Cyclists
Who saw that thing on the news? The cyclists want the speed limit decreased and demand respect.
Well guess what cyclists, when you don't ride 2 or more abreast, when you don't go through red lights, when you stop refusing to ride on the shoulder on a 100km/h motorway, when you don't hit my car because, evidently, you're too close to it on Lambton Quay (long story), you can have my respect.
Until then get of the roads our registrations pay for, and if you want cycle lanes, make a bike registration system to pay for it. Why should driver's have drive at your speed?Michael2009-09-28 18:48:15
Well guess what cyclists, when you don't ride 2 or more abreast, when you don't go through red lights, when you stop refusing to ride on the shoulder on a 100km/h motorway, when you don't hit my car because, evidently, you're too close to it on Lambton Quay (long story), you can have my respect.
Until then get of the roads our registrations pay for, and if you want cycle lanes, make a bike registration system to pay for it. Why should driver's have drive at your speed?Michael2009-09-28 18:48:15
I do agree cyclist piss me off, but i know some people on here wont agree with that. I swear they should get a ticket if they are two abreast.
Why is there so much hatred and vitriol directed towards cyclists? I don't understand what they did to deserve it.
Because they quite rightly complain that car drivers don't show them any respect.
They've got as much right to be there as anyone, although I think the speed limit thing is stupid.
They've got as much right to be there as anyone, although I think the speed limit thing is stupid.
2 abreast is legal (although not always sensible). I guess the difference is inconsiderate cyclists cause annoyance and maybe some damage. Inconsiderate drivers = death.
I actually thought Wellington was becoming a more bike friendly place.
There was a death in otaki recently of a school teacher who was cycling and was hit by a drunk driver. Absolute tragedy.
I cycle when I can, and I do try to be as considerate as I can, after all cars (esp SUV's and buses) are much bigger than me and can kill me.
There are some crazy cyclists out there but the same goes for drivers. I don't agree with the speed restriction. Just more education on both sides.
A few years ago I tried to resurrect my youth and bike to work. Didn't last due to a) extreme slothfulness on my part and b) my trumped up feeble excuse that cycling home in the evenings on windy Wgtn streets was not very wise (previously cycled around in ChCh and Palmy).
I am now very much a lazy car-driving, bus-riding slob taking delight in such boorish Clarkson-isms:
http://www.pureclarkson.com/clarkson-on-cyclists/
http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/index.php/t-190329.html
One day I will pump up the tyres on my Specialized M2, put on my faded lycra, tune up the gears and replace the break pads and hit the tracks again.
And then promptly fall off and do myself an injury.
I am now very much a lazy car-driving, bus-riding slob taking delight in such boorish Clarkson-isms:
http://www.pureclarkson.com/clarkson-on-cyclists/
http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/index.php/t-190329.html
One day I will pump up the tyres on my Specialized M2, put on my faded lycra, tune up the gears and replace the break pads and hit the tracks again.
And then promptly fall off and do myself an injury.
"Until then get of the roads our registrations pay for, and if you want cycle lanes, make a bike registration system to pay for it. Why should driver's have drive at your speed?"
Or how about the fact that cyclists, pedestrians, and everybody else has just as much right to use inner-city space as you do? Considering the air, water, and noise pollution that cars emit (none of which costs you pay for) I would advise you to re-think your ideas. Or perhaps, just think.
You talk about cyclists running red lights. Fair enough. I sincerely hope then that you give cyclists a minimum of one metre space when passing, but judging from your experience of being hit, i suspect not. Or does the law only apply to cyclists?
Perhaps you should consider that cyclists are actually doing you a favour by not contributing to the congestion on the roads, by not polluting the air or waterways, and by not contributing to climate change (of which the consequences are predicted to be catastrophic).
Perhaps you should consider that cyclists are actually doing you a favour by not contributing to the congestion on the roads, by not polluting the air or waterways,�and by not contributing to climate change (of which the consequences are predicted to be catastrophic).
On your bike ... too much self-righteousness.
more like anger actually.
but i'll pedal off into the sunset...
Well, even in bike friendly places like ChCh and Palmy there is always tension between pedal pushers and motorists. I've lost a front tooth avoiding a car that didn't stop.
Car vs bike - no contest.
But I do get annoyed with people telling me what I should or shouldn't do and what I have and haven't paid for. Often it's people with the least skin in the game that like to impose their values on me (not directed at you since I don't know how much skin you have in the game...so to speak).
That's why i like Clarkson's take on this.
Car vs bike - no contest.
But I do get annoyed with people telling me what I should or shouldn't do and what I have and haven't paid for. Often it's people with the least skin in the game that like to impose their values on me (not directed at you since I don't know how much skin you have in the game...so to speak).
That's why i like Clarkson's take on this.
I would think it's less about imposing values on someone and more about sticking up for basic rights.
For example, a person speaking up against racist abuse being thrown at them is not imposing their values on you, but simply sticking up for their rights.
I just happen to regard being forced to inhale car fumes and then being told that it's a privilege to do so, as something which I need to respond to. Negatively.
Sigh!
Whose forcing you to inhale them?
Whose forcing you to inhale them?
I hate to break this to you, but car fumes are a gas, which is conveyed into the air... i think i'll let you draw the dots there...
WTF! They're a gas???
I thought they were fumes.
This ... changes ... everything.
I thought they were fumes.
This ... changes ... everything.
I'm all for people cycling, but I've had more trouble crossing the roads from cyclists than cars... For instance, last week was crossing Boulcott / Willis / Manners crossing. Now, everyone knows that all four lights go green for pedestrians at once so you walk through safely without needing to pay attention. Some guy on a bike absolutely Zoomed through and just missed nailing me. I saw him at the last second and we both had to dodge each other.
Also, walking to work down Willis St tired in the morning I've been walking down then stepped to the right and nearly been bowled over by cyclists cranking a massive pace down the footpath. Was pleased to see a few weeks later a bunch of cops catching them all.
Go cyclists. Most are good, but some think they can do whatever the hell they like because they are on a bike.
By and large I can't stand self-righteous cyclists. In my few years of driving I've seen more arrogant, rule-breaking cyclists than I have drivers (that's not proportionally, in numbers - I write it down, see). Then the cyclists throw up their arms about their 'rights' when a cyclist gets hit, but how many times do you see cyclists biking so far into the driving lane that a car can only a.) hit the cyclist b.) toot at them until they move c.) swerve into oncoming traffic.
I think the main reason there is so much animosity against cyclists is because they don't respect the rights of other road users. They constantly bleat and moan about how drivers treat them badly, but that's only the case because they are constantly breaking rules and risking the lives of themselves and others.
Don't get me started on buses either... with the drivers pulling out in front of you with 1/4 of a seconds notice when you're going 50km/h and are only a few metres from them.
I think the main reason there is so much animosity against cyclists is because they don't respect the rights of other road users. They constantly bleat and moan about how drivers treat them badly, but that's only the case because they are constantly breaking rules and risking the lives of themselves and others.
Don't get me started on buses either... with the drivers pulling out in front of you with 1/4 of a seconds notice when you're going 50km/h and are only a few metres from them.
When was the last time you saw a cyclist use hand signals to tell everybody else which way they want to go or they want to switch lanes? Probably 20 yrs ago. Also, pedestrian crossings are for pedestrians, not for cyclists who want to cross the street. If you're going to do that, get off your bike then cross.
Cyclists drive me up the wall. I like cycling, I like mountain biking, but between padestrians and cyclists in the CBD I am so close to going postal it's not funny. I think it comes from an ignorance that biking a metre out from the kurb in narrow wellington streets is fine, when clearly it turns a 2 way street into a 1 way street. Cyclists take a look at yourselves before you blame others.
but how many times do you see cyclists biking so far into the driving lane that a car can only a.) hit the cyclist b.) toot at them until they move c.) swerve into oncoming traffic.I think the main reason there is so much animosity against cyclists is because they don't respect the rights of other road users.�
When I did try biking in Wgtn whenever I got to the Karori Tunnel I would go right into the middle of the lane. That way the cars couldn't overtake or squeeze me over to the side. (once out of the tunnel I was hard to the left)
I get extremely annoyed with sneaky cyclists coming up on the left when the cars are still and then getting indignant when the cars start to move and they run out of space.
Nothing more satisfying than seeing them get a flat.
to loyalgunner and brumbys: the reason for riding away from the curb is one of safety. i have had three very nasty accidents from drivers opening up their car door right in front of me, and have no desire to repeat the experience. I would rather annoy you then get killed, that's a purely selfish decision on my part, but one for which i make no excuses. If that's unacceptable to you, ring the council and tell them to provide a cycle lane.
and loyalgunner, you forgot a fourth: d) wait patiently until you can pass.
I'm sure you can understand that it is more than inconvenient for drivers to have to slow down to 15km/h so that some inconsiderate cyclist can slowly meander up the road.
Fair point about the parked car/door thing, but how far does a door open? Usually a metre at most. You'll need a bit more than that to justifying cyclists who go far further out than that.
Another point, why should it be the driver who "wait(s) patiently until you can pass"? Surely there's just as valid an argument, then, that the cyclist should stop, wait for the cars to go past and then ride in the middle of the lane past the parked cars.
Personally I enjoy a bit of mountain biking and will bike somewhere (very close by) if need be. I just hate the inconsiderate cyclists and when cyclists jump up and down about the 'injustices'.
Fair point about the parked car/door thing, but how far does a door open? Usually a metre at most. You'll need a bit more than that to justifying cyclists who go far further out than that.
Another point, why should it be the driver who "wait(s) patiently until you can pass"? Surely there's just as valid an argument, then, that the cyclist should stop, wait for the cars to go past and then ride in the middle of the lane past the parked cars.
Personally I enjoy a bit of mountain biking and will bike somewhere (very close by) if need be. I just hate the inconsiderate cyclists and when cyclists jump up and down about the 'injustices'.
Another point, why should it be the driver who "wait(s) patiently until you can pass"?
ummm, the road code...
i'm not justifying cyclists who ride further into the road then they need to, just pointing out why i don't ride right next to the kerb. yes, i can understand it is inconvenient for drivers to slow down, but you're forgetting that cyclists also have a right to use the road. simply using the road does not make them inconsiderate.
Frank, the man that died in the Otaki crash used to date my Mum a few years back so I got to know him quite well, so after hearing the news I was gutted.
Also have been a cyclist for a few years myself, so I know the dangers of the road. Most of the time people were considerate and moved a good couple of metres to get around me. Sometimes though people would come up speeding right beside me.
Since becoming a driver too, I've noticed how cyclists can be bloody annoying too.
I think that cyclists need to stop thinking they own the road, and for motorists to be a bit more aware of them.HarryPeters2009-09-29 00:39:00
Also have been a cyclist for a few years myself, so I know the dangers of the road. Most of the time people were considerate and moved a good couple of metres to get around me. Sometimes though people would come up speeding right beside me.
Since becoming a driver too, I've noticed how cyclists can be bloody annoying too.
I think that cyclists need to stop thinking they own the road, and for motorists to be a bit more aware of them.HarryPeters2009-09-29 00:39:00
As a cyclist there's nothing I hate more than seeing other cyclists acting in a manner that gives the talk-back radio cranks more ammunition to use against us.
i bike to work and from my point of view its all those slow moving cars that hold me up in the morning! Sometimes theres not enough room to pass them on the left. Was glad of my bike yesterday after work the cars didn't look like they were going anywhere in a hurry.
Nothing more satisfying than seeing them get a flat.
Nothing more satisfying than riding past traffic banked up for miles.
It never ceases to amaze me the hatred and venom car-drivers have towards each other and cyclists, it's a very sad thing to see. It's almost as if being cocooned in a car releases people from any sort of polite and responsible behaviour.
The two or more cyclists abreast thing makes me laugh, as if it's the most heinous of crimes, what because it delays you for a minute or two? (if that), when you occasionally have to pass a couple of road cyclists. Yet on a daily basis I see motorists speeding, texting on mobile phones, throwing crap out of the windows (when did you last see a cyclist throw Macdonalds crap all over the road?), drunk, high, angry to the point of foaming at the mouth, putting themselves and everyone else in danger. Yet these morally irresponsible drivers are still somehow more acceptable than a guy on a bike? How many cyclists have killed other road users this year?
I don't break traffic rules and have not run a red in many years thats despite sometimes not being able to trip a light due to being on a bike. I'm polite and courteous, will wave and give a thumbs up if I meet a courteous driver. I always stop and offer assistance to other cyclists if I think they need a hand and have done so for other people too.
In return I have been run over when a guy pulled out in front of me although I had the right of way. I have had threats and beer bottles chucked at me, I have been forced to ride in the gutter as at least 50% will not give me the meter of space you are supposed to so have to ride in through glass and all sorts of crap, (amazing for a country with such mythical ball handling skills you lot sure drop a lot of beer bottles). I will not ride in the door zone though, and I am amazed at how a hell of a lot of car drivers don't even know how to safely open a door.
You'd think car-drivers would be pleased about cyclists. One less car park space taken, one less person to have to wait for at the petrol station, one less person to be stuck behind in a traffic jam, one less person using up petrol. But no you have to have some irrational hatred because some people choose to ride a bike to work ffs it's pathetic.
Why do I do it though? Well when you see the faces of collegues in the morning who have just managed to roll out of bed and scratch their arses, half dead and pasty-faced, that's why I ride a bike because it's about being alive. My commute is an adventure everyday and each journey is a unique experience. I often ask collegues what did they remember about the car-ride in and they mostly can't remember anything, because it's the same ol' same ol'l everyday.
In a couple of hundred years the world will look back at the way we drive cars and think of us as insane.
ForteanTimes2009-09-29 15:37:19
The two or more cyclists abreast thing makes me laugh, as if it's the most heinous of crimes, what because it delays you for a minute or two? (if that), when you occasionally have to pass a couple of road cyclists. Yet on a daily basis I see motorists speeding, texting on mobile phones, throwing crap out of the windows (when did you last see a cyclist throw Macdonalds crap all over the road?), drunk, high, angry to the point of foaming at the mouth, putting themselves and everyone else in danger. Yet these morally irresponsible drivers are still somehow more acceptable than a guy on a bike? How many cyclists have killed other road users this year?
I don't break traffic rules and have not run a red in many years thats despite sometimes not being able to trip a light due to being on a bike. I'm polite and courteous, will wave and give a thumbs up if I meet a courteous driver. I always stop and offer assistance to other cyclists if I think they need a hand and have done so for other people too.
In return I have been run over when a guy pulled out in front of me although I had the right of way. I have had threats and beer bottles chucked at me, I have been forced to ride in the gutter as at least 50% will not give me the meter of space you are supposed to so have to ride in through glass and all sorts of crap, (amazing for a country with such mythical ball handling skills you lot sure drop a lot of beer bottles). I will not ride in the door zone though, and I am amazed at how a hell of a lot of car drivers don't even know how to safely open a door.
You'd think car-drivers would be pleased about cyclists. One less car park space taken, one less person to have to wait for at the petrol station, one less person to be stuck behind in a traffic jam, one less person using up petrol. But no you have to have some irrational hatred because some people choose to ride a bike to work ffs it's pathetic.
Why do I do it though? Well when you see the faces of collegues in the morning who have just managed to roll out of bed and scratch their arses, half dead and pasty-faced, that's why I ride a bike because it's about being alive. My commute is an adventure everyday and each journey is a unique experience. I often ask collegues what did they remember about the car-ride in and they mostly can't remember anything, because it's the same ol' same ol'l everyday.
In a couple of hundred years the world will look back at the way we drive cars and think of us as insane.
ForteanTimes2009-09-29 15:37:19
I'm not feeling particularly eloquent, but I will add my name to the list of cyclists, and to those saying drivers need to calm down and tolerate other road users.
And yes, I drive too.
And yes, I drive too.
The attitide that Kiwi drivers seem to have towards cyclists never ceases to amaze me either. When I lived in London I used to ride to work every day, through rush hour traffic, never had any real problems and loved it. When I lived in Wellington I used to ride from home in Upper Hutt to Lower Hutt and copped more sh*t and aggression there than I ever did in London. Strange, eh?
Personally, before lobbing grenades at cyclists, it might be be more useful if Kiwi drivers managed to get their heads round things such as:Indicators are supposed to alert other motorists to what you plan to do. Puttting an indicator on after you've made the move defeats the purpose somewhat. Obviously, this is aimed at the minority of Kiwi drivers who actually use their indicators at all. I wasn't aware that indicators were an optional extra on cars till I came to this country
It isn't actually necessary to want to drive 15 kph faster than the car in front of you, irrespective of the fact that the car in front is doing 110 kph.
While travelling at 100 odd kph, it might be safer if you don't sit 4 cms behind the bumper of the car in front
If you took the above two points on board, you wouldn't have to keep braking every 3 seconds. Would you?
The procedure at roundabouts is not to stop, sit and look at each other until somebody decides to move.
Driving a ute or a white van does not make you Lewis Hamilton
Just because you drive for a living does not automatically make you a good driver
I could go on........
I can solve all those problems Jag... let me drive this on the roads:
Slap a YF logo on it and it would be perfect, News.
I do agree cyclist piss me off, but i know some people on here wont agree with that. I swear they should get a ticket if they are two abreast.
RULES FOR CYCLISTS
Wear your helmet.
Do not ride more than two abreast.
Ride in single file when passing other vehicles, including parked vehicles.
Use a clear arm signal if you intend to turn, reduce your speed or stop.
At intersections follow the same rules as drivers, otherwise walk across.
Stick to the cycle path where there is one. Where there is no cycle path, use the road, staying as far left as possible.
Only ride on the footpath if delivering newspapers, mail or leaflets.
You may use a bus lane to cycle in as long as there is no sign prohibiting this.
just to add another drivers point of view to the arguement, cyclist drive me nuts, there are a few that I've seen that follow the road rules as they are supposed too, these I give a wide berth. there are sadly plenty of other muppets one whom I saw yesterday riding along the road, helmet strappeed to the handle bars, running a red who as far as im concerned deserve to get knowcked off by a truck.
Personally I agree that bikes are allowed to shared the road, but you can't and shouldn't have it both ways ie if you use the road follow the rules that we all have to, indicate for 3 seconds when your turning, stop at the lights, don't crash into pedistrians crossing on a crossing (yes I've seen this too). Stuff like that causes me to lose all respect for cyclists....and it happens all the time.
theprof2009-09-29 13:51:06
Don't lose respect for all cyclists. Just for the idiots.Have mercy on the rest.
You're right sanday. It's all about road users respecting each other.
There are bogon petrol heads and immature cyclists who think they are bullet proof, impatient drivers and self-righteous flat-earthers on two wheels.
The rest of us just get on with getting from A to B as efficiently and safely as possible.
However cyclists will always be at a disadvantage in terms of visibility (lack of) and vulnerability (lots of) to cars so they should expect that more often than not they will be on the receiving end of things.
There are bogon petrol heads and immature cyclists who think they are bullet proof, impatient drivers and self-righteous flat-earthers on two wheels.
The rest of us just get on with getting from A to B as efficiently and safely as possible.
However cyclists will always be at a disadvantage in terms of visibility (lack of) and vulnerability (lots of) to cars so they should expect that more often than not they will be on the receiving end of things.
I do agree cyclist piss me off, but i know some people on here wont agree with that. I swear they should get a ticket if they are two abreast.
RULES FOR CYCLISTS
Wear your helmet.
Do not ride more than two abreast.
Ride in single file when passing other vehicles, including parked vehicles.
Use a clear arm signal if you intend to turn, reduce your speed or stop.
At intersections follow the same rules as drivers, otherwise walk across.
Stick to the cycle path where there is one. Where there is no cycle path, use the road, staying as far left as possible.
Only ride on the footpath if delivering newspapers, mail or leaflets.
You may use a bus lane to cycle in as long as there is no sign prohibiting this.
Sorry but as a New Zealand Cycling trainer one of these rules is wrong and the others poorly thought out. I suggest you don't go instructing people in safe cycling techniques unless you been on a trainers course recognized by the NZ transport agency.
ForteanTimes2009-09-29 15:31:50
It looks to me like 'might is right' from a lot of the comments on here.