Anyone who thinks the PL is worth a bucket of piss without United, Liverpool, or Chelsea is dreaming. Kicking them out would devalue the league to virtually nothing.
Anyone who thinks the PL is worth a bucket of piss without United, Liverpool, or Chelsea is dreaming. Kicking them off would devalue the league to virtually nothing.
20 years ago, Chelsea wasn't a big club. Had a few famous pros at the end of their career with some upper half finishes in the league and having not won it since the 50s.
Man City were in the 2nd tier, last winning the league in the 60s.
This was the third story on 3 news tonight, can only imagine the airwaves and television coverage this is getting in Europe. Have been following live streams all day at work and I could barely keep up until it got to the wee hours in Europe land.
Interesting point about Silver Lake Investments too at the end of the segment (rugby fans may have heard of them...) they've basically got a 10% in the City Football Group ($500 million).
Time to invite Burnley and a few others down for the Wellington Super League? Kind of a joke, but that Newcastle and West Ham thing was some fun. Though we over-estimated A-Rod's goal scoring potential as a result.
> 20Legend, re: tv timeouts, how is the crux of that any different to the wholesale selling out of the premier league to the broadcasters? They've not introduced timeouts but the PL schedule is absurd, 100% tailored to the tv market, fans be damned.
Yeah I can see your point but at least current state has some semblance of competitive integrity across it. By completely handing ownership over to a few clubs the dynamic changes even moreso than the Premier League.
I don't buy these comparisons with the change to the Premier League. Yes it was commercially driven, but fundamentally teams still have to perform on the field.
Sorry man- as a 90s United fan we've gotta realise that money talks. Sheffield have gone back down, so have Bournemouth. United won with financial muscle as much as with the class of 92. They started the move to this era. And this just makes it stark. Maybe they factor on a lot of fans outside Europe and enough in Europe? It's also a comment on greed- two clubs famously financed by petro-dollars as we fail to meet climate challenges... Edit: thinking about it a bit further Manchester and Liverpool were history we could drape over the sport we follow to pretend it's not the America's Cup.
Chelsea and Man City pulling out! Huge news. Super league blinking first. El grap you might be right about them underestimating the backlash.
oh fudge, sorry mods. I reported a reply to this message.
Anyway, Its worth considering the owners of these clubs. City and Chelsea, psg are so loaded that they aren't fused about profit. So understandable that city and chelsea can pull out. While clubs with American investors or controllers - liverpool, manu, arsenal, Milan, inter- will hold on to the new model because their current business models are unsustainable
I have an amazing ability to find my way out of mazes. I'm pathological.
Yes the irony of those clubs being seen as heroes is not lost on me Arsenal based their future model on FFP and Uefas promise to uphold it, and they waltzed in and destroyed it
Juve come out to say that agnelli has not resigned and barca have come out saying that despite saying earlier that they weren't in, they definitely aren't out...
I have an amazing ability to find my way out of mazes. I'm pathological.
This is a massive win for the fans. Im impressed. And I was very wrong on the preparedness of these club owners for the backlash. They wilted immediately, its been amazing to witness this morning. How could they not have seen it coming? Talk about out of touch. I assumed these people must be smarter than that, not so! Most important thing for me now is that fans arent swayed by this into thinking uefa are some kind of heroes, or that the chelsea and man city style models are the future. I hope this is a catalyst for fans in europe to realise the power they have, and to use it more effectively. We are seeing decentralisation of so many things in this world, for the better, consumers taking control of what they consume and cutting out the crap. Why cant we take control of the clubs? Perhaps that is the real future.
Nothing in the Italian news to suggest the snake Agnelli has resigned. The thing you need to realise about Juventus is they're as unrepentant as the most hardened criminal. For instance, despite being docked 2 titles (and being relegated - though only to the second division), they still claim they have won those two league titles "on the pitch". This, after being found guilty of corruption and match fixing IN THE COURTS. They care for nothing other than their own success.
Well done to PSG and the Bundesliga sides for not signing up in the first place, and to Chelsea and City for pulling out.
I think in the case of PSG, it was about protecting BEIN's latest champions league investment.
But fudgeing huge credit to the Bundesliga sides.
So far, for me, the fans and the bundesliga sides are the ones coming out of this looking good right now. Those bundesliga sides that said no, particularly the ones other than bayern who are far from secure in their european qualification, are the ones who really showed balls and put it all one the line. The players response was weak. It came slowly, and the wording was careful so as not to do them out of super league contracts should it go ahead. I dont blame them, they gotta look out for their futures, but the about turn was not down to them whatsoever. The tv pundits are funded and platformed by entities with vested interests in it not going ahead, so cannot be taken seriously. The broadcasters, UEFA and FIFA are now emboldened to continue on their merry way, as are clubs like man city, chelsea and psg. At some point in future we'll see changes in european football that will be along very similar lines to this league, but will be deemed more palatable as the power structures we're used to will be the ones rolling it out.
ESL - full steam ahead on sunday; sunk like the titanic on Wednesday. well done to the fans for speaking out and reminding the clubs who they are here for. It was said earlier that the clubs would have thought about fan reaction and considered it etc, this change of tack so quickly says that they hadnt considered how anti the fans sentiment would be.
Well done to PSG and the Bundesliga sides for not signing up in the first place, and to Chelsea and City for pulling out.
I think in the case of PSG, it was about protecting BEIN's latest champions league investment.
But fudgeing huge credit to the Bundesliga sides.
So far, for me, the fans and the bundesliga sides are the ones coming out of this looking good right now. Those bundesliga sides that said no, particularly the ones other than bayern who are far from secure in their european qualification, are the ones who really showed balls and put it all one the line. The players response was weak. It came slowly, and the wording was careful so as not to do them out of super league contracts should it go ahead. I dont blame them, they gotta look out for their futures, but the about turn was not down to them whatsoever. The tv pundits are funded and platformed by entities with vested interests in it not going ahead, so cannot be taken seriously. The broadcasters, UEFA and FIFA are now emboldened to continue on their merry way, as are clubs like man city, chelsea and psg. At some point in future we'll see changes in european football that will be along very similar lines to this league, but will be deemed more palatable as the power structures we're used to will be the ones rolling it out.
UEFA continue to still be disproportionately influenced by these few wealthy clubs - if anything they should be rolling back the many concessions they have made over the years.
ESL - full steam ahead on sunday; sunk like the titanic on Wednesday. well done to the fans for speaking out and reminding the clubs who they are here for. It was said earlier that the clubs would have thought about fan reaction and considered it etc, this change of tack so quickly says that they hadnt considered how anti the fans sentiment would be.
100%. Made a fool of me, I gave the owners way too much credit in assuming that. How out of touch can they be to have not expected that?!?!!
ESL - full steam ahead on sunday; sunk like the titanic on Wednesday. well done to the fans for speaking out and reminding the clubs who they are here for. It was said earlier that the clubs would have thought about fan reaction and considered it etc, this change of tack so quickly says that they hadnt considered how anti the fans sentiment would be.
100%. Made a fool of me, I gave the owners way too much credit in assuming that. How out of touch can they be to have not expected that?!?!!
never under estimate how stupid the big corps can be.
Well done to PSG and the Bundesliga sides for not signing up in the first place, and to Chelsea and City for pulling out.
I think in the case of PSG, it was about protecting BEIN's latest champions league investment.
But fudgeing huge credit to the Bundesliga sides.
So far, for me, the fans and the bundesliga sides are the ones coming out of this looking good right now. Those bundesliga sides that said no, particularly the ones other than bayern who are far from secure in their european qualification, are the ones who really showed balls and put it all one the line. The players response was weak. It came slowly, and the wording was careful so as not to do them out of super league contracts should it go ahead. I dont blame them, they gotta look out for their futures, but the about turn was not down to them whatsoever. The tv pundits are funded and platformed by entities with vested interests in it not going ahead, so cannot be taken seriously. The broadcasters, UEFA and FIFA are now emboldened to continue on their merry way, as are clubs like man city, chelsea and psg. At some point in future we'll see changes in european football that will be along very similar lines to this league, but will be deemed more palatable as the power structures we're used to will be the ones rolling it out.
This is a bit harsh on the players isn’t it. I think it’s fair to give someone at least 24 hours to think things through before they publicly slam their bosses, particularly given that they weren’t told in advance. By Tuesday players were coming out in opposition, including most Liverpool players jointly releasing a very explicit statement on social media. Given how blindsided they all were I don’t think they’re the ones to blame here imo.
Well done to PSG and the Bundesliga sides for not signing up in the first place, and to Chelsea and City for pulling out.
I think in the case of PSG, it was about protecting BEIN's latest champions league investment.
But fudgeing huge credit to the Bundesliga sides.
So far, for me, the fans and the bundesliga sides are the ones coming out of this looking good right now. Those bundesliga sides that said no, particularly the ones other than bayern who are far from secure in their european qualification, are the ones who really showed balls and put it all one the line. The players response was weak. It came slowly, and the wording was careful so as not to do them out of super league contracts should it go ahead. I dont blame them, they gotta look out for their futures, but the about turn was not down to them whatsoever. The tv pundits are funded and platformed by entities with vested interests in it not going ahead, so cannot be taken seriously. The broadcasters, UEFA and FIFA are now emboldened to continue on their merry way, as are clubs like man city, chelsea and psg. At some point in future we'll see changes in european football that will be along very similar lines to this league, but will be deemed more palatable as the power structures we're used to will be the ones rolling it out.
This is a bit harsh on the players isn’t it. I think it’s fair to give someone at least 24 hours to think things through before they publicly slam their bosses, particularly given that they weren’t told in advance. By Tuesday players were coming out in opposition, including most Liverpool players jointly releasing a very explicit statement on social media. Given how blindsided they all were I don’t think they’re the ones to blame here imo.
This^^
And, particularly in the case of people like SAF, you can get more done by sitting down at the table and having a conversation and asserting influence, vs throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
It's 1000x more effective for players to sit down with management first and say look, we don't support this and we're gonna speak out if you progress.
Gahh, I wrote a big bloody post to thank the fans and then refreshed the page by accident.
So in short;
Thanks to all the fans who stood against this super league proposal. I've never seen such unity from the fans, and from those who traditionally hate each other on and off the pitch too. To see the action and reaction against these renegade billionaire owners was actually a sight to behold, even if we all would have personally not liked to have gone through such an ordeal at all.
The supporters have, and always will own this game. It was just so pleasing that everyone in the football world banded together to fight against the greed and financial monopolization of football.
Don't get it twisted, there will be ramifications for years to come as a result of this shambles, but I for one am hopeful that the abhorrent and bullish behaviour of the few will hopefully be put on the back burner for the foreseeable future, in the wake of the passionate and tribal reaction from all football supporters (or most of them anyway...)
Well done to PSG and the Bundesliga sides for not signing up in the first place, and to Chelsea and City for pulling out.
I think in the case of PSG, it was about protecting BEIN's latest champions league investment.
But fudgeing huge credit to the Bundesliga sides.
So far, for me, the fans and the bundesliga sides are the ones coming out of this looking good right now. Those bundesliga sides that said no, particularly the ones other than bayern who are far from secure in their european qualification, are the ones who really showed balls and put it all one the line. The players response was weak. It came slowly, and the wording was careful so as not to do them out of super league contracts should it go ahead. I dont blame them, they gotta look out for their futures, but the about turn was not down to them whatsoever. The tv pundits are funded and platformed by entities with vested interests in it not going ahead, so cannot be taken seriously. The broadcasters, UEFA and FIFA are now emboldened to continue on their merry way, as are clubs like man city, chelsea and psg. At some point in future we'll see changes in european football that will be along very similar lines to this league, but will be deemed more palatable as the power structures we're used to will be the ones rolling it out.
This is a bit harsh on the players isn’t it. I think it’s fair to give someone at least 24 hours to think things through before they publicly slam their bosses, particularly given that they weren’t told in advance. By Tuesday players were coming out in opposition, including most Liverpool players jointly releasing a very explicit statement on social media. Given how blindsided they all were I don’t think they’re the ones to blame here imo.
Good point on the speed of their statements. Disagree on the content. "Very explicit", yes, very explicitly leaving out any threat that they wouldn't sign. They went with the easy message, nothing specific. Same with all the other players who spoke out. No risks taken. I think it could be accurately read as "we don't want it, hopefully it doesn't happen, but if it does we will probably sign up". And there was zero "public slamming of bosses". Again, I don't blame them, I'm not slandering here, I would've done the same in their position. But they're not heroes. All very safe and risk free from the players perspective, nothing at all like the balls shown by the german club ownership, for example. As an aside, I see the PSG president is now the head of the ECA. Convenient turn of events.
Something I really like about this is that it's a win for capitalism. The modern sports league formats (often considered the american style but in reality seen throughout the world), are a more socialist style model, with salary caps etc, and guaranteed participation regardless of performance. And they bring the typical socialist problems - hypocrisy and greed at the leadership level. It's great that football fans reject that, and really value merit-based participation.
Something I really like about this is that it's a win for capitalism. The modern sports league formats (often considered the american style but in reality seen throughout the world), are a more socialist style model, with salary caps etc, and guaranteed participation regardless of performance. And they bring the typical socialist problems - hypocrisy and greed at the leadership level. It's great that football fans reject that, and really value merit-based participation.
That's a biased way of looking at things. What the ESL clubs were trying to do is what capitalism, without regulation, leads to - the wealthy and powerful setting up markets to their benefit.
You know what particularly irks me about the Super League... the Spanish clubs (Barca/Real) have seemingly spent endless amounts of money sucking up anyone half talented to maintain their level of success. Now the shark hits the fans and the pricks need to change world football to stay a float.
Granted, I realise United and the other English teams do this. But it's always felt like at least there's been a limit of some point. Whereas with Barca/Real it's always felt like they can break world transfer fees every window with money they fundamentally don't have.
I wouldn't shed a tear if those clubs went bust and had to start again.
Something I really like about this is that it's a win for capitalism. The modern sports league formats (often considered the american style but in reality seen throughout the world), are a more socialist style model, with salary caps etc, and guaranteed participation regardless of performance. And they bring the typical socialist problems - hypocrisy and greed at the leadership level. It's great that football fans reject that, and really value merit-based participation.
That's a biased way of looking at things. What the ESL clubs were trying to do is what capitalism, without regulation, leads to - the wealthy and powerful setting up markets to their benefit.
The debate of socialism vs capitalism is best left alone in this forum as it will go wild and most probably result in me being reprimanded, as has happened in the past. This place tends to get policed by opinion rather than rules when it comes to these sorts of topics. Lets just say I don't believe my post was biased toward anything or anybody, and move on!
Hopefully this actually takes back some of the power big clubs are exerting over UEFA. For years have used a breakaway as a bargaining chip. Now if they say 'if you don't change x we will do a super league', UEFA can say 'no you won't'.
