The English Premiership is a Cr*p Competi

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
The English Premiership is a Cr*p Competi
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Am I the one out there in �football-fan-land� who can see The English Premiership for the sham it is?

 

A foregone conclusion, before a ball is even kicked.

 

Self perpetuating bore.  

 

Scottish Football x 2.

 

Face it - The Premiership is a crap competition, with limited coverage on Sky for supporters of clubs outside the �Big Four�.

 

In case you haven�t noticed, here�s how biased Television coverage is.

 

For the first few weeks of the season, in August: Man U, Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal get 4 games each and the 5th best performing club from last season, Everton, gets 1!

 

And Everton fans only get that game courtesy of the fact they are playing Arsenal.    

 

In-fact what makes the A-League worth watching is the even nature of the teams & even media coverage.     

 

Sure the standard is high in The Premiership � but who cares when the same-old clubs perennially pick-up the silverware?   

 

The emperor has no clothes, guys.   

 

This lack of competition means I�m tuning into The Bundesliga for my European football entertainment and  enjoying The A-League.   

 

Love to get some feedback from �the great unwashed� on this.

 

That�s to say the minority of local fans who don�t support a Top Four team (that�s all 10 of you) and those of you who are Kiwi-born followers of the English game.  

 

Cheers.

 

Paul.

 

    

Underwatergoat2009-08-10 15:10:18
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Always thought it mildly amusing that people took the piss and rattled on about the SFL being sh*t and that only two teams had any chance of winning it (which I agree with, btw) but it's nice to hear someone finally admitting that the EPL is basically the same. Different season, same few teams with any show of winning it.

Jag2009-08-10 15:06:20

Apparently I'm apathetic, but I couldn't care less.

"Being a Partick Thistle fan sets you apart. It means youre a free thinker. It also means your team has no money." Tim Luckhurst, The Independent, 4th December 2003

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Jag wrote:
Always thought it mildly amusing that people took the piss and rattled on about the SFL being sh*t
 
That's because Scottish football is sh*t.

Three for me, and two for them.

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Buffon II wrote:
Jag wrote:
Always thought it mildly amusing that people took the piss and rattled on about the SFL being sh*t
 
That's because Scottish football is sh*t.
 
What part of the "(which I agree with, BTW)" didn't you get then?
 
Also find it VERY amusing how Kiwis feel that they are in any position to pontificate about how sh*t SCOTTISH football is!  
 
My post wasn't agreeing that the EPL is sh*t, because I don't think it is, merely that at the business end it's about as predictable as the SPL is.
 
 
 
 
Jag2009-08-10 15:27:34

Apparently I'm apathetic, but I couldn't care less.

"Being a Partick Thistle fan sets you apart. It means youre a free thinker. It also means your team has no money." Tim Luckhurst, The Independent, 4th December 2003

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Have to agree with parts of what you've said.
 
While I find the football entertaining, I couldn't really give a toss as too who is leading because its so damn predictible.
 
Lets be honest this is a league where 3 teams dominate (Liverpool are competitve yes but they haven't won in 20 years.....).
 
The only leagues that I know of that are more uncompetitive are Scotland and France.
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Gangsta! wrote:
Have to agree with parts of what you've said.
 
While I find the football entertaining, I couldn't really give a toss as too who is leading because its so damn predictible.
 
Lets be honest this is a league where 3 teams dominate (Liverpool are competitve yes but they haven't won in 20 years.....).
 
The only leagues that I know of that are more uncompetitive are Scotland and France.

Well before Lyon won 7 on the trot there were 7 different winners in 7 seasons, seems that Lyons strangle hold is weakening with Bordeaux winning last season. I would possibly put Spain in there too. In the last 25 years only 3 other teams and 4 seasons haven't seen either Barcelona or Real Madrid win the league. Also in that period Real won 5 on the trot and Barcelona 4.

The league to watch for entertainment is the Bundesliga (also has one of the best journos/columnists covering football):
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/columns/story?id=652366&sec=europe&root=europe&cc=3436


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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I understand some of what you are saying BUT...
 
The level of skill and entertainment far outweighs anything we ever see in the A-League. 
 
You are mixing Sky NZ's coverage with the quality of the competition.  In the UK, the coverage is much more even handed.  Sky NZ choose what to show.  They are nothing to do with Sky UK so are not replicating their coverage. 
 
Even media coverage in the A-League? Don't make me laugh.  Andy Harper HATES Wellington being in the league and everything about us.  Look at the way we've been written off over there this season. 
 
These things go in cycles.  There was a time when the German league was absolutely dominated by Bayen year after year but one of the achknowledged reasons why it is now entertaining is because the quality is low. 
 
Give me a good EPL game anyday.  Sure it's a three horse race for now, but all of those teams get regularly beaten and others are coming through.  Love the action, it's the players I can't stand.  But that's a whole other issue. 
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I've always been frustrated by the biased amount of coverage that English Football gets in New Zealand.
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Why does NZ love England? When england do well/bad in a world cup then its 2nd or 3rd in sports bullets.

ive got a song that wont take long, Adelaide are rubbish.. the second verse is same as the first.. ADELAIDE ARE RUBBISH

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Being part of the Commonwealth would probably have something to do with it ,The Queen and all that.
giddyup2009-08-10 18:19:52
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
The who?
If you are watching games and ignoring the table the EPL is fantastic (providing you have decent bandwidth). All through Europe there are leagues dominated by 1 to 4 clubs, I think what the Bundesliga has at the moment is fantastic but septical that it will last.
You know we belong together...

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Oska wrote:
The who?



Three for me, and two for them.

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Ahhhh, nice to put a face to that name.
You know we belong together...

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Sky NZ have no say in what games they show. they broadcast the package sent to them by the premier league. The only rules about what gets shown is every team gets aired a live game a certain amount of times per season. the EPL usually chooses to show the games against the big four as the lesser teams live games, that is why you wont see to many stoke vs Wolves games or the like live.
Make sure you actually know what you are criticizing and why things are the way they are.
 
BTW- from wiki
 
"The Premier League sells its television rights on a collective basis. This is in contrast to some European Leagues, including Serie A and La Liga, in which each club sells its rights individually, leading to a much higher share of the total income going to the top few clubs. The money is divided into three parts:[31] half is divided equally between the clubs; one quarter is awarded on a merit basis based on final league position, the top club getting twenty times as much as the bottom club, and equal steps all the way down the table; the final quarter is paid out as facilities fees for games that are shown on television, with the top clubs generally receiving the largest shares of this. The income from overseas rights is divided equally between the twenty clubs."
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Gangsta! wrote:
The only leagues that I know of that are more uncompetitive are Scotland and France.


Obviously never seen 1. HNL then...
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Celtic and Rangers should join the Premier League and see if they can avoid relegation. 
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
el grapadura wrote:
Gangsta! wrote:
The only leagues that I know of that are more uncompetitive are Scotland and France.


Obviously never seen 1. HNL then...


Moldovan National Division

One winner this decade.

Three for me, and two for them.

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Hah, they're owned by a rich Russian dude and apparently have some of the best footballing facilities in Europe. They're also in the last qualifying round for Champions League, but will probably get knocked out by Olympiakos.
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Hey, whether the Sky coverage comes from N.Z or overseas dictate, from my perspective - who cares? Either way there is a clear bias. I pay my subscription and get to see my team play once.

Everton finished 5th and get one solitary game in August? The 4th club gets four? I can supply further examples if you want them.

Fox Television in Australia covers all A-League games live. Painting The Phoenix as some-how hard-done-by by Aussie TV is a load of cobblers.  

But that�s what makes The A-League a great competition to watch � you can actually get to watch your team play, every minute of every game.  

The German Bundesliga is a much more open competition. Since the English Premiership stated in 1992 just four clubs have taken the title compared to six German clubs over the same period � so to argue Bayern dominate, is simply not true (Dortmond have won three times for example)     

German Football allows only German ownership, so they don�t get the distortions overseas money now brings to The English game.

Yes, they do have the larger clubs, but their top-league is much more of a competition (keep thinking that foreign word �competition� )  

That�s why you can a club like Wolfsburg has a chance of winning, not just a solitary game against the so-called big boys � but the title itself last season.

What chance does a compatible sized club in the Premiership, like say Bolton, stand of winning the so-called Premiership? Nil, nothing, zip, nought.    

Imagine watching a horse-race where only four horses from a field of 20 could win, race-in-race-out?

How could you say that was exciting?  Exciting for who? The punters who have tickets on the �Top Four� and no one else, that�s who!  

The only people who defend the imbalance and lack of competition in The Premiership, just happen to be the supporters of The Big Four (probably about 80% of all football followers in N.Z from my experience)  

The Bundesliga is currently superior competition, whether you want to accept it or not.

Come to 'The Dark Side'. 
 
Paul.
 
PS: I have rung Sky TV twice on this imbalance issue � never heard back on either occasion or got an explanation as to whether it�s N.Z or overseas dictate.           

 

 

 

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
<P style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" ="Msonormal"><FONT face="Courier New, Courier, mono" color=#000000 size=1>Am I the one out there in �football-fan-land� who can see The English Premiership for the sham it is?
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<P style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" ="Msonormal"><FONT face="Courier New, Courier, mono" color=#000000 size=1>A foregone conclusion, before a ball is even kicked.
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<P style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" ="Msonormal">Self perpetuating bore. <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">�</SPAN>
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<P style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" ="Msonormal"><FONT face="Courier New, Courier, mono" color=#000000 size=1>Scottish Football x 2.
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<P style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" ="Msonormal"><FONT face="Courier New, Courier, mono" color=#000000 size=1>Face it - The Premiership is a crap competition, with limited coverage on Sky for supporters of clubs outside the �Big Four�.
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<P style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" ="Msonormal"><FONT face="Courier New, Courier, mono" color=#000000 size=1>In case you haven�t noticed, here�s how biased Television coverage is.
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<P style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" ="Msonormal"><FONT face="Courier New, Courier, mono" color=#000000 size=1>For the first few weeks of the season, in August: Man U, Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal get 4 games each and the 5th best performing club from last season, Everton, gets 1!
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<P style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" ="Msonormal">And Everton fans only get that game courtesy of the fact they are playing Arsenal. <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">�</SPAN><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">�</SPAN><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">�</SPAN>
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<P style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" ="Msonormal">In-fact what makes the A-League worth watching is the even nature of the teams & even media coverage. <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">�</SPAN><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">�</SPAN><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">�</SPAN><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">�</SPAN>
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<P style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" ="Msonormal">Sure the standard is high in The Premiership � but who cares when the same-old clubs perennially pick-up the silverware? <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">�</SPAN><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">�</SPAN>
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<P style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" ="Msonormal">The emperor has no clothes, guys. <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">�</SPAN><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">�</SPAN>
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<P style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" ="Msonormal">This lack of competition means I�m tuning into The Bundesliga for my European football entertainment and� enjoying The A-League. <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">�</SPAN><SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">�</SPAN>
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<P style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" ="Msonormal"><FONT face="Courier New, Courier, mono" color=#000000 size=1>Love to get some feedback from �the great unwashed� on this.
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<P style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" ="Msonormal">That�s to say the minority of local fans who don�t support a Top Four team (that�s all 10 of you) and those of you who are Kiwi-born followers of the English game. <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">�</SPAN>
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<P style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" ="Msonormal"><FONT face="Courier New, Courier, mono" color=#000000 size=1>Cheers.
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<P style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" ="Msonormal"><FONT face="Courier New, Courier, mono" color=#000000 size=1>Paul.
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I think you will find it is Sky NZ that decide which games they show. In Oz Fox sports show all EPL games live.
All you do is push the red button and have your choice. You can keep changing to keep up with the other games.
The EPL is in my view, the best.

If you are old and wise you were probably young and stupid

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
giddyup wrote:
Being part of the Commonwealth would probably have something to do with it ,The Queen and all that.
 
It's more than that though, they always go on about England way more than the other British nations. Even back when they were of similar strength (or even when the English were worse).
 
And regarding another comment - it's rediculous to say that Rangers and Celtic would get relegated in the English League.
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Leggy wrote:

I think you will find it is Sky NZ that decide which games they show. In Oz Fox sports show all EPL games live.
All you do is push the red button and have your choice. You can keep changing to keep up with the other games.
The EPL is in my view, the best.
In Oz Fox buys the rights to every game, and have their own pre game/half time shows etc.
In NZ we buy a package, which includes a highlights show and premier league world plus several live games per week.
Some weekends we get the full package where  game runs into the next with comments, highlights etc, but they still run the games we are given off the satellite and these are beamed into millions of homes around the world in country's that don't run their own shows.
Sky can pay for extra games if they want and they have done in the past when games like the north London derby weren't televised at all on their given schedule.
This also reflects the quality of the product. I'm sure the big German teams dominate the televised coverage just as the top teams in any league would.
People need to understand the system rather than go off half cocked and think they are being short changed, when really we get a pretty sweet deal for a country so small.
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I pay my Sky fees and dont get to see my team at all, but I can handle watching other games.
Proud to have attended the first 175 Consecutive "Home" Wellington Phoenix "A League" Games !!

The Ruf, The Ruf, The Ruf is on Fire!!

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Am I the one out there in �football-fan-land� who can see The English Premiership for the sham it is? A foregone conclusion, before a ball is even kicked.  Self perpetuating bore.  

    

I wonder though, out of Spain, Italy, Germany, Holland and how ever many other leagues, IS there really a top flight league without a small list of regular winners?
 
Since 1983:
England Top flight winners: = 7
Holland = 4
Ialty = 8
Spain = 6
germany = 6
 
If you take only the past 10 years, the numbers drop accross ALL leagues by about the same proprtions. So based on winners alone, there's NO real difference. Proive that it's NORMAL for major leagues to have many different winners, and then I'll buy into your somewhat spurious argument
 
 
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Gentlemen, you seem to be getting side-tracked on TV Coverage.

The fact still remains The Premiership, which I need to remind some of you, began in high-hopes in 1992(not 1983) � but is now no better than Scottish Football for its predictability.

It has no depth, uneven and is not a great competition (again I need to mention that word �competition�)     

Clubs like Stoke and Burnley versus Chelsea and Manchester United is like watching Auckland Reactor race a plough-horse.

If you think The EPL is the �best�, as two of you have stated, at least tell me reasons why you think it is better competition than say The German  Bundesliga?  

Again, the only ones who seem to think the EPL is the best � just happen to be the supporters of The Big Four � with a vested interest for this insurmountable overseas money-driven imbalance to continue.

It�s mostly only the zombie-like hordes of ManU, Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool Fans who think the EPL is a �great� competition -or- those with English 'blood'.  

Your response is as predictable as the competition itself.

Getting back to my first post - what do other �neutral� fans think?

That�s the adopted Kiwi Wolves and Fulham supporters etc � not the ones who came to N.Z having been born into the game in England.

I would like to hear what these �neutral� Kiwi fans from �the great unwashed clubs� what they think about The EPL?

Do you also feel disenfranchised like me?   

Cheers. 

Paul.     

 

Underwatergoat2009-08-11 06:51:49
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Ive supported Arsenal since before there were a big four. The EPL isn't to blame for the financial imbalance, its UEFA. is it any coincidence that the number of CL spots available match's the number of "BIG' clubs.
 
From the amount of supporters of non big four teams on these boards i have gathered that playing in the EPL is something special, and testing yourselves against the best in the world is exciting for them.
Ask any Hull fan what the highlight of last season was and they would probably say beating Arsenal at the Emirates. Ask a Burnley fan and they would say beating Fulham, Chelsea and Arsenal in their Carling cup run or earning promotion to the EPL.
The socialist ideal of a completely even league with no financial advantage to finishing first or last doesn't work. It may sound elitist but without the big four, what would lesser clubs aspire to? There has to be more to lower league football than merely survival, and to become a top club should take more than pouring 100's of millions of pounds into a club.
The system isn't perfect but the Billions of people who watch the EPL every weekend must have a good reason for doing so surely?
 
(my boss is a Norwich fan {7-1 vs colchester lol} and he still talks about beating Man U at old trafford 3-0 the year they were in the league)
 
Every good story needs Heroes and Villains and for a lot of supporters the Big four are the "Evil Empire". any victory against them are usually savoured by all, but its all about individual perceptions.
 
I noted that you stated that you were feeling disenfranchised with the EPL. Maybe you need to look at what you want from watching international football competitions. By you argument why bother having a world cup every four years when we all know that only a handful of teams are ever likely to win.?
If you want a competition where the worst team in the league is just as likely to win as the best team then good luck, but you will struggle to find anything that fits that description on this planet.
UberGunner2009-08-11 08:28:09
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

If you think The EPL is the �best�, as two of you have stated, at least tell me reasons why you think it is better competition than say The German  Bundesliga?[/QUOTE]

The quality and skill level for a start is far greater. People wank over the Bundesliga like it's the best thing since sliced bread but tbh the level whilst of a decent level is hardly spectacular. The defending is average at best and the mid table/bottom teams there are f**king horrid at the best of times. Watch as last years winners Wolfsburg get slaughtered in this years Champions League and note the difference in quality.

Again, the only ones who seem to think the EPL is the best � just happen to be the supporters of The Big Four � with a vested interest for this insurmountable overseas money-driven imbalance to continue.[/QUOTE]

Myth. Large Myth propelled by the old 'oooh look at me i support Doncaster Rovers what a brilliant supporter i am' types who spout rubbish about the odd 0-0 draw between Bolton and Blackburn whilst failing to mention the insurmountable number of turgid matches within their own tinpot league.

[QUOTE=Underwatergoat] Getting back to my first post - what do other �neutral� fans think?

I think you've mostly talked utter nonsense.

[QUOTE=Underwatergoat]Do you also feel disenfranchised like me?

No.

   

 


Three for me, and two for them.

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Gentlemen, you seem to be getting side-tracked on TV Coverage. [/QUOTE]

appearances can be deceptive

The fact still remains The Premiership, which I need to remind some of you, began in high-hopes in 1992(not 1983) � but is now no better than Scottish Football for its predictability. [/QUOTE]
Well that makes my job easier - less years os stats to collect. I know when the EPL started. I just picked 1983 at random (it was at the bottom of the first column in the stats page I was using). If we go with 1992, then FOR ALL the other major european leagues the trend of few teams winning stands.
 

It has no depth, uneven and is not a great competition (again I need to mention that word �competition�) Clubs like Stoke and Burnley versus Chelsea and Manchester United is like watching Auckland Reactor race a plough-horse. [/QUOTE]
No depth? None? What of Man City, Blackburn, Spurs, Villa, Everton . .  all clubs that would survive and proably do OK in most other, if not ALL other leagues. THIS is depth. Pointing out the one or two lucky ones who are weak due to recent promotion is anecdotal at best, spurious at worst. This says more about the quality of the Championship, not the EPL - that's where these teams you mention came from.

If you think The EPL is the �best�[/QUOTE] Which I dont ,
as two of you have stated, at least tell me reasons why you think it is better competition than say The German  Bundesliga?[/QUOTE]  
You started this, you tell us HOW, WHY the Bundesliga is "better".. whatever that means.
 

[QUOTE=Underwatergoat]It�s mostly only the zombie-like hordes of ManU, Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool Fans who think the EPL is a �great� competition -or- those with English 'blood'.

 
Prove it. What was the size of your survey?
 
I'm a Spurs fan. We haven't won the EPL, ever. Haven't won much since I was born, actually. BUT I love the competition. You might also find that many EPL fans also love other leagues. It's not a zero-sum game, buddy.

[QUOTE=Underwatergoat]Your response is as predictable as the competition itself.

 

Your argument is as weak as it was when this thread was started.

[QUOTE=Underwatergoat]Getting back to my first post - what do other �neutral� fans think? That�s the adopted Kiwi Wolves and Fulham supporters etc � not the ones who came to N.Z having been born into the game in England. I would like to hear what these �neutral� Kiwi fans from �the great unwashed clubs� what they think about The EPL?

See my comments about Spurs, above.

[QUOTE=Underwatergoat]Do you also feel disenfranchised like me?  

No.
 

[QUOTE=Underwatergoat]Cheers. Paul.   

No worries. Phil
phil_style2009-08-11 09:20:37
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Thanks for pointing-out something I missed. That�s to say the reason why most so-called fans in this country follow the so-called Premiership is (a.) The team they �support� has a fair-shot at winning a trophy or at the very least 75% of all games (b.) They are from England or have family ties to a club.

 

You would have thought some local youngsters would have adopted Blackburn with its Kiwi ties � but even kids know damn-well Blackburn (minus its whiskey billionaire)  stands no-chance of being more than mere make-pieces. So that's why my local sport-shop only sells four premiership strips.   

 

For about one-third of clubs, the season involves around avoiding relegation.   

 

To indicate a highlight of the season for a fan of say Stoke, Wolves is to win a game against one of the big clubs, is a grand indictment as to what a crap �competition� the EPL is.

 

Same with those that reminisce about them/dad being at a game where [insert highlight dating back at least a decade or more]     

 

Who wants to watch game after game of miss-matches, hoping for the occasional fluke-win?  

 

Wop-de-f@#k!

 

Sadly, there will be English fans who will never see their clubs win a single major trophy in their entire lives � but this situation suits the Top Four supporters.      

 

As we saw with Wolfsburg last season, The German league is much more even and less dominated by the almighty euro. It is possible for the less resourced �poorer� clubs to win the league title, unlike the EPL.

 

Let me prove my point minus as much subjective angles as possible, in a forum of this kind. .  

 

Odds at bookies to win this seasons Bundesliga show eight clubs (Bayern, Shalke, Wolfsburg, W.Bremen, Stuggart, Dortmund, Hamburg, Hoffenheim) are all paying less than 20 to 1 to win. Only five EPL clubs (Man City now in the picture) are paying less than $20 � and 10 of the 20 are at 1000 to 1 or more. Only four clubs in the Bundesliga are at odds over 500 to 1 and only 1 is at 1,000 to 1. Spurs (rated 6th best chance) are at 150 to 1.

 

At bet365 Hull, Birmingham and Burnley are at 10,000 to 1. Ten friggin� thousand to one! Put ya house on it!

 

The bookies clearly think the Premiership is a great competition and has plenty of depth � not!  

 

Clearly those that run betting agencies need to operate objectively without any bias, they have their livelihoods on the line and don�t survive on glamour, history and pontifications.

 
Spuriousness is not in bookies modus - they too see it for what it is - crap competition.   
   

Nice chatting.

 

Paul.       

 

 

 

    

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
yes competition is lots of teams having a shot a winning the title
in England, realistically for last season and this there is only 3 sides
from 98-2002 there was only the Arse and MUFC

so agreed this is no good.

what comps have maximized there "many runners" idea?
The Afl, The NRL, the NBA and the NFL

what do these 4 comps have in common?

the answer stares us in the face but due to what can only be described as the corruption of law makers $ wins over common sense and common ownership of Football Clubs.
Big business has ruined football and it will take a not only a change in legislation but a change in the way we do business to fix this.

moan, grumble

and Uber the concept of Football is inherently Socialist, that's why its so popular worldwide.
leveled squad depths, enforced salary caps, restriction on foreign imports and player draft can and would seriously limit teams like Real Mad, MUFC, Chelsea, Bayern, AC Milan simply buying titles and then claiming "youth academy" or some such sh*t.

I'll roll up me red flag now and gewt to work

E's Flat Ah's Flat Too

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Fab-point about the lack of investment by the foreign-owned Big Four in home-grown English youth/player development. It�s not a priority to them and their overseas masters when they know they can simply �pick-off� talent from other clubs, top-up the overdraft.      

 

In this years Champions League, between Arsenal, Man.U and Chelsea, there were just seven English players took the field in the quarter-finals.

 

FC Schalke, who went out in the round before from memory, fielded seven German players from the one squad.

 

Bayern (2nd last season) is a big-club in any-ones books, can boast Lahm, Ottl, Rensing and Schweinsteiger as products from their youth system.

 

What examples can you give from Chelsea?  

 

The structure of the Bundesliga supports the German national team aspirations � for the betterment of the local game as a whole. One of them is no individual entity can own more than 49% of a club. Rules also keep player costs at no more than 45% of a clubs turnover (compared to 66% in England) This means less player-power.  

 

The fans also get a say in how the sport is run in Germany e.g. fighting to retain embankments and traditions that have long since disappeared in England.

 

Whilst the UK revenue overall was twice that in Germany the Bundesliga produced a profit 150 million Euro more last season.  

 

On average it�s half the price to see a Bundesliga game than an EPL and the crowds are similar in size.

 

Despite what you read The Bundesliga also can offer fans more goals per game than any other major European League = more attacking football.       

 

The whizz-bang �great� competition called The Premiership does no favours to the English national team, who failed to qualify for Euro 2008 and are regular under-achievers, despite supposedly operating �the best league in the world�.

 

Unfortunately for The English game, the clubs supported predominately by Englishmen , owned by Englishmen, developing English players are all �bottom feeders� & operate well below the four (soon to be five) foreign owned, foreign supported glam clubs who lord over-them like some landed-gentry over a feudal serfdom.

 

Self interest rules.

 

There-in lies some of the problems in the structure of football in England and why again The Premiership is a crap competition, especially when put up against the current Bundesliga.

 
No surprise in this - the Germans have a better system/structure.  

 

Cheers there.

 

Paul.       

 

                 

Underwatergoat2009-08-11 15:37:38
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
What's the big deal? It's the national team that will suffer anyway. Frankly, I couldn't care less where the players come from.
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I'm not reading all of that but...

a) If the Premier League didn't have the Top 4, they wouldn't be the most popular league in the world, in which case there'd be another, different league that would be the best in the world.

Don't diss the top 4, diss the ones that got left behind. Michael2009-08-11 16:46:21
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Underwatergoat what were you trying to achieve by starting this thread in a forum section where everyone loves english football? You're not going to change anyone's personal opinion on their favourite european league, end of.
 
Bottom line is that in NZ, the EPL is the most popular european league, and the big four are the most popular european teams. That is why the EPL is well televised, and that is why the big four are the most televised matches - doesnt matter who makes the programming decisions, there's only one reason these decisions are made, and it's because those games will get the highest ratings - THESE GAMES ARE THE ONES WE WANT TO SEE.
 
You obviously dont, so LIGHTBULB, dont watch them. Easy.
 
Now for my personal opinion:
 
1: I love the EPL
2: I love arsenal, i dont care if anyone wants to slag me and claim i'm a 'band wagon supporter', or a 'typical fairweather fan' or any of the rest of the bullsh*t people say. I love my team through and through, enough to get the crest tattooed on my arm despite never having seen them in the flesh. You can scoff at that too and i dont give a f*ck. I will love them forever and so will my arm. When i do see them live i will mess my pants when they come out of the tunnel.
3: I also dont give a f*ck about whether or not there's english players in my team or any other EPL team. Our managers/sporting directors etc didnt make the nationality rules, their jobs are to try and win, not try and make the english team better. I dont support england and dont much care for many of the players (excl. Walcott, Gibbs, Wilshere etc etc you get the drift).
 
Why dont you stick to your bundesliga love-fest and leave us with our EPL love-fest? We'll be happy, you'll obviously be happy, it'll be all milk and cookies for everyone.
 
Im done here.
paulm2009-08-11 20:24:32
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Hello there,

 

Sorry to point-out the bleeding obvious and to air my views which just happen to differ from your own & clearly you are a bigger-fan than me because you have a tattoo.

 

So pray-tell where else do I put a post of this nature?

 
The 'Cooking and Favourite Recipe' board?
 

By the way, when I last looked this was New Zealand and not North Korea.

 

I was expecting my summation would meet with derision from supporters of the �Big Four� � after all it is in your own myopic self-interest to ignore the facts and bask in the self-satisfaction of a system which perpetuates your dominance at the expense of the game as a whole.   

 

Financial polerisation is the key to your clubs success and one of the main reason why The Premiership a crap-competition & the model for the game is unsustainable.       

 

That�s why I have directed my post to the (a.) supporters of the other 90 odd clubs in England (b.) Kiwi born followers of the English game.

 

The Leeds, Southampton, Leicester etc supporters � what do you think about the structure?  

 

Frankly I don�t care what the fair-weather sailors onboard Arsenal,ManU, Chelsea or Liverpool (this week) think about the governance of the game in the U.K � it�s like debating the age of the earth with a biblical creationist.  

 

So you go-on ignoring the 3.0 billion pound debt-bomb, lack of English players in the English game, obscene wages, the rich getting richer, lack of depth, overseas ownership, lack of investment in developing players, clubs having a 10,000 to 1 chance of winning etc etc.

 

You all sit cosy, whilst Rome burns.

 

Continue to say now �great� the game in England is � when it isn�t.    

 

Ignore the facts I have provided why the German Bundesliga is a superior competition under superior governance � all of which have been missed whilst you �bury your heads in the sand� and rave on above what a big fan you are by getting a tattoo and the standard "I've been supporting my club since [insert last time your big-four team wasn't in the top half of divison one] I've heard it all before.

  

If you truly loved the game, as you profess, you would want to see it changed.

 
I get back to my original post: The Premiership IS a crap competition.   

 

See ya.

 

Paul.  

Underwatergoat2009-08-12 09:10:12
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
You are the one with your head buried in the sand with a one track mind and obviously not open to anybody else interpretations of English football.
If you think somebody's opinion isn't valid as they support the big four and are therefore biased, you must concede that your dislike of the big four makes your opinion biased as well. 
You should also surely recognise that the only opinions you want to here are those that agree with you.
As this has obviously not been the case and nobody has rallied to your cause I'm locking this discussion as a moot point and will delete any further topics that repeat the same articulations as here.
If you wanted to debate the point you had your chance but your insulting and derisive comments about the contributors to this thread haven't helped you cause. and just started a flame war.
You wont change anyones mind, and nobody else really cares about your interpretations.
Go watch the German league and be smug about its "obvious" superiority whilst the rest of us prepare to watch what we want. We are the consumers and who are you to say that the league we watch week in week out is crap because it doesn't have the same rule structure as a German League. 
teams like Fulham, Everton, Aston Villa and Arsenal have proved that you don't need to spend huge amounts of money to be competitive.
on a final note, all the EPL clubs are developing English youngsters to a very high standard, but the process takes time and at the end of the day the EPL is not responsible for keeping the English FA from having to spend money on developing its academy system.
If they hadn't spent such a ridiculous amount of money on that white elephant that is Wembly, they could have afforded to build the national academy they were planning along a similar line to Frances Clairefontaine.
English national football has no given right to be the best in the world or even Europe but you seem to be taking their decline personally and are looking for scapegoats.
 
 The Barclay's English Premier league FTW.
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