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Mainland Premier League (Part 1)
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Wellbourn got first chipped keeper from 30 out. Not sure what the score was when player sent.
That is a great result, far cry from the drubbing they got last year.
What's sight without sound? Love without peace? Copulation without conception?
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different clubs have different philosophies around what age grade is 'correct'.
Last season 2 clubs sacrificed one age group to try to win an older D1 grade. Both clubs now have no side in the D1 grade they gave up on last year. The good players of that age have moved to other clubs or play up in age again.
I'm hopelessly compromised
because I believe the rule should be uniform and in the corresponding age grade but my kids have always played up because it was a better footballing option.
Last season 2 clubs sacrificed one age group to try to win an older D1 grade. Both clubs now have no side in the D1 grade they gave up on last year. The good players of that age have moved to other clubs or play up in age again.
I'm hopelessly compromised
because I believe the rule should be uniform and in the corresponding age grade but my kids have always played up because it was a better footballing option. hullo Nomads!
so who is getting developed by winning 24-0? Cashmere Tech also have very good 13D1 players up in 14's. Coastal and FC2011 have kept their guys in the 13's D1 and the 2 who would of made that team (Coastal) who are younger play in the 12's.(which is a considerably less strong side).
I talked to a Waimak organizer this week and he was saying it's ridiculous them having 2x 14D1 sides... results round 1 seem to confirm that.
Players should be in their corresponding age grade. Player development is club coaching and FTC.
The Saturday Game becomes useless and in fact harmful if the focus is we are in the winning team. If we want a genuine D1 comp then clubs choosing to stack teams and sacrifice others needs to be looked at.
some blow outs in other grades D1 as well, I know a side that lost 1 - 18 in preseason lost 0 - 8 yesterday to a side with a sympathetic coach.
in the poor organization arena, we turned up to find no posts and no marked field... worse still two fields marked across the one we were supposed to play on. Unacceptable really. The home coach was pretty upset, more so when I said this equates to a default
as he has the far stronger team and his side should win D1. The issue of course becomes it's his boys that miss out on the win if I protest. sigh. That is straight out embarrassing for not just the home club but for mainland.
Flicking through the junior grades theres a few 10+ goal margins...makes me feel better about the hiding my lads got. It just further fans the flames for those who are calling for a revamp of the junior comps (myself included).
Some kids are too good to be playing in their own age group given how shambolic some age groups are, but I do (to a degree) disagree with clubs moving a whole squad up. a total revamp of the regions comps is needed IMO. Remove U13-U18 and replace it with U14s (midday kick off), U16 (915am) and U18s (1045am) and then move your mens kick offs back 30 mins.
While it'll be a big step up for some kids it'll largely help the top end players develop. Maybe semi social divisions in the current age brackets for those outside of the top tier of players.
Shame something that logical will never ever happen
gings2012-04-22 19:20:40
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my kids have always played up because it was a better footballing option.
Players should be in their corresponding age grade. Player development is club coaching and FTC.
Foal, your self-acknowledged hypocrisy doth confuse me. Also, your own club plays lots of players up - especially at 15/17/PDL grades - so I'm a tad confused about your confusion around the 'playing up' philosophy
Stretford End2012-04-22 19:23:58Kotahitanga. We are one.
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I agree with Stretford Ender.. Need to go back to the Fred Simpson days when there were 2 year bands. Each of the Div 1 teams were only allowed 4 Academy / Rep / Mainland players in their team. This meant all teams in the Div1 were evenly balanced and all the games were competetive.
Now the "Mainland" coach takes all his Canterbury players to either Tech, Coastal or whoever and have a totally lop sided league and crap scorelines... Who wins.
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I agree with Stretford Ender.. Need to go back to the Fred Simpson days when there were 2 year bands. Each of the Div 1 teams were only allowed�4 Academy / Rep / Mainland players in their team. This meant all teams in the Div1 were evenly balanced and all the games were competetive.
Now the "Mainland" coach takes all his Canterbury players to either Tech or whoever and have a totally lop sided league and crap scorelines... Who wins.
What's sight without sound? Love without peace? Copulation without conception?
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my kids have always played up because it was a better footballing option.
Players should be in their corresponding age grade. Player development is club coaching and FTC.
Foal, your self-acknowledged hypocrisy doth confuse me. Also, your own club plays lots of players up - especially at 15/17/PDL grades - so I'm a tad confused about your confusion around the 'playing up' philosophy
In theory Foal is right but the practicalities mean otherwise. And yes other clubs are only mimicking what has worked so successfully for Coastal, although this is nothing new.
Why do Coastal play players up in PDL/Seniors?
Take a look at the clubs attrition rate to schools and the farcical School of Football teams and you pretty much have your reason. that and the fact that no genuinely talented player I know of has ever suffered from early promotion. Not to mention the competition from other clubs to pick up disaffected young players who don't get their shot at the bigtime when they want it.
Part of the problem currently with the one sided score-lines is happening because you see the introduction of school teams to leagues that causes issues for club teams that lose players. When you spend 3 - 5 years or longer developing players in teams it gets difficult once the better players get picked off by the schools and you are forced into putting out an average side that previously was ok in Div 1. This constantly puts clubs on the back foot and forces them to go looking for players to fill the slots or recreate teams that are competitive. Mainland dicking around with competition structures certainly isn't helping.
What's sight without sound? Love without peace? Copulation without conception?
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I agree with Stretford Ender.. Need to go back to the Fred Simpson days when there were 2 year bands. Each of the Div 1 teams were only allowed�4 Academy / Rep / Mainland players in their team. This meant all teams in the Div1 were evenly balanced and all the games were competetive.
Now the "Mainland" coach takes all his Canterbury players to either Tech, Coastal or whoever and have a totally lop sided league and crap scorelines... Who wins.
Well old Fred must have changed his spots on a number of fronts because he has whole cashmere div 1 teams playing up: 17 div 1 is basically 15th grade Nike cup team; 15 div 1 are all 14th grade (and 10 - yes, 10, from the academy!); the 13a team is playing 14 div 2. Accordingly I note the cashmere 13 & 14 div 1 teams (ie B teams) were both thumped. Practice what you preach?
Kotahitanga. We are one.
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I agree with Stretford Ender.. Need to go back to the Fred Simpson days when there were 2 year bands. Each of the Div 1 teams were only allowed�4 Academy / Rep / Mainland players in their team. This meant all teams in the Div1 were evenly balanced and all the games were competetive.
Now the "Mainland" coach takes all his Canterbury players to either Tech, Coastal or whoever and have a totally lop sided league and crap scorelines... Who wins?
Usually the team with the most goals
What's sight without sound? Love without peace? Copulation without conception?
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So MPL...Coastal top but with Dragons loss, Cashmere & Bays get their Canty players back.
And Coastal!
�
�
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Do not forget Suburbs�three player with ChCh United likely to sign at least�one.��
Add Dominic McGarr onto the Chch Utd list as of 2nd week May.
That should be the case unless some money changes hands from one of the so called bigger clubs.
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[QUOTE=Stretford End] So MPL...Coastal top but with Dragons loss, Cashmere & Bays get their Canty players back.
�
Do not forget Suburbs�three player with ChCh United likely to sign at least�one.��
Add Dominic McGarr onto the Chch Utd list as of 2nd week May.
That should be the case unless some money changes hands from one of the so called bigger clubs.
And who might they be? Ctech and FC90210?
What's sight without sound? Love without peace? Copulation without conception?
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I agree with Stretford Ender.. Need to go back to the Fred Simpson days when there were 2 year bands. Each of the Div 1 teams were only allowed�4 Academy / Rep / Mainland players in their team. This meant all teams in the Div1 were evenly balanced and all the games were competetive.
Now the "Mainland" coach takes all his Canterbury players to either Tech, Coastal or whoever and have a totally lop sided league and crap scorelines... Who wins?
Usually the team with the most goals
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my kids have always played up because it was a better footballing option.
Players should be in their corresponding age grade. Player development is club coaching and FTC.
Foal, your self-acknowledged hypocrisy doth confuse me. Also, your own club plays lots of players up - especially at 15/17/PDL grades - so I'm a tad confused about your confusion around the 'playing up' philosophy
this season 10 -14's are all in the correct age grade. Vim might correct me on this, possibly 1 x14th grader is in the 15's. Regardless, that's over 100 juniors playing in the right comp.
for the Girls, I think there is 1 in the 14's who could play 12's still. So I think we are doing the right thing.
for the 17's yes there is some 15's there but that is also to do with player numbers. I don't know about PDL.
E's Flat Ah's Flat Too
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Gings, it's getting worse with players moving up not better.
did you check the 13D1 results? My lot were the only team to beat Cashmere last year , now they lose to Halswell 0-6 because the best players are in 14D2. Nomads could field a top side in this grade, instead they are winning 24-0.
if players played in their correct grade Nomads, FC20 , Cashmere, Coastal and Waimak all possible D1 grade winners. Instead Coastal (as long as they can negotiate Kanga trip) might do it easy. This means those boys get a lesser standard of football.
my mate at Waimak said the 14 B team was D5 last season
did you check the 13D1 results? My lot were the only team to beat Cashmere last year , now they lose to Halswell 0-6 because the best players are in 14D2. Nomads could field a top side in this grade, instead they are winning 24-0.
if players played in their correct grade Nomads, FC20 , Cashmere, Coastal and Waimak all possible D1 grade winners. Instead Coastal (as long as they can negotiate Kanga trip) might do it easy. This means those boys get a lesser standard of football.
my mate at Waimak said the 14 B team was D5 last season
E's Flat Ah's Flat Too
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my kids have always played up because it was a better footballing option.
Players should be in their corresponding age grade. Player development is club coaching and FTC.
Foal, your self-acknowledged hypocrisy doth confuse me. Also, your own club plays lots of players up - especially at 15/17/PDL grades - so I'm a tad confused about your confusion around the 'playing up' philosophy
Hoary Old Chestnut (continued): As someone said - Ronaldoknow I think but I'm happy to be corrected - there comes a time when "if you're good enough, you're old enough". So IMO, there should not be any age criteria for PDL but realistically it is and should be a considered decision to play a boy against men, and the reason should never be driven by a team/club being short on numbers.
My own view is that one rule will NEVER fit all and that there are a range of factors to consider. Just for starters, some kids mature earlier; let alone development stages of technical, tactical and other competencies. Because of all these factors (and differing views within age groups, clubs and even teams), there can only ever be guidelines from Mainland and each club/player/parent will need to make their own individual decisions. My over-riding guideline would be playing up should be the exception rather than the norm.
Kotahitanga. We are one.
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So many threads in the same one!
I'll just choose one: The MPL will be a whole different kettle of fish with the Canty players now coming back. Will make things tighter up the top and worse for those down the bottom obviously with Tech and Bays being the main beneficiaries of the meltdown at English Park yesterday.
I'll just choose one: The MPL will be a whole different kettle of fish with the Canty players now coming back. Will make things tighter up the top and worse for those down the bottom obviously with Tech and Bays being the main beneficiaries of the meltdown at English Park yesterday.
I let my guitar speak for me
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Further to my last post, according to the fantastic transfers page here are where the Canty Utd players are going:
Tech: Yamamoto, Wortleboer, Barton, Collett, Terris.
Bays: Highfield, Kamo, Macintyre, Schwarz, Smith.
Why do you think these two teams constantly get the bulk of the players?
Tech: Yamamoto, Wortleboer, Barton, Collett, Terris.
Bays: Highfield, Kamo, Macintyre, Schwarz, Smith.
Why do you think these two teams constantly get the bulk of the players?
I let my guitar speak for me
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Further to my last post, according to the fantastic transfers page here are where the Canty Utd players are going:
Tech: Yamamoto, Wortleboer, Barton, Collett, Terris.
Bays: Highfield, Kamo, Macintyre, Schwarz, Smith.
Why do you think these two teams constantly get the bulk of the players?
Tech: Yamamoto, Wortleboer, Barton, Collett, Terris.
Bays: Highfield, Kamo, Macintyre, Schwarz, Smith.
Why do you think these two teams constantly get the bulk of the players?
Most are going back to the winter club they played for in 2011, with Collett and Schwarz not having played in Christchurch during the winter. Smith played for Woolston Tech last year and Yamamotodo ???
But best if you ask the players directly as to why?
I have asked several of the above named players, not this season and most were open with their replies.
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I agree with Stretford Ender.. Need to go back to the Fred Simpson days when there were 2 year bands. Each of the Div 1 teams were only allowed�4 Academy / Rep / Mainland players in their team. This meant all teams in the Div1 were evenly balanced and all the games were competetive.
Now the "Mainland" coach takes all his Canterbury players to either Tech, Coastal or whoever and have a totally lop sided league and crap scorelines... Who wins?
Usually the team with the most goals
Yep usually, as in not always.
In 2009 Coastal Spirit beat Halswell 10-0 in the women's MPL but due to both teams fielding ineligible players the result became a 3-0 loss to both teams.
What's sight without sound? Love without peace? Copulation without conception?
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Despite my good looks and friendly personality, I'm not on good terms with the Canty Utd squad. Twas more an open question to those on the forum for their opinions.
Vim with your winning smile I would think you would be on good terms with everyone but some of the responses I received were, the club they moved from lacked ambition, their mates were at the new club, one stated that did not enjoy previous coach as the training sessions were all the same.
AllWhites822012-04-23 23:52:22
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Im gunna attempt to tie everything from the last few pages together.
1 )the kids up vs kids in their age group thing is a toughie. The schools don't help it but even then the grades are a shambles before they turn up. Maybe Cash Tech is onto something by pushing up whole squads...time will tell. As I mentioned previously - a full revamp of everything north of 12th grade would be great.
2) MPL is looking very competitive so far, this is positive for the region. Whether that lasts once the dragons boys get back in will be another story.
3) Canty united players ending up largely spread over 2 clubs. I suspect this is much like clubs ending up with a large % of the youth south island champ teams. A few are at 1 club, so a few go to join their mates etc etc. ($$$ may also help, but I'm not privvy to those convos)
1 )the kids up vs kids in their age group thing is a toughie. The schools don't help it but even then the grades are a shambles before they turn up. Maybe Cash Tech is onto something by pushing up whole squads...time will tell. As I mentioned previously - a full revamp of everything north of 12th grade would be great.
2) MPL is looking very competitive so far, this is positive for the region. Whether that lasts once the dragons boys get back in will be another story.
3) Canty united players ending up largely spread over 2 clubs. I suspect this is much like clubs ending up with a large % of the youth south island champ teams. A few are at 1 club, so a few go to join their mates etc etc. ($$$ may also help, but I'm not privvy to those convos)
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I agree with Stretford Ender.. Need to go back to the Fred Simpson days when there were 2 year bands. Each of the Div 1 teams were only allowed 4 Academy / Rep / Mainland players in their team. This meant all teams in the Div1 were evenly balanced and all the games were competetive.
Now the "Mainland" coach takes all his Canterbury players to either Tech, Coastal or whoever and have a totally lop sided league and crap scorelines... Who wins.
FWIW I took Rep side last season and this practice of player migration is monitored. I forwarded numerous concerns to Mr Walker and as far as I am concerned he sorted it. IIRC 48 players , only 3 shifted clubs , of those 3 transfers 1 is dodgy but appears no paperwork filed when I look at the clearance page
. so I think it's being eliminated the "play reps if you play for my club" scenario.
However FTC could be rich pickings. I think it's very important that the FTC coaches are not also club coaches in associated grades. It's just another level of transparency, ala No Parents to Coach Rep sides that have their own kids eligible.
E's Flat Ah's Flat Too
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Rep coaches shouldn't even take teams in grades they coach in for the sake of transparency.
It would be impossible to have rep/FTC coaches all totally independent of clubs, we simply don't have that many coaches around. I say devolve football development to the clubs with the assistance of the FDO's and do away with centralised development etc. Divide the city up into 8 areas and group clubs together playing regionalised rep leagues on Sunday mornings, then send these teams to Sth Island tournaments where they are then identified for FTC training over the summer. Resource the clubs and club coaches who are already at the coal face. Why limit the knowledge and information of people like Ed Baronowski and Alan Walker to the 5 coaches and 70 odd players training in the current School of Farceball setup? So narrow sited.
It would be impossible to have rep/FTC coaches all totally independent of clubs, we simply don't have that many coaches around. I say devolve football development to the clubs with the assistance of the FDO's and do away with centralised development etc. Divide the city up into 8 areas and group clubs together playing regionalised rep leagues on Sunday mornings, then send these teams to Sth Island tournaments where they are then identified for FTC training over the summer. Resource the clubs and club coaches who are already at the coal face. Why limit the knowledge and information of people like Ed Baronowski and Alan Walker to the 5 coaches and 70 odd players training in the current School of Farceball setup? So narrow sited.
What's sight without sound? Love without peace? Copulation without conception?
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