Keeping the NZFC competitive - Goldstein comments

Keeping the NZFC competitive - Goldstein comments

Goldstein is quite correct in his comments in keeping the NZFC competitive.

Quotes includes:

"at least $400,00 to $500,000" to be competitive with the two Auckland franchises.
"And even that might not be enough. They are at a different level, on and off the pitch."

Goldstein said it was hard to compete when Auckland and Waitakere, with much bigger recruitment budgets, had players "who can't even get on the bench" yet could strengthen other NZFC sides.

"That's why I've talked about having a draft or a loan system. That might work.
"The NRL (National Rugby League) put in a salary cap and those kind of things to try and equalise the levels of the teams.
"I think we need to have a variety of things in place to try and make all the teams competitive such as draft, salary cap, player loans, agreed transfer fees, and not just one of those things"

Goldstein also advocates a "form of compensation" to clubs who lose "players we have developed" to NZFC rivals.

He supported the push, led by Waitakere and Auckland officials, for the NZFC to be "self-managed" by the clubs.

. . .

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4733982a18075.html

I will go one further after making those changes that he advocates above and say that a push for full professionalism is the next large but also logical stage.AllWhitebelievr2008-10-21 17:38:28

Reread was I said.

Firstly I said that after having those changes in order to make NZFC evenly competitive, then secondly take the next and bold step upwards by going professional.

Professional players would be much better when they can concentrate and have much more time devoted to the game rather than other jobs at the same time. This places extra competitiveness on the best of the NZFC players and gives them a chance to compete with AW spots in the squad from the overseas players. You can see how remarkably the A-league competition has lifted the Australian game up and placed pressure on the Oversea Socceroos players.

The basic minimum full time professionalism is hard work and not as glamourous as you may think. If you have time to play professional, the work rate and the development rate of a player increases almost 9 times better than that of an amateur. We want our players to be more experienced at an earlier age when they are young enough to spark, it's not enough for player to be either young or experienced, we want both young and experienced to lift the game up to a higher level. The gap between the players who gets extra training as part of the NZ age development squads who reach NZFC level and the others of the same age that reaches NZFC who does not get the same treatment, is telling and the gap in how tight a team plays shows deficiencies with a well drilled team with extra time to work with compared to a team that has very little time to be tight it's play. There is plenty of things to cover in an coaching perspective and after a while, an amateur setting, you never seem to have enough time, but more different in a professional set up.

You can have short-time full professional players on a medium wage and they could pick up a second job during the off-season very similar to what the cricketers are doing.

If you want our players to be good on the world stage, then develop the domestic game and go professional and the real serious growth to the game starts from there.

If you want serious football, show yourself to be serious. We can't keep on being funded by community funding it does not go far, you need commercial business money, real serious money and a decent marketing plan.

But like I said, it is a large step. Whenever professional is marketed, the whole landscape changes and you have more opportunities businesswise.

Professionalism brings a whole different ball game.

Can you just explain how you can make the league professional when teams don't have enough money to participate?

Teams don't have the money to compete because they are amateurs working off charity donations from the community. You can never grow full professional using this model. You need a Capitalist Model not a Communist Model.

Professional money comes from TV broadcasting initially as there are commercialized audience through the media. The rest of the other sponsorship like Billboards sponsorship will naturally follow.

How to set a professional soccer league in NZ (well my take on it):

1.) Offer an Oceania broadcasting business package with Sky TV and Rupert Murdoch over a either a 3 or 5 year period, provisionally and work from there.

2.) Include an internet steaming of the games through the OFC website, so it could reach the pacific islands on the net as well as the cable TV options over there.

3.) Promoted it as the top football league in OFC, to the 11 million people in Oceania. This is the real target where Sky TV and associates starting gets their profits.

4.) Each franchise works to a 2 million a year budget is an ideal start.

5.) Have franchise provisions for Pacific Island players gaining access to professional football in NZ.

6.) Get OFC players to snob the A-league and get OFC's players into ours to enrich the league quality and variety.

7.) Have $3 million dollar advertising campaign launched, with the television and film advertisements produced by Weka workshop company in the first season as a kick off. This includes covering the OFC countries.

8.) Start targeting car company like Holden (as opposed to Ford for Rugby and Hyundai for A-league.) as an league sponsor.

As for the negotiation process: . . .

I can't be bother going explaining the process many times over again so I am leaving you a recent article that may help you understand it better. It takes a vision and willingness as well as belief.

Just have a peek at what is happening at Botswana Football as a recent example (below hyperlink) where the MABC TV CEO Oscar Kubara was willing to take professional soccer step in this newspaperinterview. The article will be self-explaining of the process and what to expect when crunching out the numbers and balancing out risk and benefits. The process would be the similar in NZ around a business table.

http://www.mmegi.bw/index.php?sid=1&aid=11&dir=2008/October/Friday17

I dont know...im sure if it were so easy for that first step to happen,it would have done so.

Sky obviously have no interest in the competition,we were lucky enough to get a highlights show,and even that was a big fail. From the very start that idea falls down doesnt it?

Look there may be ways to improve the league, and I think that you make some good points,  but to suggest that each side can find $2m by selling the matches to the islands and the fanciful suggestion that we just get a major car company as a sponsor, and a $3m dollar advertising campaign produced by Weta?  What??  The simple fact is that broadcasters will not pay to screen the NZFC.  Of course it is important to attemptto get some television exposure of the league but at the moment the most likely avenue is a highlights show which will have to be paid for.  There is absolutely no way that there is anywhere near enough interest to justify professionalism, or enough quality either, or enough funding! james dean2008-10-22 04:45:40

That was a good

<cough> Colin Chin <cough>

I understand where you all coming from and I know that I am probably the minority of one on this forum. I have read enough of the mockings from backroom staff about my state of believing in soccer professionalism to know that I'm out on a limb here.

But if i was a multi-millionaire like Frank Lowy with financial backing, businesses will listen and take part because all the sudden they believe there is money to be made. But I am not like Frank Lowy, but that does not mean there no money to be made, there is. You just have to start looking around and try a few things as well as believe.

Amateurism is restrictive and is a failed model. How many times do we have to fail with the league before we place all the neccessary checks to get some long-term consistency and stability? And even then we very little room to maneuver being an amateur sport in a 4 million people country in a middle of nowhere surrounded by the professional version of the same sport in many countries. Some countries that are much more poorer per capita than ours but yet still able to put out the professional game. Ok granted that it's their number one sport and that may be easier to do in their country. But we are not that hopeless enough to be inept.

Maybe Owen Glenn is right about New Zealand was "doomed" but he still made his money here. As New Zealanders, we not as philanthropic as we should, we are too tight with our money that we don't tip the waiter or the taxi driver after a dinner or a drive. There is a lack of goodwill. We need to change this thinking about.

But you can't think small because it has backward thinking ethos, you need to look ahead and think on the possibilities. Opportunities knocks for those who dares, is the forward thinking that can scare a lot of people. The first step is always the hardest to take. You have to take a % risk at any business opportunities.

What I am advocating is a bigger market than NZ. Make use of the fact we are the leading OFC country now that Australia has left. This is a different package than the previous one.

It's not just NZ public that is targeted, but the Oceania public as well. The selling point is in Oceania population of 11 million not just NZ's 4 million. There is enough interest overall if it is expand TV coverage to the OFC countries and that having a competition allow a number of Pacific players access to professional soccer that they would never get off the ground in their respective countries.

There is an even more larger soccer public interest in the OFC countries than Australia. In some of these countries, soccer is either their number one sport or an very decent second to rugby. There is no other sports that catches their interest.

It wouldn't take much for Islands to pick up on their favourite soccer players to follow closely in the competition. They already follow NZFC a bit because of some of the pacific player's connection as well as following O-league and the CWC. It wouldn't hurt for OFC to consider advocating such an idea because they need their pacific players access to some professionalism than what they could set up.

Get the draft system etc to even up the competition first as suggested by Goldstein.

Then you all just have to believe for the next step . . .

BTW Can someone explain who Colin Chin is, because I am not that familiar with him nor do I come from Wellington. But it seems that he is also an professional soccer advocate according to you lot.AllWhitebelievr2008-10-22 15:09:30

I think everyone would be keen to see a pro league in NZ..

Load of arse Masty.

...and most of the clubs in NZ domestic football.

ha ha, this thread is a chuckle.

agree largely with the voices of reason here. you dont just decide one day you've had enough with amateur leagues, announce you're going professional and expect broadcasters and corporate NZ to be lining up to throw cash at you. Im rather more convinced by the proposition we are amateur because we have no money, rather than we have no money because we are amateur.

It would be nice to see all of your lovely ideas come into play, but as mentioned before number 1 is a problem. You say simply get a 3-5 year deal with sky - and get MR Murdoch to fork out th dosh. Why would he want to put money into a competition that isn't really showcasing football - he has to be able to see a return and at the moment, even if it was on sky how many people wiould turn their t'vs on to watch the game???? all seems a little too idealistic for mine.

Rugby is the No1 sport in this country, its on TV all weekend and has lots of sponsers and yet its NPC teams are losing money so why would you think that Football would be profitable.

not to mention the whole bleedin edifice wot is footy NZ couldnt organise a ....well add your own favourite here....

Lots of reasons. . . (but do you really want to know)

Rugby is losing money because;

1.) Over saturated coverage=Turn off.
2.) Longer year with Super 14, Tri-Nation and then NPC (wrong order as well - should be NPC, Super 14 then Tri-Nations . . . but whatever)
3.) Super 14 is bigger and faster with All Blacks playing in it. (not having any problems.)
4.) NPC without All Blacks=Turn-off
5.) NPC season crossover with a successful Warriors NRL season. (A classic swing crowd.)
6.) Last NPC season they had more crowds overall but by expanding to 14 from 12 team there is lower crowd average per game and therefore less than usual gatetaking to each union. (The same happened this season but improving, expected in an team expansion to a league.)
7.) This year the start of the NPC season collided with a major event called Olympics. (So slow start off the blocks.)
8.) NZFU are looking to cut a couple of unions as the measure.
9.) The last two seasons was the first trouble of it's kind, usually it is only for one season after expansion.
10.) People are realising what bloody boring game Rugby is.
11.) There are more intelligent people in the country the last couple of years.
12.) Too much "Man Love" with player pile ups in Rucks, Mauls and Scrums.
13.) Still feeingl the effects of not reaching the semi-finals in the RWC.

Soccer can be profitable because;

1.) local Football is not represented other than a highlight footnote.
2.) there is 11 million OFC population target.
3.) interest in Pacific players.
4.) the other completing sport is cricket in the summer.
5.) the summer holidays.
6.) playing in colourful soccer team strip has more sex appeal than playing in long cricket whites clothes.
7.) A soccer game finishes in 90 minutes and does not take all day like ODI cricket or 4 day cricket.
8.) There is only one version of soccer that the public have to consider and not three versions of cricket.
9.) You need only one person, one ball to practice soccer skills, other sports you need more than one person so there is a wider participation to emulate their "Soccer Stars" by Juniors.
10.) Soccer is easier to understand, other sports are not as simple.
11.) Soccer is the Beautiful Game. Every other sport is ugly.
12.) Soccer is the number one game in the world, Rugby will never be even close.
13.) Bigger market forces in soccer worldwide so better global networking.
14.) FIFA cleans out IRB, can chew and spit them out whenever it likes.
15.) Not completing against Netball franchises which has a shorter season.
16.) Not against NRL franchises as they have finished their season.
17.) NZ population is increasing year by year through immigrants that are not interested in Rugby, NRL, Netball or Cricket but only Soccer is their first love.
18.) More interest since NZ is starting to attend more World age groups tournaments, so more soccer news the better it is in the public conscious.
19.) There are more ex-junior players of soccer than other sports.
20.) Our Soccer Mums are better than Rugby Mums.
21.) More females junior Footballers than junior Netballers.
22.) We know that Soccer flows and Rugby blows (their whistle).
23.) Yellow Fever.
24.) It's easier to find a round ball than an oval ball.
25.) We have less thugs than Rugby.
26.) We don't use handbags in a fight.

Take your pick.

Loving number 26

Some interesting arguments by AllWhiebelievr but I am yet to be convinced.   Football may be the world's biggest game, yet according to Sky it doesn't rate in the top 3 in New Zealand for viewers so there's a small problem for a start.
Also, I thought that the Phoenix were only permitted into the A League as there was no professional league for them in NZ.   Going pro with the NZFC might upset Terry S. 

I find that surprizing since the TAB take in more money on world cups and euro than eggball cups etc
thats not even mentioning the EPL

The Football on Sky TV is not localised. Most sport fans have no personal association with the overseas clubs, only the hardcore club followers.

Whereas if you are in Wellington, then you would follow Wellington teams regardless of the sport as it represents your area. Example, most NZ
Rugby fans wouldn't follow closely the English Rugby Premiers clubs because they don't feel any association with the English clubs because they are never been to England etc. But they would follow their precious Wellington Lion team and occasionally some of the other NZ team that is doing well before any other Rugby competition. This they do before any English Rugby Club, but they occasionally may watch a former Wellington All Black playing with an English club. There are plenty of local Rugby coverage so they are satisfied.

So how many New Zealanders playing in the EPL? One or two? How many playing in the MLS? Two or three? Unless it is one of your favourite teams, you don't really bother with the others unless it is to the business end of the competition.

Right now, only the hardcore fans of their favourite teams will follow the beginning of the competitions. But they will watch the more local teams nearby. And normal sport fans will pick up the closest team they feel close to. The A-league has more attraction to the general sport public even through it plays lower standard simply because it has an local interest in the Wellington Phoenix. However there still detachment with Wellington for many general sports fans in NZ. It was even worse for NZ Knight because it had very few Auckland players in the squad and hardly anyone else from the rest of the country. WP is at least recognised with many New Zealanders in the squad and that was the selling point what is keeping alive. WP lives on good competitive attitude and on having NZ players in squad. If one of these two loses out, then you lose the crowds and fans.

But many sport fans has no real football team on Sky Tv that they associate strongly with. The NZFC is not on TV in a match coverage format, so why should they get worked up about their NZFC franchise. It is very detached association/relationship. There are other sports that they have more local association and more familiar with by the TV media.

It's hard to expect to rope them in, we don't have a presentable package to offer. I mean a highlight package once a week attempt was hardly much to rave to our workmates the next day. A highlight package has no thriller or suspense, just a bit of this and a bit of that. No flow, no love just bang bang bang like some basketball game. It seems more of a gloried news item. Like some stupid trailer for the movie but not the movie itself.

Therefore football on Sky TV ----> failed because the lack of local interest.

Have local interest ----> success.

WP games are of greater interest on Sky TV than other foreign football club. A-league game is more interesting than EPL games because of the personal relevance to the common sport fan.

Soccer World Cup final -----> huge interest from the NZ public. Why does that happen when they don't follow the local football or even the top football leagues in the world?

Because the common sport fans is interested but have no personal connection to football.

The interest is there, they just don't how to connect with it because of some badly delivered package. In their eyes, they are not going to waste their time on some silly budget league. They not idiots, they have other better packages to be more thrilled about and feel connected to.

Look at the A-league, the great response and the connection by the public is the result of a good thought out package. What was a bankrupted sport is suddenly a great commercial package with bells and whistles.

Be aware: the common sport fan is more astute than you give credit. I know plenty of people who would follow the local game if was an entertaining package. NZFC is not entertaining enough for them, they do love the game, but they don't love the competition.

We need to change the competition and make it exciting. Professionalism is exciting, amateurism is not.