A-league Expansion - Derbies

" While expansion is great, they really need to improve the game day experience "

I saw an old All Black test from the 70s on YouTube, they had the Army Marching Band performing on field before kick-off. Is that the kind of thing you're envisaging?

YouCanCallMeAl

As long as whatever the Auckland team ends up being isn’t based at North Harbour Stadium, I’m all for it 

"The Sydney Morning Herald is reporting the Auckland team will be based at Mt Smart Stadium."

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/a-league-to-announce-auckland-team-report/J4JE2ZO4ARG5NGNO5Z5MPVGAII/

I was reading that one of the Second Division bids in Oz is the Sutherland Sharks,  with the backing of the Cronulla NRL team. It might be sweet for the Warriors to back the Auckland A-League team

double post

Doloras

" While expansion is great, they really need to improve the game day experience "

I saw an old All Black test from the 70s on YouTube, they had the Army Marching Band performing on field before kick-off. Is that the kind of thing you're envisaging?

Game day experience can also mean good parking, or good affordable public transport.  It can mean being allowed to bring and eat your own snacks / food, even if not your own booze.  It can mean having a covered stand if it is raining, and not trudging through muddy paddock to find your car.
Decent football is a given as a condition.  I do not need an EPL quality to enjoy a game.  Last weekend we had a couple of games in ALM that were excellent entertainment with passion, commitment and good skills on show.  I do not think this was an exception. There is a decent enough quality of football in the ALM.

As far as the quality of football goes the Phoenix have shown a number of times this season with their 1st half performances they are more than capable of delivering quality football. Sadly far to many times that has gone come the 2nd half and your mostly left with a memory of a poor 2nd half of football.
Food also shouldnt enter into it at Sky Stadium as you are allowed to take your own just not commercially package stuff.
Affordability is a big one the Phoenix reckon they are on a par with Rugby but they are not and i have no idea where they are comparing prices. 

RR

YouCanCallMeAl

As long as whatever the Auckland team ends up being isn’t based at North Harbour Stadium, I’m all for it 

"The Sydney Morning Herald is reporting the Auckland team will be based at Mt Smart Stadium."

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/a-league-to-announce-auckland-team-report/J4JE2ZO4ARG5NGNO5Z5MPVGAII/

What are the issues with North Harbour? I can't think of any massive ones, bar maybe pitch-sharing issues if the baseball stays there. The cut out on the far side doesn't really affect anything, it's not as if there would be capacity crowds. I didn't notice anything wrong the other day at the women's match there. I haven't been to Mt Smart for years so not sure what state that is in for comparison.

If it's that NHS is just 'too far away', then that's a very personalised issue based on where one lives. NHS is a lot closer to me and a lot of others north and west of the Bridge than Mt Smart is. It's not even as if it's hard to get to, the busway goes to Albany, both Northern and Northwestern Motorways carry all the way through and then it's one kilometre down Oteha Valley Rd with loads of free parking. It's not as if it's in Eden-Parkian suburbia.

Doloras

" While expansion is great, they really need to improve the game day experience "

I saw an old All Black test from the 70s on YouTube, they had the Army Marching Band performing on field before kick-off. Is that the kind of thing you're envisaging?

Look to MLS (which is booming) and you'll know what I mean

We can definitely learn from the MLS, but America is a whole different world so, it not a like for like scenario.

" It's not even as if it's hard to get to, the busway goes to Albany, "

The bus station is a 20 minute walk from the stadium, very hard with kids

Looking at the article on stuff I'd be surprised if it happens, unfortunately.

They've said that they don't have the entry fee and that puts them out of the running as a standalone entity but they've been talking to a few investors. They're looking for a consortium of five to find $21 - 27 million by the end of June, that's a lot of money in a short amount of time.

They've also said they wont be spending as much as the Australian teams but more in line with the Phoenix. Yet, Dome has said that the Phoenix are in the top half of the comp in spend so Vuksich might be a little optimistic on what he can do with the money he's got access to.

While it would be great to have an Auckland team, we don't want another underinvested Auckland team.

Voerman raised the idea of APL just starting their own AKL franchise and selling it later, like they did with WSW?

But in any case I wouldn't think that Vuksich's "Auckland FC" would get the broad buy-in from the AKL football community that it would need, precisely because no-one likes ACFC and their pokies-rorting ways. So it would have to be a bigger collective.

" “My strong view has always been we're an Australasian league and we need to properly embrace New Zealand,” Townsend said. 

 “If we're going to properly embrace New Zealand, we need to work collaboratively with New Zealand Football. We need to work with the regions in New Zealand. We need to work with the pyramid all the way down to the grassroots and ensure that every New Zealand registered player feels like they're on a journey to the A-Leagues. 

 “Wellington's a huge part of that. This new Auckland franchise will be a big part of that, creating New Zealand derbies at Eden Park, sell-out fixtures – they're the spectacles that New Zealand football fans deserve and want and I think that's what we're going to deliver through this team.”"

I know the Aussie fans hate Danny Townsend with a burning passion, but I'm beginning to warm to the guy

Doloras

Voerman raised the idea of APL just starting their own AKL franchise and selling it later, like they did with WSW?

But in any case I wouldn't think that Vuksich's "Auckland FC" would get the broad buy-in from the AKL football community that it would need, precisely because no-one likes ACFC and their pokies-rorting ways. So it would have to be a bigger collective.

Does the APL have the money to fund a loss making team? Would they get a return on investment when it's sold? 

Perhaps a consortium made up of some locals and investment by a City Group type investor. 

For 12 years I have been saying Auckland will rise once more

In fact it was under my name until some smart ass mod changed it

Definitely working with the local sporting community will be important, Warriors included. Something like a discount for tickets across the codes would be fantastic. 

I definitely think Vuksich and Sipka's ambition is good, while people may have their opinions on Auckland City FC, people being willing to invest in the professional game here is a good thing. But it does sound like it may a bit out of their range - maybe they would be willing to engage in the consortium-type idea that Townsend raises?

The only reason the Nix are still with us is that we got a decent ownership consortium, based around the Morrison brothers as leaders. To hear Vuksich tell it, he doesn't want to be part of a team which doesn't recognize his leadership in advance, which may be a problem.

I would imagine that establishing an academy from scratch is difficult, expensive and takes a while to see the results. Can see us doing a Brentford for a while who decided against one but rather raid others. Admittedly they would focus on the cast offs from the big clubs. We however may target some of the prime 🤣

Well I've done my part. Never get tempted but chanced my arm at tonight's powerball while getting groceries after work. I've told the missus if she hits, home ownership can stay on the backburner because auckland needs a team! She's not overly enthused but I'll keep Ivan's email address handy just in case...

Doloras

" “My strong view has always been we're an Australasian league and we need to properly embrace New Zealand,” Townsend said. 

 “If we're going to properly embrace New Zealand, we need to work collaboratively with New Zealand Football. We need to work with the regions in New Zealand. We need to work with the pyramid all the way down to the grassroots and ensure that every New Zealand registered player feels like they're on a journey to the A-Leagues. 

 “Wellington's a huge part of that. This new Auckland franchise will be a big part of that, creating New Zealand derbies at Eden Park, sell-out fixtures – they're the spectacles that New Zealand football fans deserve and want and I think that's what we're going to deliver through this team.”"

I know the Aussie fans hate Danny Townsend with a burning passion, but I'm beginning to warm to the guy

 The fact we seem to finally have an ally in the A League hierarchy regarding developing NZ professional football certainly helps with this view (as opposed wanting to get rid of the only team we have). 

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Auckland United.

I thought the intention of Murray Holdaway getting involved was to build toward an A-league license?

20 Legend

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Auckland United.

I thought the intention of Murray Holdaway getting involved was to build toward an A-league license?

The sensible thing would be for Holdaway to join forces with Vuksich and Sipka for a joint bid - but I fear the question of Who Will Be Boss will ruin that prospect

Doloras

20 Legend

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Auckland United.

I thought the intention of Murray Holdaway getting involved was to build toward an A-league license?

The sensible thing would be for Holdaway to join forces with Vuksich and Sipka for a joint bid - but I fear the question of Who Will Be Boss will ruin that prospect

 That and the name... "Auckland City United"?

I reckon it'll be Auckland United or a new franchise directly related to them. They've got the wealthy backers (though probably not wealthy enough in their own right to bankroll the entire thing), they're not handcuffed by any history, and they have a decent academy set up already.

Their academy is technically the old Wellington Phoenix Soccer School that the Nix ran with Onehunga Sports.

Auckland City Warriors

Catchy if you ask me.

Ryan

Looking at the article on stuff I'd be surprised if it happens, unfortunately.

They've said that they don't have the entry fee and that puts them out of the running as a standalone entity but they've been talking to a few investors. They're looking for a consortium of five to find $21 - 27 million by the end of June, that's a lot of money in a short amount of time.

They've also said they wont be spending as much as the Australian teams but more in line with the Phoenix. Yet, Dome has said that the Phoenix are in the top half of the comp in spend so Vuksich might be a little optimistic on what he can do with the money he's got access to.

While it would be great to have an Auckland team, we don't want another underinvested Auckland team.

You are reading it as Auckland City are making a bid. They would love to but don't have close to $25M standalone. Vuksich is basically offering himself as chairman of the new team, saying any bid needs a passionate football person to run it.

I think it would be a mistake to have a heavy ACFC influence over any ALM team. Risk alienating parts of the Auckland Football community when you really want everyone possible jumping on the bandwagon, with only positive energy about the whole venture/bid.

Personally I like the Eden Park experience for football, cricket or rugby. The absolute key to making it work for a ALM team would be a fan group like the Yellow Fever, that's allowed to stand in a certain section with no issues.

But I enjoy EP even when the crowds are only around 10K and they shut off half the stadium. Greats bars & restaurants nearby, good public transport, central to all parts Auckland, nice leafy streets around the ground & you feel pretty close to the action (far more than the ROF). Plus is a stadium steeped in history. I think 10K is the smallest crowd in the last few years the Nix have been going there. Say what you like about that ground, but the Nix would say it's been a success playing there of late.

I've been once each to
NHS - just felt like it was miles away from Central Auckland, with zero pre or post game atmosphere (couldn't see a bar anywhere)
Mt Smart - better than NHS but sort of in an ugly industrial wasteland. Was a night league game, so maybe it's prettier around Penrose there in the daytime.

Everyone's different but for me it's EP. Sounds like the Nix derby games (plus I guess any home finals) would be at EP.

But yes if the new team is at EP or Mt Smart I can see them averaging crowds in the 8-12K range. With blockbuster crowds for the Nix derbies. Auckland has changed alot since 2007 and the Knights. Probably another 200-300K people now live in the 09 since then. Many of them immigrants. Many of them football fans. Also the public transport system has got a bit better. The Light Rail Project may even be done by 2025!

Throw in a few big name signings - Chris Wood, Tuiloma, Mikey Boxall. A Chinese player to tap into that community. Could even go better than expected.
But as Domey states below the financial commitment required is big, and won't just stop with the $25M expansion fee.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/a-league/131509534/wellington-phoenix-gm-david-dome-sees-pros-and-cons-of-an-auckland-aleagues-club

Fortunately/unfortunately Townsend has mentioned it in his speech- it has to be Eden Park. 

I’ve had much improved match days at both North Harbour and Mount Smart. The busway is good for Harbour and the atmosphere was decent for the last couple of games I was there. Mount Smart caused Vinny Lia to score a goal, nay, an absolute wonderous worldie. (It was there not Hams right?) 

But I think part of the reason Townsend is enthusiastic is surely Eden Park is desperate to get another team in? They’ve seen the numbers from some of the Roy Krishna games there and have dollar signs for eyes? 

Can’t say I’m a fan of any of the names bandied about so far. The Phoenix is a great name, with some awesome designs. Plus Yellow and Black are great colours. 

The league doesn’t need another blue team surely? They’ve got three already, but I can’t think of any other colour for Auckland. Unless they wanted to brand as some kind of Northern? Try and include Hamiltron and Whangarei and everywhere else? 

I think we already talked this to death, but imo like Wellington has a distinct identity, a team based in one of the subcities West/South or North might have more of a clear identity to support. A team attempting to be all things to all people may just end up being vague or worse a bit soulless. 

The Trusts out west is definitely out as a venue right? 

It's certainly an interesting time to be considering expansion. With the economy not necessarily in the best situation and inflation being what it is I do wonder who's gonna want to stump up the cash for this team? Don't get me wrong I hope it does happen, it would be amazing to have an NZ Darby, but I feel that the timing is a touch off.

Is this a knee jerk reaction to the NSD coming along and trying to keep the A-League at the forefront? I don't really see this as a silver bullet to fix the leagues problems that it currently faces. Maybe I'm reading it all wrong though.

Can't see an Auckland team doing that well though. Support in Auckland for sports in general is fairly poor relative to population. Could be a great boost for the Nix though.

domey not really givign anything away in this:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/a-league/131509534/wellington-phoenix-gm-david-dome-sees-pros-and-cons-of-an-auckland-aleagues-club

Finding the buy in money is just the small first step, you then have to be able to fund/find players that want to play for a new franchise in Auckland. For mine it has to be a seperate identity from any existing club. much like the Nix they need to be a step above the local clubs. That way you can avoid alienating other clubs fans and hopefully get a unanimous buy in from all clubs' supporters. Although for some reason this never really happened with the Nix - I dont totally get why more of the local footballing community dont support the nix.

Doloras

Voerman raised the idea of APL just starting their own AKL franchise and selling it later, like they did with WSW?

But in any case I wouldn't think that Vuksich's "Auckland FC" would get the broad buy-in from the AKL football community that it would need, precisely because no-one likes ACFC and their pokies-rorting ways. So it would have to be a bigger collective.

 Well they haven't found owners for the Jets. Think what is more likely is there is some kind of payment arrangement over a number of years if they cant stump up $25m straight away.

What's Spoonley blithering about? Where could you possibly have room to build a stadium downtown, at least until the port is moved somewhere else? https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/03/15/sprint-on-for-auckland-a-league-team-downtown-stadium-included/

to be fair to Spoonley he is talking ideals, he does go on to say that Mt Smart would be the frontrunner along with North Harbour and Eden Park.

Monto

It's certainly an interesting time to be considering expansion. With the economy not necessarily in the best situation and inflation being what it is I do wonder who's gonna want to stump up the cash for this team? Don't get me wrong I hope it does happen, it would be amazing to have an NZ Darby, but I feel that the timing is a touch off.

Is this a knee jerk reaction to the NSD coming along and trying to keep the A-League at the forefront? I don't really see this as a silver bullet to fix the leagues problems that it currently faces. Maybe I'm reading it all wrong though.

Can't see an Auckland team doing that well though. Support in Auckland for sports in general is fairly poor relative to population. Could be a great boost for the Nix though.

Depends what you define as "doing well." Results? Big crowds? Financial stability?

Ultimately you want all of these but realistically you might get one out of three. Sometimes more, but it comes and goes.

For me as a football fan who loves the Nix but also follows teams and leagues around the globe I'd have to say the last thing I wana see is 5,000 people boxed into the middle of a grand stand while 40,000 seats around are empty in some white elephant stadium. 

Football should excite, create unique atmosphere, fan culture and build history/identity. It's still got a long way to go in this part of the world but here's hoping.

So for me, if there was a rectangular  10k seater stadium ready to go I'd say what are we waiting for?? But that's not the case.

Maybe that's just me though coming from Europe where the fan culture and stadium experiences are top notch. Be it a 5k or 50k crowd

Doloras

What's Spoonley blithering about? Where could you possibly have room to build a stadium downtown, at least until the port is moved somewhere else? https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/03/15/sprint-on-for-auckland-a-league-team-downtown-stadium-included/

Wynyard Point. It's being redeveloped over the next few years, would be absolutely perfect. 

Having said all that I'm gutted Christchurch didn't get a mention.

We had 20k for a Nix game, a lot of English and Europeans live here, growing population and a brand new stadium in the CBD. 

Such a shame, not even the Nix come visit us anymore 😢 

RR

Doloras

What's Spoonley blithering about? Where could you possibly have room to build a stadium downtown, at least until the port is moved somewhere else? https://www.1news.co.nz/2023/03/15/sprint-on-for-auckland-a-league-team-downtown-stadium-included/

Wynyard Point. It's being redeveloped over the next few years, would be absolutely perfect. 

Where exactly? Right out at the tip so it can get wrecked in the next cyclone?

Screenshot (145).png 580.57 KB

InsulinMachine

Monto

It's certainly an interesting time to be considering expansion. With the economy not necessarily in the best situation and inflation being what it is I do wonder who's gonna want to stump up the cash for this team? Don't get me wrong I hope it does happen, it would be amazing to have an NZ Darby, but I feel that the timing is a touch off.

Is this a knee jerk reaction to the NSD coming along and trying to keep the A-League at the forefront? I don't really see this as a silver bullet to fix the leagues problems that it currently faces. Maybe I'm reading it all wrong though.

Can't see an Auckland team doing that well though. Support in Auckland for sports in general is fairly poor relative to population. Could be a great boost for the Nix though.

Depends what you define as "doing well." Results? Big crowds? Financial stability?

Ultimately you want all of these but realistically you might get one out of three. Sometimes more, but it comes and goes.

For me as a football fan who loves the Nix but also follows teams and leagues around the globe I'd have to say the last thing I wana see is 5,000 people boxed into the middle of a grand stand while 40,000 seats around are empty in some white elephant stadium. 

Football should excite, create unique atmosphere, fan culture and build history/identity. It's still got a long way to go in this part of the world but here's hoping.

So for me, if there was a rectangular  10k seater stadium ready to go I'd say what are we waiting for?? But that's not the case.

Maybe that's just me though coming from Europe where the fan culture and stadium experiences are top notch. Be it a 5k or 50k crowd

Couldn't agree more with everything you said there.

Unfortunately we've had a terrible habit of building absolutely massive stadiums in this country to host that once a year All Blacks test match. Some small grounds would be phenomenal.