Not interested. Rich getting richer and poor getting poorer.
Will mean that each squad will be 36 strong, wheel out the b team for the premier league (but that won’t be a bad side as they can pay the bucks) and the a team for the midweek game.
A truely bastardised version of the current inequity
Rich people trying to take advantage of the current COVID crises and trying to get richer just as they did after the last credit crunch
"The six clubs should be immediately dropped to the fourth tier. Then the chief executive and chairmen should be IMMEDIATELY arrested and held without bail for crimes against football.". 😂
More seriously. "World governing body Fifa had previously said it would not recognise such a competition, and any players involved could be denied the chance to play at a World Cup.
Uefa, Europe's governing body, reiterated that warning on Sunday when it said players involved would be banned from all other competitions at domestic, European or world level and could be prevented from representing their national teams.". Hmm... 🤔
If it does somehow go ahead I can imagine a lot of players walking away from these clubs. They may have more money being thrown at them to be a part of this abomination of a 'League' but the very strong response from the Premier League, UEFA, and FIFA, regarding sanctions/bans and non recognition of said abomination would force the hand of a lot of players, who say, would want to play for their national team, or be able to compete at a World Cup, or at least attempt to qualify for one. (or the various confederation championships).
The more I think about it, the more I think it's being used as a poor negotiation tactic for those against the new format Champions League (of which, details were to be revealed and formalized overnight tonight). Either against the format, or against their share of what they'd get in their back pockets - I strongly suspect it's the latter...
Still, I believe the idea is reprehensible, and should it go ahead I've already said I would walk away from supporting United. As Gary Neville said in one of his videos - this is disown your club type stuff.
woah. this is huge. so many reprecusion. I've had the day off today and spend the whole time reading what i can find out, here are a couple of points I've found interesting: - Juve, Liverpool, Arsenal and Manu have left the ECA, and now that could be interpreted as them leaving UEFA and therefore FIFA. people are still trying to figure that out. - supporters across the world calling for blood. Chelsea, Spurs and Manu fans bodies coming out calling for their clubs to pull out. - Tottenham got in on having assets at the right time (stadium, Kane, Mou) and recent CL performances. - the Super league model resembles the north American sport competition models. locked leagues, constant big games etc. - PSG, Dortmond and Bayern are not as opposed as being stated. Higher ups inside all 3 clubs expect to join the league before it is finalised. though all 3 have very big questions. But they all fear being left out so will watch the initial fallout before making any moves. - SLco is already lawyering up to sue UEFA, FIFA and the leagues - not sure how solid the grounds are but files have been lodged. -FIFA against it, but not as strongly as UEFA or the domestic leagues. - at the moment, no one wants to buy the rights for the SL, and in fact many broadcasters are gearing up to sue the defecting clubs for damaging deals. - The Athletic has some amazing coverage on this. i have a few trial passes if anyone wants one.
Charlie Austin, who currently plays for QPR on loan from West Brom, has called for the Carabao Cup final on Sunday between Super League founding clubs Tottenham and Manchester City to be voided. “Football as we know it in this country is going to be smashed to pieces,” he tweeted. “These 6 clubs are a shambles and just proves this game is all about money to them! Void the league cup final Sunday!! Dock them all points and relegate them! No longer the working man’s game!” "
I would Expel all top 6 clubs from Senior, u23, u21, Reserves, Youth teams - both men's and women's teams permanently. Tough luck, they rolled their dice, let them pay the price. Sure they might last a while on their 5 billion but if the real fans of those clubs moved their support, those new stadiums will have very little atmosphere except for a few plastic glory hunters. I have yet to see on Face Book, one fan supporting the idea. And block any player from playing at any level for any national team. Are you in it for football and honours or in it for the dosh?? Kinda reminds me of that rebel outfit that went to South Africa many years ago.
woah. this is huge. so many reprecusion. I've had the day off today and spend the whole time reading what i can find out, here are a couple of points I've found interesting: - Juve, Liverpool, Arsenal and Manu have left the ECA, and now that could be interpreted as them leaving UEFA and therefore FIFA. people are still trying to figure that out. - supporters across the world calling for blood. Chelsea, Spurs and Manu fans bodies coming out calling for their clubs to pull out. - Tottenham got in on having assets at the right time (stadium, Kane, Mou) and recent CL performances. - the Super league model resembles the north American sport competition models. locked leagues, constant big games etc. - PSG, Dortmond and Bayern are not as opposed as being stated. Higher ups inside all 3 clubs expect to join the league before it is finalised. though all 3 have very big questions. But they all fear being left out so will watch the initial fallout before making any moves. - SLco is already lawyering up to sue UEFA, FIFA and the leagues - not sure how solid the grounds are but files have been lodged. -FIFA against it, but not as strongly as UEFA or the domestic leagues. - at the moment, no one wants to buy the rights for the SL, and in fact many broadcasters are gearing up to sue the defecting clubs for damaging deals. - The Athletic has some amazing coverage on this. i have a few trial passes if anyone wants one.
I didn't realise how far along this, not just talk, with members of clubs removing themselves from ECA.
One positive Dortmund have said no and suggested they hold a similar position to BM. These clubs are majority owned by the fans, as are all but a few German clubs, so unlikely they join (maybe RB Leipzig, but most German fans would be happy about that). The fans made a huge stink with games being played on Mondays as it meant it was hard for away fans to attend games, so much so that the DFL stopped Monday night games.
I do think it brings in question these "super league" clubs' current affiliation to UEFA and its current competitions and the national leagues which they compete in. I don't know about banning/excessively punishing them now (though would love them kicked down to non-league) as that could only hasten their exit.
If this happens it will break my heart. The club's that are doing this are fudgeing shameful and should be stamped down on hard by FIFA. Hopefully the notion that players can't play for their countries will scare high class players out of it. Until then I refuse to support Liverpool until they are out of this ridiculous league, and furthermore I want to see FSG gone. Fudgeing cods. Fudge the Super League.
I think people might be surprised. These clubs would have predicted all these possibilities in the fallout. They will be prepared for this. They have left the ECA, they are not afraid of being kicked out of their domestic leagues, players banned from international football etc. Why? Money talks. In the end the players will still go to these teams and sacrifice it all. The money involved dwarfs current revenues. Player wages will be higher. Players will sign. Some wont, but most will. I think the announcement is a power play from these clubs, listen to what we want to happen with the champs league, or else. Its important to also remember that UEFA themselves have actively attempted to create a super league like this in the past. FIFA is wanting to expand everything for money and sold a world cup to qatar. Yes paint the club owners as the bad guys but when it comes down to it, everyone in this game is greedy,. If all these complaining players are so pure then why did they all leave their original clubs for higher salaries and european football? Dont think for a second that the new generation of players wont be keen to go after the bigger salary and the chance to play against the best teams week in week out. I see this as the equivalent to the rugby league battle in the 90s, and the world series cricket battle in the late 70s. This league may not be the end game, but its changing, and this is the first catalyst. Im not a fan, i prefer the structure we have now, but i see why this is happening, its been on the cards for years. And if it does happen, then i'd rather my team was in than out.
So abandon the current league structures and leave other clubs for the proverbial scrap heap?
No thanks, I'd rather give my subscription and merch $$$ to a club that actually gives a shark about their fans and gives them an outlet regarding what they think, rather than throw them to the wolves.
This is going to be a disaster. For all the leagues these 12 teams are currently part of and whatever for the super league takes when/if it starts. FIFA/UEFA will not stand for this kind of thing, both organisations like to have 100% control. These 12 will be booted from all FIFA/UEFA tournaments, meaning all they have to play in is their 36 game super league. Good luck keeping all your players paid and playing with the money a league that the fans arent watching or spending money on/at. Whatever money the clubs are putting into this must be being paid back + profit by TV rights. If the fans are truly unhappy with this direction then we wont watch and then when the TV deal becomes worthless, as do any gameday tickets. The only way we as fans make a difference here is by not showing up to these renegade games.
I'm ashamed that my club is a part of this and I'd imagine past players and managers are as well.
Theprof I think you and others are wildly underestimating the power these clubs currently have, and also what the players and fans will actually do, if it were to go ahead as suggested (I don't think it will to be honest). We all like to posture about the tradition and the moral correctness of it all, but in the end if the big players are in this league, then the fans will want to see it. Yes older fans will talk with their feet and their wallets but in the end it's the younger fans who drive the interest, the corporate "fans" who drive the money, and they won't be swayed by the same factors. They just want to see the big players make the big plays. And if there is bigger money in this league, then the players will play in it, no doubt about that. Gary Neville can talk all he wants but I guarantee you the 20 year old Neville wouldn't have left Man United in protest had this happened in his time. And look how quiet the players are at these actual clubs. If it goes ahead, a place in one of these squads will be the golden ticket. If domestic leagues are operating without these clubs, and without these players, then they will have a fight on their hands to keep the interest, regardless of how many old men protest and wave banners. FIFA knows all this, UEFA knows all this. I think for them to go through with a ban rather than heading for a negotiating table would be a riskier move than the move these clubs have made. The only historical sporting situation I can recall like this where the governing bodies were not forced to drastically change in some way and bend to the agitators was the Rebels tour in rugby, and the big difference there was it was an argument along racial and political lines, a whole different kettle of fish. When it's 100% about money, the entities who get the eyeballs and therefore the money, will mostly get their way (rightly or wrongly). This is a war. And I think we are underestimating the power on the clubs' side of the table by several orders of magnitude.
perhaps, you are right though these clubs are massive and have deep deep pockets. I'm not 100% convinced that the current leagues need these teams. Maybe the EPL - given it is the 6 "top" teams that are looking to defect. I'd like to see FIFA/UEFA take some control of the situation and boot the 12 out of every league/comp they are in right now. No more games, no more trophies, nothing! I'm sure FIFA could come up with some reason that these clubs are in breach of their contracts/agreements.
As a player/coach I'd want to be playing as often as possible, if this super league is the only tournament I'm playing in and I'm because I'm playing in it I cant play/coach my country I'd be seriously considering my options. Some players are in it for the $$$, but most are doing it cos they love the game and the connection they have with the fans. This league will become so stale so fast it will lose interest for many of the players who enjoy the uncertainty of the CL. The only people this super league will benefit is the owners and their shareholders, which is all they care about.
I don't really care about the inequity of football clubs, that ship has sailed.
But beyond the financial inequity football has always maintained a level of competitive integrity. By allowing permanent qualification into the competition to a handful of teams you are ingraining that inequity to the founding clubs. Regardless of the morality of that, it's fudgeing boring. One of the biggest issues with sports like Super Rugby is if your team isn't winning there's virtually nothing to play for, so there's no tension or care for different results.
It's worth noting that the league brings with it spending caps. That isn't in the best interest of fans, that's in the best interest of owners who are now guaranteed profits.
Back to competitive integrity - with the clubs controlling all aspects of the competition, how long before we start seeing "TV timeouts" in order to run ad breaks, like they do in Basketball and NFL?
Like these American sports, owners of lesser teams can invest very little knowing that the value of the asset isn't in being successful but being one of the founding members with a guaranteed revenue source.
So abandon the current league structures and leave other clubs for the proverbial scrap heap?
No thanks, I'd rather give my subscription and merch $$$ to a club that actually gives a shark about their fans and gives them an outlet regarding what they think, rather than throw them to the wolves.
This game is dead. 🤬
Yea just to stress, I am not a fan of this proposed league. I prefer the traditional structure with qualification via your domestic league etc. I just understand why this is happening, and that it has historical parallels with other sports and even events in football itself (92 premier league deal for example). I am giving a little bit of a devil's advocate argument as I feel we're getting mostly a one way opinion, which is swaying the thinking.
I'm surprised to see NZ fans (on social media, not necessarily here) complaining about doing away with promotion/relegation as if it's some kind of sacred principle when we are so used to this model in our sports here, and rarely complain. Virtually all of our sporting leagues here do not involve relegation/promotion. Personally I still lament the change in 1995 to establish the super rugby teams in the first place, I've told anyone who would listen for a long time that I much prefer the european method. It's destroyed the NPC completely and hugely diluted the fanaticism of being a fan of your team (Hurricanes hat today, Lions hat tomorrow). The NPC is just a development league with little interest now for the most part (and ironically it's basically our only semi-high profile competition with promotion/relegation). But significantly, despite all that, super rugby was successful. 20Legend, re: tv timeouts, how is the crux of that any different to the wholesale selling out of the premier league to the broadcasters? They've not introduced timeouts but the PL schedule is absurd, 100% tailored to the tv market, fans be damned. This current proposal is just an extension of all these things, it's the logical next step. I mentioned in a previous post that UEFA have literally been trying to attempt something like this for years. From 2017 (just one example); https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2627239-uefa-reportedly-ready-to-accept-champions-league-overhaul-proposal "UEFA ... is willing to accept a format that would see the continent's major clubs play against each other more regularly." The only reason FIFA and UEFA are crying foul is because they didn't do this, this time - they are not in control. Revamping the league to guarantee participation of the biggest clubs, and to increase the number of games between them, has 100% been on UEFA's agenda. They are using the fans' outrage as a tool in this instance. Do not be fooled, the greed is across the board when it comes to money in sport. Regarding this comment prof:
"As a player/coach I'd want to be playing as often as possible, if this super league is the only tournament I'm playing in and I'm because I'm playing in it I cant play/coach my country I'd be seriously considering my options. Some players are in it for the $$$, but most are doing it cos they love the game and the connection they have with the fans. This league will become so stale so fast it will lose interest for many of the players who enjoy the uncertainty of the CL. The only people this super league will benefit is the owners and their shareholders, which is all they care about."
Those issues will all be easily solved. If the participants of this league get banned from all other football, they will simply expand it. The current format is for midweek games. The power play will be to shift to weekends and destroy the domestic leagues in worldwide ratings. Bigger league, more games, and then perhaps their own kind of tournament for higher honours e.g. when we had Super League down here, they also created their own version of the State of Origin, and expanded it to include NZ (which I very much enjoyed as a teenage rugby league fan who was not wedded to the history of the competition).
And we have good historical record of the situation with players and money and what will occur. 99% of them will want to be in this league, regardless of any social media posturing now. When Chelsea and Man City threw new money everywhere, they struggled to attract players for about about 5 minutes. Many people said they don't have european football, they havent been successful recently, no one will come, but then they came. Crespo etc for Chelsea, Robinho etc for Man City, and the rest is history. The world series of cricket hoovered up 99% of the biggest talent despite outrage, and easily. Gary Neville, Jamie Carragher, all the other old players complaining, they are retired, they have no decisions to make. The young players will not feel that way. You might get the odd one staying out of it on principle, but the vast majority will be all over it. Again, I'm not a fan of this, but I can see why it's happened, and the history of professional sport gives us ideas on how it might go from here. And as I said before, if it does happen, and the sport changes permanently, then I would rather my team is in than out.
You gotta laugh at neville and carragher. They had the supreme luck of their home town clubs being the two biggest clubs in english football. 99% of footballers who want a chance of winning a league and playing in europe have to leave their hometown clubs for the big bucks. Is that substantially different than signing up for a team in this new league? Would Neville and Carragher have left their clubs on principle if this had happened in say, 2000? Not a chance. They are making zero sacrifices to take the moral high ground right now, it's an easy play, and fully supported by the greedy networks that pay them, because they have the tv rights for the existing league. Imagine if their employer had the rights for the super league locked up? Would they be having them on with these monologues? Don't forget there are business interests in all this outrage too.
> 20Legend, re: tv timeouts, how is the crux of that any different to the wholesale selling out of the premier league to the broadcasters? They've not introduced timeouts but the PL schedule is absurd, 100% tailored to the tv market, fans be damned.
Yeah I can see your point but at least current state has some semblance of competitive integrity across it. By completely handing ownership over to a few clubs the dynamic changes even moreso than the Premier League.
I don't buy these comparisons with the change to the Premier League. Yes it was commercially driven, but fundamentally teams still have to perform on the field.
Until yesterday I would've said Gary would be welcomed through the Carrington gates like a member of a family. Today he's burnt that relationship with the club he literally grew-up at. That's a huge sacrifice.
Would like all of these clubs' records expunged from the history books. Have empty cupboards. If they don't respect the competitions that they competed in and won, then they should not be allowed to trade on the reputations and prestige of these competitions.
And paulm, stop trying to rationalise billionaires and multi-billion valued football clubs trying to further enrich themselves and that expense of others. Many of the changes UEFA has made to their competitions has been to appease these wealthy and powerful clubs so to try and keep them within the current football system.
Wow - that was an interestingly long toilet AND coffee break! My boss must be wondering if I'm still alive. Read a few articles and caught up on here. One word, actually two: SHAMELESS GREED. I totally agree with those saying that FIFA is also greedy - they often put profits first and sold a WC to Qatar (and probably more!). I mean, look at their officials' records: managers banned, arrested, corruption rife within the organisation, developing countries' money siphoned away by greedy administrators. They're not saints. But say what you will - they (alongside UEFA and other regional orgs) run national and international competitions that give every single kid in the world something to aim for. They innovate when they can/want - sometimes with better results (Still living about the Intertoto Cup and removal of the Cup Winners' Cup).
What these clubs are saying is a big F-U. After all the money they've made in prizes, merch and gates, often thanks to FIFA. I'm not surprised to see Juventus in the midst of it. Their greed and low moral status are unsurpassed in Italy, where - let's be honest - moral standards are pretty low! (I'm Italian so I can say that).
I really hope FIFA come down hard, I want to see fire and brimstone to be honest. It's about time!
we all know corruption and greed runs high in the ranks of all of the world's football organisations. noone is disputing that. like NZpower has said, FIFA/UEFA offers a global sport for all, regardless of where you come from as a player you can be seen, developed and paid a lot of money. This super league smacks of some kind of elitist view that these "rebel 12" clubs deserve to be in Europe all the time, simple response to that is that no one club deserves that. It is earned by performances and that is how it should be. The fact is that these clubs have always over spent on players etc relying on the big bucks from the champions league to fund their profits, the problems begin when the fail to make it regularly like the gunners and Man U in recent years. Suddenly the money dries up, so what do you do, create your own league that you dont have to qualify for or risk getting relegated from. Guaranteeing your income. Financially I can see why, but its just morally so wrong.
I think people might be surprised. These clubs would have predicted all these possibilities in the fallout. They will be prepared for this. They have left the ECA, they are not afraid of being kicked out of their domestic leagues, players banned from international football etc. Why? Money talks. In the end the players will still go to these teams and sacrifice it all. The money involved dwarfs current revenues. Player wages will be higher. Players will sign. Some wont, but most will. I think the announcement is a power play from these clubs, listen to what we want to happen with the champs league, or else. Its important to also remember that UEFA themselves have actively attempted to create a super league like this in the past. FIFA is wanting to expand everything for money and sold a world cup to qatar. Yes paint the club owners as the bad guys but when it comes down to it, everyone in this game is greedy,. If all these complaining players are so pure then why did they all leave their original clubs for higher salaries and european football? Dont think for a second that the new generation of players wont be keen to go after the bigger salary and the chance to play against the best teams week in week out. I see this as the equivalent to the rugby league battle in the 90s, and the world series cricket battle in the late 70s. This league may not be the end game, but its changing, and this is the first catalyst. Im not a fan, i prefer the structure we have now, but i see why this is happening, its been on the cards for years. And if it does happen, then i'd rather my team was in than out.
I’m not so convinced the clubs would have predicted the level of opposition from fans. I can only speak from a Liverpool perspective, but parts of the club have spent literally years rebuilding the trust of the community following the last regime. FSG have backed that with hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars, as well as statement after statement about how they understand the importance of the fan community and the Liverpool community more broadly. LFC’s whole identity is that they’re ‘not like the other big clubs’ (other fans can agree or disagree with that but that’s definitely how the fan base perceives itself). The clubs entire marketing campaign for the last two years has been ‘this means more’ ffs, and that’s been successful because it resonates - people really believe that.
And then to shark all over that in one fell swoop? LFC fans are enraged and I would be shocked if that trust is ever rebuilt with the owners, even if the super league plans are scrapped. Literally years of work, up in smoke overnight.
The World Cup/Euros ban is a huge factor imo. Most of Liverpool’s top players live to play for their country. I’m quite confident that Salah won’t ever play for any team where he can’t play for Egypt - that means more to him than anything else. We’ve got four or five who are either the captain or the talisman of their national teams - Mane, Keita, Robertson, Wijnaldum, Van Dyke, Henderson etc. Even Alexander-Arnold places enormous weight on playing for England despite the fact that he’s a scouser through and through and most Liverpool fans couldn’t care less about the national team. I just see the potential ban as being such a huge impediment to finding top players for the clubs in the ESL. It would turn in to the place you go when you’re still mobile but no longer good enough to play for your country, like Japan and France for former All Blacks.
Would like all of these clubs' records expunged from the history books. Have empty cupboards. If they don't respect the competitions that they competed in and won, then they should not be allowed to trade on the reputations and prestige of these competitions.
And paulm, stop trying to rationalise billionaires and multi-billion valued football clubs trying to further enrich themselves and that expense of others. Many of the changes UEFA has made to their competitions has been to appease these wealthy and powerful clubs so to try and keep them within the current football system.
Would like all of these clubs' records expunged from the history books. Have empty cupboards. If they don't respect the competitions that they competed in and won, then they should not be allowed to trade on the reputations and prestige of these competitions.
And paulm, stop trying to rationalise billionaires and multi-billion valued football clubs trying to further enrich themselves and that expense of others. Many of the changes UEFA has made to their competitions has been to appease these wealthy and powerful clubs so to try and keep them within the current football system.
Not seen any points I don't think this group of clubs will have covered. FYI, they've already announced a womens super league is in the planning. And they've already announced a massively funded system is in the works for youth development and pathways. I think we're all being a bit naive as to how this might pan out, these guys didn't take this lightly, and I don't think FIFA or UEFA is going to be successful by simply banning all the clubs and players from everything. 20legend, a good point about neville (and carragher is in the same boat) making a huge sacrifice with their comments, in that they're burning relationships with the club. I had not thought of that. And Bullion, yea cool, tell me what not to say, call me dumb, whatever you like. A person's words tell you more about themselves than who they are talking about.
I mean, my attitude to this is that it was inevitable given the incentives of modern football. I'm reminded of the American conservatives who pointed out that European football is capitalism in all its glory, as opposed to the NFL with its closed-shop model and salary caps.
The only thing that will stop this (barring the collapse of global capitalism altogether) is if it doesn't make money, for whatever reason.
whilst i agree that the 12 clubs would have done their research and projected how this will all go down, it never fails to amaze me at how short-sighted and blind some business are when they make decisions like this. How many times have we seen big corps make a call and then retract it because they didnt see the public kicking up as much of a fuss. One example off the top of my head, cadbury using palm oil as a cheaper alternative, global public outcry and the change. It's not technically the same thing as this, but it shows that corps do some due diligence but they can and do misread the publics/fans response. Personally I think the owners of these clubs have made an assumption that their hardcore fans will follow them no matter what, they've missed the boat that the fans care about the game and understand the bigger picture. Plus, football in Europe is not the elitist sport that these big wigs are trying to make it. Its always been the average joe's game and this goes against that entirely.
Not seen any points I don't think this group of clubs will have covered. FYI, they've already announced a womens super league is in the planning. And they've already announced a massively funded system is in the works for youth development and pathways. I think we're all being a bit naive as to how this might pan out, these guys didn't take this lightly, and I don't think FIFA or UEFA is going to be successful by simply banning all the clubs and players from everything. 20legend, a good point about neville (and carragher is in the same boat) making a huge sacrifice with their comments, in that they're burning relationships with the club. I had not thought of that. And Bullion, yea cool, tell me what not to say, call me dumb, whatever you like. A person's words tell you more about themselves than who they are talking about.
Of these breakaway clubs, only twice in 19 seasons have they made the final of the Women's CL - with one win.
There is no timeline on what their plans for 'solidarity' payments would be other than they will after the "initial commitment period" - whenever that will be. And you are having to put a lot of trust in teams that are doing this to further enrich themselves.
These clubs have already distorted the football landscape - automatically getting to the group stages of the UEFA Champions League by finishing 4th.
And FIFA has had precedent of banning players from breakaway leagues, such as recently in Indonesia.
I’m struggling to see what the real “problem” is with a Super League. It maybe that I’m very used to something similar with my interest in American sports but I’ve tried to look through the hysteria.
1. Although there is history of international play in football, there are many other sports where internationals are not really played. Aussie Rules, and the American mega sports outside of the Olympics and World Championships. I really think most (not all) players will choose the big salary and superior weekly competition over international football. Especially in the knowledge any impasse is unlikely to last very long.
2. I think fans will still attend the games of these big clubs. I don’t think any of them struggle for crowds now and having waiting lists fo4 season tickets.
3. The generational thing is important too. The days are long gone where the local lad you watched playing for your old school, signs for your local Top 4 1st division club and you go and watch him play for the likes of Man U every week with the warm fuzzy feeling of knowing him as kid. These days the guys you see running around at Old Trafford came from the streets of Rio, Marseilles, Torino, Sarajevo etc. younger fans are fans of the club and whoever plays for them. I think they will watch them If they are playing in the SL and bringing the likes of Barca, Juve and Real Madrid to town every second week.
4. While there are a number of clubs guaranteed eternal placement, there are still places for clubs to qualify, so there is a similar pathway ( not exactly ) for most clubs as there is now.
5. Clubs are businesses with owners making a considerable investment in them. They can’t be blamed for trying to guarantee revenues. If their product is no good, they won’t make money, so they are incredibly incentivised to make this work. We have seen recently many of our own Nix fans supporting taking a game to Auckland as it will help the club’s finances and possible survival.
6. If this goes ahead, it’s really up to UEFA etc protect the local championships, banning these clubs won’t help. I’d suggest the EPL needs these clubs more than the clubs need them in this scenario.
You make some very good points, NP. Something that you might have overlooked though, is how European football is at polar opposites to the closed, franchise-based leagues that are so successful in the USA. I don't know how much appetite for that is there. With my European background, I speak for many, when I say one of the most exciting things watching the league is (aside from your team maybe winning it - which as a Roma fan has happened once in my living memory), to see who qualifies for what, who gets relegated, who wins the league etc. These are ingrained in many a football fan's view of football and I don't know to what extent fans of larger clubs will actually like the idea of the SL.
I might be wrong, of course but that's my gut feeling. Also, you talk about owners investing capital into their businesses and wanting to reap as much profit as they can - that's really fair enough. Where, for me and many others, the buck stops, is when a business decides they are too big to play by the rules and everyone else be damned - we're going our way. That's the reason many people don't support (or only do so under the direst of circumstances) many big corporations and SL clubs should be aware of that.
It's been pretty interesting following all this. Hard to know where exactly it will end up, but I get the feeling after the first 24 hours of this that the big '12' have somewhat miscalculated. The key issue here is about protecting income streams and return on investment, and that largely because half the clubs involved are in serious debt, with some on the verge of bankruptcy (from memory, they're about 9 billion Euros in debt collectively). Their income base has shrunk because of covid, and the prospect of missing out on Champions League for some of the clubs poses grave risks in the current environment. The deal with JP Morgan is basically a loan guaranteed by as yet unsigned TV rights that apparently needs to be paid back at something like 10% interest. This means that the '12' can't really rely on just the Super League to cover their debt situation, and this is why they want to stay in their domestic leagues while at the same time getting the Super League underway as soon as possible. In that context, not being able to even secure 15 'foundation member' entrants must really fill them with concern, especially with Bayern, PSG, Dortmund, RB Leipzig, Zenit, Porto, and Sevilla all confirming that they have refused to join at this stage. I think it's also pretty clear that the clubs weren't expecting such a backlash, not just from the fans but also political structures and general public opinion. There are rumours that City and Chelsea, as somewhat reluctant partners (i.e. ones that came on board for fear of missing out rather than because they are 100% behind the idea) are looking to get out, and also think that they can get Spurs on board with that. If that happens this thing is dead before it even starts.
