NZFC future (take 10 - plus Cantab fail)
E + R + O
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Michael Glading on RS now... sounds like Cantabs gone, budget too high... can't get the $$$$$.
E + R + O
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Acouple of other teams might fold aswell 
. Hopefully there are atleast 6 who make the starting line
. Hopefully there are atleast 6 who make the starting line
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Last i heard it was all looking quite good. Two of last years basket cases solid, even Canterbury sounded okay. I wonder what's happened to change that.
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Sounds like the gaming trusts, suddenly(sp?) lost a bit of their revenue and those franchises reliey on them to run their team. Otago probably has the same problem as canterbury.
If those two team did pull out, a Noth Island Comp with
Auckland
Waitakere
Waikato
Hawkes Bay
Manawatu
Wellington Phoenix reserves/ Team Wellington
This wouldn't be the end of the world.
For the youth league the nix could have under20 team, made up of local wellington talent?
Everton FC2009-06-16 11:48:45
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Team Welly and Phoenix reserves are two very seperate entities, with different staff and different goals.
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But would there be enough players for team wellington after the nix did their reserve squad?
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The Phoenix plan is to not touch existing NZFC sides.
They want to sign 6-8 youngsters from NZ (and possibly Aus) who aren't currently with NZFC sides and bolster it with the non-playing reserves from the first team squad.
Team Wellington will still be the side with the top players in the region.
They want to sign 6-8 youngsters from NZ (and possibly Aus) who aren't currently with NZFC sides and bolster it with the non-playing reserves from the first team squad.
Team Wellington will still be the side with the top players in the region.
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True. Have the nix got permission for non-playing reserves from the first team squad to play in the NZFC yet from Fifa or whoever they need to sign it off?
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No, they are chasing approvals all over the place.
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Perhaps the Nix shoud now base their reserves out of Canterbury. They have always produced good young players. Didn't some guy called Ryan Nelson come from down that way?. The nix also seem to have good general support. Makes perfect sense.
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Perhaps the Nix shoud now base their reserves out of Canterbury. They have always produced good young players. Didn't some guy called Ryan Nelson come from down that way?. The nix also seem to have good general support. Makes perfect sense.
Costs would be the only problem
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....not the only problem.
It has some merits but would be hard to slip players in and our of the two squads which is a requirement, would also kill off any plans for curtain raisers and TV coverage of those curtain raisers.
It has some merits but would be hard to slip players in and our of the two squads which is a requirement, would also kill off any plans for curtain raisers and TV coverage of those curtain raisers.
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They could be based in wellington, play curtain raisers but play in christchurch when the Phoenix are away. But then crowd numbers could be a problem...maby an odd game?
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None the issues raised are insurmountable, just needs some creativity.
Money - why would it be a problem? Cty could put some money into it, as its a great path for their youth. A carrot of NZFC and the Nix for their youth to aim at, I'm sure they would jump at it as a lower cost option than straight NZFC.
Players could still move between squads easily enough - the travel time Wgtn to Chch is only 1 hour.
Curtain raisers- the rezzies could play at home (ctby) when the Nix are away and travel to wgtn for home games.
Crowd numbers - how many turn up now for Ctby?
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None the issues raised are insurmountable, just needs some creativity.
Money - why would it be a problem? Cty could put some money into it, as its a great path for their youth.
What money? Are Canterbury Federation loaded?
What about hooking it up with this Everton acacdemy thing?
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Isn't it a sad indictment of NZF that Canty feel they need to make a stand and withdraw. How are the franchises supposed to seek sponsorship (not trust money) when they don't know what the final product is going to be? Please sponsor us,but not sure what format theleague is going to be or anything else....... It seems to me that NZF doesn't want this competition and are trying to let it die a death, but are not offering anything else in its stead.
Otago will be next.
Otago will be next.
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They certauinly haven't made any effort to indicate they want it, and I suspect you are right about Otago.
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With the decision for Canterbury to resign from the NZFC the time is right to go back to Regional leagues Nothern,Central andSouth.Go back to a 10 team Club National League,promotion and relegation and go back to a Naming Regional right sponsor worth $25,000 and form a Football Association to run the game
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...and hello to (even more) personal self-interest and goodbye to any profile for national football.
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Perhaps the Nix shoud now base their reserves out of Canterbury. They have always produced good young players. Didn't some guy called Ryan Nelson come from down that way?. The nix also seem to have good general support. Makes perfect sense.
That's a great idea - avoids the 'Nix reserves cannibalising TW support.
They wouldn't even need to be based there - just travel down for home games.
Sounds like a win-win.
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...and hello to (even more) personal self-interest and goodbye to any profile for national football.
Yep, there's egomaniac club chairman all over the country just praying for the NZFC to collapse.
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Impressively simplistic for you Mr X. There was a long history of personal fiefdom's and players missing out on a chance to play at the highest level because of club loyalties either from players or those running the club. One of the great advantages of the NZFC is that it can bypass that and make a more concerted effort to make sure all the best players are playing at the highest level.
I'd also like to think it would mean less money for football is wasted on salaries for amateur players but needless to say some clubs at regional level have managed to find a way to waste hundreds of thousands to win something like a Northern league or Central league title (or just to avoid relegation from one of them).
I'd also like to think it would mean less money for football is wasted on salaries for amateur players but needless to say some clubs at regional level have managed to find a way to waste hundreds of thousands to win something like a Northern league or Central league title (or just to avoid relegation from one of them).
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Hello there. First let me declare that I am a club chairman.
We can't afford the national league. And we can't afford not to have one. For every spectator through the gate we probably need another $50 to make it work financially. If the trust fund gravy train is over, we will need a new financial model.
But we do need a national competition of some sort.
However, Mr News, I do want to comment on you jibe on wasted money in regional leagues..
The club is the basic unit of the game the world over. A good club gives all related to it a sense of belonging.
There is a degree of unreality in the NZFC in that "entitites" do not face the spectre of relegation, whereas for regional clubs, for better or worse, it really concentrates the mind.
At NZFC level it's "who cares" if your team finishes last. At regional level it means a great deal, and there is a tremendous motive force to avoid that. It can affect the very fabric of the club and it's all part of belonging.
When clubs spend money on players it is usually a back-handed acknowledgement of the competitiveness of the league they are in, and that it is something worth winning, or being part of. If it wasn't clubs wouldn't bother. In my experience, the more competitvie a league, the more money tends to be spent.
At lower level clubs usually rely on a small cabal of driven people. They contribute money or time because they are imbued with that sense of belonging. Nobody spends money they don't have to.
The challenge we face at national league level is getting enough bums on seats to pay for a relatively expensive structure (BTW a league manager should be bringing money in, not draining reserves). The next challenge is getting that same sense of belonging off the pitch.
In the old days (pre 1993) that did exist. At national league level you tended to get the best people in the best clubs. I'm not so sure these days. It is not quite so tribal -- or as collegial. And there is not the same sense of ownership. Too many people, usually federation trouts, trot out those hackneyed lines about the national league as just part of "a pathway".
But look, it has to be far more important than that. It has to be a league where people really care, and it is part of a never-ending story. It has to be valued as something aesthetic in itself, rather than a means towards a greater end.
One of the beauties about regional league football is I can watch my team ever week. I can't afford to do that at national league level. It's every second week (or in Waikato's case, five weeks in a row, then nothing for two months) and as the result the chemistry tends to be all different, and a little bit more distant.
And I say that as a longtime fan, who watched my first national league match over 30 years ago.
I haven't got any glib answers, but can appreciate some hefty challenges.
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I think the biggest concern in that Bruce is that if that game was at Muir Park and involved Hamilton AFC there is every chance I was behind one of the goals ignoring the same match.
One thing I will say though is that surely the NZFC 'entities' bear more resemblance to the majority fo the worlds actual 'cubs'. I mean, it's not like an English professional club has the chance for a fat and rubbish 41yo turn up and play masters football, for that you and your mate Disastrous Dale play for Little Warburton Anglers FC (or London Poly) but the club you live and die for is more likely to be the entity playing in the 30,000 seat overly debt ridden structure in the nearest major conurbation.
The entities you talk about belonging to are (in most parts of the world) a spectator only membership. There is s seperation between that and the social club model with teams at all levels that exists here.
I have no major problems with a win bonus here and there, or a few expenses, but when clubs may have a payment bill close to $100k is that really the best use of funding gathered from the clubs more social members and the trusts that are meant to invest in improvement of the game ?
One thing I will say though is that surely the NZFC 'entities' bear more resemblance to the majority fo the worlds actual 'cubs'. I mean, it's not like an English professional club has the chance for a fat and rubbish 41yo turn up and play masters football, for that you and your mate Disastrous Dale play for Little Warburton Anglers FC (or London Poly) but the club you live and die for is more likely to be the entity playing in the 30,000 seat overly debt ridden structure in the nearest major conurbation.
The entities you talk about belonging to are (in most parts of the world) a spectator only membership. There is s seperation between that and the social club model with teams at all levels that exists here.
I have no major problems with a win bonus here and there, or a few expenses, but when clubs may have a payment bill close to $100k is that really the best use of funding gathered from the clubs more social members and the trusts that are meant to invest in improvement of the game ?
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How embarrassing. As a fan who has been to almost every Canty Utd match over the years, it is not only disappointing our team is not going to be there next year, but the fact that football in our region has nothing further to aim for. There are not many countries in the world that don't have a national league. And Canty (and NZ football for that matter) are doing their best to destroy the weak one we have.
Where do the footballers in the region go now? Especially as our youth team might not be allowed in too! Fuego Junior is a promising player, should I ship him to Manchester now?
I let my guitar speak for me
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No, Wellington.
Oh please, I watch the A-League too you know. I let my guitar speak for me
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NZFC yoof, star A-League season at 18. Championship at 20, 5 million pound move to the Premiership at 22.
Done.
Done.
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You forgot the 80 million pound move to Madrid at 24 .... 
Gangsta!2009-06-16 22:34:28
Gangsta!2009-06-16 22:34:28
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You all know I wish better (me and my dreams of professionalism), but the actual reality is only the two Auckland clubs and Wellington has the sponsorship catchment area to fuel their financial for the NZFC.
I thought that Christchurch may have the ability to stick up there with Auckland and Wellington teams but being bottom in the NZFC for a couple of seasons would have affect them. Waikato FC was affected already last season as the stadium cost was too much. I actually thought the other NZFC teams would have called it before Chch.
But no money, no fun.
In a country of four million and long distances to travel for semi-professional teams on a shoestring budget and small crowds, it was always a problem.
I think that unless Soccer gets more popular, it will not sustain or grow the national championship.
Anyway heres the lowdown on the past national championship to paint a picture: (I forgotten where I cut and pasted it from but here it is)
I thought that Christchurch may have the ability to stick up there with Auckland and Wellington teams but being bottom in the NZFC for a couple of seasons would have affect them. Waikato FC was affected already last season as the stadium cost was too much. I actually thought the other NZFC teams would have called it before Chch.
But no money, no fun.
In a country of four million and long distances to travel for semi-professional teams on a shoestring budget and small crowds, it was always a problem.
I think that unless Soccer gets more popular, it will not sustain or grow the national championship.
Anyway heres the lowdown on the past national championship to paint a picture: (I forgotten where I cut and pasted it from but here it is)
1970-1992 National Soccer League
Home and away games. Disbanded due to financial reasons to many clubs.
1993-1995 Superclub
To keep costs down, the 30 teams participating were divided into three regional groups. This was followed by an eight team national stage (involving only seven matches) and a short championship stage.
The increase in the number of teams participating for the championship, as well as lack of true national league system caused a strong drop in playing standards.
It was clear that New Zealand not only needed a national league, but also one which was financially stable.
1996-1998 National Summer Soccer League
Teams were invited to participate and the selection criteria involved the financial strength of the club and its location. The league also featured a championship play-off session at the end of the seasons, involving teams finishing high in the table.
In 1999, the National Soccer League again took a break.
The competition for determining the New Zealand champion was moved back to (mostly) winter months. Two leagues were created, the North Island Soccer League (NISL) and the South Island Soccer League (SISL). The winner of the NISL, Central United, defeated the winner of the SISL, Dunedin Technical, 3-1, in extra time, in the championship final.
In 2000-2003, National Soccer League was launched for the third time.
Like the original in 1970, it was played during (mostly) winter months and a promotion and relegation system was used. The championship play-offs system at the end of the league was the major difference when compared with the competition launched in 1970.
2004 was the transition year between the National Soccer League and the New Zealand Football championship. Regional competitions were played but no New Zealand champion was determined.
2004 New Zealand Football Championship was launched (NZFC).
It marked a turning point in the history of the game in New Zealand, as for the first time, traditional clubs were not eligible to participate in the top league. They were replaced by eight franchise style entities. To improve financial stability and team playing standards and crowd support and break away from the traditional club bias.
Home and away games. Disbanded due to financial reasons to many clubs.
1993-1995 Superclub
To keep costs down, the 30 teams participating were divided into three regional groups. This was followed by an eight team national stage (involving only seven matches) and a short championship stage.
The increase in the number of teams participating for the championship, as well as lack of true national league system caused a strong drop in playing standards.
It was clear that New Zealand not only needed a national league, but also one which was financially stable.
1996-1998 National Summer Soccer League
Teams were invited to participate and the selection criteria involved the financial strength of the club and its location. The league also featured a championship play-off session at the end of the seasons, involving teams finishing high in the table.
In 1999, the National Soccer League again took a break.
The competition for determining the New Zealand champion was moved back to (mostly) winter months. Two leagues were created, the North Island Soccer League (NISL) and the South Island Soccer League (SISL). The winner of the NISL, Central United, defeated the winner of the SISL, Dunedin Technical, 3-1, in extra time, in the championship final.
In 2000-2003, National Soccer League was launched for the third time.
Like the original in 1970, it was played during (mostly) winter months and a promotion and relegation system was used. The championship play-offs system at the end of the league was the major difference when compared with the competition launched in 1970.
2004 was the transition year between the National Soccer League and the New Zealand Football championship. Regional competitions were played but no New Zealand champion was determined.
2004 New Zealand Football Championship was launched (NZFC).
It marked a turning point in the history of the game in New Zealand, as for the first time, traditional clubs were not eligible to participate in the top league. They were replaced by eight franchise style entities. To improve financial stability and team playing standards and crowd support and break away from the traditional club bias.
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You all know I wish better (me and my dreams of professionalism), but the actual reality is only the two Auckland clubs and Wellington has the sponsorship catchment area to fuel their financial for the NZFC.
why only those two? chch has a bigger population than wellington. didn't wellington have no money last season and almost pull out????
I thought that Christchurch may have the ability to stick up there with Auckland and Wellington teams but being bottom in the NZFC for a couple of seasons would have affect them. Waikato FC was affected already last season as the stadium cost was too much. I actually thought the other NZFC teams would have called it before Chch.
whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat? waikato played at ngaruawhahia didn't they? probably the sh*ttest, and cheapest, field in the league.
But no money, no fun.
is that a comment on your sex life?
why only those two? chch has a bigger population than wellington. didn't wellington have no money last season and almost pull out????
I thought that Christchurch may have the ability to stick up there with Auckland and Wellington teams but being bottom in the NZFC for a couple of seasons would have affect them. Waikato FC was affected already last season as the stadium cost was too much. I actually thought the other NZFC teams would have called it before Chch.
whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat? waikato played at ngaruawhahia didn't they? probably the sh*ttest, and cheapest, field in the league.
But no money, no fun.
is that a comment on your sex life?
If the nzfc dies then we just can't have a national league. End of story. Can't afford it.
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One thing I will say though is that surely the NZFC 'entities' bear more resemblance to the majority fo the worlds actual 'cubs'. I mean, it's not like an English professional club has the chance for a fat and rubbish 41yo turn up and play masters football, for that you and your mate Disastrous Dale play for Little Warburton Anglers FC (or London Poly) but the club you live and die for is more likely to be the entity playing in the 30,000 seat overly debt ridden structure in the nearest major conurbation.
Stuff Little Warburton Anglers. They're going down faster than the oranje.
Hillcrest FTW.
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It is shocking to me what has happened to cty united with no reaction at all pretty much. This is the biggest cop out ever. I will follow up with some points specific to cty, but just had to say thank god for hard news and his restoring my faith that someone has a brain. Tribalism in football in this country will kill the game once and for good if allowed to take hold.
Guys, please forget about the english style club league, it just doesnt work. Use canty as an example, before caty utd what did we have. CHCH city who played in yellow (woolston tech) and at garrick park in front of 30-40 ppl who stood on the outside round a rope. In short it was a joke. And you guys want that back.
Thats just a bit of a rant. I do link the tribalism to the demise of canty united somewhat but the reason i link the two is that i know there are several ppl across the country and in chch that are happy because they think this is the big chance for their little empire. And im my opinion those ppl are engineering the death of NZ football.
If anyone cares i will post more on caty utd, in fact i probably will anyway
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It is not tribalism that is killing the game. It is LACK or dearth of tribalism, lack of a sense of belonging with the NZFC.
In its 2008 balance sheet, Canterbury United recorded grants of $269,268.00
And gate receipts of $18,207 -- not even enough to cover its accountancy, audit, insurance, office and telephone costs.
Too many costs, too few paying punters who felt the NZFC mattered to them. And this was meant to be or last chance.
I haven't heard anyone cheering Canterbury's demise -- let us know if you have....
But if a few blokes behind a rope can keep a national league of any sort afloat in 2009, let's stand with them in the interim. If anyone is brave enough to take on the major financial challenge, let's be having them.
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errr, didn't the clubs abandon their club based national league in the early 90s because those blokes behind the rope couldn't keep the national league afloat?
you are living in some la-la land and it's probably because you are one of these very people who has a little empire he'd like to be emperor of.
the nzfc needs pokie money to survive, but so would clubs if they filled the gap...so nothing would change there just the standard would drop like a stone in terms of players coaches facilities administration and everything
no nzfc? then we just can't have a national league...end of. back to regional club leagues and rely on the chatham cup for our national compettion.
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Bruce, you are now arguing the definition of tribalism. different debate.
Rumors are abound already that Both Burnside and Woolston Tech are interested in launching bids.
If those two clubs are in that sort of financial position than what is their opposition to getting in and supporting Canty utd? That way that they can assure the best possible pathway for their clubs juniors, A decent standard of football at a national level. Do you think that standard is in Red at English park or brown at burnside park?
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If you havent been to burnside park by the way, Think a big open field.
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