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The thread formerly known as Ashley Cole

102 replies · 2,817 views
almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
errr no, I was trying to get back onto the original topic so it would refocus and not get moved but I see I am too late!
Proud to have attended the first 175 Consecutive "Home" Wellington Phoenix "A League" Games !!

The Ruf, The Ruf, The Ruf is on Fire!!

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Arsenal wrote:
UberGunner wrote:

 START RANT/

What I don't understand is how people who make any form of joke at any minority's expense are branded as haters. If i took the mickey out of someone for their driving skills, (regardless of what they actually where) does that make me a hater of all motorists?
The term Homophobic is a heavy sledge that people who cant form decent arguments love to swing.
Yesterday i teased a colleague because of his new haircut (he let his flatmate do it, and now he has a bizarre resemblance to vanilla ice), does that mean i hate people with bad hair cuts, white rappers and everything to do with the 80's. this whole argument boils down to the fact that someone has taken offence to the fact that Ashley Cole has been insinuated to be a Homosexual. Does that offend all homosexuals to imply that he could be one?
 
Righteous indignation should only be justified by those who are targets of intentional malice and hostility. To be offended on their behalf is just as belittling and demeaning. If you find a homosexual to post their opinion of the offending material and can justify that the joke was intended to hurt gay people then fine by me. otherwise please, get a life and stay off the Internet if you are that easily offended.
END RANT/


Bang on.


i tend to agree with you, but this line just jars with me - if your mate was getting beaten up would you a) stand by and watch b) walk away c) be indignant and help him
Cosimo2008-04-04 12:10:52
I like tautologies because I like them.
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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

and both sides raise valid points, do i have to choose a "team"? oh yeah, you are either with us or against us.

I've had posts deleted on here for being too offensive, so obviously some things are more offensive than others. In this thread Harry and some others took offense, and some others didn't. I'm sure members of the anti "PC Brigade" (pointless generalisation, btw) find some things offensive as well - everyone has their sore points.
Cosimo2008-04-04 12:33:29
I like tautologies because I like them.
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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
UberGunner wrote:

�START RANT/


What�I don't understand is how people who make any form of joke at any minority's expense are branded as haters. If i took the mickey out of someone for their driving skills, (regardless of what they actually where) does that make me a hater of all motorists?

The term Homophobic is a heavy sledge that people who cant form decent arguments love to swing.

Yesterday i teased a colleague because of his new haircut (he let his flatmate do it, and now he has a bizarre resemblance to vanilla ice), does that mean i hate people with bad hair cuts, white rappers and everything to do with the 80's. this whole argument boils down to the fact that someone has taken offence to the fact that Ashley Cole has been insinuated to be a Homosexual. Does that offend all homosexuals to imply that he could be one?

�

Righteous indignation should only be justified by those who are targets of intentional malice and hostility. To be offended on their behalf is just as belittling and demeaning. If you find a homosexual to post their opinion of the offending material�and can justify that the joke was intended to hurt gay people then fine by me. otherwise please, get a life and stay off the Internet if you are that easily offended.

END RANT/


You completely miss the point UG. Jokes aimed at people's driving/football skills, haircuts, clothes, etc are not particularly offensive because in essence they strike at experiences which can be learned and improved on, or abandoned altogether. If you're a bad driver, and have that pointed out to you either politely or mockingly, you can a) try to improve your driving or b) give up and go on bus. If you're gay, or black/Asian, mocking of that fact strikes at the core of who you are, and not at what you've learnt/done, and how badly you went about it. You can't stop being gay or black (well, unless you're Michael Jackson), and that's the fundamental difference with the examples that you've cited.

The second issue is that of acceptance jibes at minorities because of supposed humour inherent in it. This reminds me of people who say "I'm not racist/homophobic BUT...". It's the persistance of such attitudes that suggest that intolerance, no matter how thinly disguised, is still alive and kicking in this country and I find that sad and pathetic.
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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
UberGunner wrote:
sanday wrote:
I just don't find it funny.
But your not about to start accusing BuffonII of being a Homophobic bigot though....

I don't know him well enough to accuse him of that.So i wouldn't. I just don't see the point of using one section of society to denigrate an english footballer.
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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
i think that  El Grapadura and Harry Hotspur's views are worth reading without just dismissing them as PC
 
to my mind they both make believable points
 
i've been following this topic for a few days and what helped me figure out which side of the discussion made more sense to me, was thinking how i'd feel if either of my lads were gay (or any future grandkids) and they had to face humour which was connected to the idea that they were inferior people 
 
i don't think life would suddenly become humourless if people (me included) thought about the impact of their jokes on others
 
 
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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Let's just agree Ashley Cole is a c**t who may/may not like boys.
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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
el grapadura wrote:
UberGunner wrote:

 START RANT/


What I don't understand is how people who make any form of joke at any minority's expense are branded as haters. If i took the mickey out of someone for their driving skills, (regardless of what they actually where) does that make me a hater of all motorists?

The term Homophobic is a heavy sledge that people who cant form decent arguments love to swing.

Yesterday i teased a colleague because of his new haircut (he let his flatmate do it, and now he has a bizarre resemblance to vanilla ice), does that mean i hate people with bad hair cuts, white rappers and everything to do with the 80's. this whole argument boils down to the fact that someone has taken offence to the fact that Ashley Cole has been insinuated to be a Homosexual. Does that offend all homosexuals to imply that he could be one?

 

Righteous indignation should only be justified by those who are targets of intentional malice and hostility. To be offended on their behalf is just as belittling and demeaning. If you find a homosexual to post their opinion of the offending material and can justify that the joke was intended to hurt gay people then fine by me. otherwise please, get a life and stay off the Internet if you are that easily offended.

END RANT/


You completely miss the point UG. Jokes aimed at people's driving/football skills, haircuts, clothes, etc are not particularly offencive because in essence they strike at experiences which can be learned and improved on, or abandoned altogether. If you're a bad driver, and have that pointed out to you either politely or mockingly, you can a) try to improve your driving or b) give up and go on bus. If you're gay, or black/Asian, mocking of that fact strikes at the core of who you are, and not at what you've learnt/done, and how badly you went about it. You can't stop being gay or black (well, unless you're Michael Jackson), and that's the fundamental difference with the examples that you've cited.

The second issue is that of acceptance jibes at minorities because of supposed humour inherent in it. This reminds me of people who say "I'm not racist/homophobic BUT...". It's the persistance of such attitudes that suggest that intolerance, no matter how thinly disguised, is still alive and kicking in this country and I find that sad and pathetic.
 
Your right my analogy isn't the best. Jut the joke wasn't at the expense of homosexuals - the target was Ashley Cole.
This might be about as un pc as it can get but here goes.
Q.What do you call a dog with only on leg?
A.Heather
Thats an un pc joke. People with disability's aren't the target, and nothing derogatory is implied on anyone other than heather Mills-McCartney. Would you say I'm displaying intolerance to cripples?
I personally have a disability (quite physically noticeable) and i cant recall ever getting upset about a handicap joke.
Q.What is the hardest part of a vegetable to eat?
A.His wheelchair.
(i had to through that last one in as its one of my all time favourite jokes)
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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I'm not saying that it's impossible to have humour relating to 'sensitive' issues, just that it needs to be done with a bit of forethought.
I know Buffy was targeting Cashley, and I'm sure he didn't mean anything bad with his joke, but I just feel it's a slippery slope simply accepting jokes that have as its basic premise that one section of society is inferior to the rest.
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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
rodfarva wrote:
holy shinto, the 'homophobic' brigade really need to chill out. harryhotspur you won't get much sleep if you are on a crusade to wipe out any criticism of any group or class of people.
�

for the record i thought the fake article was quite well done.


I think my original post also commended him on his editing talents - undeniably impressive...but I am less enamoured with the content (obviously).

I'm not on a crusade, but do feel that such a tack warrants challenge.

And whoever, used the term'p.c brigade'...please, that term has been appropriated by people as a label to defend their own lack of tolerance. It is about as meaningful as the word 'fascist' when used by angry teenagers pissed off with the 'system'.
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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
those are pretty funny jokes UberGunner, i've got some hilarious Maori jokes, but am I stupid enough to post them on here? no way. Anyway, they'd be deleted....Harry's original point is valid - gay jokes fine, racist jokes not fine.
I like tautologies because I like them.
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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Hard News wrote:
Cosimo... don't Frankie Mac it.
 
are you questioning my sexuality?
I like tautologies because I like them.
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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
UberGunner wrote:
el grapadura wrote:
UberGunner wrote:

�START RANT/


What�I don't understand is how people who make any form of joke at any minority's expense are branded as haters. If i took the mickey out of someone for their driving skills, (regardless of what they actually where) does that make me a hater of all motorists?

The term Homophobic is a heavy sledge that people who cant form decent arguments love to swing.

Yesterday i teased a colleague because of his new haircut (he let his flatmate do it, and now he has a bizarre resemblance to vanilla ice), does that mean i hate people with bad hair cuts, white rappers and everything to do with the 80's. this whole argument boils down to the fact that someone has taken offence to the fact that Ashley Cole has been insinuated to be a Homosexual. Does that offend all homosexuals to imply that he could be one?

�

Righteous indignation should only be justified by those who are targets of intentional malice and hostility. To be offended on their behalf is just as belittling and demeaning. If you find a homosexual to post their opinion of the offending material�and can justify that the joke was intended to hurt gay people then fine by me. otherwise please, get a life and stay off the Internet if you are that easily offended.

END RANT/
You completely miss the point UG. Jokes aimed at people's driving/football skills, haircuts, clothes, etc are not particularly offencive because in essence they strike at experiences which can be learned and improved on, or abandoned altogether. If you're a bad driver, and have that pointed out to you either politely or mockingly, you can a) try to improve your driving or b) give up and go on bus. If you're gay, or black/Asian, mocking of that fact strikes at the core of who you are, and not at what you've learnt/done, and how badly you went about it. You can't stop being gay or black (well, unless you're Michael Jackson), and that's the fundamental difference with the examples that you've cited. The second issue is that of acceptance jibes at minorities because of supposed humour inherent in it. This reminds me of people who say "I'm not racist/homophobic BUT...". It's the persistance of such attitudes that suggest that intolerance, no matter how thinly disguised, is still alive and kicking in this country and I find that sad and pathetic.

�

Your right my analogy isn't the best. Jut the joke wasn't at the expense of homosexuals - the target was Ashley Cole.

This might be about as un pc as it can get but here goes.

Q.What do you call a dog with only on leg?

A.Heather

Thats an un pc joke. People with disability's aren't the target, and nothing derogatory is implied on anyone other than heather Mills-McCartney. Would you say I'm displaying intolerance to cripples?

I personally have a disability (quite physically noticeable) and i cant recall ever getting upset about a handicap joke.

Q.What is the hardest part of a vegetable to eat?

A.His wheelchair.

(i had to through that last one in as its one of my all time favourite jokes)


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
UberGunner wrote:

 START RANT/

What I don't understand is how people who make any form of joke at any minority's expense are branded as haters. If i took the mickey out of someone for their driving skills, (regardless of what they actually where) does that make me a hater of all motorists?
The term Homophobic is a heavy sledge that people who cant form decent arguments love to swing.
Yesterday i teased a colleague because of his new haircut (he let his flatmate do it, and now he has a bizarre resemblance to vanilla ice), does that mean i hate people with bad hair cuts, white rappers and everything to do with the 80's. this whole argument boils down to the fact that someone has taken offence to the fact that Ashley Cole has been insinuated to be a Homosexual. Does that offend all homosexuals to imply that he could be one?
 
Righteous indignation should only be justified by those who are targets of intentional malice and hostility. To be offended on their behalf is just as belittling and demeaning. If you find a homosexual to post their opinion of the offending material and can justify that the joke was intended to hurt gay people then fine by me. otherwise please, get a life and stay off the Internet if you are that easily offended.
END RANT/
 
Spot on.
If you cant take the piss out of a footballer (the worlds biggest c*nt) for something as meaningless as being gay then you really would be quite boring at a football match.
Thats why the Fever (and football) is losing its "heart" but thats for another day...
 
 
She wore a yellow ribbon
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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Right � I am going to say my 2 cents worth.

 

I have a number of black friends (I went on a stag do to Prague a few years ago, where I was the only white person out of 12 � they called me 'token' for the weekend), a number of asian friends (I work in IT) and a number of gay friends (I have been hit on in the queue to GAY club in London, screamed at Kylie with the best of them at the Pride Festival � where I had to 'come out' � and beat a 6 foot 4 transvestite called Silk in a screaming contest to win a years membership to a gay club in Singapore).  I guess I am trying to say that I am pretty tolerant to both people with the gay and people with the colour.

 

In the last week or so on this site, I have been called racist, homophobic and misogynistic (although I have no idea why that last one was levelled at me), but the bottom line is I can sleep at night.  I make jokes all the time with these friends that I have � some funny, many not � and they don't get offended.  What bothers me is when other people (who as far as I know are not of a different race than me, or gay) decide that these jokes are offensive these people I know.  What gives you the right to decide what offends a gay person?

 

I am f**king sick of people of complain incessantly about anything they see or hear � people who watch a whole programme on TV and then write a letter stating how offensive they found it.  If you find it offensive, don't watch it.  Simple as that.  It is the same with this thread - I don't go on the Liverpool thread because I find that offensive and I suggest that everyone who is offended by the contents of this thread stays clear from here.  If you don't find some things funny, what is the point of stating that?  Are you the type of people who shout out in movie theatres about how boring the film is?  Of course not, but you think everyone wants to hear that you don't find a joke funny on a website.  Why?

 

I hope some of this makes sense.  Right, I am going to find a black guy f**king a Chinese guy in the ass, so I can make jokes about them until they cry.

All I do is make the stuff I would've liked
Reference things I wanna watch, reference girls I wanna bite
Now I'm firefly like a burning kite
And yousa fake fuck like a fleshlight

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Right! so why do the mods delete peoples' posts?! if you don't like the thread/post don't f**king read it! or am I missing something...yes I am being facetious but that argument is bung - if something offends you, you tend to write/say something about it, it's called discourse and if an internet forum isn't the place for it i don't where is

you can't have it both ways - "I should be able to write anything, f**k off if it offends you - don't read it"

"hey, don't complain about what I write!"

if you don't like the complaints, don't read the complaints you hypocrite
Cosimo2008-04-04 22:18:19
I like tautologies because I like them.
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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
no idea - I'm not a mod

All I do is make the stuff I would've liked
Reference things I wanna watch, reference girls I wanna bite
Now I'm firefly like a burning kite
And yousa fake fuck like a fleshlight

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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

yeah i just realised after I posted, sorry for that
I like tautologies because I like them.
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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Frankie Mac wrote:

Right � I am going to say my 2 cents worth.

 

I have a number of black friends (I went on a stag do to Prague a few years ago, where I was the only white person out of 12 � they called me 'token' for the weekend), a number of asian friends (I work in IT) and a number of gay friends (I have been hit on in the queue to GAY club in London, screamed at Kylie with the best of them at the Pride Festival � where I had to 'come out' � and beat a 6 foot 4 transvestite called Silk in a screaming contest to win a years membership to a gay club in Singapore).  I guess I am trying to say that I am pretty tolerant to both people with the gay and people with the colour.

 

In the last week or so on this site, I have been called racist, homophobic and misogynistic (although I have no idea why that last one was levelled at me), but the bottom line is I can sleep at night.  I make jokes all the time with these friends that I have � some funny, many not � and they don't get offended.  What bothers me is when other people (who as far as I know are not of a different race than me, or gay) decide that these jokes are offensive these people I know.  What gives you the right to decide what offends a gay person?

 

I am f**king sick of people of complain incessantly about anything they see or hear � people who watch a whole programme on TV and then write a letter stating how offensive they found it.  If you find it offensive, don't watch it.  Simple as that.  It is the same with this thread - I don't go on the Liverpool thread because I find that offensive and I suggest that everyone who is offended by the contents of this thread stays clear from here.  If you don't find some things funny, what is the point of stating that?  Are you the type of people who shout out in movie theatres about how boring the film is?  Of course not, but you think everyone wants to hear that you don't find a joke funny on a website.  Why?

 

I hope some of this makes sense.  Right, I am going to find a black guy f**king a Chinese guy in the ass, so I can make jokes about them until they cry.

 
Frankie   One Frankie Mac,theres only one Frankie Mac...too much of this in the Fever,thought we had it sorted, but unfortunately reflects society today as a whole with too many idiotic people feeling they have to say something.
 
Having been to Leeds and West Ham games, Im sure you would be the one telling everyone to stop swearing or mentioning the "Yids"...Leeds and West Ham are some of the nicest supporters you will ever meet.... 
She wore a yellow ribbon
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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Cosimo wrote:

Right! so why do the mods delete peoples' posts?! if you don't like the thread/post don't f**king read it! or am I missing something...yes I am being facetious but that argument is bung - if something offends you, you tend to write/say something about it, it's called discourse and if an internet forum isn't the place for it i don't where isyou can't have it both ways - "I should be able to write anything, f**k off if it offends you - don't read it""hey, don't complain about what I write!"if you don't like the complaints, don't read the complaints you hypocrite



I was thinking about this very matter 2 days ago, believing that, because of the nature of this thread, someone would post something that a Mod would likely decide required the censorship button.

Largely, I agree with Cosimo on this - I don't actually believe shutting down conversation will do much to bring out such a topic into the open.

However, in defence of moderators a function they fulfill is preventing a relativist situation in which people can claim 'everyone's position is valid'. For advocates of the relativist orientation, it is worth considering how internally contradictory their position is.

On one hand relativism is built on the proposition that "there are no universal truths', yet they qualify this with what they frame as a universal truth (ie 'everyone's position is valid')! Hopefully you see the self contradiction.

Thus society should, in my view, not support relativism and indeed has to make some decision about it's core values. In this instance I think 'inclusion' and 'tolerance' might be worth considering. And perhaps that is what morivated the moderator.

Perhaps the moderators can come up with 2/3 generic statements to chose from, explaining why the post was removed and put it in plae of the 'offending' post? (I have no idea if this is practical, and it may already be covered in the small print).

Have a great day everyone!

    HarryHotspur2008-04-05 10:43:04
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almost 18 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

I totally believe that the moderators should delete stuff - that's my point, that some things ARE offensive to some people, and that's never gonna change. This is a public forum, it's all about context - I say dodgy as stuff with my mates, but that's cos I know they won't be offended.

I guess it's hard working out levels of offensiveness
Cosimo2008-04-05 13:19:58
I like tautologies because I like them.
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