Western Sahara
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Western Sahara is a classic case of world corporations seizing
resources and bending international law. The people of the region
have never had a say in their fate, and Morrocco offered the best
deal to resource strippers.
And sadly NZ plays its part in this. Something like 95% of our phosphate imports , labelled Moroccan, actually come from Western Sahara. I know I am repeating myself here but in a letter from Phil Goff he said that Morocco's extraction of the phosphate was illegal but our buying it, from Morocco, wasn't.
As for Irian Jaya isn't it interesting how little BOTH NZ and Australia have say about Indonesia's presence there. That silence is our shame.
As for Irian Jaya isn't it� interesting how little BOTH NZ and Australia have say about Indonesia's presence there. That silence is our shame.
Sadly Australia/NZ have a tradition of silence when it comes to Indonesia and its 'Dirty little Wars'.
While the British continue to sell their fighter planes.
Did it have anything to do with the fact that they were designated
'training' aircraft?
below are just a few of these issues
- children being killed by neglectful parents
- children killing other children
- dogs mauling children
- children doing drugs
and another... you probably missed this one...
- NZ farmers stealing $125million a year of phosphate from Western Sahara
We should clean pur backyard...
...Amazing as they are in a position to make things happen. but don't worry because Hone is more worried about the Abo's.
I know you don't mean it in that context, but I should warn you just to help you avoid any future trouble should you head across the ditch - "Abo" is a racist slur, and a rather bad one (on the racist scale, it's much closer to the N-word than "cheeky darkie"). Stick to Aboriginal/Aborigine, or if in NSW use Koori.
That being said, I agree with your points - it's a universal problem that affects every community, and nobody should be silent on any of these issues. I'd rather our community leaders challenge us tpo stomp out the problem rather than sweep it under the rug and pretend it doesn't exist.
why don't people worry about some of these issues IN OUR OWN COUNTRY
before we go worrying about other countries that DON"T EVEN KNOW WE
EXIST!
I guess I see my citizenship as global rather than being limited to NZs fair shores.
below are just a few of these issues
- children being killed by neglectful parents
- children killing other children
- dogs mauling children
- children doing drugs
and another... you probably missed this one...
- NZ farmers stealing $125million a year of phosphate from Western Sahara
We should clean pur backyard...
oh well, if stealing that $125 million saves our farmers from going broke then i'm willing to sacrifice that. i wonder how many people would put your concerns about phosphate ahead of my concerns about KIWIS DIEING........
if you wanna save them, leave NZ and go help them (not picking a fight just making a point)
I admire your passion for this subject, but to directly imply NZ, as a country, is complicit in/to this process is bollocks. Its a dog eat dog world and i'm a firm believer in "by whatever means neccesary" so in this case i DO condone theft.
we have different points of view, which is ok.
i'll start worrying about that which is illustrated when all the
problems within MY country are solved. Until then, the impact on me
personally is non-existent. However, people I went to school with
are being killed hundreds of METRES from where I live, that impacts
me and will impact me till the day I die.
ethics should be applied everywhere, it is a dog eat dog world and that's why it's so important.
just because it doesn't impact you personally doesn't mean it's not a relevant topic of discussion - i'm sure you watched the news when the twin towers got hit
Cosimo2008-01-28 13:39:28
Question: are we the ones actually doing the steaing? or are we
just puirchasing stolen goods?[/QUOTE]
I had a fascinating letter, some years ago, from Robin Cook in
which he tried to explain how the "ethical foreign policy" allowed
Britain to continue those sales. Shame I now longer have it
because it was remarakble in its economy with reality.
Western Sahara
in response to a PM about my avatar. The pic a reference to the
Polisario who are trying to win independence for Western
Sahara.
This link - http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/ian_williams/2008/01/practising_what_you_preach.html
gives an idea of where things are just at the moment. NZ is involved in that we import $125 million a year of pillaged phosphate from the region.
This link - http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/ian_williams/2008/01/practising_what_you_preach.html
gives an idea of where things are just at the moment. NZ is involved in that we import $125 million a year of pillaged phosphate from the region.
No
country recognises Moroccan ownership of the territory, not least
since a long series of UN resolutions in the general assembly and
the security council have declared that the people of the former
Spanish colony of western Sahara should be allowed to determine
their own fate. Morocco quibbled, and got the UN to ask the
International Court of Justice to rule on the issue in 1974. The
court ruled against Morocco and said there should be an act of
self-determination
dairyflat2008-01-21 11:05:29
Well...I'm glad we cleared that up then.
Always wondered what happened to Spanish Sahara.
Closer to home, West Papua/Irian Jaya is still occupied by
Indonesia.
The local Indonesians born since 1961 know no
difference.
This has the potential to flare up big time as minerals and
oil are at stake and the locals appear to be getting organised
again. However, they are up against 25,000 troops.
Western Sahara is a classic case of world corporations seizing
resources and bending international law. The people of the region
have never had a say in their fate, and Morrocco offered the best
deal to resource strippers.
Er, politicans splitting up the spoils...just like the Electoral Finance Act.
And sadly NZ plays its part in this. Something like 95% of our phosphate imports , labelled Moroccan, actually come from Western Sahara. I know I am repeating myself here but in a letter from Phil Goff he said that Morocco's extraction of the phosphate was illegal but our buying it, from Morocco, wasn't.
As for Irian Jaya isn't it interesting how little BOTH NZ and Australia have say about Indonesia's presence there. That silence is our shame.
Yeah but everyone knows Phil Goff is a limp wristed politician who
will say anything that might get him a vote. Trouble is for all his
rhetoric, he never actually does anything!
Thanks for the heads-up on that Dairy, an interesting point of
topic.
As for Irian Jaya isn't it� interesting how little BOTH NZ and Australia have say about Indonesia's presence there. That silence is our shame.
Sadly Australia/NZ have a tradition of silence when it comes to Indonesia and its 'Dirty little Wars'.
While the British continue to sell their fighter planes.
I had a fascinating letter, some years ago, from Robin Cook in
which he tried to explain how the "ethical foreign policy" allowed
Britain to continue those sales. Shame I now longer have it
because it was remarakble in its economy with reality.
In another he explained how Britain, which had
sold artillery to Morocco on the express condition that it
would not be used in Western Sahara, would supply spare parts
for the same guns. Morocco was in breach of the condition. Britain
supplied the parts because they would be "breaching" their contract
if they didn't. Naive me thought that Morocco had already
invalidated the contract by breaching the
conditions...
Did it have anything to do with the fact that they were designated
'training' aircraft?
Of course, what they may have not mentioned is the missiles 'trained' on the people of Timor l'est, that were carried under the wings.
Of course, what they may have not mentioned is the missiles 'trained' on the people of Timor l'est, that were carried under the wings.
Yep, it did. That's the case.
Could we send Ahmed Zowie over to Morroco to sort it out? we could
then invalidate his passport once he'd gone through their airport.
why don't people worry about some of these issues IN OUR OWN
COUNTRY before we go worrying about other countries that DON"T EVEN
KNOW WE EXIST!
below are just a few of these issues
- children being killed by neglectful parents
- children killing other children
- dogs mauling children
- children doing drugs
maybe tend to the grass in our own backyard instead of trying to take care of the lawn at the
big house down the street.
Barber212008-01-25 16:47:30
below are just a few of these issues
- children being killed by neglectful parents
- children killing other children
- dogs mauling children
- children doing drugs
maybe tend to the grass in our own backyard instead of trying to take care of the lawn at the
big house down the street.
Barber212008-01-25 16:47:30
below are just a few of these issues
- children being killed by neglectful parents
- children killing other children
- dogs mauling children
- children doing drugs
and another... you probably missed this one...
- NZ farmers stealing $125million a year of phosphate from Western Sahara
We should clean pur backyard...
Barbar you raise an interesting point.
Hone Harawera flew to Aussie, abused their Goverment for their
alleged treatment of Abo's, He came back home and then abused our
Police over the crap that went on up in the BOP and the training
camps. Yet he (& the Maori party in general) was amazingly
silent when it surfaced about the number of child deaths,
molestations etc that had become a major problem amongst
maori.
Leading by example? Silence is golden? Obviously this is
not just a Maori problem in our country but a universal problem.
Yet the people with the highest percentage have continually refused
to comment or do anything about it. Amazing as they are in a
position to make things happen. but don't worry because Hone is
more worried about the Abo's.
Lonegunmen2008-01-26 14:09:12
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10455617
Maori Party MP Hone Harawira has launched an
outspoken attack on a "cycle of violence" which he says is
brutalising Maori society.
dairyflat2008-01-26 15:47:28
Cheers, that one didn't get a mention anywhere else. Hone copped a lot of bad publicity around the time of his Abo cruisade for the lack of effort in this sad but true fact of life. Thanks Dairy.
I still think your point about the Sahara is a valid one.
Hone Harawera flew to Aussie, abused their Goverment for their
alleged treatment of Abo's...
...Amazing as they are in a position to make things happen. but don't worry because Hone is more worried about the Abo's.
I know you don't mean it in that context, but I should warn you just to help you avoid any future trouble should you head across the ditch - "Abo" is a racist slur, and a rather bad one (on the racist scale, it's much closer to the N-word than "cheeky darkie"). Stick to Aboriginal/Aborigine, or if in NSW use Koori.
That being said, I agree with your points - it's a universal problem that affects every community, and nobody should be silent on any of these issues. I'd rather our community leaders challenge us tpo stomp out the problem rather than sweep it under the rug and pretend it doesn't exist.
why don't people worry about some of these issues IN OUR OWN COUNTRY
before we go worrying about other countries that DON"T EVEN KNOW WE
EXIST!
I guess I see my citizenship as global rather than being limited to NZs fair shores.
Aussie politicians to fix Aussie problems Robb, Kiwi politicians to
fix Kiwi problems.
I don't remember saying otherwise LG :-S
You didn't, I was making a point at Hone Harawera.
Looks like I got too much sun today haha. Yes, Hawawera should
focus on the problems at home.
On a broader note, th issues at home need addressing. The people of
this country want them fixed and have some good ideas. Politicians
stall it so they can get themselves some good publicity. Perhaps
some of the 8 billion dollar surplus could help resolve some
issues.
Except that colonial impact on indigenous peoples is a global
phenomena. Therefore, some solidarity between people fighting such
causes around the world is hardly to be unexpected. Presumably this
demands taking an interest in other contexts around the world (and
having an opinion on them)?
below are just a few of these issues
- children being killed by neglectful parents
- children killing other children
- dogs mauling children
- children doing drugs
and another... you probably missed this one...
- NZ farmers stealing $125million a year of phosphate from Western Sahara
We should clean pur backyard...
oh well, if stealing that $125 million saves our farmers from going broke then i'm willing to sacrifice that. i wonder how many people would put your concerns about phosphate ahead of my concerns about KIWIS DIEING........
if you wanna save them, leave NZ and go help them (not picking a fight just making a point)
My concerns are not about phosphates. That was an illustration of
the global village that we live in. NZ is a long way from Western
Sahara. Yet,even so , we are complicit in a process that has
kept then people of Western Sahara dispossessed, and in refugee
camps, for thirty years
So you condone theft?
i'll start worrying about that which is illustrated when all the
problems within MY country are solved. Until then, the impact on me
personally is non-existent. However, people I went to school with
are being killed hundreds of METRES from where I live, that impacts
me and will impact me till the day I die.
I admire your passion for this subject, but to directly imply NZ, as a country, is complicit in/to this process is bollocks. Its a dog eat dog world and i'm a firm believer in "by whatever means neccesary" so in this case i DO condone theft.
we have different points of view, which is ok.
I admire your passion for this subject, but to directly imply NZ, as a country, is complicit in/to this process is bollocks. Its a dog eat dog world and i'm a firm believer in "by whatever means neccesary" so in this case i DO condone theft.
we have different points of view, which is ok.
Question: are we the ones actually doing the steaing? or are we
just puirchasing stolen goods?
I admire your passion for this subject, but to directly imply NZ, as a country, is complicit in/to this process is bollocks. Its a dog eat dog world and i'm a firm believer in "by whatever means neccesary" so in this case i DO condone theft.
we have different points of view, which is ok.
ethics should be applied everywhere, it is a dog eat dog world and that's why it's so important.
just because it doesn't impact you personally doesn't mean it's not a relevant topic of discussion - i'm sure you watched the news when the twin towers got hit
Cosimo2008-01-28 13:39:28
We buy the stolen goods KNOWINGLY. In the letter that I
have from Phil Goff it says that NZ considers Morocco's
mining to be illegal but our buying from them is not.
I suppose the question that can be asked is knowngly buying
stolen goods theft?
For clarity [quote]New Zealand imported goods (primarily
phosphates) to the value of NZ$125 million in the year to December
2005. Morocco is New
Zealand�s main source of
phosphates, making up 80% of New
Zealand�s phosphate
imports.
Source: MFAT90% of that comes from mines at Bou Craa in Western Sahara.
MFAT knows that but stilll refers to the imports as being from
Morocco.
Ok, so we are making a purchase of good we KNOW are stolen - according to Mr Goff. Seems a bit off, but at the end of the day business seems to operate on this degree of separation thing, if we are not bying it off the people who stole the goods, but a middle man so to speak, then its gotta be ok?
In another he explained how Britain, which had
sold artillery to Morocco on the express condition that it
would not be used in Western Sahara, would supply spare parts
for the same guns. Morocco was in breach of the condition. Britain
supplied the parts because they would be "breaching" their contract
if they didn't. Naive me thought that Morocco had already
invalidated the contract by breaching the
conditions...
Reminds me of that infamous Maggie Thatcher quote when she
claimed there were 'reasonable people' in the Khmer Rouge to
justify Britain equipping and training one of the most
vicious and murderous armies in world history.
Buying stolen goods involves financially supporting those who steal
them. The profit they make from that $125 million allows Morocco to
invest in continuing/exanding their mining operations.
http://nz.youtube.com/watch?v=GMholJ4G9MI&feature=related
Norwegaian clip showing phosphate being unloaded in NZ. The vessel "Bulk Saturn" arrived New Zealand end of June 2007, carrying phosphates from Moroccan occupied Western Sahara.
Down in Bluff.
Norwegaian clip showing phosphate being unloaded in NZ. The vessel "Bulk Saturn" arrived New Zealand end of June 2007, carrying phosphates from Moroccan occupied Western Sahara.
Down in Bluff.
That's it Dairyflat, keep up the cause and get it some attention.
It's election year, perhaps a good opportunity to e-mail
politicians?
Dome more than that. We've had a few face to face meetings. Some
questions in the house but nothing has really moved...
Next time we do something public I'll let you all know. No... no... don't thank me. It'll be my pleasure....
Next time we do something public I'll let you all know. No... no... don't thank me. It'll be my pleasure....
After the way half the country sucked up to Zowie whom I believe
should not have even left the terminal before being shipped back,
maybe this cause is a much more worthy one. From what you have
said, questions need to be asked and answered by those
participants. Lonegunmen2008-01-29 19:44:14