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The next Expansion Phase

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
The next Expansion Phase

Socceroo/ Mariner / Whangarei

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Link below is from a luncheon speech from Frank Lowy .....I am prepared to back Frank .... the man has balls and admits there is a risk ....I liked the way he admitted they got the start date wrong this year..

My reading of the tea leafs is for the next media deal & the WC bid we need the things Frank is pushing for..

http://au.fourfourtwo.com/news/115160,a2league-vital-says-lowy.aspx



A2-League 'Vital', Says Lowy

Oct 21 2009 17:46

FFA CHAIRMAN Frank Lowy has flagged an A-League second division in the future, saying promotion and relegation is a vital part of any competitive league.

Addressing a Melbourne Victory business luncheon, Lowy said that while FFA was mindful of the precarious state of some of the current A-League clubs, it would continue its expansion push and, in the medium-term future, wanted to introduce a second division in order to ensure a truly national competition.

"We need to support teams by developing a second division which can allow for promotion and relegation, which is the lifeblood of national football competitions around the world," he said.

"Some people might have suggested that this might be growing the league too quickly. I accept that there is a risk, and I know better than anyone else how fragile some of our existing A-League clubs are.

"But we could not continue forever with an eight-team competition and be taken seriously in world football.

"The larger competition will generate greater interest around the country, not just in isolated pockets of Australia, but a truly national game."

Lowy said the addition of second teams in Melbourne and Sydney over the next two years would create the first true A-League derbies, which he said was an essential component of any major league.

"Derbies hold a special place in football culture around the world,: said Lowy. "The rivalry that will build between the two teams from Melbourne and the two teams from Sydney will be very exciting events.

"The rivalry now between Sydney and Melbourne is exciting enough."

Lowy was questioned by attendees at the corporate event about the possible divisive nature of the establishment of a second Melbourne team from next season. He said that he believes the Heart franchise will challenge Victory to grow as a club and that can only be a good thing.

He added: "Had I been concerned about divisiveness, we would not have suggested two teams.

"I think Melbourne has proven itself that it can support two teams. It can create a rivalry and I would hope and expect that the spectators will grow as a result of that.

"A little bit of competition is not a bad thing. I believe and I hope we have not been wrong to do that and that game will be more popular as a result."

Lowy outlined his vision beyond the 12th A-League team, saying the competition would not be considered truly national until it could move into areas currently not aligned with an A-League team. That appeared an endorsement to the aspiring bids of the likes of Canberra and Tasmania.

"It's a vision that I have," he said. "We are a long way from the 13th and 14th team, but I hope that we will be able to put these two teams to the parts of the country where we will have no football.

"Football is an international game, played around the world and I want to see all of Australia covered with our game."

Meanwhile, Lowy admitted that the scheduling of the start of the A-League season in early August this year was a mistake and that FFA was looking at options of pushing the season start back so it didn't clash with the AFL and NRL.

He conceded: "I think there is a certain amount of trial an error (in fixturing). I think we now recognise that we need to start the league somewhat later than what we have before."

Socceroo/ Mariner / Whangarei

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Frank also talked about the next media deal ... from SBS .. but they got it partly wrong I think we are in the 4th year of the 7 year Fox deal not the 5th year..

http://www.theworldgame.com.au/australia/lowy-calls-for-free-to-air-deal-248021

Lowy calls for free-to-air deal


Australian football chief Frank Lowy says the game's next broadcast deal needs to include free-to-air television to get the sport "to the people".


Pay TV provider Foxtel is in the fifth year of a seven-year deal worth $120 million covering all Socceroos matches except the World Cup, as well as the A-League and Asian Champions League.

But FFA chairman Lowy said in the next deal, they would aim to reach a bigger audience while reaping more money.

"There's no doubt that the game needs to be shown on free-to-air from time to time, or certain parts of the competition on free-to-air," Lowy said at a Melbourne Victory business lunch on Wednesday.

"Because that's where the people are and we need to go to the people.

"I think we have grown up by now, that both the commercial free-to-air and the pay TV (operators) will realise that we are a growing sport, a very popular sport, and we are going places, so we will not be penalised financially.

"I think in the next two or three years that will bear out and we hope that we are able to negotiate a good contract with both free-to-air and with pay TV to get more than what we have now and a lot more later on."

Lowy also said along with an aim to eventually expand to a 14-team A-League, there were plans to introduce a second division in the "not too distant future".

"(It) will allow for promotion and relegation, which is the lifeblood of national football competitions around the world," he said.

He said there had been suggestions the league was growing too quickly and acknowledged that some A-League clubs remained financially "fragile".

But Lowy said the FFA were working hard to make sure all teams became profitable within the next few years and the league needed to expand to be taken seriously around the world.

The FFA boss also indicated future A-League seasons would start later in the year.

With the current season starting in August, the early rounds struggled to compete for publicity against the business end of the AFL and NRL.

"I think you need a certain amount of trial and error and I think we now recognise that we need to start the league somewhat later than what we have done before," Lowy said.
Midfielder2009-10-22 12:19:40

Socceroo/ Mariner / Whangarei

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Another NZ(Auckland) team please.
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Find someone willing to lose a million a year to make it happen EFC and it would be all yours.

How's my driving? - Whine here

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
When I win lotto, first thing I will do.....
 
If they did an A2-league, it could be quite use full for a NZ under-23 side to compete in it. (Never would happen
Everton FC2009-10-22 16:40:37
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Well timing is everything of course 
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
If, and its a huge if, the a-league ever considered another NZ team I would hope that it would not come from Auckland - not after the epic failures that were the kingz and knights. I realise a lot of their issues were management based but Aucklanders are notorious for not turning up to support anything. Personally I would think a team based in Christchurch would do better.

Queenslander 3x a year.

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Frank Lowy is a smart guy - he knows just like we all do that there is zero chance of a second A-League division any time in the near future.  It's not going to happen, there's just not enough money, sponsorship, support, grounds to make it happen.  You're talking about another 10 professional teams in Australia than there is now.  It's completely farcical, especially when you consider that bnoth the NRL and AFL are actively expanding.
 
But he wants the world to think that's what they are working towards as he jawbones Australia into a World Cup bid, and teies to get more places and more respect in the AFC.  This is a vote getter, nothing more

Normo's coming home

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Yeah its so unlikely to happen in the short to medium term its not even funny. The best bet would be a knock out Cup that involves club teams and A-League sides. Like the Americans have. It's been discussed before - 22 or so teams split out across the Aussie states (and if they're feeling generous, though not many reasons why they would consider it, a NZ club team) and the A-League, knock out, random opponents, like the FA Cup. More exposure for more players hoping to make a mark.
 
This whole second div is trying to excite the AFC.
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Is there any reason at all the FFA would give any NZ club a spot in a potential FFA Cup?....I think not! We're repeatedly told that the Nix are an Australian club based in an NZ city, so they'll be included, but no way will any NZ club or NZFC franchise be included. Can you imagine the up roar in Australia if 1 of their clubs is passed over for Waitakere, Auckland City or Team Welly?
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Couldn't any A-League 2 consist of part time teams? They could then 'upgrade' to full time depending on their success rates - i.e. gaining promotion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Paulinho wrote:
Yeah its so unlikely to happen in the short to medium term its not even funny. The best bet would be a knock out Cup that involves club teams and A-League sides. Like the Americans have. It's been discussed before - 22 or so teams split out across the Aussie states (and if they're feeling generous, though not many reasons why they would consider it, a NZ club team) and the A-League, knock out, random opponents, like the FA Cup. More exposure for more players hoping to make a mark.
 
This whole second div is trying to excite the AFC.
 
Yeah a cup is definitely needed.
 
If it worked properly then they could do away with the finals stage of the A-League.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

I dont think a second league would be a good idea. Many of the grounds have low attendances as it is and imagine if this is halved as many cities in Australia will have 2 major teams instead of the 1. The quality of football would also go down alot by having too many teams. The only postive would be promotion relegation. The best thing would be to expand the league to a maximum of 14 teams and introduce a knockout cup.

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Steve-O wrote:
Paulinho wrote:
Yeah its so unlikely to happen in the short to medium term its not even funny. The best bet would be a knock out Cup that involves club teams and A-League sides. Like the Americans have. It's been discussed before - 22 or so teams split out across the Aussie states (and if they're feeling generous, though not many reasons why they would consider it, a NZ club team) and the A-League, knock out, random opponents, like the FA Cup. More exposure for more players hoping to make a mark.
 
This whole second div is trying to excite the AFC.
 
Yeah a cup is definitely needed.
 
If it worked properly then they could do away with the finals stage of the A-League.
 
Whats the problem with a finals system? Creates excitement, gets extra supporters in, great for TV ratings

www.kiwifromthecouch.blogspot.com

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I was trying to lead him to say that

www.kiwifromthecouch.blogspot.com

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I was waiting for the "rest of the world."
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Agree that a finals system does create excitement and money. I'm personally not a big fan because it's not as fair as the league system. A league system (with no finals) finds out who gets the most points over a large amount of games. With a finals system you might win the league by 15 points then be unlucky and lose the final. Ok, tough luck I suppose, but I still prefer the winner of the league winning the whole thing. Not having a bash at the current A-League structure though - just a general preference.
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
bopman wrote:
 
Whats the problem with a finals system? Creates excitement, gets extra supporters in, great for TV ratings
 
It makes no sense, that's what the problem is.
 
You do well all season and finish top of the league and yet there's a chance you don't actually finish as champions because you might have an off day in one game?
 
IMO it would be more appealing to have a league winner proper (not having the potential of the team in 6th place becoming champions) who would enter the AFC, and a knockout cup tournament with the winners of that also entering the AFC.
 
As for the comments about 'thats not how they do it in Scotland' - try every other football league in the entire world (although I see this is not an acceptable opinion either according to Mr Incredible? How bizarre.).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Because every other league in the world (not including the US) has 100 years of that system. 

Australia has a culture of a grand final in all sports, and if the game is to grow appealing to a few ex-pats who follow the game in 'the rest pf the world' is nowhere near as important as getting people who have been born and bred on League or Australian Rules in the gate.

This is a different market to the rest of the world and to engage with that market you need to give people something they identify with.  Hence Grand Final Kulcha.

How's my driving? - Whine here

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Hard News wrote:
Because every other league in the world (not including the US) has 100 years of that system. 

Australia has a culture of a grand final in all sports, and if the game is to grow appealing to a few ex-pats who follow the game in 'the rest pf the world' is nowhere near as important as getting people who have been born and bred on League or Australian Rules in the gate.

This is a different market to the rest of the world and to engage with that market you need to give people something they identify with.  Hence Grand Final Kulcha.
 
What I am saying though is perhaps a knockout competition could cater for this side of things and become a big deal on it's own.
 
I know of the AFL finals and all, but it just seems unfair, and in a way pointless, to have a long(ish) league season of 27 games and the team who wins are not actually the Champions until they play what effectively is a knockout tournament which could render their otherwise successful season fairly meaningless.
 
A potential problem is that the crowds won't actually bother turning up in decent numbers until the finals, and the disappointing crowds so far this season could be an indication of that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
The culture in sport in this part of the world though is to be the best team you need to be able to win those big final games. Take the example of the Wellington rugby team, been 1 or 2 in the league for 4 or 5 of the last 7 years I think but sure as sh*t no one thinks they are the best team because they can't win finals.
 
Its part of the package.

www.kiwifromthecouch.blogspot.com

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Steve-O wrote:
bopman wrote:
 
Whats the problem with a finals system? Creates excitement, gets extra supporters in, great for TV ratings

As for the comments about 'thats not how they do it in Scotland' - try every other football league in the entire world (although I see this is not an acceptable opinion either according to Mr Incredible? How bizarre.).


This is the Australian League though, not the "rest of the world league." Australians love play offs, they get the biggest supporters and draw the most media.
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
semis and final is less fair in football than it is in the rugby/league world due to the different  nature of the games.  I'm quite EXCITED to say that I agree with Steve-O: League champion by league points along with a knockout competition is my preferred format.  I understand the marketing reasons for what they do but I'd rather they were doing something like 1st and 2nd going into a 3 match playoff.  It would at least take a bit of chance out of it 
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Steve-O wrote:
bopman wrote:
 
Whats the problem with a finals system? Creates excitement, gets extra supporters in, great for TV ratings

As for the comments about 'thats not how they do it in Scotland' - try every other football league in the entire world (although I see this is not an acceptable opinion either according to Mr Incredible? How bizarre.).


This is the Australian League though, not the "rest of the world league." Australians love play offs, they get the biggest supporters and draw the most media.
 
Australia is in the world though right?
 
Was the old league before the A-League the same format, or was that a straight out league format?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Finals

www.kiwifromthecouch.blogspot.com

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
bopman wrote:
The culture in sport in this part of the world though is to be the best team you need to be able to win those big final games. Take the example of the Wellington rugby team, been 1 or 2 in the league for 4 or 5 of the last 7 years I think but sure as sh*t no one thinks they are the best team because they can't win finals.
 
Its part of the package.
 
Surely though in a league system the best team has to be the one who has the most points after all the games are completed?
 
If, for example, Manchester Utd win the EPL, but Portsmouth win the FA Cup, which is in itself a big finals game, then who are the best team in England? Portsmouth?
 
I'm not saying the finals are not exciting or anything like that, I just think the rest of the league season just doesn't have the same importance when there is a finals system at the end.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
No but it is part of being the best team that you have to be able to win the big games at the end of the season.
Interestingly the NPC was a league system until the early 90's, im unsure why they went to the finals system but I would imagine it had a lot to do with the growing influence of Australian sport and in particular the NRL.

www.kiwifromthecouch.blogspot.com

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Well based on that, how does anyone know whether the A-League would work without the finals if it's never been tried out?
 
I'm not convinced the A-League would fail if the finals system didn't exist. It would be interesting to try it out for a season, with a knockout cup alongside it. Whether it'll happen anytime soon, or ever, I don't know.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Steve-O wrote:
bopman wrote:
The culture in sport in this part of the world though is to be the best team you need to be able to win those big final games. Take the example of the Wellington rugby team, been 1 or 2 in the league for 4 or 5 of the last 7 years I think but sure as sh*t no one thinks they are the best team because they can't win finals.
 
Its part of the package.
 
Surely though in a league system the best team has to be the one who has the most points after all the games are completed?
 
If, for example, Manchester Utd win the EPL, but Portsmouth win the FA Cup, which is in itself a big finals game, then who are the best team in England? Portsmouth?
 
I'm not saying the finals are not exciting or anything like that, I just think the rest of the league season just doesn't have the same importance when there is a finals system at the end.


In the European champions league if Read Madrid comes higher than Manchester United in the group stage but United wins the Final then who is the best team in Europe? Real Madrid?
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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
If it was an embedded competition with 25 thou showing up to every game every week then yeah I would agree give it a go for a bit but the big crowds show up at finals time. All of these teams are not the biggest show in town, they do become a big draw however when they make finals.
 
These people would more than likely not show up if there weren't finals to follow when the city gets behind the team.

www.kiwifromthecouch.blogspot.com

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Steve-O wrote:
Well based on that, how does anyone know whether the A-League would work without the finals if it's never been tried out?
 
I'm not convinced the A-League would fail if the finals system didn't exist. It would be interesting to try it out for a season, with a knockout cup alongside it. Whether it'll happen anytime soon, or ever, I don't know.


I am convinced it WOULD fail without the finals system. Australians and NZers don't understand anything else.

I think that a lot of football fans would prefer a league system without finals but it's just not how sport works down here.
valeo2009-10-24 22:31:13

a.haak

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
bopman wrote:
No but it is part of being the best team that you have to be able to win the big games at the end of the season.
Interestingly the NPC was a league system until the early 90's, im unsure why they went to the finals system but I would imagine it had a lot to do with the growing influence of Australian sport and in particular the NRL.
 
Fair enough. I just think it's been shown time and time again that almost any team can beat any other team in a one off game and there are teams who have been without doubt the best team over the season who might have one bad night, and that's it, all the work over the rest of the season is donald ducked. Doesn't seem that fair.
 
I appreciate that's how it is down here, it's just harder to fathom when you've come from the other side of the world where there really is no similar system in any sport that I can think of. Although, maybe Rugby League in England does finals, I'm not even sure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago


In the European champions league if Read Madrid comes higher than Manchester United in the group stage but United wins the Final then who is the best team in Europe? Real Madrid?
 
Not a fair comparison - teams play 6 games in their Champions League group. It's nothing like a full domestic season.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
It would be alright if there was a fully working relegation/promotion system in place but I don't see that ever happening with the A-League. 

a.haak

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
bopman wrote:
If it was an embedded competition with 25 thou showing up to every game every week then yeah I would agree give it a go for a bit but the big crowds show up at finals time. All of these teams are not the biggest show in town, they do become a big draw however when they make finals.
 
These people would more than likely not show up if there weren't finals to follow when the city gets behind the team.
 
Well this is what I was saying in an earlier point though. It's all very well everyone showing up at finals time and jumping on the bandwagon, but the A-League can't continue to survive if crowds throughout the main season keep going down.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe_B5CzbTJo - Caceres winning penalty v Perth - footage from the Fever Zone

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over 16 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Steve-O wrote:
Although, maybe Rugby League in England does finals, I'm not even sure.
 
Yup. I believe thats the best model (Super league-UK League) for the a-league to follow, similar fan base and 4ish code in Uk and Aussie.
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