so, craig stanaway reckons the Phoenix should make Paul Ifill some sort of franchise player (Eg, Kirk penney and Steve Price) the public can identify with because ``no-one in Auckland cares about the Phoenix''
Well, newsflash Stanaway - no-one in Wellington/outside of Auckland cares about the Breakers!!! And there's only interest in the Warriors if they are winning.
Just because the Auckland-dominated media jams Breakers and Warriors down our throats doesn't mean we all care about it.
Why should the Phoenix care whether Aucklanders are following the Nix or not?? It's not like they put bums on seats.
Stanaway, if you were doing your job as a football reporter, you would care about the Phoenix and cover them on merit as NZ's only professional team, not just say ``nobody cares'' and leave it up to the phoenix to change that
Well, newsflash Stanaway - no-one in Wellington/outside of Auckland cares about the Breakers!!! And there's only interest in the Warriors if they are winning.
Just because the Auckland-dominated media jams Breakers and Warriors down our throats doesn't mean we all care about it.
Why should the Phoenix care whether Aucklanders are following the Nix or not?? It's not like they put bums on seats.
Stanaway, if you were doing your job as a football reporter, you would care about the Phoenix and cover them on merit as NZ's only professional team, not just say ``nobody cares'' and leave it up to the phoenix to change that
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Complete and utter tool, but everyone knows that anyway.
His crowning glory was after the Tua/Cameron fight when he said to Cameron...."The COUNTRY wants me to ask you.....are you OK?"
Don't ever claim to speak on my behalf you complete prat.
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I agree with him though, have been saying it for a while now. The Nix need a face through which they can grow a following, like the Warriors have in Price and the Breakers have in Penny
www.kiwifromthecouch.blogspot.com
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It would be good if radio sport had a footy show like the league one they do with Price, i think even Penny has one?
PS I know they have the local footy show with miles and yates, maby get a nix player to tag along each week?
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It would be good if radio sport had a footy show like the league one they do with Price, i think even Penny has one?
PS I know they have the local footy show with miles and yates, maby get a nix player to tag along each week?
300% agree. I guess we have the Phoenix hour but would be good if we had something nationally
www.kiwifromthecouch.blogspot.com
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yea sounds like a great idea. price did wonders for the warriors and the image the club wanted to give to the public. sounds like the next step for the phoenix
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It would be good if radio sport had a footy show like the league one they do with Price, i think even Penny has one?
They didnt even manage to have have radio coverage of tonights game, they were playing a replay of an interview with Peter Montgomery.
PS I know they have the local footy show with miles and yates, maby get a nix player to tag along each week?
Imagine if that happened when a Warriors game was on.
A dog with a bone :)
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How are they supposed to have radio coverage of it? If no Sydney radio covers it. Think before you speak please
www.kiwifromthecouch.blogspot.com
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It would be good if radio sport had a footy show like the league one they do with Price, i think even Penny has one?
They didnt even manage to have have radio coverage of tonights game, they were playing a replay of an interview with Peter Montgomery.
PS I know they have the local footy show with miles and yates, maby get a nix player to tag along each week?
Imagine if that happened when a Warriors game was on.
Of course they would have a replay of an interview with Peter Montgomery on instead of a live Warriors game.
It is pretty sad not to have live radio coverage of the game but like Bopman says do your f**king research.
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If the game wasn't being covered by radio in aussie, then they would have a replay of an interview because the don't have coverage! Its unrealistic to expect radio commentators to be sent to aussie every second week (very few teams in aussie get live radio commentary - Mariners only maybe?) when there would be almost no profit in it for them, and a sh*t load of expense.
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Well, newsflash Stanaway - no-one in Wellington/outside of Auckland cares about the Breakers!!! And there's only interest in the Warriors if they are winning.
Just because the Auckland-dominated media jams Breakers and Warriors down our throats doesn't mean we all care about it.
Why should the Phoenix care whether Aucklanders are following the Nix or not?? It's not like they put bums on seats.
Stanaway, if you were doing your job as a football reporter, you would care about the Phoenix and cover them on merit as NZ's only professional team, not just say ``nobody cares'' and leave it up to the phoenix to change that[/QUOTE]
I just resist posting to clarify a couple of things...
Firstly. I couldn't agree more that virtually no-one outside of Auckland cares about the Breakers and there's only interest in the Warriors when they're winning. And that's the point. There's not much interest in the Phoenix outside its hardcore base when the team has won 1 in 8 matches. The Breakers and the Phoenix are essentially peas in a pod. But the Breakers have the league's MVP in Penney - who also happens to be a New Zealander. So that creates some sort of interest even when he's injured. He's great talent on TV and Radio and a marketer's dream. The Phoenix had that with Smeltz when the results weren't good but he's not there anymore so you need another player to hang your hat on. Therefore, when there's a drop off in performance you need a marque player like a Price or a Penney to maintain your place in a crowded media market.
Regarding what I should or shouldn't do as a "football reporter"
When was the last time I covered the Phoenix?
I don't cover the Phoenix at all. I could never do a good job covering them by living in Auckland. The job of a reporter is to report good and bad. A reporter is not doing their job if they're just previewing and reviewing. Unfortunately hardcore supporters get extremely upset when the bad's reported and take it personally.... then slag the messenger rather than listening to the message. News reporting is not a PR machine for a sport. It's about calling it how it is, warts and all. If the Phoenix were in Auckland, I dare say their performances would be scrutinised a lot more by national media than they are right now. They are underachieving just like the Warriors. Professional sport is all about winning. 6 consecutive draws - bad.... 6nil win good.... 3-1 loss a week after winning 6nil (regardless of the opposition)...... well I think you know.
I can however assure you we are doing what you are demanding I do... and that's covering the Phoenix on merit. And whether you like it or not, at the moment they don't merit much more than what they're getting. Just by existing doesn't guarrentee coverage. You only have to look at the Blacksox softball team to realise that.
And before you start climbing into me suggesting that we always do the Warriors, I can absolutely assure you we did not cover the Warriors for the last six rounds of the NRL. Why? because there was no news value. They were out of the playoffs and there was probably a more deserving team deserving the coverage on the news each night. They were certainly generating it before then because here was a side that many had been tipping to be grandfinalists imploding before our eyes. Why was that happening? That's the reporter's job to find out. Not just preview their next game.
There is no one who has championed football more than me at TVNZ over the past five years. A couple of years ago you didn't even get good Premier League coverage on the news. So before you start taking aim.... think. Is it the roll of a television sports news programme to provide a highlights reel of goals and feel good previews? Or is it to report the facts and the issues that matter most to New Zealanders?
[QUOTE]
Complete and utter tool, but everyone knows that anyway.
His crowning glory was after the Tua/Cameron fight when he said to Cameron...."The COUNTRY wants me to ask you.....are you OK?"
Don't ever claim to speak on my behalf you complete prat.
Hey buddy... if you've got a constructive criticism you want to make... direct it to me directly craig.stanaway@tvnz.co.nz rather than gutlessly and anonymously call me names on a message board. But I suppose that's the point isn't it? You just wanted to take a cheap shot. I'm sure there are far better places to do it than on a forum that's supposed to generate intelligent discussion between adults.
Two things:
You were clearly watching, so what did you want to know from Shane Cameron two days after taking the biggest beating of his life. What he eat for breakfast? Come on??!!
Because everyone else I was talking to was saying to me... "Do you know if he's okay?"
So you must be one strange person if that wasn't the first thing you wanted to hear from Shane Cameron....
Glad still to see you're watching TV One for your news source.... keep it up
And finally, you owe me a drink as a way of an apology for your post, I am in Wellington next week for the Bahrain game so email me ;-)
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I tend to broadly agree with you, Craig. Good on you for fronting up in here to explain your position. Personally, I always watch TV3 for my sports news as I believe their football coverage is far, far superior to TV One.
Oh, and "Is it the roll of a television sports news programme to provide a highlights reel of goals...."? I think you meant 'role'! 
Apparently I'm apathetic, but I couldn't care less.
"Being a Partick Thistle fan sets you apart. It means youre a free thinker. It also means your team has no money." Tim Luckhurst, The Independent, 4th December 2003
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Well done Craig, it isn't to many of the journos who front up on here when they have been slagged off so full credit to ya man!
I agree with basically everything you say, people round here can tend to be a bit precious
www.kiwifromthecouch.blogspot.com
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Good to see you on here Craig, but it wont change my view that TVNZ's coverage of football for as long as I can remember has been dire. Bopman is likely to be one of your few allies on this forum. I like him but he tends, in my view, to be conditioned to appalling football coverage and therefore gets a bit excited when we get thrown the odd bone.
And TVNZ's lack of football coverage has not just been about "newsworthiness". There is a lot more to it than that. How do you explain not previewing the Bahrain game in Manama? TV3 fell over on the Bahrain game as well, but they have definitely made more of an effort over the past few years - and hence I watch their sports news also.
I'm sure you guys will step up come next week - but I will reserve my judgement on any improvement in your efforts for some time yet.
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There is no one who has championed football more than me at TVNZ over the past five years. A couple of years ago you didn't even get good Premier League coverage on the news. So before you start taking aim.... think. Is it the roll of a television sports news programme to provide a highlights reel of goals and feel good previews? Or is it to report the facts and the issues that matter most to New Zealanders?
Both I would have thought. I think that the EPL coverage is essentially a bunch of goals.
So as a self-professed fan and extremely un-NZer the sports issues that matter most to me are the Phoenix and the AWs (thanks to that internet thingy that I'm using now i can get my fill of EPL etc).
Sorry if I happen to be in a minority re sporting interest but I'll start watching TVNZ when it lifts its game to the level of TV3 ... and that isn't particularly high either.
(if you can't do football then at least get Caroline Ryan!)
"Phoenix till they lose"
Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion.
Genuine opinion: FTFFA
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And TVNZ's lack of football coverage has not just been about "newsworthiness". There is a lot more to it than that. How do you explain not previewing the Bahrain game in Manama? TV3 fell over on the Bahrain game as well, but they have definitely made more of an effort over the past few years - and hence I watch their sports news also.
I'm sure you guys will step up come next week - but I will reserve my judgement on any improvement in your efforts for some time yet.
The explaination regarding the game in Manama is easy.
Plan One:
Firstly, TVNZ recognised the importance of this fixture months ago. In fact, I went and talked to Michael Glading a couple of months before the game about where we were heading. I had been told as early as June I was going. And then TVNZ announces it's selling the rights to the Commonwealth Games to offset a potiential $5 million dollar loss. This stunned everyone inside and outside the industry. If a sporting institution was being sold off then nothing was sacred.
The Sunday programme was set to go to Manama but the All Whites would not grant them the access they were looking for. They reluctantly pulled out of doing their story. Had access been granted, they would have also covered the buildup for ONE NEWS. It looked like I would go by myself and get a cameraman in the Middle East but the cost was looking at a minimum US$1000 a day. And that did not include satellite feeds. Martin Tasker did something on the Tour De France in Paris recently. The budget was around US$500 but fees, satellites, camera hire etc etc meant that one story cost around US$3000. A massive budget blowout.
In an attempt to cut costs, we even got free flights from Thai Airways.... we probably could have lived with a cost of around NZ$700 but it was still deemed too expensive to go when the final sums were done. Then the budgets were completely blown by Sir Howard Morrison dying and the Samoan Tsunami.
Plan Two:
Despite our best efforts, and we genuinely have the best foreign desk in New Zealand, we could not source any vision of the All Whites training before the actual game and boy did we try. We contacted SNTV, ATP and Reuters - you name it and they had no one there. Every effort behind the scenes went into getting something up. Not one cameraman was around shooting it. There would have been a fee from the cameraman and then a fee from the satellite but it was something TVNZ was prepared to wear.
I have no doubt TVNZ would have spent the money had the second leg been in Bahrain but in the end they made a commerical decision which, under the tough economic times we live in, is totally understandable. If you hold any good job at the moment, you know how tight conditions are in working environments and TVNZ does not have endless supplies of money. It was never an anti-football decision. Everyone should have realised that things were tight at TVNZ when they sold the Commonwealth Games rights. The fact they only turned over $2million profit this year and still have to provide the government a dividend proves this to be so....
Regarding our coverage being dire.... subjective opinion... I respect your right to have any opinion you like. If you don't like it don't tune in. That's your choice in a deregulated market. By all means watch TV3... I'm not going to even attempt to convince you otherwise.
I just know when there's genuine news, which is not preview and review stuff, we do it better.
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Value TVNZ places on it's CEO - $830,000 a year
Value TVNZ places on covering NZs first shot in donkeys at the World's Biggest Sports Event = $700
Founder
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The reasons for not having footage may be fair enough. Regardless of that, I think it would have been worthwhile (for both channels) to at least have some mention of the game (one of the biggest sporting matches for New Zealand this decade). IE: any squad / injury news - even if everything was fine. Could have got Herbert or Nelson on the phone. Could have been open and mentioned that you were' unable' to get footage. Wouldn't have been great coverage, but better than absolutely nothing hours before such a big New Zealand sporting match. As Mediawatch pointed out, you had Handball on. Surely ANYTHING on the All Whites would have been better than that. And while commercial decisions are obviously a priority - media still has to think of the 'public interest' to some extent. Probably partly the Governments fault for forcing you guys to pay a dividend in these difficult times.
Oh well, that's in the past now anyway. Not sure about tv 1, but I saw some media calling Phoenix losing 3-1 "embarrassing". 3-1 isn't really an embarrassing result for any team in the world. I don't have a problem with media being negative about the Phoenix re: not getting good results etc... (unlike some who want you to be their cheerleaders!), but the media in New Zealand (not saying you) can get a bit silly and show their lack of understanding about Football.
Look forward to seeing a lot of good coverage in the next couple of weeks getting ready for the 14th!
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As Marius said I tend to be a TV1 apologist, I think you make those points well Craig. You have put the facts in front of us and we can make up our minds on them.
I understand the logic, the point about Sunday is interesting. Davis had a go at the AWs during the week in Manama about lack of access, obviously Sunday felt the same and canned the trip before it turned out to be a disaster.
Feverish, the point you make about the CEO is fair but I don't think it is a comparison to make. That is a governance issue and this is a news desk thing.
www.kiwifromthecouch.blogspot.com
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mate what he wrote is the biggest load of drivel I have heard in a long time.
Founder
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Value TVNZ places on it's CEO - $830,000 a year
Value TVNZ places on covering NZs first shot in donkeys at the World's Biggest Sports Event = $700
Summed up perfectly.
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Bullsh*t, all of you guys need to take a step back and look at f**king realities. The chips on peoples shoulders round here recently are denting this places credibility, people come on here and offer opposing points of view and you attack them. At least come up with credible counter arguments instead of having a go at the guy.
Marius is the only one of you lot at the moment making any kind of rational sense
www.kiwifromthecouch.blogspot.com
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Credibility ? Here ?
You sure you meant to sign on to the Fever ?
You sure you meant to sign on to the Fever ?
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Yellow Fever could be New Zealands most effective lobby group for football yet when a representative of one of the organisations people on here whinge most about comes on here and puts forward an argument you dismiss it. Actually address his points (and comparing what the CEO earns and what they are willing to spend is nonsense) and perhaps the media will take football more seriously.
It seems to me from the media I watch, read, listen to that they respect us and what we have done for the Phoenix. I think next week is an even bigger opportunity to show New Zealanders something different but if people can't get past the chips they have on their shoulder, because someone when they were at school told them soccer was for poofs and real men play rugby, then any credibility we have and any allies we have we can lose just as quickly.
Rant over
www.kiwifromthecouch.blogspot.com
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offerd free flights by the good folk at Thai and they still didn't give a sht
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Bopman, surely you don't buy that explanation? WHile it may be arguable that the costs of travelling there outweighed the news value (which is hard to fathom considering that the stadium sold out so quickly for the return leg and the media have been going crazy for this story) that doesn't adress the main issue which is the fact that there was ZERO coverage of the story in NZ. We're not journalists but surely there are a million angles that could be run without needing someone on the ground, the print media managed that.
At the same time the major football story of the week was about the fact that England didn't have live coverage of their dead rubber against the Ukraine on telly, only on the internet. Now tell me how that is any kind of analysis or all the other stuff that Craig mentioned on the previous page?
Normo's coming home
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JD, that wasn't actually what I was saying. I agree that TV coverage of it was crap and they seriously dropped the ball.
What pissed me off was instead of making a reasoned response like you have made just there for Craig to respond to people made dumb emotive comments that aren't going to do anyone any good.
www.kiwifromthecouch.blogspot.com
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That is a very clever, descriptive comment there Feverish.
"Phoenix till they lose"
Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion.
Genuine opinion: FTFFA
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Bopman, surely you don't buy that explanation?
the main issue which is the fact that there was ZERO coverage of the story in NZ. We're not journalists but surely there are a million angles that could be run without needing someone on the ground, the print media managed that.
[/QUOTE]
Your post shows you up as a complete ignoramous.
The cost to a print journalist is a $30 phone call from his desk to the middle east. One person, one call.
No comparison to television at all. One reporter, one cameraman, one editor, one satellite to feed the pictures.... a team back in NZ to sort out what's sent... baggage costs, hotel rooms, meals, taxis... etc....etc.
The accountants among you know that already we are talking a sizable cost.
THINK ABOUT IT... IT'S A LEGITIMATE EXPLAINATION.... not one that's done to smooth waters with you. I couldn't care less if you resent TVNZ. It just shows you'd rather mindlessly knock TVNZ than actually weight things up factually. And the fact is we tried extremely hard.
Television is about pictures. No pictures... no story. That's the cold hard truth. There are some stories that make excellent print stories - say SPARC handing out funding....court cases as they detail evidence.... then there are some that make excellent television stories - ie a NASCAR crash and the merits of car safety. You go to a newspaper to see a detailed cricket scoreboard. You go to television to see the dismissals. Don't make the mistake of thinking all media is the same because it is not....Newspapers and TV and radio always cater to their individual strengths.
So to put file vision of the All Whites playing Jordan or worse shots of them practicing in New Zealand while the public knows the team is in Bahrain makes no sense whatsoever. But print journos can get away with it.
[QUOTE=james dean] While it may be arguable that the costs of travelling there outweighed the news value (which is hard to fathom considering that the stadium sold out so quickly for the return leg and the media have been going crazy for this story)
Correct me if I'm wrong but would they still be going crazy if Bahrain won 6nil in the first leg? Take your blinkers off. The general public are wary of the All Whites... They've heard about them being close to going to the world cup again for 25 years and the team has never delivered.
The general public also had a healthy dose of sceptciism about the 100th ranked team in the world going to a foreign country to play the 64th ranked team in the world in a city virtually no one had ever heard of. The football public knew the significance, but the footballers had to prove to the general publc that they were the real deal.
Don't show resentment at TVNZ for not pushing football's barrow. That's never been our job. The media reflects the interest of the general public. It's a chicken and the egg thing. You've got to ask yourself, did we help generate the public interest to sell out the stadium once the whistle blew for full time in Bahrain? If you've got any intelligence you would have to begrudgingly accept we did.
Every sport needs hardcore fanatical supporters.... but I agree with whoever wrote one of the previous posts. Sometimes fanatical supporters can do more harm than good to the sport they profess to love so much. Ignorant fans can do more harm than good.
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brown nose
How old are you? Nine?
A very mature nine AND A HALF.
How old are you that you get so precious about this?
"Phoenix till they lose"
Posting 97% bollox, 8% lies and 3.658% genuine opinion.
Genuine opinion: FTFFA
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Craig, I still think the coverage was sh*t. Not even a "good luck to boys in Bahrain" when signing off at the end of the broadcast, or remind people that it is actually on with one sentence on the subject.
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But, you know, it's not 'news' if it has no pictures....
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Are there no Wellington based (or in the general area) sports journos on the TVNZ payroll?
You (Craig Stanaway) say you can't do a good job covering the Phoenix from Auckland, fair enough, so am wondering if someone was down here they could do it more justice, of course depending on whether or not there is a news story to run.
Will that help any?
--
It also seems our news broadcasters these days like to shove doom and gloom down our throats (news stories in general), the football articles are generally negative, some I've seen start off well but always tend to end on a bad note. I don't know, is content something that is dictated from above.
Is no one interested in feel good stories anymore? or do we need to get a cute puppy on the roster at the nix?
Let me know if I can take my foil hat off.
You (Craig Stanaway) say you can't do a good job covering the Phoenix from Auckland, fair enough, so am wondering if someone was down here they could do it more justice, of course depending on whether or not there is a news story to run.
Will that help any?
--
It also seems our news broadcasters these days like to shove doom and gloom down our throats (news stories in general), the football articles are generally negative, some I've seen start off well but always tend to end on a bad note. I don't know, is content something that is dictated from above.
Is no one interested in feel good stories anymore? or do we need to get a cute puppy on the roster at the nix?
Let me know if I can take my foil hat off.
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Craig, I still think the coverage was sh*t. Not even a "good luck to boys in Bahrain" when signing off at the end of the broadcast, or remind people that it is actually on with one sentence on the subject.
Totally fair point. I think it was a massive oversight.
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Are there no Wellington based (or in the general area) sports journos on the TVNZ payroll?
You (Craig Stanaway) say you can't do a good job covering the Phoenix from Auckland, fair enough, so am wondering if someone was down here they could do it more justice, of course depending on whether or not there is a news story to run.
Will that help any?
It also seems our news broadcasters these days like to shove doom and gloom down our throats (news stories in general), the football articles are generally negative, some I've seen start off well but always tend to end on a bad note. I don't know, is content something that is dictated from above.
Is no one interested in feel good stories anymore? or do we need to get a cute puppy on the roster at the nix?
Let me know if I can take my foil hat off.
You (Craig Stanaway) say you can't do a good job covering the Phoenix from Auckland, fair enough, so am wondering if someone was down here they could do it more justice, of course depending on whether or not there is a news story to run.
Will that help any?
It also seems our news broadcasters these days like to shove doom and gloom down our throats (news stories in general), the football articles are generally negative, some I've seen start off well but always tend to end on a bad note. I don't know, is content something that is dictated from above.
Is no one interested in feel good stories anymore? or do we need to get a cute puppy on the roster at the nix?
Let me know if I can take my foil hat off.
If there is a feel good story let me know craig.stanaway@tvnz.co.nz and I promise you I will do it justice. I love doing stories like those
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It seems TVNZ didnt have enough money to do the first leg justice.
Perhaps if TVNZ didnt have wall to wall rugby coverage (four of five different news stories a night) and weekly coverage of how much the world loves Lomu, you guys might have more money.
Anyway I have vented, some serious questions is coming to your email.
brettdale2009-11-04 19:32:37
Perhaps if TVNZ didnt have wall to wall rugby coverage (four of five different news stories a night) and weekly coverage of how much the world loves Lomu, you guys might have more money.
Anyway I have vented, some serious questions is coming to your email.
brettdale2009-11-04 19:32:37
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