Wishes for the new ASBP season

If I give Otago $500k like ACFC, they will do what ACFC do and put out a team of imports to try and win the league because in theory import>local player and probably more so in Dunedin. Yes the talent pool in Auckland of Kiwi players is larger than anywhere else in the country (as a reasonable statement to make) but its not those Kiwi players that are playing for ACFC. Its the imports that are bought with that money. Take a large chunk of that money away, and you take away a fair chunk of those imports meaning they actually have to play Kiwi talent and putting them on the same footing as other teams. You then restore some balance to the competition but also the difference in local talent has a chance to come out. At the moment it does not because its 9 Otago guys and 2 imports vs 7 imports and 4 Auckland guys

The point that I do agree with is that you have to raise the others up and not lower the top dogs but again, the premise around that is evening out that pokie funding so that all teams compete on an equal footing. That's when the difference in talent stands out and not the difference on how many imports you can pay

I also thought it was a bloody good article from Steven last week on the state of the ASBP.

Bruce, your summary is precise and nothing less than I would expect.   You make a good point regarding the funding - recruitment variable.   I have had a wander through the most recent financial statements posted by the teams and it is not a surprise to see that the teams with the most funding (and consequently the highest team costs) are at the top of the table.

Auckland City - $567,345 income from grants and sponsorships.   Personnel expenses are $419,552 (does not include administration as this is a separate line item), team costs $113,957.

Waitakere Utd - $384,537 from grants and sponsorships, less $250,000 team expenses

Canterbury - $182,506 from grants and sponsorships, less $110,000 teams costs.

And so we go on.   The advantage that the Auckland based teams has is the general population, which equates to more pokie machines, which equates to more money available, etc.   The argument that one organisation is "better" than another at producing grant applications does not hold water (I say that as some one who has had experience of grant applications for 15 years) - I have seen some absolutely stunning applications, not by me, that have been turned down for various reasons.

Totally off topic ol'sole but that is a striking resemblance you have as your avatar. You must've bought a new digital camera?

Good morning JD.

First of all, in regard to the competiveness/location question you are very conveniently ignoring a couple of statements I've already made in previous posts:

"you’re dead right - another franchise or two in Auckland would do a lot to rebalance the talent in a way that doesn’t place unreasonable expectations on players to move"

"As mentioned above though you may be right that there simply isn't enough talent in somewhere like Dunedin to even consider having a franchise in the first place"

So yes, I do agree with you that location and the relative strengths/weaknesses of the surrounding player pool is a factor. You are relying very heavily on Dunedin as an example, however, and I don’t think the problem of having a sufficiently large catchment area is nearly as bad in other parts of the country, including pretty much the entire North Island (also, Dunedin’s population is more like 120,000 rather than the 60,000 you’ve stated). That said, I still think that Jeff, Bruce and ol’Sole are right. The competitiveness of ACFC and Waitakere has more to do with funding and recruitment than it does Auckland’s population size.

At the end of the day, however, I couldn't give two hoots about debating with you whether pokie machine funding is the major factor in competitiveness or not. The fact is, it is a very significant factor and it needs to be dealt with (for that and other reasons).

So if the concept of an “expenditure cap” is just too offensive to you how about we approach the issue in another way? After all, I’ve already said I don’t care if a franchise can generate (and spend) more money than others though more legitimate means than pokie grants. The real problem here is the pokie money so why not just look to fix that? In fact, I don’t even care about pokie grants for capital projects. If you want to improve your facilities that’s great. Let’s focus specifically on pokie money being used to pay operating expenses, including salaries, wages etc. Two suggestions:

1.  Centralise all pokie funding for operating costs for the league. NZF or another body make a single grant application on behalf of the league and distribute it evenly across the franchises. Franchises would not be allowed to apply for any other pokie funding. This would need the agreement of the DIA because this is technically outside the rules as currently written. Would also need the agreement of a willing trust.

2.  If that won’t work then leave franchises to apply for their own pokie funding but put a cap on the operating. Could be policed through reviewing accounts and maybe even making franchises submit copies of applications to NZF.

Pretty stupid and petty post JV, Ali just likes supporting ACFC and the ASBP and is an honest lad. This "troll" nonsense should be ditched. I just love the way all you posters who hide your real names are usually the first to mock others.

You realise your name isn't visible either right? 

My name was on my profile in the past and I've put it back. Don't know why it came off. Your move JV and TX. Feeling lucky punk?

Uh...... You seriously need your eyes tested.

I'd also add, if you use that search function above, I use my name on more than a few occasions so.... I don't think it's the smartest post you have ever made.

Back to the topic please chaps. You were all doing so well...

This is a summary of how the ASP Prem is funded. These are figures taken from the latest published accounts of each franchise. They are not all from the same year, so they give an approximate picture only, but having looked through all the accounts I can tell you that overall this is pretty accurate. Youngheart Manawatu included for completeness.

Observations:

- The ASB Prem has a total budget of around $3m per annum, which is a tidy sum. In fact, that represents 1/3 of NZF's own budget. Is the competition really that badly funded? Or is the problem how that money is distributed and/or prioritised?

- Nearly 2/3 of the total budget comes from pokie money and a further $0.5m from FIFA prize money. The 8 franchises only generate a total of $0.6m in other revenue themselves (an average of $75k each, with no-one able to generate more than $130k). The competition simply isn't able to sustain itself and the idea that it could ever be semi or fully professional seems ludicrous to me.

- ACFC have nearly twice the budget of any other franchise, and three times the average budget (although this is in a year in which they have CWC winnings). ACFC collect approx $250k more pokie money than the next closest franchise and 2.5 times the average. However, ACFC are only ranked 4th when it comes to revenue generated from sources other than pokies and FIFA.

- Redistributing the pokie funding and the FIFA prize money evenly would make the picture look like this:

There would be a difference of approx. $110k between the best and worst funded franchise compared to around $900k at present. All franchises would be operating within $60k of the average budget.

So my question is basically whether we have got the most efficient and effective funding model for our national league.

Thoughts?

Shit you're good. TermX for Chairman!

Now see the knitters will say 'but 300k in Otago would buy you two teams of players but in Auckland, it buys you two Spaniards, Ivan, a serving wench and a boiled chicken'

To that I say, ditch the imports (limit them) and no players should be 'full time'. The best that want to play, will take what they are offered or watch from the sideline. The difference that Auckland have in funds, pretty much goes into buying their 8 imports (exaggeration for effect) so it's an extremely inefficient use of money.

I believe then, we would actually see a national league whereby those that have tuned out, would at least tune back in because the competition would not be predictable anymore.

I do think though that the team that goes to the CWC should be allowed to keep the lion share of the money to offset the expenses getting there. Otherwise there is no incentive to compete in O League.

Imagine what we could actually do with a league that had that kind of money if no one got paid? We could actually get the game on TV and *gasp* generate exposure.

We could also get games on stadiums with lighting to have Friday night games. When you start getting exposure, you give yourself a chance of getting sponsors so the game starts to fund itself (albeit at a low level)

All it takes is for 2 years, remove the player payments and once the expectations have gone from the old hands and new breed coming through, you then have this pool of cash with which you can do something with the bloody league.

I think that's the biggest thing you have picked up on. It's not poorly funded, it's just the money is used in a terribly inefficient manner.

No-one except kids and social players would want to play in it.

For how long though? Sure you might have a year whereby that may happen but I don't think so.

Outside of the Phoenix, there is probably only a half dozen Kiwi footballers in NZ who deserve to make a living from the game cause they are good enough. The rest are club hacks that clubs feel they need to pay to have in their team. If you stop paying, the players will still play.

Melbourne's VPL is pretty much pro. The NSWPL same. Conference in UK same. They seem to manage OK.

Yes but what standard of footballer do they get and what standard of football do they produce? The NSWSL and VPL are better than ASBP. QSL...faster but not sure if better anymore.

those figures are really alarming

i always felt that good facilities attract the right sort of players, whereas big payments gets the dickheads in

imagine if this money went on facilities and tele, both of these factors would be attractive to any emerging talent that we have. 

anyone who's playing for the money is wasting our time.  if they were any good, they'd be elsewhere and if they are going to be any good they will need the league as much as it needs them.

I agree. The beauty of centralising the pokie money and FIFA money is that you could create as many funds for specific purposes as you want and take them off the top before allocating what's left to franchises. A fund to support a tilt at the O-League would be one, a promotional fund might be another and a TV production fund another.

But what I like most about that second model is that it doesn't equalize funding completely and still gives teams an incentive to generate their own 'real' revenue. A competitive edge is gained because you are actually better at doing something than another franchise, not because of where you happen to be located and how good your relationship with a pokie trust is.

That. Right there. 

Funds could be so much better used than lining the pockets of expats on a summer holiday. 

It's got to be a 'feeder' league not an 'end of the line' league. 

You'd also think that any decent player would want to play at the highest level possible. 

If not, then their attitude is probably not something you'd want anyway. 

Yup and more than a few don't play winter unless they are being trotted out

those figures that terminator posted have really got my shackles up.  the use of funding is all wrong and not sustainable.  that money should be used to build the league.  there are so many problems with the league right now and most of them would be solved if that money was applied to the right areas. 

right now, we could have a fully-funded 10 team league with 3 rounds plus playoffs.  but instead we have a bunch of journeymen lining their pockets.

jeebers

I'm awaiting the outcry from them telling us all how they keep the league alive with the CWC cash and how it's not fair to "punish" them.

And that's what it will remain until kingdom come - a half-arsed shamateur league where the best players can't wait to move, not only to the Phoenix but away from NZ to Green Gully, APIA Leichardt, Sunshine Outofmy Arse, Moreton Bay Figs, whoever, ie.those clubs in Oz which aren't afraid to admit to paying players. NZ National League: feeder league, i.e. not able to get beyond the nursery. 

I doubt it. The Northern & Central Leagues are "stepping stones". Why have another? Why play for nothing in the ASB as yet another stepping stone when you can just cross the Ditch - like Brent Fisher, Jason Hayne, Eager, Fleming, Lucas, Clapham have already done and are still doing - and get paid to play? Guys like Butler, Mulligan, Lovemore, David Browne, Tade, Stu Kelly, etc. etc. not to mention recent arrivals like Irving would just pack bags and wave goodbye.