Mainland Premier League (Part 1)

But every other first division game went ahead.

Well that makes it even more strange then doesn't it?

> Several thousand turning up at games to watch a Keith
> display would help all clubs bar takings.

I have no problem with Keith's passion for the game either. The fact you think it's the only thing worth turning up to a game for says more about the quality of football???

Iain Glover's certainly regarded as one of the better referee assessors and he is helping to cultivate a new generation of referees coming up through the ranks. Give it time, be supportive. I know many of the referees and they are extremely passionate about the game and don't like making a single mistake. A referee typically makes 1500 judgements in a single game compared to a striker's 10-20 shots at goal and get a far, far higher proportion of decisions right.

It's interesting seeing the fans' perspective on refereeing. Great to see some supportive. Disappointing that there are very few constructive comments about how to improve the standard or recruit more referees. Certainly the attitudes of the fans in such a small town are going to inhibit recruitment.

I am a referee and I will probably get my arse kicked for posting on here. But them's the breaks.

Refs need a better incentive to do it, that's my opinion.

Do refs get paid?

An issue is regardless of the standard of referring some people think it is OK and acceptable to act like an intimidating prick.

If this is not addressed why would anyone want to be a ref?

And despite Mainland's better late than never effort last week, I had to endure idiot parents/supporters in a Junior Game on Saturday. If kids have no respect for the ref at 11/12 years of age when will they learn it? And if their parents think their sideline behavior is acceptable how can we expect their lil' darlings to not copy?

Maybe we need some heavy sanctions to finally get some people to pull their heads in.

"Several thousand turning up at games to watch a Keith display would help all clubs bar taking"

Can't agree with this:the majority of people go to watch football,not coaches make dicks of themselves...KB is merely an unnecessary sideshow...

Sorry to interupt with a random question.  Apparently the Asia Pacific Football Academy lads play games against men down there in Chch.  Does anyone know whether they have a team entered in one of the Mainland leagues or are they just arranging friendlies?

Some of them play for Selwyn in the developement league (PDL). Think they had at least 5 or 6 in the Selwyn squad when they played Western, they lost 5 nil and there was only one i would say was good enough but they were playing against slightly older players. I would say there are better players in the canterbury academy team that play in that league.

LOL - I'll let the old man that he is still thought highly of.

Unfortunately he's pretty borked, so as Mithrandir said, he is now just able to do assessing. Glad to see he is doing well. I'll have to make sure to tell him that when I'm down, and then pinch his beer

Just going back to the refs, personally I think the standard is pretty poor, most have little experience playing and as a result a lot of common sence goes out the window with things such as playing the advantage or recognising when a situation has potential to flare up and when something is just handbags at dawn. However theirs no excuse for some of the abuse that they receive (I've been guilty of it a few times myself) and you do wonder why they give up their weekends to get sh*t off people. Alternatively as a youngster I remember giving lip to a ref and being told that if I didn't shut the F@#* up that he would lay the head on me so maybe they could try that on the referee courses.

Wow, double discussions. What does it mean?

1) I bloody love refs. I don't hassle them, I do appeal, and generally they are good natured and do a good job.

2) So some of the footballing elite and rich (as it must cost a packet to do it) go to this Uni and never play a real game. I heard that Mainland also have a girls team who never play a competitive game either. Just train and play friendlies. Oh, and then there's the Mainland academy team....

Yeah they played a couple of them against tech in pdl on the weekend. Couple tidy players in there. I rate a few of them.

Personally I'm always being told to stop harassing the ref. With the sudden attention football has been getting in this country lately though more refs will start coming through and more people who give up playing the sport will hopefully take up refereeing too. I only play at Pres A level (until we win the comp next week and get promoted to Div 6 ) but when my playing time is up I'll definitely start doing the ref thing. I've done it a handful of times and actually quite enjoy it.

Sure do.

Yea? They beat Tech reserves at the weekend. Not that Selwyn should be playing in the PDL at all, they should have been in Div 1 for goodness sake.

Luis Garcia asked if refs get paid. I think they all do get paid it is a matter of how much. I understand the clubs have to pay $120 for officials at Mainland games which equates to $40 per person or $30 if a fourth official is provided. In Nelson referees receive payment that equates to petrol money and a beer - about $25 per game.

JTP12011-07-11 21:30:43

Coey Turipa, former Suburb, is the only South Islander in the NZ U20 squad. Is there no one from Canterbury good enough to make the squad? I find that very odd. Any of you guys have a outstanding young gun, or is the talent drying up?

Not sure why you feel I should be compelled to give an explanation (mind you with several thousand posts up I wouldn't bother trolling through them to check on the topic either ) but any way here goes -

Hoary old chestnut. I believe that the "PDL" league should revert to being the reserve league of the MPL clubs. The majority of clubs in the PDL have no idea or commitment to player development anyway so to call it that is a complete misnomer imho. Ronaldoknow2011-07-11 22:18:03

Tristan Nicol, Sam Miles spring to mind. There would be several others (Tane Gent) well worth a look given Mainland's performance in the national Youth League over the past couple of years. Bombay Hills mentality, smacks of players in and around Dorkland where it is easier to gather for training/matches as a group being one of the criteria for selection. Nelson would certainly have some other good potential candidates as well.

That's all well and good but a clubs first team should actually be in the MPL or Division 1, like Mid Cant, Waimak, Parklands etc. They would develop just as well if not even quicker in those leagues.

And not make the PDL a 15 team, play each other once, and have a bye league.

Exactly. Player development my arse. A bye in a player development league? Since when was a bye good for a players development? Oxymoronic farce. Ronaldoknow2011-07-11 22:46:54

Let's go back to the Chelsea/Everton/Mainland academy banter. That was interesting. How long do you think they will all last? And how good is it for football? I say not much to both.

Same story with pap redwood and probably one or 2 others. If you dont have a team in Div 1 or MPL why should you be allowed in PDL?
gings2011-07-11 23:24:38

They had 5 players in the NZ U17 World Cup team.  More than any other "club".  Would those players have made it anyway?  I dunno.  But it must be good for their development that players of that quality are training together constantly. 

The Everton Academy/Canterbury School of Football setups epitomise the downside of player development. Clubs are the backbone of the sport in this country and for years they have been told they need to focus more on player development rather than senior mens 1st team results (I agree with this). What pisses me off is the fact that Mainland, instead of concentrating on assisting clubs to develop player development programmes then went and set one up in complete opposition to local clubs then tried to attract the best players away from their own constituent clubs, how bad is that. they even got offside with NZ Football over it. Everton academy is not the same but still one guys idea of how he can do it better than everyone else. No surprise they had 5 in the U17's when they scour the country for the best players, complete farce when they behave like that. Similar with Rufers Wynrs academy, self interested and does nothing for the sport overall, creates division and petty mindedness whereas John Herdman's Whole of Football plan is the best thing to happen for the game locally in a long long time. Why? Because it is player focused and club based. the next thing they need to do is address the issue of the cost of playing then we will see genuine real progress in the game, where we are not only capable of getting the odd result at elite level but real contenders for age group titles.

They can't get competitive games as they aren't a club. All hell would break lose if Mainland allowed them to enter local leagues. Their are criteria around establishing new clubs and they fall well short. They would have been better to fund the programme through the Selwyn/Rolleston club setup, but that doesn't have the same appeal does it?

APFA played Red Gordon's Coastal team (U-15) 2 seasons ago
it was hardly a 'friendly'. Some of the football was quite good but disappointing to see such gamesmanship, diving, whinging, badgering ref/linesman from supposedly the cream of NZ and the South Pacific.

well done Stevel for getting a player into APFA. I'm pretty sure in the first 2 intakes(seasons) the total number of scholarships for local players was 1. I hope the player enjoys it and finds it a positive experience. I guess I am also interested in what factors go into making the decsion to go to the APFA as opposed to working in 'his team'.

yes RK a lot of the Whole of Football Plan looks far better than anything an Academy could offer. It certainly requires a 'new' mindset at the beginner grades but looking at what trials I have seen of it so far it looks like high involvement and fun.

BTW Bara clinic tonight @ Linfield. Should be good

wrt my players decision to go to APFA rather than stay with his club, the way junior football works here in Wellington is that the junior club competition run by Capital Football ends at Grade 14 (the year they turn 14).  He finished G14 with me last year.  Thereafter they play for their college in the school competition.  He was at St Pat's town, with no gaurantee of a good development environment.  As it turns out this year St Pat's have a great 1st XI coached by Stu Jacobs, so that wouldn't have been a bad thing. Stevel2011-07-12 12:46:02

Player Development - so we all agree an 'academy' style hothouse - 10,000 hrs principle and all that is good for player devt, right? Pro clubs all recognise this. Big diff here is that in a small backwater with too many clubs and not enough numbers, no club is able to offer anything like a true 'academy' experience. OK Coastal & Nelson Subs have started something - good on them - but it's nothing like the real deal. Pro academies don't waste their time playing in club Sat leagues but they do play games as part of development. Honestly don't see what's wrong with Mainland providing some sort of academy experience to players whilst the clubs catch up in the meantime. They are filling a gap. To me whether they play in Sat leagues is a question of what's best for their devt. To date Coastal and Mainland seem to think so but it's not what happens in other parts of the football world, is it?

I agree.  There are a proliferation of academies here in Welington filling a gap that a combination of club/CF isn't.  They generally cost a bomb, and those parents wouldn't be paying if the players were getting all that they needed from their junior clubs/schools/CF.

You make some very good points SE. Even when Coastal had their Sporting Futures academy up and running 2 years ago (before Mainland hijacked it by poaching Ed Baranowski) most of the players came from out of our area, something I am not comfortable with. Clubs should be based around a geographical area, not one or 2 teams and take total responsibility for promoting and running the game in [bold]their[/bold] area with the support of the Federation and NZ Football. They should not be in competition with their own federation! That is why I am such a supporter of the WOF plan, it is not someone coming in saying you don't know jack sh*t, we'll take over. If the Federations concentrated there energies in supporting clubs to become strong in the administration and development of player focused pathways within their area we would all benefit. It's like mining for gold, you've got to turn over the ground on as large an area as you can manage as often as you can to get the nuggets. Many club and non club based academies only attract players already good at the game and from out of their area. At the moment we miss so many nuggets through cost and these poor club structures. If clubs set up their own academies (and they should as part of their player development programme) that is great, but it must be part of a pathway for people in their area, not the be all and end all of the players development. Any academy in NZ Football should be treated as a stepping stone to exporting players into a semi pro or pro environment, which is what Sporting Futures will look to do when it is re-established later this year. I see no point in developing players merely for the purpose in playing for our mens or womens senior teams in the local Mainland league. If we get the use of them for a couple of years on the way through that would be good but if we end up with all of them staying here over the course of the next 4 - 5 years then as a club we have actually failed in what we have set out to do, even if it means we win a league title or 2 in the mean time. When someone down the road signs up little Johnny next year in our First Kicks programme, he is not dreaming of him ending up in our men's first team is he? As clubs we need to try and help him achieve his dream for little Johnny.

You'll always get a certain number that pay over the odds to get the perceived "best" for their child. We see it here in our own area. Many of our members live in the poorest parts of town (Bromley, Linwood, Aranui, Wainoni) while some live in relatively affluent areas such as South Shore where the household income would easily be 2 to 3 times that of the others. While they may be members of the same football club the difference is seen in the high schools they attend - many bus out of the area to Boys High, Shirley boys, Girls High etc rather than attend the local schools Aranui High, Linwood College or Mairehau high. Interestingly while many clubs lost players due to the earthquake Coastal actually maintained numbers due to an influx of members from other areas because of the perceived quality of the player development programmes!

Back in the dim, distant past, I played for both Johnson Villa and Onslow JFCs (in different seasons).  Each club had a progression to North Wellington seniors (the reason for 2 separate junior clubs was that the boundary between Wgtn JFA and Mana JFA passed through the middle of North Wgtn's player catchment area).  Has Onslow since seceded from North Wellington?

I think theoretically there is a link between Onslow JFC and NW seniors, but I've been coaching at Onslow for the last 10 years and have coached players right from Nursery Grade to Grade 14 and out the door to college and I've never seen that link be anything other than theoretical.  If any Onslow junior goes on to play for NW seniors it won't be because of any bonding that occured while they were at Onslow.  As far as Onslow juniors are concerned, North Wellington players are rivals.  Or less than that, as NW don't often have teams in the top junior leagues.

Don't mind us, we never stay on topic either.