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Gary Neville and Simulation

81 replies · 15,936 views
almost 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Maybe cos I've played in hack social grades in semi-rural NZ, but I think the other way around to Frankie Mac on the issue of what level you have played... in my experience guys who have played at higher levels are harsher on what they call a foul while guys at lower levels accept a bit more physicality in the game. Maybe that's just the preponderence of one-time rugby players and general alcoholic blue-collar types in Manawatu Division 2 skewing my experience though

People like Coldplay and voted for the Nazis. You can't trust people.

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almost 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Frankie Mac wrote:
That is the strange thing - from that photo El Grap and Stripes see one player "charging" another player, which is something I don't.  I see two people running for the ball, and both jostling to get their bodies in front of the other while chasing a ball, which is something that is part and parcel of the game.
 
I think El Grap and I both said that it could be charging (i.e. a still image does not have enough information to make a call).
 
Another anonymous pundit remarked that:
 
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almost 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
paulm wrote:
Buffon II wrote:
Nice edit there paul.



LOL thought better of it in hindsight, no need for the personal stuff (although the person in question never holds back!)
 
I think most of us here are big enough and ugly enough for some personal stuff - please do not edit on my behalf

All I do is make the stuff I would've liked
Reference things I wanna watch, reference girls I wanna bite
Now I'm firefly like a burning kite
And yousa fake fuck like a fleshlight

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almost 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
It wasn't about you.

f**k you!

Allegedly

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almost 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Frankie Mac wrote:
paulm wrote:
Buffon II wrote:
Nice edit there paul.
LOL thought better of it in hindsight, no need for the personal stuff (although the person in question never holds back!)



�

I think most of us here are big enough and ugly enough for some personal stuff - please do not edit on my behalf




paranoid muchpaulm2012-04-26 07:56:51
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almost 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I still agree with Frankie

Founder

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almost 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
And Frankie still agrees with you.

All I do is make the stuff I would've liked
Reference things I wanna watch, reference girls I wanna bite
Now I'm firefly like a burning kite
And yousa fake fuck like a fleshlight

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almost 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Frankie Mac wrote:
paulm wrote:

and now the rubbish argument about who's played to what level, good grief...
you don't think it is relevant?  Interesting.
 
I think it is - not in a "I played at a higher level than you, so I know more than you", but just in the way that the games are officiated.
 
no one has an opinion on this, aside from "good grief", and someone else who offered some thoughts (who I don't have time to check - sorry).
 
Having played at lower and (comparitively) higher grades, I think in the lower grades there is always talk of how "someone hacked me" or "they just barged me off the ball".  At higher grades, players seem to realise that challenges can be mis-timed and that using your body is part of the game.  These attitudes are then reflected when watching - a lower grade player will say it is a terrible challenge, while a higher grade player will have a better appreciation of what actually happened.
 
Sorry for terrible spelling, etc but I need to shoot to a meeting

All I do is make the stuff I would've liked
Reference things I wanna watch, reference girls I wanna bite
Now I'm firefly like a burning kite
And yousa fake fuck like a fleshlight

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almost 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
It has nothing to do with what level someone's played at, but rather with a lack of understanding of the Laws of the Game and how the games are actually officiated in light of those among both players and managers.

Even at the very highest levels of the game the level of understanding of the Laws of the Game and the way they are supposed to be applied is exceptionally poor among both players and managers.
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almost 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
el grapadura wrote:
It has nothing to do with what level someone's played at, but rather with a lack of understanding of the Laws of the Game and how the games are actually officiated in light of those among both players and managers.

Even at the very highest levels of the game the level of understanding of the Laws of the Game and the way they are supposed to be applied is exceptionally poor among both players and managers.



Yup, the refs are still crap.

If you are old and wise you were probably young and stupid

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almost 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
el grapadura wrote:
It has nothing to do with what level someone's played at, but rather with a lack of understanding of the Laws of the Game and how the games are actually officiated in light of those among both players and managers.

Even at the very highest levels of the game the level of understanding of the Laws of the Game and the way they are supposed to be applied is exceptionally poor among both players and managers.
 
I think that they are generally related.  People who know the intricate details of the rules are generally those who have played at a lower level - those who play at a higher level tend to favour a more common sense approach.

All I do is make the stuff I would've liked
Reference things I wanna watch, reference girls I wanna bite
Now I'm firefly like a burning kite
And yousa fake fuck like a fleshlight

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almost 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Frankie Mac wrote:
People who know the intricate details of the rules are generally those who have played at a lower level


yea ok
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almost 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
El Grap mentioned that at the higher level the knowledge of the laws of the game are pretty bad, and I think that you would struggle to find many players at the top level (even in NZ) who have actually opened the rule book.  Or any book.

All I do is make the stuff I would've liked
Reference things I wanna watch, reference girls I wanna bite
Now I'm firefly like a burning kite
And yousa fake fuck like a fleshlight

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almost 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
guess i know more than you then, since i've played at a lower level

you should listen to me more often, you could learn something
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almost 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
One thign to know the rules, another to know how they are applied

Normo's coming home

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almost 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago


I know people who never played to any decent level but are now very decent referees, explain that muppets
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almost 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
paulm wrote:


I know people who never played to any decent level but are now very decent referees, explain that muppets
 
trained referees get taught the rules??  just a thought

Normo's coming home

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almost 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
paulm wrote:


I know people who never played to any decent level but are now very decent referees, explain that muppets
 
I know people who never played to any decent level but are now very terrible referees, explain that cracker

All I do is make the stuff I would've liked
Reference things I wanna watch, reference girls I wanna bite
Now I'm firefly like a burning kite
And yousa fake fuck like a fleshlight

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almost 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
So you're supporting the fact that the level they played to had nothing to do with it. Go figure.

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almost 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
BarryZuckerkorn wrote:
Maybe cos I've played in hack social grades in semi-rural NZ, but I think the other way around to Frankie Mac on the issue of what level you have played... in my experience guys who have played at higher levels are harsher on what they call a foul while guys at lower levels accept a bit more physicality in the game.



no one has commented on this point from BZ which also seems rather sound. I would tend to agree somewhat - a lot of fouls in the EPL would be laughed at in the lower club grades.
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almost 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
james dean wrote:
One thign to know the rules, another to know how they are applied


Didn't I say that in my post? Knowing the LotG, and understanding how they're applied is just very poorly understood in the football community? Across all levels?

I think that's a pretty fairer assessment than the stuff that Frankie's (very poorly) arguing.
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almost 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Frankie Mac wrote:

I think that they are generally related.� People who know the intricate details of the rules are generally those who have played at a lower level - those who play at a higher level tend to favour a more common sense approach.


Also, can you explain to me how you've reached this conclusion?

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almost 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
el grapadura wrote:
james dean wrote:
One thign to know the rules, another to know how they are applied


Didn't I say that in my post? Knowing the LotG, and understanding how they're applied is just very poorly understood in the football community? Across all levels?

I think that's a pretty fairer assessment than the stuff that Frankie's (very poorly) arguing.
 
I think Frankie is arguing quite well.  He's dragged the discussion away from his indefensible, "embellishment is against the rules/this is a man's game/stop rolling around you little pansy that's not a weight-bearing bone" position into some bizarre contemplation of who really knows the rules.
Stripes2012-04-29 11:58:31
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almost 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I've hide your post stripes because of inappropriate language.
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almost 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
And because you disagree with me, of course!
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almost 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Stripes wrote:
And because you disagree with me, of course!


Think he means 'hidden'

If you are old and wise you were probably young and stupid

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almost 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Probably.  Here's the censored post, with 'pansy' substituted for a slightly stronger term.
 
el grapadura wrote:
james dean wrote:
One thign to know the rules, another to know how they are applied


Didn't I say that in my post? Knowing the LotG, and understanding how they're applied is just very poorly understood in the football community? Across all levels?

I think that's a pretty fairer assessment than the stuff that Frankie's (very poorly) arguing.
 
I think Frankie is arguing quite well.  He's dragged the discussion away from his indefensible, "embellishment is against the rules/this is a man's game/stop rolling around you little pansy that's not a weight-bearing bone" position into some bizarre contemplation of who really knows the rules.
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almost 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I did chuckle at how cleverly that was done.

Allegedly

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almost 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I would hesitate before calling it clever.  Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.
 
Tegal wrote:
But common sense is always applied. Especially in the box, in a way you are arguing against yourself there. You look at any corner or freekick into the box and there are shirts being pulled, and any number of fouls occurring.[/quote]
 
Well, no, that's not common sense.  That's the Laws of the Game on Advantage.  If you read them, instead of simply judging by your prejudices - sorry, "common sense" - you might find the game more satisfying.

Tegal wrote:
Of course common sense has to come into any decision that is made.
 
This is the "common sense" on how decisions are made, I suppose?

[quote=Tegal]On the other hand, you could take the approach that if you blew a foul or penalty everytime an offence occurs, then eventually players will stop doing it. Is that the approach you are suggesting?
 
So, once more, I'm suggesting using the Laws of the Game, including the rules on Advantage.
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almost 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
el grapadura wrote:
Frankie Mac wrote:

I think that they are generally related.  People who know the intricate details of the rules are generally those who have played at a lower level - those who play at a higher level tend to favour a more common sense approach.


Also, can you explain to me how you've reached this conclusion?

 
from experience.  All the people I have known who have quoted things from the rulebooks have tended to be people who have not played at a very high level.  At any of the clubs I was at when I played seriously, we very rarely had any kind of discussion about the rules and their application - Wharfies had Tasker come and speak to us about application of the rules in about 2007 and that was it.  This meant that if anyone wanted to know the actual laws of the game, they had to take the time to read it themselves, and most people who are good at something like football tend to think that they know it all already and do not think that they need to bother.

All I do is make the stuff I would've liked
Reference things I wanna watch, reference girls I wanna bite
Now I'm firefly like a burning kite
And yousa fake fuck like a fleshlight

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almost 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Don't be so ability-ist
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almost 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
2nd Best - you would be one of the few people I know who have played at a high level, and actually read the rulebook, but I blame that on the people you hang around with.

All I do is make the stuff I would've liked
Reference things I wanna watch, reference girls I wanna bite
Now I'm firefly like a burning kite
And yousa fake fuck like a fleshlight

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almost 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Define high level.

Three for me, and two for them.

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almost 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Frankie Mac wrote:
2nd Best - you would be one of the few people I know who have played at a high level, and actually read the rulebook, but I blame that on the people you hang around with.


You are kidding of course.

If you are old and wise you were probably young and stupid

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almost 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Regardless of whether it is in the almighty rulebook - players getting a  penalty just because someone touched them in the penalty box [sounds dodgy] is lame and makes me embarrassed to be a football fan. As does diving.

Although I HATE shirt-pulling. Players who pull shirts should have their hands cut off, like Middle Easterners do for having masties.
I like tautologies because I like them.
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almost 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Cosimo wrote:
Regardless of whether it is in the almighty rulebook - players getting a� penalty just because someone touched them in the penalty box [sounds dodgy] is lame and makes me embarrassed to be a football fan. As does diving. Although I HATE shirt-pulling. Players who pull shirts should have their hands cut off, like Middle Easterners do for having masties.


If you are old and wise you were probably young and stupid

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almost 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Frankie Mac wrote:
el grapadura wrote:
Frankie Mac wrote:

I think that they are generally related.� People who know the intricate details of the rules are generally those who have played at a lower level - those who play at a higher level tend to favour a more common sense approach.
Also, can you explain to me how you've reached this conclusion?


�

from experience.� All the people I have known who have quoted things from the rulebooks have tended to be people who have not played at a very high level.� At any of the clubs I was at when I played seriously, we very rarely had any kind of discussion about the rules and their application - Wharfies had Tasker come and speak to us about application of the rules in about 2007 and that was it.� This meant that if anyone wanted to know the actual laws of the game, they had to take the time to read it themselves, and most people who are good at something like football tend to think that they know it all already and do not think that they need to bother.


Wow, you're counting Capital Premier as a serious level of football?

Well, in real life the gap between Capital Premier and Capital 18 is much smaller than a gap between Capital Premier, and let's say, League 2. So according to you, you should know the rules and their application better than, let's say, Gary Neville. Yet you don't. Maybe I should post this in the 'Things that make you go hmmmm' thread.
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almost 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
incorrect - a Cap Prem team would beat a Cap 18 team by more than they would get beaten by League 2

Founder

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almost 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Depends on the side. Some of the sides that start down there can be pretty good. Now, Cap 14,,,

How's my driving? - Whine here

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almost 14 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I was thinking more about Central League than Premier Division, but in theory the Premier Division should be about the 5th or 6th best league in the country.  It is not my fault that the football in the country is so sh*t.

All I do is make the stuff I would've liked
Reference things I wanna watch, reference girls I wanna bite
Now I'm firefly like a burning kite
And yousa fake fuck like a fleshlight

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