Waitak in DIA investigation

Teza and Jeff you are in absolute dreamland if you think that people should put in the time and effort for no compensation at all while complaining at the same time about the quality of the product. Your example of Kris Carpenter is flawed as he probably still has dreams of being a professional footballer down the line as he is still only young so that should give him the drive and determination to keep training... and what else is he going to do instead of train at that age? play playstation? Alot of the senior players at NZFC clubs (who Kris will be learning alot off) have careers, family, kids, wives, mistresses etc that they have to balance and keep happy- ofthen players have to take time off work without pay to travel - particularly for O league games. jonesy92009-11-26 13:53:28

Jonesy, agree with your comments.

The burning issues surrunding compensating or reimbursing palyers are serious and pressing. Does that mean that groups can apply pokie money for a stated purpose and once got the pokie money can spend it on other matters? From what was said, Waitak stated pokie money was for junior development and was it ok to spend it players' reimbursmenets or whatever? If so, groups can misrepresent and misspent the purpsoe of money applied for, right?

Bruce - what gates were they getting then? could be an incentive for players and franchises to put on a more entertaining product, fans to get more mates to come along and even players to get more friends and family to come to matches

 

yeah but it's quite cimple to do both.  Trust money goes on gear, euqipment, travel etc and money raised from other sources (i.e. half a mil from the club world cup) goes on wages etc.

 

Aaah yes, that little known quality called integrity ..........

I'd agree with you if this wasn't an amateur competition. It is though, and I don't. Want money and compensation, play professionally.

The Kris Carpenter argument is actually quite valid. Why should he not be compensated for training as hard as the others, because he is not married with kids and is still young? Thats a valid measuring stick..... By that token then why are pay Vicelich when he has been overseas and made all his money. Surely he doesn't need it. If players need their petrol covered, give them a fuel card and have it covered. At least that way, its all above board and its a reimbursement of actual expenses occurred or the players doesn't incur those expenses.

We can go round and round in circles with counter arguments either way and we wont agree. Fundamentally, it is an amateur league and money should not be involved and the money that is involved, is not there because of the right reasons, regardless whether it is good for the game or not. If you don't like the committment based on that criteria, do what Gareth Rowe did for years and don't play and (I'm sure) like Steve Holloway is doing right now.
Jeff Vader2009-11-28 21:14:51

Note apology in the SST today for linking the chairman of the trust with a role on the board at Waitakere. Poor reporting if they got that wrong, and I also offer my apologies to the gentleman concerned.

I know of at least two other signiifcant rugby unions who have done this.

Another common practice in Union and League is the 'captive gaming trust' where the purposes of the trust are so narrow that they can only benefit one sport.

There are a few points that need to be clarified here.

Firstly, the DIA and the Trusts set the rules outlining what funds can be used for. Every club (regardless of the level) has to play by the same rules, and have the same opportunities. From my understanding, the rules state that these funds can be used for things such as travel, gear and coaching, provided that the costings are realistic.

That means that Waitak and ACFC (or any other club) are within their rights to employ a player to do some coaching - provided that they are being paid a realistic amount, and that the Trust issuing the money sees benefit for the community in spending that money.

For example, if a player being employed in a coaching role is being paid $100k a year, it's obviously an unrealistic amount. If they're being paid $20k, then it's perfectly acceptable as it's a fair "market price" for that service.

Whilst I don't know the ins and outs, my understanding is that Ivan and Key are both getting paid a retainer for their coaching at the academy - but it is only a small portion of what their overall deal is. I can also attest to the work that they both do in this regards as I have seen them both out doing it. Central United's academy provided 8 of the U17 squad that was in Nigeria recently - and that's only a small portion of the boys who attend. I don't know about what other clubs do as far as academy coaching goes, but I know that a large portion of their Trillian Trust money goes towards running the academy, as the Trust agrees that there is a significant community benefit. Obviously some of the money goes on gear and travel etc - in the same manner that Trillian sponsor Surf Lifesaving and other activities. Ultimately, if the Trust doesn't see value for the community in the service being offered, they wouldn't and shouldn't fund it. If the DIA disagrees with the Trust, then independent investigation can only be a good thing to keep a level playing field for everyone.

What everyone here also needs to remember, is that if this money wasn't being used by football clubs, it's available for any other organisation. Surely you'd all prefer that it's reinvested into the sport?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to vindicate ACFC in particular - I am 100% for any organisation being punished if they break the rules. What I am trying to do is broaden the narrow views of some of the opinions here. Just because Trust funding is issued, doesn't necessarily mean it's for paying players.

Cnut, I'm not really sure you're telling us anything we didn't already know, but I'll respond to a couple of points.  Yes you are right that trust funding doesn't necessarily mean that you are paying players and I've argued above the same point. james dean2009-12-02 02:52:43

This has been discussed previously and is 'bollocks.' The Central Academy has not produced these kids,or at the very least not all of them! Other clubs have produced these kids and Central have acquired/bought/enticed them however you want to word it at a later date.

EG. Adam Thomas, Alex Carr, Luis Estevez all produced in the Waikato

But obviously felt that Central was offering them something they couldn't get by staying put. Smithy2009-12-02 10:50:50

Dont want to discuss it just fed up with the claims that this trust money being spent on coaching is warranted because of the 8 players provided by Central to the U17's (so not off topic really)

Yes they saw something being offered by moving, NZFC team aligned with the club (ACFC) and the financial benefits offered compared to staying where they had been developed, allegedly financed by this misuse of trust money..?

I have heard of players in the ACFC Academy choosing to stay in the Academy as opposed to moving to play 1st team NZFC elsewhere because they were getting 'paid' more 'expenses' to train in their home town than they would have received to travel to Hamilton for example...?

How can travel expenses be greater to train in Auckland for an Auckland based player than that same player travelling to Hamilton...?????

Nicely brought back onto topic...I like it.

Why doesn't a Waikato club setup and run an academy in the same vein that Central do - their NZFC team would be able to benefit in the same way that ACFC does. They're not doing anything that any other club can't emulate if they're prepared to put the effort in to establish it and keep it going. Pretty simple really.

But they can't because ACFC/Central offer them more 'expenses'. Granted the opportunity is greater and that alone would sway most people but its not soley about opportunity. As was mentioned up, Auckland based players getting more in 'expenses' than the same one traveling to Hamilton... Thas doesn't add up.

Hahahaha
this is really getting pathetic!!!
So now ACFC are paying Academy players
absolute B#llsh*t!!!

Happyted - this is the first and only time I'll agree with you, but I find all of that a bit unbelievable as well