Found some old photos from when I was younger a few days ago about 1995ish from memory of a friendly between Australia and South Africa anyways I noticed on the field that the South African team at this point actually had more white players on the field than it did black. Which got me thinking of all the recent times and the 2010 WC I have seen the SA team play where they have had none or just one that I know of Dean Furman who is captain apparently also. I had a look around and noticed that their have been in the past and are at present quite a few decent players whom never represented SA or just didn't really have much of a shot some include:
*Glen Salmon: Spent a decade in the Eredvisse but never got more than a few caps for Bafana
*George Koumantarakis: Spent half a decade with Basel and scored almost 50 goals but again never really got going for the NT
*Sean Dundee: Had a very long succesfull bundesliga career and choose not to represent SA at all
*Mark Gonzalez: Had a number of strong seasons in La Liga and went for Chile instead despite a good portion of his life being spent in SA
*Craig Johnston: A bit silly to put down as it was around appartaid and he only spent a few years of his life their but still some one who could have played for SA none the less.
Players of today:
*Andrew surman: Plays for newly promoted Bournemouth but isn't interested at all in playing for the NT.
*Ricardo Nunez: Playing in Poland atm not the best league but the overall SA team appears very weak atm so you would think he would have some value.
*Keaghan Jacobs: Was playing in the Scottish championship last season again a very weak league but really its not that far of the SA local comp and he had a massive season is eligible for Scotland. (Follow Livingston through my dad)
*Darren Keet: Playing in Belguim regularly but again doesn't seem to get much of a look in which appears strange.
*Sorm Roux: Choose the all whites over SA
*Declan Wynee: As above although eligibility is now in question
Any one know of any others who are eligible but appear to be heading in a different direction ? Just curious as to what the climate for a white trying to develop a football career in SA is? I get we have all these quotas for black for Cricket and Rugby which is fair enough but from a population of 5 million or 10% you would expect to see maybe 3 or 4 players regularly per squad. Very few appear to be reaching the high standards set by Hans Vonk, Mark Fish, Pierre Issa, Eric Tinkler, MAtthew Booth, Bradley Carnell, or any number of goal keepers ( I also found this interesting SA went almost a decade after appartaid without a black goal keeper it appears to be the only position where whites are represented as a portion of the population i.e 10% of the local league
Has SA football gone up in playing quality since the 2010 WC?
Actually, getting outplayed quite a bit these days
An interesting post this as it's something I've had a lot of debate on with South Africans over the years. I used to live in Cape Town and was a regular at league games around the country.
A lot of people have a perception that football in South Africa is a "black sport". It isn't. Back in the days or Apartheid, the white league flourished and crowds of over 20,000 were commonplace. A lot of famous players such as Kevin Keegan, John Byrne, Iain St. John etc all played in South Africa. Roy Hodgson also had a spell playing for Durban side, Addington.
Since the end of Apartheid, white players were very well represented in Bafana Bafana squads. Some of the country's finest players have been white. The first national side captain was Neil Tovey, these days a coach. Mark Fish is arguably the finest white player to be produced since the end of Apartheid and played in the English Premier League and Italy's Serie A for many years. There was also Hans Vonk who was a superb goalkeeper and played for Ajax (both Amsterdam and Cape Town) among other Dutch clubs. Eric Tinkler was a feisty midfielder who spent many years with Barnsley (English Premiership), Cagliari (Serie A) and Vitoria Setubal (Portuguese Liga NOS). There were also the likes of Bradley Carnell (Bundesliga) and Pierre Issa (Marseille, Larissa, Watford, Chelsea etc).
I had a conversation with an ex-Bafana Bafana defender about 3-4 years ago. His opinion was that the reason for the lack of white faces in South African footballer nowadays is due to the education system. This would make sense as many of the traditionally white schools still only play rugby, cricket, hockey etc. No sign of football. Therefore, many kids are reinforced with the stereotype that football is not a sport of them and only played by blacks and coloureds.
There are still some white South African players around. Marc Van Heerden (AmaZulu), Wayne Sandilands (Mamelodi Sundowns), Michael Morton, Keegan Ritchie & Bradley Grobler (Supersport United), Lorenzo Gordinho & Daniel Cardoso (Kaizer Chiefs) are just some of those still playing. There is also Darren Keet in Belgium, Vaughan Miller in Sweden and Ricardo Nunes in Poland. But the number is diminishing and it will take a bit of initiative to change the tide.
Freelance Football Writer
An interesting post this as it's something I've had a lot of debate on with South Africans over the years. I used to live in Cape Town and was a regular at league games around the country.
A lot of people have a perception that football in South Africa is a "black sport". It isn't. Back in the days or Apartheid, the white league flourished and crowds of over 20,000 were commonplace. A lot of famous players such as Kevin Keegan, John Byrne, Iain St. John etc all played in South Africa. Roy Hodgson also had a spell playing for Durban side, Addington.
Since the end of Apartheid, white players were very well represented in Bafana Bafana squads. Some of the country's finest players have been white. The first national side captain was Neil Tovey, these days a coach. Mark Fish is arguably the finest white player to be produced since the end of Apartheid and played in the English Premier League and Italy's Serie A for many years. There was also Hans Vonk who was a superb goalkeeper and played for Ajax (both Amsterdam and Cape Town) among other Dutch clubs. Eric Tinkler was a feisty midfielder who spent many years with Barnsley (English Premiership), Cagliari (Serie A) and Vitoria Setubal (Portuguese Liga NOS). There were also the likes of Bradley Carnell (Bundesliga) and Pierre Issa (Marseille, Larissa, Watford, Chelsea etc).
I had a conversation with an ex-Bafana Bafana defender about 3-4 years ago. His opinion was that the reason for the lack of white faces in South African footballer nowadays is due to the education system. This would make sense as many of the traditionally white schools still only play rugby, cricket, hockey etc. No sign of football. Therefore, many kids are reinforced with the stereotype that football is not a sport of them and only played by blacks and coloureds.
There are still some white South African players around. Marc Van Heerden (AmaZulu), Wayne Sandilands (Mamelodi Sundowns), Michael Morton, Keegan Ritchie & Bradley Grobler (Supersport United), Lorenzo Gordinho & Daniel Cardoso (Kaizer Chiefs) are just some of those still playing. There is also Darren Keet in Belgium, Vaughan Miller in Sweden and Ricardo Nunes in Poland. But the number is diminishing and it will take a bit of initiative to change the tide.
Also the fact that the whites make up less than 10% of the population.
If you are old and wise you were probably young and stupid
Interesting stuff. South African footballers, mostly white, have always been represented in the English league, stretching back for many years. Pre-war, Liverpool had a couple and one, Gordon Hodgson played for England(i think). Post war, Charlton had quite a few in the 40s & 50s: Eddie Firmani, Stuart Leary John Hewie and several others. Blackpool had Bill Perry who played in " the Mathews final " and was an England international and in the 60s Leeds had the coloured South African Albert Johanneson. Also just remembered Colin Viljoen who played for Bobby Robson's Ipswich side; he played for England too. Mark Fish was the last White South African of note.
"Self-defence is an art I cultivate"
I saw this thread title and thought it was about how white South African footballers are getting shorter
People like Coldplay and voted for the Nazis. You can't trust people.
Also the fact that the whites make up less than 10% of the population.
A slight misnomer. Coloureds make up less than 9% of the population but they still have a larger presence in the SAFA and league setups than whites.
Freelance Football Writer
Also the fact that the whites make up less than 10% of the population.
A slight misnomer. Coloureds make up less than 9% of the population but they still have a larger presence in the SAFA and league setups than whites.
Yes, but football is more their game than rugby.
If you are old and wise you were probably young and stupid
I saw this thread title and thought it was about how white South African footballers are getting shorter
Flat whites c.f long blacks
"At the end of the drive the lawmen arrive...
I'll take my chance because luck is on my side or something...
Her name is Rio, she don't need to understand...
Oh Rio, Rio, hear them shout across the land..."
Interesting stuff. South African footballers, mostly white, have always been represented in the English league, stretching back for many years. Pre-war, Liverpool had a couple and one, Gordon Hodgson played for England(i think). Post war, Charlton had quite a few in the 40s & 50s: Eddie Firmani, Stuart Leary John Hewie and several others. Blackpool had Bill Perry who played in " the Mathews final " and was an England international and in the 60s Leeds had the coloured South African Albert Johanneson. Also just remembered Colin Viljoen who played for Bobby Robson's Ipswich side; he played for England too. Mark Fish was the last White South African of note.
Add to that Roy Wegerle and Gary Bailey( although he was born in the UK he grew up in SA)
If you are old and wise you were probably young and stupid
Roy Wegerle was one of the most talented footballers around in his day. He was brilliant for QPR.
Proud to have attended the first 175 Consecutive "Home" Wellington Phoenix "A League" Games !!
The Ruf, The Ruf, The Ruf is on Fire!!
The Ruf, The Ruf, The Ruf is on Fire!!
If this lack of white players leads to Liam Jordan coming to us, more than happy for it to continue.
Liam is currently starring for the SA under 20 side, having scored two in two in their AFCON qualifiers. Seems to be a fixture in the side now, after being left out of the 17s to Chile( crazy selection). I am not sure he ever naturalised here though, as I recall reading that Keryns health had stopped them granting it to him at the time. Someone will know more about that, but with all the issues around exemptions, he might be lost to NZ football
99% sure he's not eligible to play for NZ
VUW AFC - Victoria University Football for life
99% sure he's not eligible to play for NZ
Not this again.....
100% he has stated that he wants to play for South Africa (has played U17 & U20 for them)
https://thejourneyfan.blogspot.co.nz/
New Zealand Football Media Association Website of the year 2015 & 2016
And over that time has now played senior competitive fixtures for Suid Afrika
Guys, you are replying to posts from four years ago.
Yes its a bit strange that some of these posts have appeared in the Active Posts section
Oi Oi Edgecumbe... lets have a clean sheet
Guys, you are replying to posts from four years ago.
Yes its a bit strange that some of these posts have appeared in the Active Posts section
There was a spam post that bumped the thread.
Guys, you are replying to posts from four years ago.
It's never too late to let someone else know that (a) they're wrong and (b) you know more than they do on a particular topic
VUW AFC - Victoria University Football for life
I was actually surprised to note that there are still some white people in the Zimbabwe cricket team
Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads
I was actually surprised to note that there are still some white people in the Zimbabwe cricket team
They're in a sad state these days unfortunately. Knocked out of the T20 World Cup qualifiers by Uganda.
Three for me, and two for them.
I was actually surprised to note that there are still some white people in the Zimbabwe cricket team
They are generally their better players. Still about 34,000 white people living in Zimbawe, which sadly after Mugabe's death has continued it's corrupt despot pathway.
Yes I know this thread has ended....but I wish end it on a positive.
This topic is very hot in South Africa, because the fans (100% true) want to see more white players competing in the PSL. They say the North remembers, but the humble South African fan will always remember their heroes. Ask any Kaizer Chiefs fan about Shane McGregor or Neil Tovey and you best be prepared to listen to stories for an hour. Take a look at a few headline in South African media about this issue:
https://iol.co.za/sport/soccer/psl/2025-06-28-watch-marc-van-heerden-discusses-the-decline-of-white-players-in-south-african-soccer/
https://iol.co.za/sport/soccer/psl/2024-04-25-where-are-the-white-players-in-the-psl-ex-bafana-star-matthew-booth-gives-his-opinion/
https://www.thesouthafrican.com/sport/soccer/psl-south-africa/ex-orlando-pirates-defender-on-why-the-psl-lacks-white-players/
https://www.thesouthafrican.com/sport/soccer/psl-south-africa/ex-pirates-player-morton-weighs-in-on-why-psl-lacks-white-players/
You will notice that the media keep asking white players in the PSL this question to gain a better insight to this issue. South Africa fans understand that the more white players we have in the PSL, the better their local teams and the national team will be. We bring a different tool set, mentality and character to a team.
Its a complex issue, but the good news is that we are seeing more players in the 1st team and reserve teams.
In a strange way, NZ players like Andre de Jong and Jeremy Brockie have helped to show white South Africans that if you good enough you will play. South African fans will continue to hold football Administrator, club bosses and coaches feet to the fire and demand to see more white South Africans play the beautiful game
This topic is very hot in South Africa, because the fans (100% true) want to see more white players competing in the PSL. They say the North remembers, but the humble South African fan will always remember their heroes. Ask any Kaizer Chiefs fan about Shane McGregor or Neil Tovey and you best be prepared to listen to stories for an hour. Take a look at a few headline in South African media about this issue:
https://iol.co.za/sport/soccer/psl/2025-06-28-watch-marc-van-heerden-discusses-the-decline-of-white-players-in-south-african-soccer/
https://iol.co.za/sport/soccer/psl/2024-04-25-where-are-the-white-players-in-the-psl-ex-bafana-star-matthew-booth-gives-his-opinion/
https://www.thesouthafrican.com/sport/soccer/psl-south-africa/ex-orlando-pirates-defender-on-why-the-psl-lacks-white-players/
https://www.thesouthafrican.com/sport/soccer/psl-south-africa/ex-pirates-player-morton-weighs-in-on-why-psl-lacks-white-players/
You will notice that the media keep asking white players in the PSL this question to gain a better insight to this issue. South Africa fans understand that the more white players we have in the PSL, the better their local teams and the national team will be. We bring a different tool set, mentality and character to a team.
Its a complex issue, but the good news is that we are seeing more players in the 1st team and reserve teams.
In a strange way, NZ players like Andre de Jong and Jeremy Brockie have helped to show white South Africans that if you good enough you will play. South African fans will continue to hold football Administrator, club bosses and coaches feet to the fire and demand to see more white South Africans play the beautiful game
I've visited SA a few times, and on my last trip I made an effort to read a few papers esp the sports section.
There are no social qualms at all about speaking about race, it's a very open topic. Almost every day a different angle.
Do black players get enough opportunities in the Proteas cricket team?
The Sports Minister in SA, says SA Rugby ain't doing enough to transistion the team away from it's white Afrikaaner history?
Topics that would be difficult to openly discuss in modern day NZ & Australia, and politely danced around - nah in SA it's all out there. A football club like the Nix currently not having any Maori or Pasika players (insert say players that speak Xhosa - the main tribe in SA) would be a hot debate there for sure. That's the legacy of apartheid and a society where your race is everything.
There are no social qualms at all about speaking about race, it's a very open topic. Almost every day a different angle.
Do black players get enough opportunities in the Proteas cricket team?
The Sports Minister in SA, says SA Rugby ain't doing enough to transistion the team away from it's white Afrikaaner history?
Topics that would be difficult to openly discuss in modern day NZ & Australia, and politely danced around - nah in SA it's all out there. A football club like the Nix currently not having any Maori or Pasika players (insert say players that speak Xhosa - the main tribe in SA) would be a hot debate there for sure. That's the legacy of apartheid and a society where your race is everything.
I remember have a healthy discussion with my mates 15 years ago about the unlimited potential of black rugby players out there. Everybody hated the idea of quota. I get it. But every South African rugby fan hated the idea of a Fijian, Tongan and Samoan footballer playing for the All Blacks. Yes, they don't understand the Aotearoa history. Now the landscape is totally different, fans complain about their favourite player not being selected (no matter the race). Quotas is not even an issue anymore.
Fans want fairness in sport, but they also understand that different player bring a different aspect to the game. It strengthens a team in a way that is difficult to quantify. Save for this weekend lol, no Springbok fan wants to go back to the team (style of play) of 20 year ago.
When it comes to the Nix fans we know the different dynamic (style of play) that a Roy Krishna or a Sarpreet Singh brings to a game. Never mind what a Brazilian or a Spaniard in the midfield brings to a game. If the Nix continue to struggle maybe fans will say to the management to bring in such players into the 1st team
Fans want fairness in sport, but they also understand that different player bring a different aspect to the game. It strengthens a team in a way that is difficult to quantify. Save for this weekend lol, no Springbok fan wants to go back to the team (style of play) of 20 year ago.
When it comes to the Nix fans we know the different dynamic (style of play) that a Roy Krishna or a Sarpreet Singh brings to a game. Never mind what a Brazilian or a Spaniard in the midfield brings to a game. If the Nix continue to struggle maybe fans will say to the management to bring in such players into the 1st team
Yes I know this thread has ended....but I wish end it on a positive.
This topic is very hot in South Africa, because the fans (100% true) want to see more white players competing in the PSL. They say the North remembers, but the humble South African fan will always remember their heroes. Ask any Kaizer Chiefs fan about Shane McGregor or Neil Tovey and you best be prepared to listen to stories for an hour. Take a look at a few headline in South African media about this issue:
https://iol.co.za/sport/soccer/psl/2025-06-28-watch-marc-van-heerden-discusses-the-decline-of-white-players-in-south-african-soccer/
https://iol.co.za/sport/soccer/psl/2024-04-25-where-are-the-white-players-in-the-psl-ex-bafana-star-matthew-booth-gives-his-opinion/
https://www.thesouthafrican.com/sport/soccer/psl-south-africa/ex-orlando-pirates-defender-on-why-the-psl-lacks-white-players/
https://www.thesouthafrican.com/sport/soccer/psl-south-africa/ex-pirates-player-morton-weighs-in-on-why-psl-lacks-white-players/
You will notice that the media keep asking white players in the PSL this question to gain a better insight to this issue. South Africa fans understand that the more white players we have in the PSL, the better their local teams and the national team will be. We bring a different tool set, mentality and character to a team.
Its a complex issue, but the good news is that we are seeing more players in the 1st team and reserve teams.
In a strange way, NZ players like Andre de Jong and Jeremy Brockie have helped to show white South Africans that if you good enough you will play. South African fans will continue to hold football Administrator, club bosses and coaches feet to the fire and demand to see more white South Africans play the beautiful game
This topic is very hot in South Africa, because the fans (100% true) want to see more white players competing in the PSL. They say the North remembers, but the humble South African fan will always remember their heroes. Ask any Kaizer Chiefs fan about Shane McGregor or Neil Tovey and you best be prepared to listen to stories for an hour. Take a look at a few headline in South African media about this issue:
https://iol.co.za/sport/soccer/psl/2025-06-28-watch-marc-van-heerden-discusses-the-decline-of-white-players-in-south-african-soccer/
https://iol.co.za/sport/soccer/psl/2024-04-25-where-are-the-white-players-in-the-psl-ex-bafana-star-matthew-booth-gives-his-opinion/
https://www.thesouthafrican.com/sport/soccer/psl-south-africa/ex-orlando-pirates-defender-on-why-the-psl-lacks-white-players/
https://www.thesouthafrican.com/sport/soccer/psl-south-africa/ex-pirates-player-morton-weighs-in-on-why-psl-lacks-white-players/
You will notice that the media keep asking white players in the PSL this question to gain a better insight to this issue. South Africa fans understand that the more white players we have in the PSL, the better their local teams and the national team will be. We bring a different tool set, mentality and character to a team.
Its a complex issue, but the good news is that we are seeing more players in the 1st team and reserve teams.
In a strange way, NZ players like Andre de Jong and Jeremy Brockie have helped to show white South Africans that if you good enough you will play. South African fans will continue to hold football Administrator, club bosses and coaches feet to the fire and demand to see more white South Africans play the beautiful game
"We bring a different tool set, mentality and character to a team" - wtf is this racist garbage.
Ok Fitzy let me explain this topic really slowly to you....The topic discussion is about "Diminishing White South African footballers in South Africa". As I discussed, South African football fans (who are majority black) are concerned about the lack of White players in the PSL (South Africa top division). I've listed articles on the subject (so I'm not talking out of my rear)
Fans remember their football heroes (black and white) and wish to see more people participate (and wish to understand the reasons for the lack of participation) because they understand the benefits different peoples philosophies bring to the game. Think Brazilians football philosophy to English philosophy, they different but when you combine them (i.e. the many Brazilian players in European teams) it makes teams stronger. South African fans know that the last time their national team won a football title ( African Nations Cup 1996) the team was diverse (Neil Tovey was captain) and this is driving the fans demand to see more white players in South African football. People like winning lol
Yes like Brazilians, like the Japanese or players from Iran they all have different tool sets, mentalities, philosophies and characters that they bring to the game. In other words Fitzy "we" (the people having a discussion about this topic) are talking about bring people together (not apart), yes together to improve a team. Now I understand, like coochiee said, speaking openly about race is very difficult for many Kiwis, unlike South Africans (due to its history).
I hope this explanation helps. Please read those articles that I've listed above and if you wish to say "sorry" its ok mate, we all make mistakes :)
Fans remember their football heroes (black and white) and wish to see more people participate (and wish to understand the reasons for the lack of participation) because they understand the benefits different peoples philosophies bring to the game. Think Brazilians football philosophy to English philosophy, they different but when you combine them (i.e. the many Brazilian players in European teams) it makes teams stronger. South African fans know that the last time their national team won a football title ( African Nations Cup 1996) the team was diverse (Neil Tovey was captain) and this is driving the fans demand to see more white players in South African football. People like winning lol
Yes like Brazilians, like the Japanese or players from Iran they all have different tool sets, mentalities, philosophies and characters that they bring to the game. In other words Fitzy "we" (the people having a discussion about this topic) are talking about bring people together (not apart), yes together to improve a team. Now I understand, like coochiee said, speaking openly about race is very difficult for many Kiwis, unlike South Africans (due to its history).
I hope this explanation helps. Please read those articles that I've listed above and if you wish to say "sorry" its ok mate, we all make mistakes :)
I think you’re talking about football culture, not race mostly there.
There’s a lot of language around race which is no longer helpful. And for example you get things like Martin Crowe saying Samoans couldn’t play test cricket because they couldn’t concentrate or the hoary old chestnut that island players were great with a white 10 and/or 9. That’s clearly racist.
But if you talk about culture and attitudes to football, football styles and the ease or difficulty of different groups to participate in a sport because of access and the way it’s administered that’s a different thing.
I know for example from a pal I met that many young black African players value doing tricks or entertaining as well as winning. 1-0 to the Arsenal might not be acceptable nor Catennacio depending on how good the counters are.
There’s a few reasons kiwis are loath to talk about race. One is plenty are racist and miss being able to call things a Maori job etc etc. Another is it can be a tricky subject to express things clearly in and it often upsets people. Lastly it doesn’t come up so much in the Spike Milligan type way, but often in specifics about individuals or communities of people within a group and less about a whole culture or groups of cultures and ethnicities. And we don’t think about things as racially as we used to in many places…
But also don’t forget Boxy calling out the press for talking about Brockie’s white-boy speed or some such…
But I get what you’re saying…
There’s a lot of language around race which is no longer helpful. And for example you get things like Martin Crowe saying Samoans couldn’t play test cricket because they couldn’t concentrate or the hoary old chestnut that island players were great with a white 10 and/or 9. That’s clearly racist.
But if you talk about culture and attitudes to football, football styles and the ease or difficulty of different groups to participate in a sport because of access and the way it’s administered that’s a different thing.
I know for example from a pal I met that many young black African players value doing tricks or entertaining as well as winning. 1-0 to the Arsenal might not be acceptable nor Catennacio depending on how good the counters are.
There’s a few reasons kiwis are loath to talk about race. One is plenty are racist and miss being able to call things a Maori job etc etc. Another is it can be a tricky subject to express things clearly in and it often upsets people. Lastly it doesn’t come up so much in the Spike Milligan type way, but often in specifics about individuals or communities of people within a group and less about a whole culture or groups of cultures and ethnicities. And we don’t think about things as racially as we used to in many places…
But also don’t forget Boxy calling out the press for talking about Brockie’s white-boy speed or some such…
But I get what you’re saying…
I think you really need to visit Sth Africa I feel to be able to properly comment on how it works there racially. It's very different to our part of the world.
For sure things that we would find offensive or skirt around, they will openly debate and tackle head on. It's just different. The legacy of Apartheid touches every fabric of life daily.
This book was once given to me by a Sth African friend, and pokes fun at all the different racial groups in the Republic.
https://burnetmedia.co.za/book/the-racists-guide-to-the-people-of-sa/
A very popular read there apparently, it would never make a bookshop in NZ.
I guess one way to cope with a complex, and often nasty history, is humour.
I mean one test to see if you were classified white, was whether a pencil in your hair would stay in (white) or fall out (black/Coloured). The sheer ridiclouous of it.
For sure things that we would find offensive or skirt around, they will openly debate and tackle head on. It's just different. The legacy of Apartheid touches every fabric of life daily.
This book was once given to me by a Sth African friend, and pokes fun at all the different racial groups in the Republic.
https://burnetmedia.co.za/book/the-racists-guide-to-the-people-of-sa/
A very popular read there apparently, it would never make a bookshop in NZ.
I guess one way to cope with a complex, and often nasty history, is humour.
I mean one test to see if you were classified white, was whether a pencil in your hair would stay in (white) or fall out (black/Coloured). The sheer ridiclouous of it.
I mean asking for the apology is a bit borderline tbh.
You say the PSL teams are better with white players. That’s a bit of a very borderline statement. You could say I like watching the PSL teams with more white players.
And to say it’s because of a particular white ‘mentality, tool set and character’ is fairly borderline too.
If you invert those statements you are saying black players lack ‘a mentality, tool set and character’ because they are black.
It’s not your best work. It’s not at all clear from what you’ve said if you believe white players are inherently superior because they’re white or not, but it seems more likely than not just looking at those statements.
For example in NZ we could talk about the Italian or Chilean heritage and passion of Libby and Marco Rojas. But it doesn’t mean the children of any Italian or Chilean person are natural footballers.
You say the PSL teams are better with white players. That’s a bit of a very borderline statement. You could say I like watching the PSL teams with more white players.
And to say it’s because of a particular white ‘mentality, tool set and character’ is fairly borderline too.
If you invert those statements you are saying black players lack ‘a mentality, tool set and character’ because they are black.
It’s not your best work. It’s not at all clear from what you’ve said if you believe white players are inherently superior because they’re white or not, but it seems more likely than not just looking at those statements.
For example in NZ we could talk about the Italian or Chilean heritage and passion of Libby and Marco Rojas. But it doesn’t mean the children of any Italian or Chilean person are natural footballers.
I never knew Martin Crowe said that. He was a bit weird (like most top cricketers lol), but I hope he was still alive for Ross Taylor to make him eat his words
Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads
I never knew Martin Crowe said that. He was a bit weird (like most top cricketers lol), but I hope he was still alive for Ross Taylor to make him eat his words
I think at the time he was talking about Murphy Su'a, the NZ/Samoan fast bowler. He was struggling for consistency over long periods and that lead to the slightly racist comment.
Queenslander 3x a year.
I never knew Martin Crowe said that. He was a bit weird (like most top cricketers lol), but I hope he was still alive for Ross Taylor to make him eat his words
He was an odd lad, but I think he may have had a role in coaching Ross at one point? Certainly they must be the top two attacking batsmen, along with BMac, to have played for NZ.
Hmm, I’ve only found a quote about Maori, but I think he said something similar about Islanders too.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/crowe-cricket-not-the-game-for-maori/FAITZUWEENP5IABGJNJ3SYAJMY/
I never knew Martin Crowe said that. He was a bit weird (like most top cricketers lol), but I hope he was still alive for Ross Taylor to make him eat his words
Um, you are aware Crowe was a mentor for Taylor, right?
Three for me, and two for them.
I never knew Martin Crowe said that. He was a bit weird (like most top cricketers lol), but I hope he was still alive for Ross Taylor to make him eat his words
Marty Crowe was Taylor's mentor. And yeah Crowe was a bit weird, but then so too could be Taylor. There's a reason Hesson took the captaincy off him.
https://www.cricket.com.au/news/3305292/emotional-taylor-recalls-mentor-crowes-words
Martinb in no way did I mention the words, " lack and or superior". If that was the case, then that would be absolutely racist. The context of using the word "better" in that sentence was to say that different people bring different strengths to a team like English football of the 80s vs today (because teams are allowed to play more foreign players). There is nothing racist in that, its a fact.
The Italian "philosophy" of how to play football is the "catenaccio" system, which prioritizes defensive solidity, tactical discipline, and organized counter-attacking.
A quick definition (from google) of the word "philosophy" is a theory or attitude that acts as a guiding principle for behaviour. A definition of attitude is a settled way of thinking or feeling about something. Thinking is a mental process (because it originates from the brain), thus the word "mentality"
Lets look at the word "toolset" - a metaphorical set of skills, knowledge, or programs used to accomplish tasks or solve problems. South American players are known worldwide for their dribbling skills which solves a lot of problems in a midfield battle. Now, are South Americans the only people who can dribble well, no, we not say that, but peoples opinion on South American players is that they have many tools in their locker compared to other players. That's a very strong opinion among many people.
What I find particularly distasteful is that a person will take "1 line", or 1 word and equate it to being racist when the entire context of my message (including the news articles) is one of inclusiveness and love (of football heroes, local and national teams). That is piss poor mate and yes, requires an apology.
The Italian "philosophy" of how to play football is the "catenaccio" system, which prioritizes defensive solidity, tactical discipline, and organized counter-attacking.
A quick definition (from google) of the word "philosophy" is a theory or attitude that acts as a guiding principle for behaviour. A definition of attitude is a settled way of thinking or feeling about something. Thinking is a mental process (because it originates from the brain), thus the word "mentality"
Lets look at the word "toolset" - a metaphorical set of skills, knowledge, or programs used to accomplish tasks or solve problems. South American players are known worldwide for their dribbling skills which solves a lot of problems in a midfield battle. Now, are South Americans the only people who can dribble well, no, we not say that, but peoples opinion on South American players is that they have many tools in their locker compared to other players. That's a very strong opinion among many people.
What I find particularly distasteful is that a person will take "1 line", or 1 word and equate it to being racist when the entire context of my message (including the news articles) is one of inclusiveness and love (of football heroes, local and national teams). That is piss poor mate and yes, requires an apology.
Martinb in no way did I mention the words, " lack and or superior". If that was the case, then that would be absolutely racist. The context of using the word "better" in that sentence was to say that different people bring different strengths to a team like English football of the 80s vs today (because teams are allowed to play more foreign players). There is nothing racist in that, its a fact.
The Italian "philosophy" of how to play football is the "catenaccio" system, which prioritizes defensive solidity, tactical discipline, and organized counter-attacking.
A quick definition (from google) of the word "philosophy" is a theory or attitude that acts as a guiding principle for behaviour. A definition of attitude is a settled way of thinking or feeling about something. Thinking is a mental process (because it originates from the brain), thus the word "mentality"
Lets look at the word "toolset" - a metaphorical set of skills, knowledge, or programs used to accomplish tasks or solve problems. South American players are known worldwide for their dribbling skills which solves a lot of problems in a midfield battle. Now, are South Americans the only people who can dribble well, no, we not say that, but peoples opinion on South American players is that they have many tools in their locker compared to other players. That's a very strong opinion among many people.
What I find particularly distasteful is that a person will take "1 line", or 1 word and equate it to being racist when the entire context of my message (including the news articles) is one of inclusiveness and love (of football heroes, local and national teams). That is piss poor mate and yes, requires an apology.
The Italian "philosophy" of how to play football is the "catenaccio" system, which prioritizes defensive solidity, tactical discipline, and organized counter-attacking.
A quick definition (from google) of the word "philosophy" is a theory or attitude that acts as a guiding principle for behaviour. A definition of attitude is a settled way of thinking or feeling about something. Thinking is a mental process (because it originates from the brain), thus the word "mentality"
Lets look at the word "toolset" - a metaphorical set of skills, knowledge, or programs used to accomplish tasks or solve problems. South American players are known worldwide for their dribbling skills which solves a lot of problems in a midfield battle. Now, are South Americans the only people who can dribble well, no, we not say that, but peoples opinion on South American players is that they have many tools in their locker compared to other players. That's a very strong opinion among many people.
What I find particularly distasteful is that a person will take "1 line", or 1 word and equate it to being racist when the entire context of my message (including the news articles) is one of inclusiveness and love (of football heroes, local and national teams). That is piss poor mate and yes, requires an apology.
You’re going to be waiting a while for your apology there Saffa. Your post was racist.