General Football Discussion

World Cup Draw Thread

161 replies · 35,226 views
over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Salmon07 wrote:
Everyone else is doing it. Just spent ten minutes doing a random draw usign FIFA's criteria and Excel random sort
�

Not sure if its kosher, and i don't care:




That would be a brutal group for us.el grapadura2009-12-03 09:54:32
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
el grapadura wrote:
Salmon07 wrote:
Everyone else is doing it. Just spent ten minutes doing a random draw usign FIFA's criteria and Excel random sort
 

Not sure if its kosher, and i don't care:




That would be a brutal group for us.
 
yep, only hope is points from Chile
 
Its all conjecture of course-can't wait for the real thing
 

Salmon swim upstream

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
So we are going to end up with a top eight team, a european team and an African team.

We cant play Mexico, USA or Hondrous??? or asian teams??
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
To all posters, Thanks for all  the info.


brettdale2009-12-03 10:09:29
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
brettdale wrote:
So we are going to end up with a top eight team, a european team and an African team.

We cant play Mexico, USA or Hondrous??? or asian teams??
 
Don't think they made it mate. Their neighbours Honduras did however.
Buffon II2009-12-03 10:13:26

Three for me, and two for them.

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I finally got my head around how it works!!!


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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
brettdale wrote:
So we are going to end up with a top eight team, a european team and an African team.We cant play Mexico, USA or Hondrous??? or asian teams??


We can't play anyone in our pot, so yes we can't get CONCACAF and AFC teams.

We'll get a top seed, a European team, and either an African or South American team.
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
el grapadura wrote:
brettdale wrote:

From Fifa's web site.South Africa cannot play the African teams from Pot 3 and Argentina and
Brazil cannot be drawn against the three remaining South American teams."How the heck does this work???"It doesnt make sense, South Africa will b in pot 1, then they will draw teams out of 2,3,4??? to Play them?


Easy. South Africa has to get one of the South American teams from pot 3, Brazil and Argentina have to get one of the African teams from pot 3.

It's standard practice that teams from the same confederations (bar UEFA, because of the sheer number of European teams in the World Cup) can't be in the same group.
 
Plus UEFA do it for the Champions League to keep compatriot clubs apart during the group phase and second round.
 
It's quite simple really. However, anyone remember the year they tried to automate it and in rehearsal the machine crapped out? I can't remember the details, but I think it was for 82? (When computing power was ZX81, so you'd have to think it could be done now.)
 
 
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I had to lol at the Stuff article - they quote from the FIFA guy stating that the draw is designed to largely keep teams from same confederations away from each other (with the obvious exception of Europe), and then proceed to suggest a scenario in which NZ is in a group with South Africa and Algeria.

:facepalm:
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I'm a bit bored (or maybe just excited), so I've ordered the teams in each of the pots by their current FIFA ranking, meaning of course that we want teams from near the bottom of the list in Pots 3 and 4.  Rankings of course mean very little at a World Cup, but it gives you an idea of the relative strengths of the nations in each pot.
 
People have been saying they want us to draw Chile - not sure why - they're the second highest ranked side in Pot 3.
 

Pot 1

South Africa (85) � A1

Brazil (1)

Spain (2)

The Netherlands (3)

Italy (4)

Germany (5)

Argentina (6)

England (7)

 

Pot 2

USA (11)

Mexico (18)

Australia (24)

Honduras (35)

Japan (40)

Korea Republic (48)

New Zealand (83)

Korea DPR (91)

 

Pot 3

Cameroon (14)

Chile (17)

C�te d�Ivoire (19)

Paraguay (21)

Uruguay (25)

Algeria (29)

Nigeria (32)

Ghana (38)

 

Pot 4

France (9)

Portugal (10)

Switzerland (13)

Greece (16)

Serbia (20)

Denmark (27)

Slovakia (33)

Slovenia (49)

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
So, the best possible draw by this method would be...
 
South Africa, New Zealand, Ghana, Slovenia.
 
And the worst would be...
 
Brazil, New Zealand, Cameroon, France.
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
liverpoolfan1 wrote:
So, the best possible draw by this method would be...
 
South Africa, New Zealand, Ghana, Slovenia.
 


This can't happen. There can't be two African nations in the same group.

And Ghana are quality anyway.

Three for me, and two for them.

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
True, was just going to edit...
 
South Africa, New Zealand, Uruguay, Slovenia
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I could honestly see us getting out of that group.

Three for me, and two for them.

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
liverpoolfan1 wrote:
People have been saying they want us to draw Chile - not sure why - they're the second highest ranked side in Pot 3.



They may be second highest ranked team in that pot, but I'd say that overall they're the weakest South American team in that pot, and I'd put at least three, maybe four, of the African sides in the pot ahead of them.
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Just out of interest, I wonder how they will do the bit of the draw that requires South Africa to get a South American team from Pot 3 and Brazil and Argentina to get an African team from Pot 3.
 
It looks like they're doing Group A in its entirety first then Group B, C etc....so I'm guessing when they get to Pot 3 for Group A, they'll draw a ball out and if it's an African team, they'll put it back and draw another until they get a South American team.
 
Does that sound feasible?  They usually have balls that come apart with the team names on pieces of paper inside, so I guess they put the piece of paper back in the ball, seal it again and put it back in the Pot.
 
But what happens if, for example, Argentina and Brazil are the last two teams out of Pot A, placing them in Groups G and H and all five of the African teams in Pot 3 have been drawn out in Groups B, C, D, E and F?  That would leave only South American teams in Pot 3 for Groups G and H which would have Brazil and Argentina in them, and therefore couldn't have another South American team in them.  What would happen then?
 
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
If I recall correctly, they have sub-pots of various kinds. They don't put the balls back. It is interesting though, as they have to ensure they can't end up with an "illegal" result.
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I can't see how that would work SiNZ, as the groups containing the European sides in Pot A need to have a "full" Pot 3 to draw from, not two sub-pots which are clearly defined by region.
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
The procedure pdf is light on details:
- team pots emptied one-by-one, beginning with pot 1
- seeded teams go into position 1 in each group
- groups filled from A through H
- positions within groups A-H to be drawn for teams from pots 2-4
 
So there are more than four pots*. Being the geek I am, I'll see if I can find more details!
 
Edit: *I mean there must be a position pot for each group too.
SiNZ2009-12-03 20:41:03
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Well that solves the anamoly I mentioned, if Pot 1 is emptied first.  They'll then know which Groups Argentina and Brazil are in and can arrange Pot 3 accordingly.
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
"The first two African teams drawn from Pot 3 will be placed into the groups with Argentina and Brazil. The first South American team drawn from Pot 3 will be placed into Group A with South Africa."
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Can you either post a link or PM me your source document please SiNZ?  Cheers, Piney

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Great, thanks
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
dumb question. don't expect an answer but

Why is Cote D'Ivoire the only nation that is allowed to muse its own language?
why not Deutschland? or Confoederatio Helvetica? or Aotearoa for that matter

No scratch the last one.. but you get my drift net?

Salmon swim upstream

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
It sounds cooler in French. Like most things.

Three for me, and two for them.

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Salmon07 wrote:
dumb question. don't expect an answer butWhy is Cote D'Ivoire the only nation that is allowed to muse its own language?why not Deutschland? or Confoederatio Helvetica? or Aotearoa for that matterNo scratch the last one.. but you get my drift net?


Think it's simply political.

C�te d'Ivoire (English pronunciation: /?ko?t di?vw?r/; French: [kot di?vwa?]), (officially the Republic of C�te d'Ivoire), is a country in West Africa. Although it is commonly known in English as the Ivory Coast, the Ivorian government officially discourages this usage, preferring the French name C�te d'Ivoire to be used in all languages. C�te d'Ivoire has an area of 322,462 km2, and borders the countries of Liberia, Guinea, Mali, Burkina Faso, and Ghana; its southern boundary is along the Gulf of Guinea. The country's population, which was 15,366,672 in 1998,[6] is estimated to be 18,373,060 in 2008

Sauceel grapadura2009-12-03 21:57:28
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Two Cents

Salmon swim upstream

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Mind blowing blog Salmon
You know we belong together...

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Oska wrote:
Mind blowing blog Salmon



Three for me, and two for them.

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Honestly which of the South American team do we want? They are all fairly strong.

Chile maybe the weakest, but the last time I remembered we played them we got wasted using a below par team. Granted that we have a much better team now and playing at a neutral venue, I hope they underestimate us.
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
AllWhitebelievr wrote:
Honestly which of the South American team do we want? They are all fairly strong.

Chile maybe the weakest, but the last time I remembered we played them we got wasted using a below par team. Granted that we have a much better team now and playing at a neutral venue, I hope they underestimate us.


didn't we beat them in an olympic warm up at Newtown park, or was it a draw?

Not sure why but I just feel 'comfortable' with Chile- like they are a known quantity

but certainly no walk in the park

Salmon swim upstream

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
a bit of discussion at our workplace yday - most of it bollocks - but great to hear football being talked about
 
 
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I know there's an argument for wanting the weakest teams from each pot, but I'd prefer to get a really strong side from the seeded teams, and then weak sides from pots 2 and 4. It gives us one 'oh wow we're playing Brazil/England/Argentina' match, but could also improve our chances of getting through the group. The risk of getting, say, South Africa as the top seed in our group is that the other teams might well points off them too, making it harder for us to go through - probably two wins needed. At least in a group like Brazil, Algeria, NZ, Slovenia, you can be pretty sure Brazil will beat everyone else, which means we just have to do better than the other two, and a win and a draw could well be enough. 
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Can't argue with that tbf.

Three for me, and two for them.

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
imaginality wrote:
I know there's an argument for wanting the weakest teams from each pot, but I'd prefer to get a really strong side from the seeded teams, and then weak sides from pots 2 and 4. It gives us one 'oh wow we're playing Brazil/England/Argentina' match, but could also improve our chances of getting through the group. The risk of getting, say, South Africa as the top seed in our group is that the other teams might well points off them too, making it harder for us to go through - probably two wins needed. At least in a group like Brazil, Algeria, NZ, Slovenia, you can be pretty sure Brazil will beat everyone else, which means we just have to do better than the other two, and a win and a draw could well be enough. 


That is probably the best post I have seen on any forum, about who you should want in your group.
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
brettdale wrote:

imaginality wrote:
I know there's an argument for wanting the weakest teams from each pot, but I'd prefer to get a really strong side from the seeded teams, and then weak sides from pots 2 and 4. It gives us one 'oh wow we're playing Brazil/England/Argentina' match, but could also improve our chances of getting through the group. The risk of getting, say, South Africa as the top seed in our group is that the other teams might well points off them too, making it harder for us to go through - probably two wins needed. At least in a group like Brazil, Algeria, NZ, Slovenia, you can be pretty sure Brazil will beat everyone else, which means we just have to do better than the other two, and a win and a draw could well be enough.�
That is probably the best post I have seen on any forum, about who you should want in your group.

If you think that Algeria and Slovenia would be easy, then you know nothing about thr standard of world football.

If you are old and wise you were probably young and stupid

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I think he meant as opposed to other sides. Obviously every team at the WC will be hard

Allegedly

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Is the draw on TV? At what time? Sorry,cant be bothered fishing through the forum to find it.

Allegedly

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
If it's on TV in NZ it would start about 5.45am. Screening live on SBS here in Oz at 3.45.
 
Can't wait!
 
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