Interesting summary from Fred Woodcock about the just completed season.
I have huge respect for Fred.....he's one football journalist who knows what he is talking about. I must admit I agree with nearly everthing he said.
On paper we had a top three side this season. A team loaded with seasoned internationals and players with loads of A-League games under their belts. But it took a late rally to just scrape in 6th out of 11 and then go down fighting in the first playoff game.
Now that the dust has settled and we have time to assess the season as a whole you would have to agree its kind of disappointing. At the most I would give it a 6 out of 10.
In reality we were in big trouble midseason. We had just recieved two back to back thrashings at home. To his credit Rickie responded and made the adjustments. He moved Ifill up front and Muscat back into the midfield. But you would have had to ask why it took so long to react. It was quite obvious to everyone that Greenie upfront by himself was not working and Muscats best position is DM. The failure to recruit wide defensive players was a major blunder.
The late run of form was a combination of getting the selections right(a big striker in Dmac and Muscat to DM) and the stellar rise of young Rojas. 10 starts yielded something like 7 assists and 2 goals. Without Rojas you wonder where the creativity would have come for all those late season goals.
I still thorougly enjoyed the season. There were memorable moments of great entertainment an emotion at the ROF. But I cannot accept that 6th out of 11 is OK.
Permalink
Permalink
I think some of the points made by Fred are wrong, that we have obviously better squads than CCM, ADL or GCU?
He is correct in saying that injuries have played a part in the campaign. Lochheads injury affected us quite a bit, meant Manny played at LB rather than at DM. I think Ricki should learn from this and make sure to have another left footed player that can play in defence.
He is correct in saying that injuries have played a part in the campaign. Lochheads injury affected us quite a bit, meant Manny played at LB rather than at DM. I think Ricki should learn from this and make sure to have another left footed player that can play in defence.
Permalink
Permalink
I'd give us a 7/10 for this season. Realistically we didn't do a whole lot worse on the table this season. We got 1 more point but with 3 more games. If the recruiting wasn't so poor (Toto, pav etc..) we would have been top 4 again.
Permalink
Permalink
Fred is basically just saying what Billy Harris has been saying for the past few weeks (and been getting caned for it).
Interested to see what the reaction will be here. Will Fred get his own banner?
Interested to see what the reaction will be here. Will Fred get his own banner?
Permalink
Permalink
His comments are pretty anti the nix, seems to be saying that we were hyping up our chances, and if I recall Ricki and co were saying 4 was the target. At a guess I'd say they would be happy to be involved in the finals but not satisfied with the finishing position. WE were hit with injuries and suspension, which simply says to em that our greater squad wasn't up to filling in....hassling us for our away form is just nasty, every team struggles away from home, the fact that all our away gmaes involve a plane flight etc makes it that much harder, away for Brisbane can mean a bus trip down the road, so it's not too taxing.
Queenslander 3x a year.
Permalink
Permalink
Fred is basically just saying what Billy Harris has been saying for the past few weeks (and been getting caned for it).
No he isn't.
Fred talking about this year. Billy talking about 4 seasons.
Fred talking some sense (apart from the bit where he reckons our squad are better than GCU, Adeliade and CCM). Billy talking a lot of ill informed sh*t.
Permalink
Permalink
Contrary to what some would have us believe, Wellington's season was not a story of guts and character; it was not a story of fighting back when all odds were against them to valiantly snatch a finals spot and end the season on a high note after an unlucky 0-1 loss at Adelaide on Friday. Character and fight may be true of the last few rounds, when a late surge saw them slip into the playoffs in the final round and produce one of their best away performances at Adelaide, but the season as a whole was undoubtedly a massive disappointment for followers of a team rightly trumpeted as top four material, but one which ended the season with a losing record (12 wins, five draws and 13 losses) and a stock standard mid-table finish. Had it not been for a playoffs system that rewards mediocrity - six of the 11 teams qualified for post-season play - Wellington's season would have ended a week earlier, and they could have had few complaints with that fate. Yes, their home form was outstanding again. But that they won 10 and drew three of 15 matches at Wellington - their only losses came to the top two teams, Brisbane and Central Coast - and still only finished sixth with a minus-two goal difference highlights their dire away form. Two wins and two draws from 15 matches in Australia - that's eight of a possible 45 points - cost them dearly and proves after four seasons in the A-League they are yet to come to grips with travel. It appears they did not set their sights high enough. In recent weeks the line was they just needed to make the playoffs and anything could happen from there. But with their terrible away record they were never going to win four straight road matches in the finals, so top four and a home playoff should have been the minimum, especially given the talent in the team. After all, 30 matches is a lot of huffing and puffing for one finals date. Pointing at other big teams who failed to make the finals and justifying their finals finish should not wash with their followers. Central Coast, Adelaide and Gold Coast finished second, third and fourth and few people would contend that they have obviously better squads, on paper, than Wellington's. Injuries to key players and the odd suspension undoubtedly played a part in the campaign. Defender Tony Lochhead and attacking weapons Paul Ifill and Leo Bertos all spent significant time on the sidelines but their absence should not be used as an excuse. In fact, Ifill's injury allowed Marco Rojas a chance he probably would not have otherwise been given, and the 19-year-old rising star was the feel-good story of the season. There was probably a World Cup hangover for some of the All Whites, as much as they would not admit it, but that, too should not be an excuse in professional football, though they will probably welcome an extended offseason after the past two winters were dominated by Confederations and World Cups. There is no doubt the constant question marks hovering over the financial situation of club owner Terry Serepisos played on the players' mind at stages in the season, but, when questioned, they always insisted their performances were never affected. So where to now? There needs to be a thorough debrief of the season and where they feel they went wrong, because they over-promised and under-delivered on their talent. They also need to quickly secure the services of Rojas, a wanted man after his dazzling performances, while striker Dylan Macallister, midfielder Nick Ward and defender Jade North, who has been linked to Sydney FC, are all off contract and worth chasing. Goalkeeper Danny Vukovic and utility Troy Hearfield have both played their last games for the Phoenix, with Vukovic off to Perth Glory and Hearfield to the Mariners. The bulk of the senior players are secure, with Andrew Durante, Ben Sigmund, Lochhead, Mark Paston, Chris Greenacre, Bertos, Vince Lia, Tim Brown, Manny Muscat and Ifill all returning next season. They need to find quality additions, though, because this season's mix were too far off the pace. The big question is: Can Serepisos afford them?
OPINION: The spin started on cue, just before the Wellington Phoenix bowed out of the A-League soccer finals series, but few people with minds of their own would have bought the predictable PR lines.
OK. I will beg to disagree with the honourable Woodie,
1. The nix were virtually out of the play-off race by November, so "in recent weeks" the goal was to make the play-offs - they achieved that based on a fantastic rare away win. Yes, too little too late but that was the reality of the situation they were in. No use in saying they should have had higher sights (we all did at the beginning of the season).
This armchair critic's view: Satisfactory (you over expectent lot would call this mediocre).
2. Squad strengths on paper - has been covered elsewhere. Yadda, yadda, yadda. Before the start of the season who would have thought that Roar would only lose one match? Or that Kosta would be the new mini-Smeltz? As Mr -offside-rule-Gray says on FIFA(!) - "it's won on that green thing out there in front of us".
This armchair critic's view: Team was not playing as a team for the first part of the season - why I don't know but clearly some disruption with new players or intra-club chemistry/machinations. From December onwards things were alot better. Satisfied but would like more consistency and cohesiveness earlier next season.
3. What would the players/club say otherwise re Terry's publicity? "Yeah- this scares the sh!t out of me - it's really going to take my concentration from the game" Of course they will try and put a united and brave media face to all of this.
This armchair critic's view: Cheapshot Fred.
"Phoenix till they lose"
Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion.
Genuine opinion: FTFFA
Permalink
Permalink
Did he really say North was worth chasing?
I'd keep Ward, and D-Mac only if he's a back-up option to a better forward (which would probably be a bit of a luxury since Greenie and Pav are already locked in for the next season and we have other gaps accross the park we need to fill).
I'd keep Ward, and D-Mac only if he's a back-up option to a better forward (which would probably be a bit of a luxury since Greenie and Pav are already locked in for the next season and we have other gaps accross the park we need to fill).
Permalink
Permalink
One man's opinion and all that. I'll have to ask my kids if "rewards mediocrity" is a phrase which is hammered into them at school, it seems to be trotted out at the drop of hat.
My big issue, again, is our way form. That has always been our achilles heel, if we make some astute signings, keep Marco and get our sh*t together away from home then we should be there or thereabouts next season.
(IRD permitting, obviously)
Jag2011-02-21 13:06:03Apparently I'm apathetic, but I couldn't care less.
"Being a Partick Thistle fan sets you apart. It means youre a free thinker. It also means your team has no money." Tim Luckhurst, The Independent, 4th December 2003
Permalink
Permalink
Isn't it amazing that whever anybody does a critique or crticsie Wellington Phoenix or Terry Serepisos, a whole torrent of abusive tsunami comes out? Are supporters of Wellinton phoenix and Terry Serepisos blinded to this extent that they can't even let any other opinion to be expressed? Blinded loyalty whilst crowds disappeared and that may determine teh real future of the club!
Permalink
Permalink
Abusive tsunami?
Are you a creative journalist as well?
"Phoenix till they lose"
Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion.
Genuine opinion: FTFFA
Permalink
Permalink
Isn't it amazing that whever anybody does a critique or crticsie Wellington Phoenix or Terry Serepisos, a whole torrent of abusive tsunami comes out?�Are supporters of Wellinton phoenix and Terry Serepisos blinded to this extent that they can't even let any other opinion to be expressed? Blinded loyalty whilst crowds disappeared and that may determine teh real future of the club!
Where is the 'abusive tsunami'? I had another look through this thread and can't find it. I found "I think some of the points made by Fred are wrong" (mind your language next time please Bullion, you'll hurt feelings) and "Fred talking some sense" (cutting reverse psychology from 2B) and obviously the worst of the lot from Junior who should have his mouth washed out after this foul torrent "OK. I will beg to disagree with the honourable Woodie." Shame on you J82, you have children. Shame.aitkenmike2011-02-21 15:50:10
Permalink
Permalink
I'm am SO so sorry!
It was the emotion of the moment that got to me. I lost my head, I did things I should not have done and I take responsibility for that, but in my defence, all throught the article Fred busted my balls, but I should not have reacted like this. I apologise.
What seems evident to me is that I was strongly provoked by Fred. Fred, after having continuously heckled me, insulted me with the truly low phrase, saying 'f*****g Wgtn b*****d'.(edit: subliminaly of course).
Junior822011-02-21 16:33:25For one like me, who has a strong sense of my Wgtn identity, I think this is the most disgusting and unjustifiable of insults.
(disclaimer: For the record I am in no way a dirty, cheating, conniving little hariy pr!ck from AC Milan)
"Phoenix till they lose"
Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion.
Genuine opinion: FTFFA
Permalink
Permalink
Isn't it amazing that whever anybody does a critique or crticsie Wellington Phoenix or Terry Serepisos, a whole torrent of abusive tsunami comes out? Are supporters of Wellinton phoenix and Terry Serepisos blinded to this extent that they can't even let any other opinion to be expressed? Blinded loyalty whilst crowds disappeared and that may determine teh real future of the club!
I can't imagine what part of a torrent of abusive tsunami would look like, much less a whole one. 
(Poking fun at hyperbole aside, the fan community runs the spectrum from bitter cynics through to blind loyalists. This means that most views are at least somewhat controversial.)
Permalink
Permalink
A torrent of abusive salami?!?
Ramming liberal dribble down your throat since 2009
This forum needs less angst and more Kate Bush threads
Permalink
Permalink
At the start of the season Perth had the best squad on paper. Goes to show how that means in the context of things.
Permalink
Permalink
Oh, wait, I get it. A bit torrent - so it's a peer-to-peer downloaded abusive tsunami!
Probably pirated, too....
Permalink
Permalink
A stolid 6/11 from me. You just can't argue with that.
+We were damn lucky Jets had worse injury problems than we did, or we'd likely have been 7/11
A hobbit at striker, by himself without an invisibility ring? Even Sir Peter Jackson wouldn't be keen. The mighty Greenacre has a strong heart but that's not enough. Compounded by our LB problems meaning much of the season we couldn't adequately pack the midfield with three choppers and let at least one of them get forward a bit and help the hobbit. OK, I've put it colourfully and a bit irreverently, but I think that's basically a fair call. Overall for season shape, tactics and striking capacity = 5/10. Defensive capability = 5.5/10, being a mix of 3.5 out of 10 till Hearfield and North found a way to function at a solid level. Then maybe 7.5+ later in the season.
We still need a good striker and a creative central midfielder with pace. Still. And the threads say we've all realised about LB. Those who have dissed Lochie for years surely found life without him a lot worse. So our recruitment for this season was only a marginal step forward. Ward was useful. MacAllister was useful but limited, and must have been very, very grateful for the assists Marco dished up. North a mixture and not a full quid for the loss of McKain. Toto a dud.
Recruitment = 5/10.
Otherwise good. Especially that Ricki continued to build a great squad and club camaraderie. You can't fault the passion and effort of the players. 10/10. We enjoyed most of the season, albeit even some of the home wins were getting on the hard to watch side. Don't give me crap for being candid about that - we had plenty of posts along the lines of "that was rubbish, but I'll take the win" about probably a good handfull of our home games. The rubbish away was mostly just a trial - we had a fair few near things, but the record stands for itself. Overall we had our periods of very attractive football and a good run at home - but we weren't a Brisbane.
Fred's right. Lot's to do to finish better than mid table. But a pretty good base to build on if we can keep Marco. And our funder.
Just one man's opinion. But pretty much I'd back Fred. We want more. We want more. But we'l (well I'll) back whatever we get.
Excepting just maybe I'll hold off on the 5th season ticket till I know Terry's paid his bills or NZFA and some other white knights have appeared coming over the horizon.
COYN.
mjp22011-02-21 17:02:08
Permalink
Permalink
You're very brave mjp2 - i feel a torrent of abusive salami coming on (not my lunch).
Hoy man! Did you just call ma pint a qee-or?
"Phoenix till they lose"
Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion.
Genuine opinion: FTFFA
Permalink
Permalink
You're very brave mjp2 - i feel a torrent of abusive salami coming on (not my lunch).
just stupid and anonymous 
mjp22011-02-21 17:13:12
Permalink
Permalink
Excepting just maybe I'll hold off on the 5th season ticket till I know Terry's paid his bills or NZFA and some other white knights have appeared coming over the horizon.
COYN
COYN
What support!
COYN
Permalink
Permalink
Excepting just maybe I'll hold off on the 5th season ticket till I know Terry's paid his bills or NZFA and some other white knights have appeared coming over the horizon.
COYN
COYN
What support!
COYN
We'll be there if the Nix is. Hopefully it is.
4 season season members. There's might be less than a thousand of us and me and the missus are two of them.
Permalink
Permalink
Excepting just maybe I'll hold off on the 5th season ticket till I know Terry's paid his bills or NZFA and some other white knights have appeared coming over the horizon. COYN
What support! COYN
Only on the basis that you can't support a team that doesn't exist and no point doing your bucks in the process.� Receivers don't tend to give anything back.�
We'll be there if the Nix is.� Hopefully it is.�
4 season season members.� There's might be�less than a thousand of us and me and the missus are two of them.
That's better.
But still the club needs season memberships to give some stability even with potential financial issues, a good reason to get memberships again.
Permalink
Permalink
Fred Woodcock knows what he is talking about, though I don't like the use of 'mediocre' everywhere. We weren't THAT bad.
Permalink
Permalink
Mediocre is echoing the halberg crap- (see abuse, tsunami torrent of).
poor at times, I thought the other sides just stepped up a grade this year. We were coming right at the end and would really be much more of a challenge with one of Ifill or Leo fit, we also needed another goal scorer. A forward who can create chances for themselves, and with a bit of pace, who can also get on the end of crosses.
Permalink
Permalink
Fred Woodcock knows what he is talking about, though I don't like the use of 'mediocre' everywhere. We weren't THAT bad.
Yep he sure does know what he's talking about, you can see the extent of his football knowledge by the way he sites Jade North as a player we should be chasing to re-sign.
Permalink
Permalink
Fred Woodcock knows what he is talking about, though I don't like the use of 'mediocre' everywhere. We weren't THAT bad.
Yep he sure does know what he's talking about, you can see the extent of his football knowledge by the way he sites Jade North as a player we should be chasing to re-sign.
Jade 'I'm going to point at that player going for the goal with the ball because he was offside and the ref didn't see' North?
Permalink
Permalink
Isn't it amazing that whever anybody does a critique or crticsie Wellington Phoenix or Terry Serepisos, a whole torrent of abusive tsunami comes out?�Are supporters of Wellinton phoenix and Terry Serepisos blinded to this extent that they can't even let any other opinion to be expressed? Blinded loyalty whilst crowds disappeared and that may determine teh real future of the club!
Warning: abusive tsunami follows in torrents:
Whatsa matter you? (hey)
Gotta no respect (hey)
Whaddaya think you do?
Why you look so sad?
It's a not so bad
We've a got 6th place
Ahh shaddupa your face!
(Sorry Fred - I don't really mean this)
"Phoenix till they lose"
Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion.
Genuine opinion: FTFFA
Permalink
Permalink
Sam, Sam, Sam, Sam
No one could accuse you of not being a creative journalist:
A poll on Rojas' decision was accompanied with a photo of a paper version of his Phoenix shirt being burnt. As of last night 53 per cent of the 107 voters had described him as a "judas", with 34 per cent opting for the more restrained option of "bad call", 11 per cent choosing "meh" and 2 per cent "glad he has gone"
What poll where?
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/4715134/Yellow-Fever-fans-livid-with-Rojas-decision
No one could accuse you of not being a creative journalist:
A poll on Rojas' decision was accompanied with a photo of a paper version of his Phoenix shirt being burnt. As of last night 53 per cent of the 107 voters had described him as a "judas", with 34 per cent opting for the more restrained option of "bad call", 11 per cent choosing "meh" and 2 per cent "glad he has gone"
What poll where?
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/4715134/Yellow-Fever-fans-livid-with-Rojas-decision
"Phoenix till they lose"
Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion.
Genuine opinion: FTFFA
Permalink
Permalink
On the home page half way down on the right side.
Permalink
Permalink
Righto. I retract all that about you Sam (was absorbed by the actual thread yesterday).
Better go and put my vote for Judas down then.
"Phoenix till they lose"
Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion.
Genuine opinion: FTFFA
Permalink
Permalink