A League Expansion

Ryan

Thanks for your contribution, so you made figures up and used I am not sure what figures for Townsville as NQF averaged about 7K at best... you had not me but sports analysis, as well as some detailed business models, David Gallop, and for that matter the AFL as they have said very similar things about population centres. heartland areas etc...  ... you entire research was based on if people are not going to WSW today they will not in numbers go to another SWS side .....

Gotta hand to you the way you argued your point ....  and admire your logic ... 

you could argue Sydney has WSW - SFC and  after a pleasant train ride CCM. 4 m population.

Melbourne Has MVFC - MHFC(can't accept City in the name) 3.8 m population. 

Is the 3rd team not considered for the ethnic over tones of the old NSL?

There's a 35,000 seat AFL oval there, so they'd pretty much be in the same boat as us. Victory are playing Perth there in the regional round this season.

My point is that the costs of a new team should be considered along with any benefits they may bring. The crowd figures are just an example used to prove a point, which I clearly state. Do you not believe that new A-League sides should be evaluated on a cost-benefit analysis? Do you not believe a team in Western Sydney will take support away from the Wanderers? Once again, I haven't lived there and I'm looking for opinions. On the WSW forums they say that there is no market for a team from Campbelltown. Are they just scared of competition? I would love your thoughts.

How can you admire my logic when you don't understand it?

You still haven't even addressed my point as to whether fans from Western Sydney will go to support Campbelltown! I have asked you numerous questions all of which have been ignored whereas I have answered any questions you have posed.

Also if you read me posts you would clearly see that I stated NQF would probably average 5,500, not 7,000! I don't know where you got that figure from. Please read my posts if you are going to respond to me.

You say "you entire research was based on if people are not going to WSW today they will not in numbers go to another SWS side ....." Once again you completely fail to read my posts. I did not do any research, I simply gave my opinion that costs should be considered when a decision is made. I also said nothing about people not going to Western Sydney today. If people weren't going to Western Sydney then it would be logical to put a new team in Campbelltown as it would indicate there is space in the market. However, I don't believe Western Sydney needs another team because the Wanderers already serve the footballing community in Western Sydney.  My argument is that people are going to Western Sydney so Campbelltown's effectiveness will be reduced compared to other potential A-League sides like Canberra, Townsville where no one is currently going to. I have said that in every post so far. I have also stated that I think numbers will go to another SWS side just that those fans will go there largely at the expense of the Wanderers, because of derbys and maybe even at the expense of Sydney FC. 

I have asked you to prove my assertions of Western Sydney wrong having never lived there myself. I would again ask for your thoughts on supporter behaviour in a place like Liverpool.

Ryan

Sorry maybe I did not explain myself right ...

I talked about heartland areas ... I assume you understand what that means... in regional Australia egg ball codes are the heartland sports akin I guess to Rugby in NZ...

In Western Sydney  and to the close  east there is 2.7 million people ... I think 2.7 million is enough to support two teams...

Within this 2.7 million people ... 2 million is a shared heartland between RL & Football ... .7 million is pure Football heartland and that is in SWS in the Liverpool / Fairfield areas... 

Detailed business analysis provided, plus statements from David Gallop [after he researched it] where they said you must go to first population centres and if possible where you have a support base ... The AFL have said identical things as well.... however I have posted all this before..

This comment you made I think sums your belief system up """ Townsville team would bring more news fans in is one thing the FFA would have to evaluate (if they even cared about it). I just think it is an important consideration."""

Every single bit of research says regional Australia is not right at this stage ... however you claimed """ if they even cared about it ""' 

So you assume there has been no research done .. nor do they care ... when ALL the research from all codes is different to yours...

To your specific  question about what they are not currently WSW fans ... I have no idea but 2.7 million people should support 2 teams ...

As to cost, maybe a team in Sydney is cheaper to get to than a team in regional Australia ... 

Here we go again:

http://ugc.news.com.au/sport/our-city-big-enough-f...

http://www.sportal.com.au/football/a-league/tv-dea...

"With the current broadcast contract running until 2017, de Bohun said any change is unlikely before then but cities like Adelaide, Brisbane and Perth are contenders for second teams."

Yeah it's on the A-League website

 http://www.a-league.com.au/article/expansion-on-the-agenda-ahead-of-2017-tv-deal/1q5ry57xqyhs2169ofyd58wek8

I want to know who they think will turn up to watch second teams in those cities. Western Sydney was always isolated from the Bling, and even with the supposed horde of anti-Victory Melburnians, Heart only averaged around 9,000 fans a game over four seasons. Of the three cities listed there, Adelaide is the only one with an average attendance even close to the capacity of their ground. Unless there are large numbers of people in those cities who have a problem with the existing clubs, who is going to turn up for the new teams other than those with big enough wallets and open enough minds to turn up for both?

It would be a disaster. Gold Coast didn't even work. There is just too much to do in the big cities for a second team to really flourish. Any new team would have to have clear distinguishing qualities like Western Sydney did. Melbourne Heart had no identity for ages. Now they are Melbourne City and their identity is that they are rich. That's still better than nothing though.

But expansion needs to happen though. Another two more teams are needed to add variety to the competition. If they add 4 more then we could play each other twice.

I wonder if that Pacific bid will pop up again? If FFA were serious about expansion they should look at that. Last time I recall years ago there were some very rich Frenchmen interested alongside Christian Karembeu. Something tells me I don't think money would've been the issue there 

What were the details of the Pacific bid? 

I think ultimately the FFA wants more teams. However, teams still have to have good infrastructure, grow tv rights etc. Any new team would have to prove they have those things.

I don't know if enough details were made known. I think the idea got shot down pretty quick. It was around the time Fury and GCU joined, possibly looking to be based out of Noumea.

Terrible idea.

Why?

6000 plus at WIN Stadium in the 'gong "on a cold Wednesday night" to watch South Coast Wolves lose to CCM in FFA cup. 

see latest at www.nswpl.com.au

I think having another team up on the gold coast could work. The fans only stayed away because Palmer didn't want more than 5k being bussed to the games as he would then lose the financial sweetner that they were getting on the transport. There were plenty of fans that wanted to go to the games but the stadium being a bit out of the way and the travel involved.

You could increase the league to 13 teams, A Gold Coast team, a Wollangong team and dare I say it, give Auckland another shot (or Christchurch) and get rid of the three games V each team per season. 24 game season.

Go to a simple 1 home and 1 away game against the other sides. For finals, keep it real simple. Abandon the stupid way it is currently done and have 1v3, 2v4 semis and then a final if you have to have some sort of scenario like that.

Or you could just increase it to 12 teams = 22 games per club each season + 2 semis and a final. Not forgetting the FFA Cup as well. It might mean less games or you could go the other way and play each other 4 times - 2 home and 2 away.

Just my few thoughts to keep the debate interesting.

Playing each other 3 times is not ideal but it is okay because we have a playoffs system. Obviously some teams are still benefited by having one extra home game but it does give teams who have had a tough draw another chance. I have said before that the ideal for the A-League would be a 14 team, 26 game regular season. The problem is that right now we don't have four places crying out for new teams. I think 22 games with only 11 home games per team would just be too low. On the other hand, I think it is good to avoid mid week matches and playing less than 30 gives us a point of difference to many European leagues. Players like del Piero, Ifill and Damien Duff don't want to play 45 games a season any more.

I think Gold Coast could work again in the future. Their problem in the past with a variety of sports teams has been that the Gold Coast is quite a soulless place. I think most people have only just moved there and don't have a lot of loyalty. It has taken rugby league several failures to establish a team there. It is a growing region, however, and also provides a nice derby for Brisbane without just dividing the Roar's support in two. Like any team, the Gold Coast would need strong financial backing from someone. I think Palmer didn't help but Gold Coast's problems were deeper than that. I think in ten years time it could be time to try again. Canberra/Wollongong probably have the most compelling cases for the moment, followed by Townsville.

The problem is shortening an already short season - or should I say lengthening an already long off season.

Things like the FFA Cup and the league breaking for international windows would help.