Mainland Juniors (please play nice)

all I can say is that we went to auckland, there was no comparable competition here. We beat mid canterbury 23-1, 2 weeks earlier and aoraki 10-0 as well(semi finialists at nelson I believe). We were competitive in auckland losing only twice 2-0 against winners, but there was still a gap.. Boys 

had a blast and learnt heaps about tournament play and whats required to catch up. By taking our elite players to club tournaments is a huge benefit to our club and opens up spaces for others in north canterbury. As for SI tournaments why are many north island playersnot going to these tournaments but going

 to club tournaments instead. Many coaches from the top sides in our grade down here I spoke to post tournament agree with what we do.

Interesting the 23-1 scoreline - what grade was that as would be interesting to talk to a friend of mine from Mid Canterbury re that scoreline

If that happened to your side then I would suggest that the coach of the team that was teasing yours was completely out of their depth with kids as that sort of behaviour is simply unacceptable and ANY half competent teacher would immediately be able to stamp down on that and discipline the children - maybe a good example of the fact that coaching qualifications when it comes to children are not the be all and end all. 

Have seen that sort of stuff myself at games and so called expert coaches with all the qualifications totally fail to stamp down on it. How you win is, in life, more important than the winning as later on these kids will enter jobs (not football) where they don't win, or if they do, certain codes of behaviour are expected - better to learn now than later on. 

However I do see the sense of your club v club argument.

under 10. Feel free. And to add our goalie played up front with 2 left feet and we missed 3 penalties

you are very correct re qualifications. Any body can sit a test but not everybody has the intelligence and abilty to pass that on to others in a competent and creative manner. Many skills in life are learnt from those with a passion not a piece of paper. Great craftmen often  have greater skills than tradesmen

you are very correct re qualifications. Any body can sit a test but not everybody has the intelligence and abilty to pass that on to others in a competent and creative manner. Many skills in life are learnt from those with a passion not a piece of paper. Great craftmen often  have greater skills than tradesmen

I agree - 2 statements here from true greats;

1. This madness is only exacerbated by the maniacal parents on the touchline spouting nonsense at their children. The competitive nature of most mums and dads is astounding. The fear they instil in our promising but sensitive Johnny is utterly depressing. We need a parental cultural revolution. If we could just get them to shut the fuck up and let their children enjoy themselves, you would be staggered at the difference it would make.

Having four boys myself, I have stood on the sidelines of countless games, spanning many years. Oh, the drivel I have heard, the abuse I have witnessed, the damage I have seen done. Promising young players barked at by clueless dad. “Don’t mess with it there.” “Just kick it.” “Stop fucking about.” I could go on. I have seen a father pick his son up by the scruff of the neck and yell in his face: “You’ll never make it playing that crap.”

Occasionally, I’ve intervened and expressed my view that they are being a hindrance. The reactions have varied from acknowledgement and genuine interest to complete disgust that I should stick my nose in.

Incidentally, I never shouted anything other than encouragement from a touchline . . . to both teams. My father was generally reserved on the touchline but he did lose it once after I swore at a referee when I was about 14. He got the coach to take me off. I learned a lesson that day.

Some of the academies around the country have introduced a rule that parents must be quiet and only applaud. This has allowed talented young players to express themselves on the field, to take people on, to try a trick, all without the dreaded, predictable rubbish cascading into their ears. This is a very good thing. Who cares who wins an under-eights game? Who cares if a youngster makes a mistake? It’s how we learn.

2. Come and see my coaching certificates - they're called the European Cup and league championships,

The North Canterbury 15 Boys had a great time at the SIT in Timaru, they thoroughly enjoyed it and had some great games: one which I saw made the drive to Timaru well worth it. As far as I know 4 of them don't play for Waimak. 

very true on the parents on sidelines. Mums the worst from what I have seen. While in auckland it seemed the loud mums made a point of standing well away from game in veiwing distance. 

I have to be honest and say as a coach I am loud from sideline but only positive, never abusive and very happy to compliment opposition especially goalies.

I  however will rev up my players if they cry show attitude to opposition on losing as I think there needs to be respect for there win.

the hardest team I have ever coach was one with three other ex player dads who grew up in the long ball days. Im trying to ask the players to relax enjoy the ball and play it out, whilst the dads were panicking the boys to put there foot through it. Yes theres a time and place for that but not at 9,10 or 11 years old.

all that we are doing at waimak is giving choice to our players. in the end as the opportunities have arrived this season going north has been well supported and will probanly continue to be. I am just going to confirm though that at 9/10/11 the south is a long way behind as a group. The odd team will match it but very few

Have heard rumblings about overage players and the coach not covering himself with glory on the last day?

hi dougie. Quick update now only 6 of the 10 are playing for me over the summer. You were correct that I would struggle to get all of them but 8 kids still wanted to play but the parents decided they needed a break from taking there boys to the same sport and I think thats great. Sadly though with what is happening out there in elite sport they may fall behind as there is a real push for elite football year round if the player wants it and the grounds do suit better play over the summer if watered. However it should only be if the players wants it not mum and dad.

lets keep kidz in sport and out of court. And away from technolog

Whos at the age periodisation presentation tonight? Looks a very interesting topic that should not be only sport based.

On the plus side their cricket may improve

maybe. Hasn't helped my boy at cricket. Junior cricket is nearly as painful to watch as junoor rugby.

No need to fly unless you're a jaffa, just hop on The Orbiter or number 125 Metro bus.

I thought a LFC fan would have more wits about them to get sucked in by the mention of a blackball [remember those lollies] filled ground.

Was chatting to my boss in Sydney last week. His son who is 12 is a promising footballer in Sydney and plays for one of the (I think he said) 18 Premier League Clubs in Sydney. These are clubs who have top teams in the top Sydney League and try to run a similar programme down the grades starting at 12 year old. So the idea is that each club has a top team for each age group upto 18yrs and they play in a competition with the other sides. I think that was the gist of it, i may have some of those details wrong, but the one thing I didn't get wrong was the cost.

If his son gets selected in the top 12th grade team for his club, the parents have to pay AUD$2500 for the season! 

He was saying the clubs all employ coaches and these guys are paid somewhere in the $20k a year bracket to coach and the remaining $15k or so is spent on paying for club expenses. As an aside even a little kid pays around $300 for his/her football for the season. One of the issues they have there is the lack of quality coaches, this system they run requires decent numbers of coaches and he was saying some of them in it for the money and have little idea.

If selected he needs to commit to 3 trainings a week for 10 months of the year. My boss was saying it's highly political (how surprising, sounds like NZ!) and that often Committee members kids and sponsors kids get picked as of right with little thought to their actual talent. He also said that counts a number of kids out whose families simply can't afford it.

He also said AFL is making big waves into the Sydney school market as their subs for the season are $45 and you get a ball and backpack with that as well.

$2500 for 120 sessions

Cheaper Han tennis, dearer than football in Chch.

Jeez - do people more than NZD$3k on kids tennis lessons here?

I know of parents spending $3k a year on dance lessons/music lessons and upwards of 5k a year on riding/eventing lessons (not including the price of the horse). Sport/extra curriculars arent cheap!

Quite right Gings - Plenty $$ going into professional dance / music schools, and people happy (and guess able) to pay this for a quality product. So why the resistance in New Zealand when it comes to football?

Shit really? I guess some of those sports have always had typical barriers to entry, especially individual sports, but football has never really been like that...

.......And therefore we've never been any good at it either.

Parents don't teach their kids music or dance; they pay others better qualified.

NZF on the other hand expects Clubs to get parents along to coaching courses and turn them into a "qualified" coach in a one-afternoon session and away we go. Tick the box, KPIs met. 

Mainland makes it compulsory but few clubs are fooled into thinking it is doing a fantastic job in upskilling "coaches". The thought of if/how to cross-credit UEFA coaching badges has not even been considered..

In the meantime, private providers are considered the bad boys in town. Not because they are no good at what they are doing but because they make it difficult for the Federation to compete in an environment where players (=clients) chose what suits them best and what value they get in return for their $$. Then they take the choice away, or at the least make it harder, by stipulating no FTC=no NTC.      

You make a good point, i guess I was looking at numbers, if I paid $3k or $5k for dance, music lessons I think I would expect some one-on-one time which is clearly necessary in those disciplines as opposed to a group of 10-12 kids getting group coaching and paying $3k for it, or the example in Aus where 16 kids pay $2500, making it worth $40k per team. Hard to compare i think, apples and oranges and all that.

No issues with user pays, i just question the amount and whether that is too high a barrier to entry for some families.

I have no experience with Private Providers nor FTC so can't comment on that.

The Clubs bear some responsibility in upskilling their Coaching base. Mainlands directive that all D1 have Youth 2 (?) level accreditation is IMO fair as to pass the course it is assumed that the candidate must have some idea of football above entry level. I don't read the decision to enforce coaching accreditation as subterfuge to cover the current coaching inadequacies. Personally I have had 'better' coaching at the Club but this is most likely down to the FDO actually been interested in sharing information. 

It's also true that some Private Providers have lesser coaches than what Mainland provide through FTC. Maybe a stronger influence would be what is in the curriculum? People also make choices on $ the other way... This coaching program is more costly, therefore it must be better. As you indicate "they pay others better qualified", without always being informed enough to make a critical selection between competing providers. 

To use the Music lessons example I am 100% clear to all prospective students/families that they will be learning Music Theory. Yet people choose to not do this because it is not fun. Apparently. They will still get music lessons for the same cost or more but for sure it will not be better.

No FTC/No NTC, if FTC is the best program then it follows that all NTC players will be drawn from there. It would be fair to say that this could presently be a moot point!

Yup. Way over that. Some fly their child to play Inter-Club in Auckland each weekend....

not uncommon in auckland junior tennis to pay $15k a year according to somrthing I heard on radio sport.

Bugger me we are still crap at tennis as well. 

Maybe be tapping into the can afford/affluent market you are missing the real stars. In Brazil, Argentina the greats come from the streets and most of the english players hard come from hard working class families who really want it.

As for coaches, I dont care if they have a piece of paper(good on them for upskilling) but a qualifiacation doesn't mean you can coach at all.

Want is interesting in mainland is that the pathway for those in private provider coaching is seemingly blocked to ntc qualif

Kaizen setting up shop in Nelson, supported by Nelson falcons youth; plus news of academy tournament in Wellington coming up involving falcons, kaizen, Ole and CCM Academy teams. 

Kaizen news

By the way am i right in thinking that Top of the South Football Inc (who presumably run Falcons) are an incorporated society and have no legal connection with Nelson Bays Football?

NZF do their best to ignore this talent until they are 17 and past FTC age. Then it's a free for all and the best players will get NZ opportunities irrespective of Private Provider or National pathway. By then some will already have left NZ and be playing overseas. Of those most if not all will have come out of PP pathways and not FTC/NTC.

So chose your poison and run with it.

Kaizen vs Paul Ifill?

Kaizen/Nelson Marlborough Falcons vs Ifill academy vs Mainland's FTC/NTC?

Football kids = $$$

He is also a superstar and a loverly fellah.  Lucky us in Nelson!!