I didn't travel to watch the Knights anywhere as near as much as I did the Kingz. The Knights wasn't as simple as that, it was a train wreck and became compelling viewing.
I also ranted and railed about how they were failing New Zealand football by having so few local players. They should provide a cautionary tale as well because a side full of second rate Australians and failed British players who were here for a holiday will never have the heart and the will to succeed for a New Zealand club.
At least with the Phoenix squad there is a large enough core of locals that the heart and desire to perform for this country rubs off on the rest of the squad and they feel part of something local, The Knights never engendered that with a shortage of local players.
Its far from ideal, but still think could be overcome. Knights recruited appallingly.
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I agree with your blog Sam (even if you don't like Subbuteo).
Junior822010-01-11 12:28:08
But I think it is a matter of timing. As the only NZ-based professional club it is looked on to provide a pathway for development of NZ players. Under the current set-up and cA-league conditions (no doubt hard-fought for) it does that.
As a 4-eyed Wellingtonion I love to see Leo, Costa, Pasty on the field plus all the other NZ players.
However if the rules change (as seems likely) and the nix/FFA are unable to negotiate through them with the AFC, then it is inevitable that either the nix folds or that it morphs into something that may not be what serves NZ football's interest re player development.
I can live with the latter, I'd be gutted with the former.
Maybe I'm unpatriotic and selfish, but I've always thought along the lines of club before country.
"Phoenix till they lose"
Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion.
Genuine opinion: FTFFA
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I would struggle to support the club under the circumstances outlined. I certainly wouldn't be travelling 8 hours to watch them play either. I'd suspect there would be a high proportion of people that currently support them that wouldn't support them if that happened. What that would mean is that people wouldn't turn up as a matter of course to every game and that would have an effect on attendance and memberships etc. Not sure that any owner, Terry included, would want to own a team that doesn't have support in its own home town. Teams have moved for less. Napier Phoenix2010-01-11 15:42:21
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nice blog, I agree. Obviously how we have it now is ideal but if it went that way I would still support.
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However if the rules change (as seems likely) and the nix/FFA are unable to negotiate through them with the AFC, then it is inevitable that either the nix folds or that it morphs into something that may not be what serves NZ football's interest re player development.
I can live with the latter, I'd be gutted with the former.
Maybe I'm unpatriotic and selfish, but I've always thought along the lines of club before country.
Country before club for me everytime, though my country is England so in this instance is less of a conflict for me.
However, if the two choices end up being a fold or "inadequate" Kiwi representation, I'd suggest that the latter is better than nothing. Having said that, I wholly understand the quandry for people like News where it would take a large element of identity out of the club. And if that quandry is a big enough factor for a reasonable proportion of the support, the latter would leave the Nix facing the former.
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Country before club for me everytime, though my country is England so in this instance is less of a conflict for me.
ALI G: So now, Beckham, lets talk about fashion? We has all seen pictures of you wearing clothes that was well embarrassing and make you proper laughing stock! Why do you wear that England football shirt?
BECKHAM: I don't think it's embarrassing, I'm very proud.
VICTORIA: Be patriotic for goodness sake.
ALI G: I is, listen, if Jamaica's playing...(to Beckham) Do you hope one day to play for America?
BECKHAM: I'm very proud to play for England, do you know what I mean. The results haven't really been very good over the last year or two, but...
BECKHAM: I don't think it's embarrassing, I'm very proud.
VICTORIA: Be patriotic for goodness sake.
ALI G: I is, listen, if Jamaica's playing...(to Beckham) Do you hope one day to play for America?
BECKHAM: I'm very proud to play for England, do you know what I mean. The results haven't really been very good over the last year or two, but...
"Phoenix till they lose"
Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion.
Genuine opinion: FTFFA
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The bit about Sporty Spice and Sc**thorpe was absolutely loltastic.
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Its far from ideal, but still think could be overcome. Knights recruited appallingly.
I seem to recall they went straight to Div 3 England at the time to get players.
The bloke's name at Knights was Anthony Lee, was it not?
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Our obssession as football fans with the size of the crowd
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Spot on again!
I like your theory (even better than the one about Brontosauruses/Brontosurae). There is a massive amount of insecurity due to the relative ranking of the sport here (and the long history of other sports - not just the egg one).
I do hope you are right about the Canty game. As much as I am parochial about Wgtn and think it has better weather than ChCh, a huge turnout there in Crusaders country would be a big boost to the game.
Ones small point: if the casual punter wants to go to the comedy festival they can still come to the RoF and see slapstick humour from some of the refs.
"Phoenix till they lose"
Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion.
Genuine opinion: FTFFA
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But crowd numbers are extremely important and we should be very concerned when the numbers are low. It's not insecure, it's called caring about the game we love.
Three for me, and two for them.
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But crowd numbers are extremely important and we should be very concerned when the numbers are low. It's not insecure, it's called caring about the game we love.
Agreee with your first point (!!!) - but in the context of sports attendances across a range of codes both here and in Oz (and the current economic conditions), we are no worse or better than others. i.e. we are holding our own in a reduced market.
IF next season our crowd numbers stay low and Oz numbers increase or other codes here increase, then I'd be worried.
Next season we will be post-WC with all the hype that has provided and hopefully post-nix being runners-up or even winners of the grand final (eat that Mr Bin Ham), business confidence will be higher hopefully and we will have a decent summer. All good factors for a good crowd turnout on a consistent basis.
"Phoenix till they lose"
Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion.
Genuine opinion: FTFFA
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What about pre-WC hype? Where has that gone? What happened to the extra 1 or 2,000 who were supposed to turn up to Phoenix games following the AWs win over Bahrain and the media hype that surrounded it?
Crowd numbers for both new A-League franchises this season have been awful, especially GCU considering the on field success they have enjoyed. How can we guarantee the same won't happen to Melbourne Heart or West Sydney?
Something needs to be done.
Crowd numbers for both new A-League franchises this season have been awful, especially GCU considering the on field success they have enjoyed. How can we guarantee the same won't happen to Melbourne Heart or West Sydney?
Something needs to be done.
Three for me, and two for them.
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But GCU crowd numbers have been their own making and NQF has a small catchment.
Junior822010-01-18 10:18:40
Post-WC for OZ if their team does well (which it usually does) would hopefully help for next season.
Can't gurantee that the new teams will struggle as well - but presumably the A-League would have considered business cases for supporter bases and the new franchises would have some marketing campaigns.
The only thing that can be done for the punters is to have attractive footy on show and loud passionate fans that pull in the casuals.
"Phoenix till they lose"
Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion.
Genuine opinion: FTFFA
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Post-WC for OZ if their team does well (which it usually does) would hopefully help for next season
Usually does? With one WC appearance since 1974, how can we say "usually does" 
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Well it has a 100% record then!
"Phoenix till they lose"
Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion.
Genuine opinion: FTFFA
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Spot on again!
I like your theory (even better than the one about Brontosauruses/Brontosurae). There is a massive amount of insecurity due to the relative ranking of the sport here (and the long history of other sports - not just the egg one).
I do hope you are right about the Canty game. As much as I am parochial about Wgtn and think it has better weather than ChCh, a huge turnout there in Crusaders country would be a big boost to the game.
Ones small point: if the casual punter wants to go to the comedy festival they can still come to the RoF and see slapstick humour from some of the refs.
Wow. That is parochial to the extreme. Respect.
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News Alert: The sky has gone a funny blue colour. Should I be alarmed - has civil defence been notified?
Please tell me that the normal grey will return soon. it's making me scared.
"Phoenix till they lose"
Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion.
Genuine opinion: FTFFA
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As soon as I got into the office it happened. Bet when I go to leave at 4.30...
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Arrrggh the brightness! Please make it go away.
"Phoenix till they lose"
Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion.
Genuine opinion: FTFFA
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I must be on drugs - my skin looks all shiny, and I'm getting this warm tingly sensation, yet I'm not in front of a heater.
14/11/09
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And you're not using natural glow either right?
"Phoenix till they lose"
Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion.
Genuine opinion: FTFFA
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Well, that too, but the pastiness also huts my eyes so I had to do something about that...
Somewhat more OT, I think that people aren't too comfortable with the league's stability and financial situation, and see greater crowd numbers as a reassurance that it's getting better.
I think there's a bit more to it than comapring to other codes or engaging in a pissing contest.
14/11/09
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Reading your new blog ML (your signficicant other is truly signficant. Oh yes and congratulations on everything in that post) - just had a thought - can you begin to comprehend your Saturdays when the bairns are at football age?
(and have you been to Karori Park when the juniors are in full swing? It's a scary sight)
Count your marbles now - you won't have many after a few junior seasons.
(and congrats again!)
"Phoenix till they lose"
Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion.
Genuine opinion: FTFFA
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Thanks J82!
Yes, Ive seen KP in full swing (which is really just APril, before it rains) and it is humming (which makes the state of the park even more of a shame).
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http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/blogs/hand-of-god/3232883/What-is-professional-anyway
Hand of God looks at the problematic distinction between amateur and professional footballers in NZ
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Great blog, helped me make some proper sense of the situation.
You know we belong together...
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Amateur players in this country should not be getting paid at all. I have always maintained this viewpoint and will till the day i die. This includes the NZFC, which is a fully amateur league, there is no such thing as Semi Pro.
Three for me, and two for them.
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Marius... are you really blogging while on your honeymoon ?
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http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/blogs/hand-of-god/3278930/Time-for-NZ-World-Cup-bid
Hand of God wants a group, 2nd round tie and quarter final in 2022.
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That boat has pretty much sailed for us, winners of both bids will be announced at the same time.
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http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/blogs/hand-of-god/3278930/Time-for-NZ-World-Cup-bid
Hand of God wants a group, 2nd round tie and quarter final in 2022.
Very political matter Sam, and most of the bidding nations had to submit some Technical Bid documentation to FIFA in December 2009. Not sure if things can change mid-stream.
Very political.......very.
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unbelievably political, no question. but that is probably our only chance. its just possible that the cards could fall in such a way, and the politics could unfold in such a direction, that it actually makes sense for Australia to involve us. But we have to be in to be in.
we should have been in the game earlier, ideally, and it would obviously be a challenge inserting an NZ aspect to the bid midstream, but there are still 12 years until that world cup, much water yet to pass under that bridge. things could change and it doesnt cost us much to position ourselves to take advantage.
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Could you fit any more metaphors and cliches in that post ML?
But agree. It's a funny old game isn't, football. It can change in an instant and it's not over until the final whistle. So it comes down to NZF taking the game to FIFA and sticking to its own game plan. Can't take a backward step otherwise we'll always be playing catch up.
"Phoenix till they lose"
Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion.
Genuine opinion: FTFFA
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unbelievably political, no question. but that is probably our only chance. its just possible that the cards could fall in such a way, and the politics could unfold in such a direction, that it actually makes sense for Australia to involve us. But we have to be in to be in.
we should have been in the game earlier, ideally, and it would obviously be a challenge inserting an NZ aspect to the bid midstream, but there are still 12 years until that world cup, much water yet to pass under that bridge. things could change and it doesnt cost us much to position ourselves to take advantage.
Marius, FIFA will make the decision on the hosts on 2 December this year. It is much, much too late for us. If we were serious about this, we should have done the groundwork in 2007 - now, this is nothing more than a fantasy.
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Im pretty sure Karori Pk could accomodate a WC game by 2022
Founder
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Im pretty sure Karori Pk could accomodate a WC game by 2022
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