NZ in Asia

NZ in Asia

http://au.fourfourtwo.com/news/120381,nz-should-be-in-asia.aspx

Thats a great article, interesting talk about the AW formations

Yeah, shows Ricki's genius in a true light. He was in control all along.

Agree it's an excellent interview.

Regarding Asia, this quote sums it up for me: "If you're not prepared to invest in it then you are probably not going to reap those rewards. And if we don't get those rewards, we'll always struggle to move forward."

Sure their are higher travel costs, but we need to invest in that as their will be greater income as well, and it means being able to progress as a footballing nation as opposed to 2010 potentially being a one off and then returning to being a backwater.

Actually, maybe travel costs would be lower, as if Ricki points out players are flying from the UK...
SC032010-01-14 18:31:33

What did Australia do to 'prove it's case' ?

Hi, we've got 30 million people and huge TV dollars, please let us in.

Prove it's case my arse.

They must have done somrthing right- they got in.
NZ will never improve unless they join Asia.
Australia realised this.

DS, I don't really understand your gripe either. Ricki stating a personal opinion that NZ would be better off shifting from Oceania to Asia is hardly an earth shattering surprise, nor is it in any way an official NZF backed proposal. So where's the harm? Most NZers with any interest in football realise we would be far better off in Asia in the long run.

I have plenty of respect for Asia, that's why I hope we join it!

The joining Asia story has been widely debated. Must say I am in favour except for 2 points. If NZ was in Asia then the AW's would have heaps more games. WC qualifiers and Asian cup games. Which is great for the AW's. However this would not necessarily be good for the Nix.

How about qualifying via Oceania and then CONCACAF and making good fist of it at the finals. Also having at least a dozen players in top European leagues. Some of which are the better player there, eg Cahill, Swartzer, Viduka, Kewell, Neill (maybe). Add to that they run a decent professional league in the A-League and a decent womens league in the W-League. Then add in a population of 30 mill and huge TV dollars and I'm convinced. NZ currently has 1 pro team playing is Aussie, the NZFC, 1 premier League player, 3 mil people and very little TV coverage.

There are smaller Asian nations with worse leagues though. I would love NZ to join Asia but the only sustainable way would be splitting it east/west, other wise the other OFC nations would fall apart.

maybe we should join South America instead?    "Pacific" champions join the existing South American nations for the Copa America and World Cup qualifiers...Island nations are no worse off, and we (er...assuming we continue to win everything) get to play Argentina, Brazil etc.

Nah, we should join UEFA. Base ourselves in Sheffield or something, play all our qualifiers from there, and we'll have a chance to play in a huge international tournament every two years.

True but they are actually Asia nations. We want/need in so need a reason to be let in. It's not like Cambodia had to ask to join Asia.

Ummmm... who exactly is he asking DS?... He was interviewed and responded to questions asked of him. If he didn't offer his thoughts and opinions he'd be accused of lacking vision or misunderstanding the situation NZ football is in. The AFC was brought up by the interviewer, not RH.

Give him a break he's not trying to spoil your party, merely answering the questions a journo has asked.

Respect should be earned, not given.
SurgeQld2010-01-15 14:30:05

f**king here hear.

Move to Africa and we can play in the AFNC, tempting providing we don't take buses.

I'll respond to this one (Thanks to the poster who called me a good contributor as well). Answers in red.


diego's son2010-01-16 07:02:09

Not the dumbest idea in the world... What about joining CONCACAF? They need some extra teams there to spice it up and give them extra competition.

Flying NZ to USA (west coast especially) may be comparable to (say) Sydney to Lebanon for an AFC match. Not sure but someone could look at the distance!

Not the dumbest idea I've ever read from Andrew D (his name spelt backwards) above.


diego's son2010-01-16 08:05:36

Ex-NZ CEO Greame Seatter was on here a few months ago. This is what he said if you look it up:

Interesting debate.

Two things need to happen for a country to move to another Confederation. They need an invitation, and their current Confederation needs to agree to them leaving. Both happened re Australia (obviously) and neither would happen for New Zealand. So it won't happen.

Much of Asia hates Australia being in their Confederation - imagine how West Asia (the Middle East) feels about it, being on the verge of not having a representative at the World Cup for the first time since 1974? They did not want Australia to join AFC (with the exception of Bin Hammam), and they will like Australia being in the AFC even less right now. AFC would not want another "non-Asian" nation to join, especially if we beat AFC's No 5 team! AFC has 4.5 spots in the World Cup - imagine how they will feel if what they consider to be "Asian nations" take only 3 of those spots. Invite New Zealand to join - never!

OFC will not agree to New Zealand leaving as they will not really be left with a Confederation.

If New Zealand did somehow manage to join AFC we could not afford to take part in AFC World Cup qualifying competitions in under age/women due to the cost of travel - ask Australia. And we could not compete in the AFC Champions League as we do not have a professional domestic competition.

If OFC became part of AFC - imagine if Tahiti drew Jordan in a game? French Polynesia covers a greater area than Europe! Would FIFA have a Confederation that covered half the globe?

Finally - in 2006/07 we tried to join the AFC group stage of World Cup qulaification. We put a proposal to AFC. After some discussions it was rejected. AFC did not want to lose another spot for an AFC team in their group stage. And they - especially West Asia - hate traveling to Australia/New Zealand. Also I think they fancied their chances more in a two-off situation after their team had had great games for preparation, and we hd been playing the Islands.

Let's shove that right back on them!

You could see some re-alignment with players, e.g. with the AFC's 3+1 foreigner rule you might get Bertos, Lochhead or Sigmund etc getting a crack at playing in Korea or China etc. You'd then need to replace these with other NZ or Australian players but it would spread the load regarding the All Whites.

Regarding Seatter's post, I think he lacks vision, and at no point does he offer an alternative. Nobody has said it would be easy, but sometimes you need to take on challenges in order to progress. At least we should be trying.

You mentioned 3 players to Asia. Of those Lockhesd would have as much chance as you have of winning 1st division lotto next week?

Because he is so hopelessly outclassed in the A-League he also wouldn't make it in the CSL?

I know I've weighed in before in another thread agreeing with the East+ Oceania-West Asia split, with the stumbling block being how the 5 spots are divided.

wolfman2010-02-02 14:11:11

I reckon you've got some good thoughts in there. It would solve many problems, and if the island nations were to qualify for the final round maybe there should be some small financial reward for qualifying out of their zone.

wolfman2010-02-02 14:12:37

Australia is use to playing good quality Asain teams now so to go back and play week Oceania teams in general would be a let down.

also when playing away, Australia uses its international business arm to promote trade with these countries(see www.austrade.gov.au for more information)

thanks,
DS

Obviously we are both coming at this with our respective countrys' interests first, and are probably not going to convince each other to change our minds. wolfman2010-02-07 04:01:59

Not competing here buddy, but to ask Australia (or any other AFC nation) to knock back games (especially) qualification games is asking for trouble. The local Football Association would crack it due to lost revenue (gate takings, TV money and sponsorship etc) and also stuff like player payment schemes/agreements would change as you're changing the 'performance' structure of their duty.

I was thinking about this today, Australia snuck out of Oceania back in 2005, and now that NZ has woken up to what was going on (Auckland was asleep for you guys when all this was going on), you're trying to play catch up.

For New Zealand to improve its situation, it has to convince Oceania Football Confederation, Asian Football Confederation AND FIFA of the job/desire of New Zealand Football's true desires.

Australia now is safe in the AFC, so besides keeping the NZ team in the A-League, it has little interest in developing NZ Football in any other way.

I suppose left-field ides like NZ trying to join CONCACAF (North America) or COMNERBOL (South America) are not as far fetched as you think. But to go to FIFA, the AFC or others and say 'Australia should play less competitive games' and so on, you'd be hounded out of the building.

The pressure is really on New Zealand to meet with regional and world football powers to work out it's desired path (should it have a plan to leave Oceania in the first place - I remember seeing a little while ago that NZF had no plans to do so).

Australia escaped when it had the chance. Not trying to compete with you, or look at knocking New Zealand's interests, but Australia pulled a smart move at the right time and now New Zealand is trying to catch up. Like I said earlier, the Knights debacle set New Zealand soccer back 5 to 10 years in ways.

Really not Australia's problem how New Zealand tries to get more competitive games, but to ask them to play less competitive games, as part of a global restructure to get NZ more games, is simply taking the p!ss.

Hope that helps things (??)

DS

FOOTNOTE: I get your original idea about 'regionalising' the preliminary AFC rounds (which happens in some form already) but to reward West Asia (who you guys knocked out their rep) is crap. The best teams from the CONFEDERATION have to make it to the final rounds. You want your best teams from your confederation making it to the World Cup. Imagine splitting Europe into 'East' and 'West' zones. It wouldn't be good. Europe's main strength is inthe west (where most of the wealthier leagues are too) so the proposal to split the AFC into 3 zones with Oceania included wouldn't work.
diego's son2010-02-07 05:05:38

The idea of joining CONCACAF (north america) is an interesting one.  It wouldn't help to solve our issue with the Phoenix in the A-League, and travel would be an absolute bitch, but it would be so much better than playing the OFC island teams.  And don't they have 3.5 spots?  USA and Mexico usually guarantee those top ones, but we could potentially do well to fend off Costa Rica/Honduras/Canada etc for one of the others, having more of a chance considering we'd be getting home games.

I certainly don't think we're better than the likes of Costa Rica, but with home advantage for some games it's entirely possible.

But CONCACAF should only be tried if we fail at moving into Asia.  Not that it looks like any attempt to do that will be made in the near future.

CONCACAF? And people have been using the excuse of travel costs to say that the AFC is not viable! 

CONCACAF is currently a weak Confederation for its 3.5 World Cup spots, if Oceania was swallowed up by CONCACAF (or if NZ chose to go it alone, it would dissolve Oceania in any event, ring FIFA for more details) it would make those 3.5 spots more 'justified'.

If Oceania joined CONCACAF may be a knock-on benefit to Asia, in the fact that NZ's national team is playing non-Asian nations to qualify for major events (including the World Cup), so the Asians may see it as sort of 'exotic' to have the Phoenix included in an AFC-sanctioned league.

There's no danger in Phoenix trained players knocking an Asian team from the World Cup if Oceania-registered teams had to go through CONCACAF to get to major football events.
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Think about it football wise, travel costs to LA would be cheaper than going to Beirut, and less time as well.
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One thing to travel to LA, completely another to travel to Trinidad and Tobago, Jamaica, or Belize.

Put simply, the Caribbean is pretty much the most difficult place to get to from NZ. And the great majority of the CONCACAF nations are in that area.

Trying to think of a solution here. Many AFC locations, such as Tashkent (in Uzbekistan) aren't easy to get to either. Have to think to get a solution.
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