Manchester United

Yes of course it my opinion. You are certainly entitled to yours, but the difference is I watch ALL the Utd games so have a better understanding of what the players can and cannot do. I don't watch all the Arsenal games so really can't comment on weather you are good enough to win the league. City should win because they have the best players.

That's the thing though Leggy, I am claiming that these players should be better than what you are watching. 

I see a Pogba that is worse than when he was at Juventus. 

I see a Lukaku who matches the Everton Lukaku in patches only.

I see a Sanchez who may as well be a reptilian impostor compared to the Arsenal Sanchez.

I see a Martial and a Rashford that were better under van Gaal.

I see a Smalling and a Jones that were better under Fergie. 

I see a Matic who is a shadow of his former self. 

I see a Fellaini, Young and Valencia that are doing as expected - decent, but not better than under previous Managers. 

I see a de Gea that is world class under Mourinho, but was also world class under his previous Managers. 

I see big CB purchases in Bailly and Lindelof failing badly under Mourinho. 

The only players I can think of that Mourinho has actually improved are Jesse Lingard, who is now seemingly on the outer, and Luke Shaw, for whom the jury is still out. 

Pogba is getting better and better and is much more harshly judged in England than he was at Juve. Is he playing worse? I don't think so - he's just held to a higher standard because the English press goes out their way to shark on him. 

Lukaku is out of form, yes, but last season he was better than he ever was at Everton. Every player goes through rough patches. 

Sanchez has disappointed, I agree, but I was also against signing him at all given we didn't need a LW. 

Martial is playing the best he's played for United this season. 

Rashford is in a similar boat to Lukaku but certainly wasn't a ton better under LvG, that's very revisionist, espeially since he only had effectively half a season under him.

Smalling and Jones were never top quality under Fergie and they still aren't. 

Matic is older and had a resurgence last season after a poor season at Chelsea. Might be done now I think. 

Lindelof has been good recently and I wouldn't say Bailly is "failing horribly". 

Your Lingard comment shows how little you know what you're talking about as he's just returned from injury for a couple of months.

Luke Shaw has had the best season of his career as well, not sure how the jury can still be out on him if its apparently returned negatively on every other Utd player. Give him the credit he deserves.

Essentially, you just proved you have no idea what you're talking about.

I don't understand how somebody says that we have a good enough team to win the league than goes on to point out what is wrong with each player.

For the most part I agree with Leggy and Nelfoos. We are a long way from having the squad capable of challenging for honours. 

We've never had the best team in the league during those 14 years, so we cannot be expected to compete for the title.

I'm saying the faults with the players right now are because of Mourinho, not in spite of him. They should be better, and most of them have been better under other Managers or at different clubs. I understand if you disagree but you should be able to understand my point at the very least. 

Fair points on Shaw and Lingard, but I disagree with your other player assessments. Yes I do not watch ManU as much as your typical ManU fan, to be fair they're just not enjoyable to watch for the neutral, but those are the things that I see when I do watch them. 

I'm also shocked at how so many of you have got the blinkers on when it comes to Mourinho's history. Going beyond 2 seasons with him is just not the territory you want to be in. 

I can't speak for other Utd fans but I for one have not got blinkers on regarding JM. I have a friend of mine who is a big Chelsea fan and he asked me in 2004 if I hated JM. I replied that I did not and believed that what you saw was not the actual bloke. I still think that. I guess because he had been successful at Porto the British Press tried to give him heaps and he just got sick of the baiting and became a bit of an odd ball. They still treat him like crap, ask the most stupid questions and expect him to be Mr. nice guy.

I could ask you if you had your blinkers on in the last 10 years re AW, because the only difference between him and JM is the fact that JM achieved. They both made so many excuses  ( particularly AW, it was embarrassing) 

I must've missed when Arsene Wenger gauged a coaches eye out and called a team doctor a 'son of a bitch' for trying to do her job.

Jose has 0 class, and that's all he'll be remembered for. Fits the current incarnation of Man Utd quite well.

You are pretty naive if you really believe that is all he will be remembered for. 

I will remember AW for failing to shake hands with the opposition manager on many occasions when he lost. 

I'm going to chime in here and completely agree with paulm.

Some specific notes:

Pogba is a good player and he's extremely important to Manchester United. But he's on another level for France, which backs up with Paul is saying.

Rashford was tonnes better under LVG, and actually got to play in a way that suits him. And again, Rashford is a much better player for England.

Matic is old and he is finished. Yet he has started almost every game.

Shaw is doing great. But Shaw playing under Pep where he can would likely be world class.

No one is arguing than United players are any good. But Mourinho is sinking this club like he has multiple times before, he's struggling against sides who'd kill to trade for anyone of United's starting 11, and here you lot are defending him.

Re Pobga. For France he has quality players around him.

Rashford. Has a lot of talent but  not a lot of football nous. He is still young

Matic. Old and finished. He is 30 and has more talent than most.

Shaw. Could be good but cost us two goals in the last two games.A ball watcher. World class, I don't think so.

IYou are just anti JM and quite frankly know sweet FA about football. 

Ah yes, not shaking hands a few times in a couple of decades is definitely equivalent to Mourinho's consistent and insulting buffoonery. 

Mourinho's antics have outweigh his achievements. I think that's pretty hard to argue against now.

Leggy, no one is disagreeing with the general premise of what you're saying. Manchester United need a bunch more players to beat Manchester City in the league. You've said this for some time and no one disagrees with you.

But we're not talking about beating City in the league. We're talking about getting outplayed by cannon fodder. Mourinho's side is woefully underperforming, and he is first and foremost responsible.

Rather have  successful buffoonery than a specialist in failure. 

You've got both right now.

Soooo how are we going to go against Palace on Sunday? No such thing as an easy game for United these days and this is exactly the sort of fixture that we've buggered up in the last couple of seasons. We've got Young Boys at home on Wednesday but not sure he is going to rest too many on the weekend.

Guess a couple of Champions League titles is pretty poor.

Leggy windmilling all over the show here. Sad to see.

Well this was an entertaining little read

What we need to do is spend another 500m pounds to ensure Mourinho can score a goal at home against Palace!

You are just anti JM and quite frankly know sweet FA about football.

We should spend more than that. Plus another 500m. :)

Not sure it'd make a difference. Jose will score 1 and park the bus.

Well he calls himself "Special One" for a reason.

Didn't even know the game was on this morning, sounds like it was the same old rubbish though.

The transfermarkt website puts United's squad value at £750m, and Young Boy's around £60m.**

Tell me more about how we haven't spent enough.

**Arguable numbers, but orders of magnitude different, you get the point.

How is that comparing apples with oranges?

The Mourinho excuses are becoming ridiculous.

You might have a point if you were comparing our spend to our competitors who operate in the same environment but your point is irrelevant so far.

I'm not even a big Mourinho fan, I just don't think he's the one who is completely to blame for our poor performance.

How do they operate in a different environment? Two football teams played each other in the same competition. One with grossly more financial means, a far better squad, and where the entire planet could name the club. This club was made to look terrible by the one who I'm not even sure which country they play in.

What context? It is the same thing every week.

If this context is silly then simply look to the last game United played. And the game before that. And before that. And before that.

United is currently a joke run by a manager who still relies on a footballer (because he has no other ideas) who takes 4 touches to turn 180 degrees.

I'd say being blind to context would be absolving your Manager of all blame for consistently dire performances. 

I don't think anyone is absolving him of all blame. But to attribute all of the blame to him and to think that everything would be better by bringing someone else in is also being blind to context. 

Perpetuating black and white opinions does not make for good debate or resolution.

I agree re: black/white arguments, a great point there Tekkers. However, if you go back and read the posts, you might want to re-word your opening line, because you aren't speaking for others, only for yourself. Your fellow fans aside from 20 legend are indeed attributing all blame to woodward and/or the players, and none to Mourinho. 

They are saying that all you need is more investment, because the players aren't good enough.

The argument has evolved, but the only point I've been trying to make all along is that I think your squad IS good enough, and that Mourinho is just not getting enough out of them. We have seen these same players perform to much higher levels for other Managers, so to me, it actually is quite black and white: Mourinho is the worst performing individual in your system right now. 

I have never said that I only blame Woodward and the players. Of course  JM has to take some blame, but the reality is that a large % of the players are not good enough.Pretty simple really. 

That group of players can win the league, but not with Mourinho at the helm, and especially not after his first 2 seasons at the helm have passed. That's the reality in my opinion. 

Pretty simple really. 

Tekkers at the beginning of 2017/18.

What's changed? 

Nelfoos at the beginning of 2017/18 season.

What's changed?

Chopper at the beginning of 2017/18. 

What's changed?