Budget 2008

Budget 2008

What do you think about it? I'm impressed with the tax cuts and the general plan outset by it. It gives some immediate relief and also further cuts scheduled for when the economy is set to start growing again. Sensible spending and no rash decisions. I think John Key is all talk and so far little policy to back up what he is saying. His tax cuts seem to benefit the rich the most which contradicts his criticism of Labour not giving enough relief to low income families. 

Agree with you that Key has been little more than promises and little policy - thus far when challenged on policy he goes a little quiet too. But this budget, whilst it helps a little doesn't inspire me to rush to the polss and vote Labour!!! Ultimately the extra $$ in the pocket per week will be going on fuel!

The main thing is John Key can't offer much more without putting the country into deficit. Tax cuts seem to be his only talking point, and many of the things in his rebuttal he talked about eg giving high speed internet to the country had already been outlined in labours budget! What he said about us all being better off under him just doesn't seem so true anymore.

yeah - he hasn't really got a lot to fight with anymore - his arguement that Labour is costing us all doesn't wash. simply fact is that world economics is screwing us over!

I'm impressed WillyB.  For someone young, you make a lot more sense than people twice or three times your age.

Cheers. One thing someone noted this morning on the radio was that one of the families that the news featured complaining about not having enough money for basic necessities had one of the latest model flat screen tv's in their living room! 

we are a low wage economy and have been for some yyears. The expectation of large tax cuts were never going to happen. Quite often I have trouble differentiating between National and Labour as they seem to be very close on so many issues.

Speicers? Na go to hanover group.  If its good enough for richard long its good enough for everyone.

it was an interesting budget. to be fair it was all cullen could do and not be playing hari kari with the economy. politically i doubt it will be enough.

All true. Bloody hell, I think we need the Yellow Fever party in government!

harden up - the $13 left over gets you a bottle of Kristov

I'm not worried. Not even sure if my income's taxed...

I've been meaning to talk to you about that. You need to lay low, find a safehouse for a while. You're probably wanted for tax evasion...

Admittedly "huge" tax cuts will never be a good idea, everything in moderation etc. But I get the feeling that you subscribe to the spending/inflation theories of Dr Cullen, 2ndBest. i.e. if X dollars are not taken from the taxpayer in the first place, then the taxpayer will spend X dollars and thus increase inflation by doing this. Surely you don't believe that if the Govt spends this money instead (i.e. No tax cut of X dollars) that the Govt spending is somehow immune from inflation?

How can you explain the high inflation over the last few years? Yes, world conditions have contributed some, commodity prices etc. pumping cash into the economy but Labour's spending (Govt spending) has also contributed to this.

I think you'll find John Key can and will offer more WillyB. What National are doing policy-wise is very smart and well worth any kind of "negative" press about National not having any policy just yet - they're keeping their cards close to their chest. They did it last election and it almost won them an election they had no right to win (i.e. strong economic climate, stable Labour government more-or-less, lots of unproven new blood, Brash was a polarizing figure) Had it not been for a few poorly judged meetings with some Brethrens (and other smaller gaffes) it would almost certainly have been National in power in 2005.

Having said my last couple of comments and all, it's nice to see a little bit of politics on the forum and some robust debate. I have to be friendly though the right side of the spectrum is looking a bit lonely at the moment <tumble weed>

[QUOTE=wilso] I have to be friendly though the right side of the spectrum is looking a bit lonely at the moment [/QUOTE

The question is are we wise spenders of money as a nation? With all the hire purchase etc we do it makes me wonder.  I can't help thinking with a much less government subsidized education system , and therefore less tax, we'd be complaining about the costs involved with sending children to school, despite having extra money. Apply this to healthcare, etc.
I'd be happier if the government owned Telecom, maybe perhaps then we'd not have some of the most expensive mobile phone rates in the world. Really I think the government has got the right idea with most things, just a question of whether some of the things are as well run as they should be (and really the education and health sectors aren't). This is where the debate comes in.

(punk-  I had a great lucid comment there- I accidently went back on the browser trying to find a link and lost it all! grr this is an attempted recovery from my short term memory)

I sort of said -

There's a clever cookie floating around with a right wing bent on this forum called petermcc.

I sometimes go Roy Keaneo on politics, apologies, but since they bumped me up front to striking for some unknown reason its quietened down a bit.

Despite the hideous profits being made by the banking industry there is no market entry from a private New Zealand owned bank.

Why?

Sometimes we need the government to create entities like the kiwibank because we aren't able  to do so individually.

The key people to the current government arrangement: Helen Clark and Michael Cullen, Winston Peters, Peter Dunne, the Greens and Jim Anderton quietly working away all care about New Zealand. Like, as a country.

They are all true pragmatic nationalists. Proud of our country and the values it has held over the last 150 years, aware of the current international environment and trying to do the best for our country.

It would be economical rational for us to be owned and operated by richer and more powerful folk from overseas.

National would have voted for the MAI (I think it was called) and helped to hasten this process when it was last in government.

If you want a largely privatised health system, and an education system like Australia's where middle class parents (over and above their supposedly insignificant tax payments) feel they have to pay thousands a year in private education fees for a good education, then yes the right wing philosophy is for you.

I think the majority of whityby's post is angst shared by many in Australia and other nations, partially inflamed by a bored media.

I'll give you an example in this post below of excellent results in literacy from December last year- "Again, our students are amongst the very best in the world in reading. Only Hong Kong, Finland and Korea achieved higher average scores"

http://www.publicaddress.net/default,4674.sm#post4674

Our contributions keep New Zealand going. The evil sounding 'state apparatus' are things we use everyday, or may need when the going gets rough- healthcare, ACC, superannuation, the police and so on.

If we significantly decrease our contributions through taxation we still pay through user pays. Not necessarily a cheaper option. And many in our society miss out.

I think there is plenty of room for tax cuts.  A quick look at the Treasury website says the Govt took $41.7billion in budget 03/04 and now want to swipe $61.9  billion in 08/09.  That's an extra $20 billion, nearly 50% more when inflation was around 15% over the last five years.  This puts extraordinary pressure on interest rates, in a smallish economy like NZ.

Even with that kind of surplus giving us the tax cuts most want ie $100+ per week is going to cost something in the range of $15bil a year to maintain, you say theres $60bil to play with, if the Nats spend $15bil a year just on tax cuts and try to imporve helth and education etc that surplsu wont last long!

Ahhh so we are not going to play nice.

I agree winston looks after number one...but he has been consistent in his nationalist outlook- looking after oldies, restricting immigration, raising the minimum wage etcetc...a pre 1984 nationalist view...

I think it is sad that you feel you have to pay for a private education for your children to get a decent education.

In Australia the Howard government was funding private schools more than he was funding public schools (have to check this, but fairly confident). I think this is disgusting.

I personally think education at high school level should be free to all. It necessary for a functioning democracy as well as creating a more equal society, with fewer people made outcasts by lack of educational chances. It gives those who do have the drive to suceed the opportunity to do so.

I don't think this government is hugely socialist. If strong New Zealanders would run our infrastructure- our airline, our railways, our public transport, our banks... I'm sure they would not object, it's just that this has not happened. It is possible that with our market size they may not all be attractive commercial propositions, and that there is a strong public good in ensuring they survive.

ACC, health, education these things are very much public goods and our motivation for having them is not about turning a dollar. Though it must be said the cost of insurance in Australia and other litigious states without ACC is quite high, and corporations are liable to find themselves being sued- as was the case in New Zealand before the legislation was introduced.

I agree tax cuts can lead to mom and pop investment, but mostly in the past it has increased consumer spending. The New Zealand stock market has had difficulty in creating this kind of investment culture, in the land where property has been so attractive.

I have to ask though when there are 9 so called 'socialist' governments in Australia how is it that you can assume that it is the capitalist barons who are leaving?

Maybe they like the public transport over there that means it is not essential to own a car or run one quite as frequently around the main cities...

plus dude they got snakes, spiders and Sydney F.C. We got the phoenix and the NZ cricket team...!

invest the money?! now there's a social utopia...don't we spend $1.10 to every $1 we earn? not exactly investing...

Exactly what I meant by the crap spending habits of this country...investing on a mass scale is highly unlikely.

The Nats don't have to cut anything, simply take the foot off the accelerator. Spending is up 8% this year alone.
The choice is between that $15 billion going into govt consumption or into productive sectors that lift NZ's earnings and wages.

Vote labour back in and see how Cullen deals with the Railways and the Tax cuts. It's almost like he's conceded he'l be out of office and is making it messy for his replacement. So vote him back in to clean it up.

"Mad Dog" Prebble along with the worlds first ever Capitalist Socialist Roger Douglas?? 

300,000 fulltime beneficiaries shows what a lie 'full employment ' is. Its pretty disgraceful and not something to be proud of. And after 9 years you can't say its a result of underspending on health or tax cuts.

Whitby boy2008-05-25 16:08:05

Food for thought , if the government slowed its spending growth to match inflation, there would be enough for a $46 a week tax cut for the average punter.