(The not-so-temporary quite-official) Gooner Thread (Part 2)

Congrats!

Haha Cheers Brumbs... and thanks everyone :)

And yeah, after showing some early promise followed by a plateau and a couple of injuries - I was given the opportunity to take my game to the next level in my favoured position and thankfully I took it (are you reading Theo?) haha!

Congrats buddy.

Yep congrats. Did the Cech signing provoke you into action? I actually got some pretty disappointing news that day but was unable to feel too down about it.

congrats surge

hope she's a gooner

I was youtubing a few DMs last night just to see what sort of skillsets they have.

I reckon we missed a trick with Kondogbia, he looked immense. Fast, good positioning, calm on the ball, excellent distribution.

I was quite unimpressed of what I saw from Schneiderlin and Carvahlo though. To be honest I thought they both looked really slow, and Schneiderlin's distribution didn't seem as good as Carvahlo's, who in turn was not as good as Kondogbia. 

Speed is critical in that position for any purchase we might make. Coquelin is certainly much quicker than the 3 I've mentioned above. 

I read some talk around Javi Martinez but I've heard that Guardiola put him to CB at Munich when he got there because his in-game intelligence wasn't good enough for a DM. If that's true then no thanks. Arteta may not be fast or physical, but he knows where to be, as does Coquelin, and that's the first thing for me for a DM. 

Yeah i have allways rated Kondogbia from Sevilla days but Inter paid 35mill for him i dont think we were going to splash out that kind of cash

She is now!

I would counter all of these statements with one word: 'ambition'.

If we're to be at the top table then Arsenal should not settle with 'what we've got is good enough'.  It's widely believed that, financially, we can now compete with the top tier so why rest on our laurels?  For both of these positions, DM and a forward player (and centre half too?), we should continue to look at the top end of the market. 

Barca didn't really need the Bitey Racist but they went out and got him and have gone ahead to have a successful season and set records.  Munich had a pretty good forward line but nicked Gotze off of their main, recent Bundesliga rival.

Sure a couple of years back I would certainly not expect improvement in the forward area but let's properly set out our stall.  We want more than an FA Cup this coming season - and the Board, Management and players now have the will and belief to exceed this too. 

We've done it once with a GK upgrade so let's keep marching on.

I understood your argument the first time, so I ask again, who are these strikers you are wanting us to buy? 

It has nothing to do with ambition and everything to do with availability. 

Ambition is just not the argument anymore - everyone was spouting that crap about Wenger 'choosing' not to spend 5 years or so ago. His behaviour since has put that to bed. As soon as we could afford it, he spent. 

42m on Ozil was the best example, but also now spending 11m on a player with no re-sale value in a position we were well stocked in. 

These are not the moves of a club without ambition. Wenger has repeated time and again that he is always ready to spend the money we have, but only if the player is an improvement on our current squad. 

Call him up, give him your (secret?) list!

Where is the improvement needed up front? 

Arguably it would be an "in the box" finisher. 

Which probably means running with 4-1-3-2

Who would be this player? Maybe Higuain. 

I don't believe we have much chance of bringing him in this season.

Higuain is being touted around at 70m which is a bit ridiculous.

The only proper world class strikers out there that I can think of that might be available would be Ibrahamovic, Cavani and Falcao. 

Falcao is seemingly only going out on loan, and would represent a poor gamble in my opinion, given his performances last season.

Cavani could be worth a shot to be honest. I think only one of him/ibra will leave, and one will stay. I don't know what sort of price we'd be looking at for Cavani though, and again it would be a risk given he's not played in England.

Ibra could be worth a shot, but he is ageing and his salary would be exorbitant. Plus he's got the potential to pull a balotelli.

I think you fellows are proving my argument with 'we don't have a chance of bringing him in' (I will have to discount paulm's angle as in living with him for 16 years + and then 'discussing' Arsenal/anything else since then he is immovable from his view point). 

Arsenal should now back themselves to have a chance.  Or can the mindset not shift enough?  I think it has as there was the failed negotiations over the Bitey Racist - so why not have another crack for similar levels of player in the striking depart this summer.

As to whom?  Any of the players that were referred to above.  If there's no belief that they can be got then we still feel like we're not part of the top 10 or so in Europe (I will admit one or two are sacrosanct but that still leaves plenty to enquire about/negotiate for).

Where is the improvement needed? You must have missed our big games this season.

You don't win the Premier League with someone like Giroud as your number one centre-forward, let alone with your number two centre forward as Theo Walcott. You do with Henry and Bergkamp, you do with RVP, you do with Costa, you do with Aguero. 

Who do we get? Higuain, Tevez, Cavani, Muller, Benzema, Ibra, Morata, Bacca, Mandzukic was available. If we can't get one, but then we can't expect to win the league.

I don't think you guys get it.

I'm sure we will be enquiring about all sorts of players all over the place. 

It's not about ambition. You act as if we are choosing not to sign better strikers than what we have. Fact is there just aren't any options that are appealing.

Morata, don't make me laugh. How on earth would that be upgrading? Are you seriously saying if we're heading out to play Chelsea you'd rather have a 22yo Madrid offcast leading the line than Giroud or Walcott? Ok...

Tevez, old and gone home to Argentina, never wanted to come back to England.

Muller's not the type of striker for the EPL in my opinion. I don't think he'd improve us - where does he fit in our lineup? Not big enough to play as a lone striker in the EPL, not fast enough to play wide.

Bacca, high chance of being a flop, would require time to get used to EPL. Again, can't see this guy starting ahead of what we have. 

Mandzukic, not good enough for Bayern, so doesn't strike me as very ambitious. If Giroud were leaving he might make a good replacement. 

Higuain, way too risky at 70m for any club, even the richest ones. If ManU were to splash that on him we'd all have a laugh about it, that tells you all you need to know.

That brings us back to Ibra and Cavani. The only two I identified as potentially available and potentially better than what we have (Ibra definitely, Cavani maybe). Ibra might be more trouble than he's worth, but I'd take him in a heartbeat. I'd take Cavani too. If they become available then I would hope we make a run at it, but if they don't, then striker is just not a priority. 

Bacca has just signed for AC Milan hasn't he? Would love Ibra, but can never see that happening. We are stuck in a bit of a jam of wanting better but better not being available. Unless some Bale/Ozick musical chairs happens I can't see us getting another top striker this window

Fudgeing iPhone. Ozick is meant to be Ozil

Seems a bit silly but whatever floats your boat!

To be fair we actually agree on this particular point. I just don't believe we have any choice in the matter. You think we do. That's the only difference in our respective immovable viewpoints ;)

Cavani hasn't managed to usurp Ibra in his time at PSG. Ibra hates us because Wenger wanted a trial before he signed him a number of years ago. Benzema, Lacazette would be a good option for us. Ultimately there's very few out there I'd see us sign. Now amReus signing on the other hand.;

I wanted Higuain last time, and would still like him but I don't see us trying for him again and especially not at the rumoured price.

Ultimately the best strikers in the world tend to already be at the biggest clubs who win the trophies. We're not able to match their wages and prior to the last couple of years haven't been able to offer a genuine chance at the trophies either. We're not seen as a step up, so our best chance at signing the kind of stars we're talking about from the big clubs are when they have lost their place in the side and fallen out of favour. See our last 3 big signings - Ozil, Sanchez, Cech.

That's a good point ajc, but to be fair ozil and sanchez hadnt lost their places, their respective clubs just thought they could upgrade. 

Some might say neymar and suarez constitute an upgrade on sanchez but I wouldn't agree with that for a second, I think Sanchez is on the level with those guys. Ozil, well Madrid have changed their game a wee bit, but they haven't replaced him with anyone better in my opinion. Yep they paid all that money for Rodriguez and Bale, but they're different players, and they're not enjoying the same success as Ozil, particularly in Bale's case.

Cech yes he was overtaken, but I don't believe that's because Courtois is necessarily better, I think it was the smart decision from Mourinho, because now he's probably locked in Courtois for a very long time, longer than Cech's career was going to last. I think they are two very even keepers, in a group of maybe 5 (neuer, de gea and buffon?) who are the best in the world.

Sounds like Poldi has signed for Galatasaray and Jenkinson is going back to Westham on loan.

Also rumours that Campbell will be sold, and Sanogo may head to Lille on loan for the season.

Flamini supposedly being sold. 

Interestingly, Arteta has still not signed a new contract. 

I wonder if that is hinging on whether or not Arsene gets the DM he might be after?

Sorry but that's a really poor argument. Pogba is one of the most sought after midfielders in Europe despite being a Man U offcast. Morata proved in big games in Europe this season that he is a striker who rises to the occasion. 

And Mandzukic was good enough for Bayern. He scored 26 goals in their treble winning season but had a falling out when Pep moved in and was shifted on.

Similar arguments were brought out last season when Wenger decided not to re-sign Fabregas. It was deemed he wouldn't be a massive improvement on what we already had so no need for him. Yet his form with Chelsea (particularly first half of the season) proved how pivotal he was in a title winning side. 

If the price is right then any striker that is at or slightly above Giroud's level we should move for. Elite clubs are assembling squads that have superb depth to offset the 50-60 games they play every season (plus internationals for those picked). 

It's the same thing really. I completely agree on your points about Ozil and Sanchez, but the fact remains someone had to make way for Bale and Suarez and they were the players chosen and we capitalised. We're unlikely to be able to get those guys when they are key players for the likes of Real or Barcelona. Those are the kind of players we should be looking at - someone at one of those big clubs who is likely to make way for a mega signing.

In that case Chelsea aren't showing much ambition - they should be taking Sanchez from us to upgrade on Willian!

I'm just kidding but you get my drift ;)

Fair call Buffon, on Mandzukic. But to be fair they did upgrade bringing in Lewandoski.

To me if we're going to buy a striker it needs to be a lewandoski, not a mandzukic. 

If my argument is poor then your Pogba argument is worse! He was not an offcast by any stretch, they wanted to keep him at ManU, most seem to agree they made a huge mistake there. He was going out of contract and they just didn't give him enough playing time to keep him - but we do do that for young players. You don't see Ramsey and the likes upping sticks like Pogba did. 

Mandzukic is not an upgrade on Giroud. 

If, and it's still a big if, we go in for a striker there has to be a point of difference in their style of play , and the tactical formation the rest of the squad will play to enhance that.

Not rocket science is it.

I think Buffy raises a good point by talking about Morata but with the Old Lady losing Tevez why would he be departing as well?

So, what strikers are different to Giroud, then Walcott. Again  I return to  Hig, again I feel it is unlikely and that is nothing to do with tightwad Wenger, led by the nose board, or lack of ambition. 

Bringing this back up.

Just a thought, would you consider a Wilshire/Aguero swap?

I'm not sure in what world Man City would trade Aguero for Wilshere; but I think most Arsenal fans would bite City's hand off for that. I like Wilshire, but he's not even a certain starter.

Poldi gone to gala

In other "where strikers go to die" news, apparently van Persie has agreed personal terms with Fenerbahçe. 

A good one to get off the wage bill, straight swap for Cech's wages coming in.

Podolski's attitude was fantastic just didn't fit the system

Sánchez just kicked the winning penalty in the Copa America final. And it was a panenka. 

Clip is here. What a hero.

70million higuain missed the chance of the game in the last minute of normal time, then skied his peno in the shootout. 

I'll have Giroud thanks. 

Class from Sanchez and obviously wasn't affected by missing against Brazil in the shootout in the World Cup. Also missed the one he took for us didn't he?

Yeah Sanchez didn't go well from the spot, happy to leave that to Cazorla/Arteta. Unless he's on his hat trick that is.

BBC talking about Vidal and Pedro again... if Vidal happens (not likely I don't think) that'd be Jacks ticket to Cheshire I reckon.

Charlie Austin, why not give him a nudge? English striker who was banging them in for a sinking ship. Could be the alternative to Giroud/Walcott people are looking for. Wouldn't be too pricey given the situation QPR are in.

Sounds like a Liverpool signing to me.