 85th minute sub with 5 minutes of injury time, is that 10 minutes or 5?  etc

carlind

Reading that just reminded me that it'll be interesting to see what happens to all the '02 born players next year, when they no longer fulfil the U20 quota. Quite a few players would have to find new teams, which is a bit of a flaw in the system. If you look at City and Olympic, quite a few of their current big-minute U20s will no longer be eligible: Randall, Roubos, Halikias and then Lee, Lobo, Gillion. That means they, or other older players, will have to shipped out and replaced with '03s/'04s/'05s. 

Randall and Roubos have shown plenty at this level for coaches to want them in their squads and be in contention to start games.

Mitrakas (21 and doesnt qualify for a U20 spot) has been good value off the bench this season.

reubee

chopah

this is a better take on the U20 rule than it was, still not sure it's needed.

However just to point out one of the flaws, I have noticed many errors from referees in regards to subbing out/in the right people in COMET so if COMET is going to be used as the only record for U20's minutes there will need to be more care taken to get this detail right. 

I wonder if any other people have noticed these kind of errors or if they are a mostly a Northern thing?

Isn't there an existing layer of protection in that teams have to sign off that what was entered as correct within 90 minutes of the game ...

28.2 (mens) / 27.2 (womens) :  A Team Official of each Participant shall, within ninety (90) minutes of the final whistle, confirm the match result and match events as a true and accurate record of the match by ticking the relevant check box in the ‘other’ tab of the relevant match report in the NZF National Registration System

... I could imagine there might be some quibbling as to the exact minute that is recorded if it gets to the point that each minute might count.

Also how would minutes in injury time be calculated.  An 85th minute sub with 5 minutes of injury time, is that 10 minutes or 5?  etc

maybe this is a national league thing - it's not asked for or used at NRFL Div 1 level - I do my own analysis after the game to track player minutes and often find errors.  Guess I will have to report these to NRF next season to make sure the u20's minutes are getting recorded accurately.

reubee

chopah

this is a better take on the U20 rule than it was, still not sure it's needed.

However just to point out one of the flaws, I have noticed many errors from referees in regards to subbing out/in the right people in COMET so if COMET is going to be used as the only record for U20's minutes there will need to be more care taken to get this detail right. 

I wonder if any other people have noticed these kind of errors or if they are a mostly a Northern thing?

Isn't there an existing layer of protection in that teams have to sign off that what was entered as correct within 90 minutes of the game ...

28.2 (mens) / 27.2 (womens) :  A Team Official of each Participant shall, within ninety (90) minutes of the final whistle, confirm the match result and match events as a true and accurate record of the match by ticking the relevant check box in the ‘other’ tab of the relevant match report in the NZF National Registration System

... I could imagine there might be some quibbling as to the exact minute that is recorded if it gets to the point that each minute might count.

Also how would minutes in injury time be calculated.  An 85th minute sub with 5 minutes of injury time, is that 10 minutes or 5?  etc

Injury \ referees time (whatever its called) is used to make up for stopages in the 90 minutes, so when counting these minutes injury time will be ignored - I think thats what they are doing anyway. 

Still think its a stupid rule - if you look at the last 3 All Whites squads the only players selected that didn't come through the NZ National League were Winston Reid, Dane Ingham & Storm Roux - so what is the problem they are trying to solve?

The JourneyFan

reubee

chopah

this is a better take on the U20 rule than it was, still not sure it's needed.

However just to point out one of the flaws, I have noticed many errors from referees in regards to subbing out/in the right people in COMET so if COMET is going to be used as the only record for U20's minutes there will need to be more care taken to get this detail right. 

I wonder if any other people have noticed these kind of errors or if they are a mostly a Northern thing?

Isn't there an existing layer of protection in that teams have to sign off that what was entered as correct within 90 minutes of the game ...

28.2 (mens) / 27.2 (womens) :  A Team Official of each Participant shall, within ninety (90) minutes of the final whistle, confirm the match result and match events as a true and accurate record of the match by ticking the relevant check box in the ‘other’ tab of the relevant match report in the NZF National Registration System

... I could imagine there might be some quibbling as to the exact minute that is recorded if it gets to the point that each minute might count.

Also how would minutes in injury time be calculated.  An 85th minute sub with 5 minutes of injury time, is that 10 minutes or 5?  etc

Injury \ referees time (whatever its called) is used to make up for stopages in the 90 minutes, so when counting these minutes injury time will be ignored - I think thats what they are doing anyway. 

Still think its a stupid rule - if you look at the last 3 All Whites squads the only players selected that didn't come through the NZ National League were Winston Reid, Dane Ingham & Storm Roux - so what is the problem they are trying to solve?

completely agree - especially when combined with TDP and club licensing, they literally have two other avenues to help produce youth without manufacturing it so you have to literally ask why is this rule in place, however the new interpretation is better than the previous one, hopefully it's a move to phasing it out altogether.

chopah

reubee

chopah

this is a better take on the U20 rule than it was, still not sure it's needed.

However just to point out one of the flaws, I have noticed many errors from referees in regards to subbing out/in the right people in COMET so if COMET is going to be used as the only record for U20's minutes there will need to be more care taken to get this detail right. 

I wonder if any other people have noticed these kind of errors or if they are a mostly a Northern thing?

Isn't there an existing layer of protection in that teams have to sign off that what was entered as correct within 90 minutes of the game ...

28.2 (mens) / 27.2 (womens) :  A Team Official of each Participant shall, within ninety (90) minutes of the final whistle, confirm the match result and match events as a true and accurate record of the match by ticking the relevant check box in the ‘other’ tab of the relevant match report in the NZF National Registration System

... I could imagine there might be some quibbling as to the exact minute that is recorded if it gets to the point that each minute might count.

Also how would minutes in injury time be calculated.  An 85th minute sub with 5 minutes of injury time, is that 10 minutes or 5?  etc

maybe this is a national league thing - it's not asked for or used at NRFL Div 1 level - I do my own analysis after the game to track player minutes and often find errors.  Guess I will have to report these to NRF next season to make sure the u20's minutes are getting recorded accurately.

I was quoting the playing regulations available on the NFF site.    The fact that you say it is not implemented as regulated may explain how you were unaware of the Western Springs substitution fiasco at the time in the womens league this season.  

reubee

chopah

reubee

chopah

this is a better take on the U20 rule than it was, still not sure it's needed.

However just to point out one of the flaws, I have noticed many errors from referees in regards to subbing out/in the right people in COMET so if COMET is going to be used as the only record for U20's minutes there will need to be more care taken to get this detail right. 

I wonder if any other people have noticed these kind of errors or if they are a mostly a Northern thing?

Isn't there an existing layer of protection in that teams have to sign off that what was entered as correct within 90 minutes of the game ...

28.2 (mens) / 27.2 (womens) :  A Team Official of each Participant shall, within ninety (90) minutes of the final whistle, confirm the match result and match events as a true and accurate record of the match by ticking the relevant check box in the ‘other’ tab of the relevant match report in the NZF National Registration System

... I could imagine there might be some quibbling as to the exact minute that is recorded if it gets to the point that each minute might count.

Also how would minutes in injury time be calculated.  An 85th minute sub with 5 minutes of injury time, is that 10 minutes or 5?  etc

maybe this is a national league thing - it's not asked for or used at NRFL Div 1 level - I do my own analysis after the game to track player minutes and often find errors.  Guess I will have to report these to NRF next season to make sure the u20's minutes are getting recorded accurately.

I was quoting the playing regulations available on the NFF site.    The fact that you say it is not implemented as regulated may explain how you were unaware of the Western Springs substitution fiasco at the time in the womens league this season.  

I think the only person live who realised that error was Jeremy Ruane - his tweet was what kicked off that inquiry, but that's another story.

Tight at the top - unlikely that Olympic or City drop any points here but if they do AU will likely be in. 

Olympic v City is probably the right final and the two best teams. Auckland United can feel hard done by though, given they are the only team to have beaten City this season either domestically or in Oceania, and they have done so twice.

Can the lack of posts on this forum topic be an indicator into the lack of interest in the National league in general this year (particulary the last few weeks)?? I know I have lost interest and havent really been following it closely. I know for a fact and I think you can see in some performances that the players have lost interest and have said the season is too long. 

Depends on who you speak to... I know the Olympic players and supporters are pretty interested. I am guessing City as well and up until this week, Birko, United and Melville were probably interested too. I for one was never interested in Franchise league and the season was just long, if not longer for those playing both winter and summer. But I know of others who were. Horses for courses I guess.

Delta

Can the lack of posts on this forum topic be an indicator into the lack of interest in the National league in general this year (particulary the last few weeks)?? I know I have lost interest and havent really been following it closely. I know for a fact and I think you can see in some performances that the players have lost interest and have said the season is too long. 

Nahh I don't think it can, theres still alot of chat elsewhere like Twitter
bit worrying if people think a 30 game season is too long

What they do probably need to do is make the NL round a top 4 and have one of semi finals and then a final. 

As it is next weekends round is really a nothing round as the finalists have been decided and as the final is at a neutral venue (probably in Auckland) it doesn't really matter who finishes 1st or 2nd

Delta

Can the lack of posts on this forum topic be an indicator into the lack of interest in the National league in general this year (particulary the last few weeks)?? I know I have lost interest and havent really been following it closely. I know for a fact and I think you can see in some performances that the players have lost interest and have said the season is too long. 

I lost interest as soon as my club didn't make it. I know that's particularly selfish and will attract the comments of "your club should do better" but it is what it is. 

Delta

Can the lack of posts on this forum topic be an indicator into the lack of interest in the National league in general this year (particulary the last few weeks)?? I know I have lost interest and havent really been following it closely. I know for a fact and I think you can see in some performances that the players have lost interest and have said the season is too long. 

There was a lot more interest and excitement in the old format. This is just a watered down competition. Even the crowd/supporters are dwindling. 

I have heard more about this comp than previous models, and on a couple of my chats, some of the lads have been posting the links to the games etc.

Football has been ok to watch IMO.

Personally I've really enjoyed following Olympic this year, fun football with lots of attacking intent. I never really got along to TW games just because getting out to Miramar is a bit of a hassle from kapiti.

As for crowd I think there's the opportunity to grow them with the right advertising. The football really isn't that bad at the top and if it gets promoted right and played at the right venue there's the chance to get people on board. I think also due to being local it's less likely to have the eurosnob disdain that the A-League gets simply because it's developing kiwi talent to send to Europe.

VimFuego

Delta

Can the lack of posts on this forum topic be an indicator into the lack of interest in the National league in general this year (particulary the last few weeks)?? I know I have lost interest and havent really been following it closely. I know for a fact and I think you can see in some performances that the players have lost interest and have said the season is too long. 

I lost interest as soon as my club didn't make it. I know that's particularly selfish and will attract the comments of "your club should do better" but it is what it is. 

jeepers that would have been in April then

false 9

VimFuego

Delta

Can the lack of posts on this forum topic be an indicator into the lack of interest in the National league in general this year (particulary the last few weeks)?? I know I have lost interest and havent really been following it closely. I know for a fact and I think you can see in some performances that the players have lost interest and have said the season is too long. 

I lost interest as soon as my club didn't make it. I know that's particularly selfish and will attract the comments of "your club should do better" but it is what it is. 

jeepers that would have been in April then

Lol and ouch.