Auckland FC - Once the Knights, Always the Knights

I guess Doloras’s group hits a conflict that exists in football world wide and I’d say more so overseas than NZ too. 

Internationally more than NZ football is a working class game. In Russia teams are still called after the factories. In Britain the 19th C factory owner set the local team up to give workers something to do in their half day off. 

It’s much like hip hop, everyone is insanely wealthy, but the credibility comes from the Rashfords or the Dele Allis- players who the streets remember their names. There’s a massive disconnect between the forces of capitalism and geopolitics involved, but the credibility of the game, particularly in Britain comes from Neville, Carragher, Wrighty and Keane- the working class traditions of the game. 

It’s a culture conflict that is far from worked itself out imo. 

Yeah for sure, but we are talking about NZ. Lets be honest football (soccer) in NZ has tended to be played by kids from wealthier type backgrounds. Certainly mostly Pakeha/Asian backgrounds (though yes not solely). League and a lesser extent rugby, have been the games of the poor regions/suburbs. Not sure if there are any football teams on the East Coast, or around Murupara.

Football in NZ should have NZ flavour, not something contrived and imported from other parts. I'm not sure Mt Smart needs loud Ultras with long political manifestos, at any end of the spectrum.

Especially if you risk confrontation and generally pissing off some fans (many with kids), who just want to watch a game of football, in a non toxic environment.
If you want to make your point & create division head down to Aotea Square.

coochiee

Yeah for sure, but we are talking about NZ. Lets be honest football (soccer) in NZ has tended to be played by kids from wealthier type backgrounds. Certainly mostly Pakeha/Asian backgrounds (though yes not solely). League and a lesser extent rugby, have been the games of the poor regions/suburbs. Not sure if there are any football teams on the East Coast, or around Murupara.

Football in NZ should have NZ flavour, not something contrived and imported from other parts. I'm not sure Mt Smart needs loud Ultras with long political manifestos, at any end of the spectrum.

Especially if you risk confrontation and generally pissing off some fans (many with kids), who just want to watch a game of football, in a non toxic environment.
If you want to make your point & create division head down to Aotea Square.

So asserting your identity is a toxic thing? And you assume that the way these guys want to assert their identity will be toxic. 

I mean that’s my point with the rugby. Don’t rock the boat on that ‘No Māoris, no tour’ thing. The best way is to go there and beat them. That was the prevailing wisdom. No politics in sport meant the white status quo meant appeasement for Apartheid and why John Walker won his medal against an empty field because African nations sure didn’t see NZ’s behaviour that way. But in NZ that was no politics in sport. No conflict. 

They say they’re coming from club football in Auckland to support an Auckland team. Perhaps scale back on the prejudging?

It's an interesting one.  Because I only associate Ultras with the violence and what not seen in other countries it sounds ways more extreme than it probably is.

But the other thing is I have NFI who is behind the Port group.  Some top brass might be known to be assholes or  bigots in the Aucks football scene or something and so an extreme lost of values might be needed.  No idea.

When Thorndon Terrace or whatever it was started here I was intrigued so was gonna go along there.  Then I found out why the leader of that support group was no longer on the podcast and quickly changed my mind.

The anti-capitalist anti-billionaire thing I understand a bit more.  They're just making it super clear that they love and support football in Aucks, but don't like their only pro club being owned by an overseas billionaire. 

Either way, I hope Dolores stays as a Nix fan and little hooligan continues keeping the Aucks Nix fandom alive.

If the club is large enough to support two supporters groups and perhaps results in people coming along to the game who normally wouldn’t then all for the concept.

Nice name as well.

It would be nice to see a supporter group not sucking up to the co owners, Ali Williams and his wife as well.

Some people take this forum, and life, far too seriously.

Good on them. An actual supporters group not founded from the clubs bling. 

The young socialists behind this, unlike many young socialists, are not jerks (lol) and are very aware of the irony of being Leftie fans of a billionaire's franchise. But isn't it the negative stereotype of Lefties that they refuse to have fun and stay away from anything normal people like? They're also supporters of Manukau United, so that's your coalface football right there.

I can't imagine there'll be conflict with other fans. The Port are studiously non-political (they actually booted T-AFC types from their Facebook page for even raising issues) and I imagine they'll be having too much fun in Bay 22 to notice the Palestine flags or Pay Equity For Women's Football banners in Bay 25. But one of the defining features of Nix fandom for me was that match at NHS where our old mate Balbi confronted Nix fans who were doing homophobic chants, which is where the whole Rainbow Fever thing came from. I think that was a *good* thing. (Balbi is of course a supporter of Dulwich Hamlet, a notoriously Leftie club!)

And as for "Football in NZ should have NZ flavour, not something contrived and imported from other parts": true, but that's a weird criticism, given that this group are very much supporters of Tino Rangatiratanga while overwhelmingly other A-League active supporters (let's face it, including us) take most of our traditions from British and European fandom.

I was not involved in starting this venture but it's fair to say that I'm sympathetic to it and I'll probably join them sometimes when the Nix aren't in town.

A supporters group identifying with a political persuasion smacks of trying to import a foreign support model/footballing culture to try and legitimise themselves. I agree with whoever said it’s cringe. I really don’t see the appeal of trying to identify a football supporters group towards any political direction. I’d much rather associate with a diversity of political opinion and I think failure to do so leads to the massive divide we see in the US and elsewhere.

I really don’t care what way my fellow fans vote and I’m a big fan of self policing I.e. standing up to other fans who are making racist/homophobic calls as people in YF have in the past.

People like coochie, avowed conservative, are worried that Tamaki AFC will cause problems. I wouldn't expect they would, but if they do, I imagine it will be because people sitting nearby in the crowd react angrily to the sentiments that they will be expressing. You know the sort of people I mean, those who hate hearing any language but English, the people who call up certain radio stations, the people who make NZH and Stuff lock Facebook comments on certain articles. And unfortunately, quite often when there is an aggressive response from far right types towards lefties like this, the left is blamed for "provoking" it. 

Hopefully Tamaki AFC are mindful of this though, and that people around can live and let live. 

All the football culture is imported. All the chants come from British ones. A lot of the model of the league is based on the MLS. Let’s go further than that- Kate Sheppard’s movement came to us from San Francisco. Nothing we do in NZ is particularly original. Even our Polynesian culture exists throughout the Pacific. 

Cringe is in the eye of the beholder as is for those of us who can remember Buffy and Leggy’s slanging matches, taking things too seriously. 

If there wasn’t that big a reaction to the group announcement, I’m sure nobody would care. And in the paraphrased words of Mitchell and Webb. 

 ‘How do  the payments for these politically aware season tickets show up in the accounts? 
The same. They show up just the same as all the others.’

As long as we’re not being as daft as Melbourne or WSW and stopping games with flares or any of that numpty rubbish that prevents others from enjoying the game, then as long as you’re a football fan fine as far as I’m concerned. 

I think it’s a similar discussion to how Tyler Boyd and Tomer Hemed acknowledged their faith post-goals. People are within their rights to acknowledge who they are imo, but also want to keep that within the context of a team game. 

You write a lot of words to say absolutely fudge all Martin.

Buffon II

You write a lot of words to say absolutely fudge all Martin.

I’m saying live and let live. That okay with you? Judge shark from your perspective all you want, but if that’s what they wanna do it can’t be sillier than the Posnan.

And actually a fair few things besides, but yeh shutting up has never been my forte. 

Edit: or is what’s annoying you getting a return of serve? You’re allowed to slag these new guys off, but no one’s allowed to say that you weren’t perfect either? 

Fair point regarding most of our sporting culture being imported. I’ll settle on this being cringe as well as classic signalling of their own righteousness to their peers. But I’m sure we all do that in one form or another.

Regardless, Auckland’s my second team in the A-League and I hope they do well.

AucklandPhoenix

If the club is large enough to support two supporters groups and perhaps results in people coming along to the game who normally wouldn’t then all for the concept.

Nice name as well.

It would be nice to see a supporter group not sucking up to the co owners, Ali Williams and his wife as well.

The Kingz had three supporters groups going on; Bloc 5, Block 23, and the Tunnel Rats. So the club doesn't have to be large, people just have to be motivated. 

The only risk with having 14 players signed and releasing their names bit by bit is that you're likely going to have spoilers before you can annunce them all.

I'll never forget that time I ended up on the same flight to back to NZ as Adam Kwasnik and I basically announced to the forum what I believe was a pretty secretive deal at the time.. 

Auckland is big, but not THAT big.
Imagine if someone runs into Brimmer (or anyone else) at Bunnings or Rojas at a cafe, before they've made it official 

Yeah but preseason won't be starting for a while and I imagine most of those yet to be announced are not even in Auckland yet.  

WanderingSheep

Good on them. An actual supporters group not founded from the clubs bling. 

But The P.o.r.t ain't funded by the club's bling. Where does that myth come form? They were just a group of football fans who met over a beer and decided to form a fans group. Have a listen to Devlin's chat to them below. Then yeah they approach the club to make sure they are okay with it, help to try sort out a designated standing area in Penrose blah blah. Probably not that different to how the Yellow Fever started.
https://www.listennotes.com/da/podcasts/its-only-sport/martin-devlin-chats-with-7iaP5sOTtzb/

I think one of their main guys was a a fan in the old Bloc 5, with the Knights or something. Good to hear Doloras mentioned they are already policing what sort of people join their group. All I've read is that they seem welcoming, and open to all genuine football fans. I doubt it will be them who gives the left wing ultras grief at Mt Smart.

For sure the politics of Tamaki AFC are a million miles from my views. But that's not soo much the point. It's just the thought of having any fan group, based heavily off politics loudly airing their views pre, during or post match. It's just going to lead to trouble, and I don't think that's a good thing, when there is so much to be excited about with a 2nd NZ team, and the big exciting derbies.

I mean would ALL Nix fans be hunky dory with 10 Chloe Swarbricks walking up the ROF causeway waving Palestinian flags chanting 'from the river the sea', joined by 10 Marama Davidsons chanting 'down with white CIS men'. ALL the Nix fans will just happily walk by smiling without a rude word spoken? The same on the way out after some have necked 5 beers?? Who hasn't post match seen a half drunk fan grab some merch like a big flag, off an opposing team's fan, that leading to bit of an 'agrument'.

The rugby dominant media would just love to film some scuffles or worst at these new novelty soccer matches. If Doloras's young socialist comrades are there primarily to watch the football great, but it's not the right place to have emotional politics as the main focus. They will just find trouble.


Edit - and yeah AFC are owned by a billionaire, but news flash Rob Morrison is also a very wealthy man, and I suspect a capitalist. A multi-millionaire?  It's all just varying numbers of zeros at that level.

"I mean would ALL Nix fans be hunky dory with 10 Chloe Swarbricks walking up the ROF causeway waving Palestinian flags chanting 'from the river the sea', joined by 10 Marama Davidsons chanting 'down with white CIS men'. "

Thank you for that look inside your imagination lol

To me it's like excessive swearing. In certain company I can cuss with the best. Conjugating the F bomb. But at a football game I'll look around, and if there are families with kids, I'll refrain. It's just showing some respect for others.

Many people at a football game won't want someone else's politics thrown in their face. They are there for an enjoyable day out a game, an event with unity, everyone getting behind their team. Loudly espousing your political views, when there is bound to be people there who disagree, becomes borderline narcissistic making it all about me, and how I must be heard. Really hope this is not what Tamaki AFC are about, and they just become another ALM fan group. But again sense this may not go so well.

Doloras

"I mean would ALL Nix fans be hunky dory with 10 Chloe Swarbricks walking up the ROF causeway waving Palestinian flags chanting 'from the river the sea', joined by 10 Marama Davidsons chanting 'down with white CIS men'. "

Thank you for that look inside your imagination lol

Denada

"I think one of their main guys was a a fan in the old Bloc 5, with the Knights or something."
Neither of those guys on the Devlin interview were Bloc 5, unless there is someone else involved? Sounds like they have their hearts in the right place, but I'm not sure about "writing" chants based on Top-40 songs.....the best and wittiest chants come almost by chance, rather than pre-planned. 

If someone in your company can work out every single political opinion you hold within the first two minutes of meeting you then you're at best dull and at worst insufferable.

20 Legend

If someone in your company can work out every single political opinion you hold within the first two minutes of meeting you then you're at best dull and at worst insufferable.

Like voting to the right, means you can't believe strongly in concepts like green energy or that Trump is an unhinged madman or that teachers/nurses shouldn't be paid more or personal use cannabis should be legalised. 

coochiee

Doloras

"I mean would ALL Nix fans be hunky dory with 10 Chloe Swarbricks walking up the ROF causeway waving Palestinian flags chanting 'from the river the sea', joined by 10 Marama Davidsons chanting 'down with white CIS men'. "

Thank you for that look inside your imagination lol

Denada

But also tut-tutting from above and looking to shut down a perspective using ‘civility’ as the main driver is equally a worry. Finding discussing the structure of power crass means you’ve got it usually! Kids can wear mullets. Grown men can wear sandals and jeans. Doesn’t mean we should ban them from football games. 

I do agree that the use of the word ultra a bit incongruous and a concern, but we’re dealing with something new for NZ. 

Wellington is a bit of a smaller knit community. I don’t think a lot of groups make sense. But Auckland is spread out and a lot of different things. I’m sure they’ll be able to cope with a few different groups enjoying the football for different reasons. 

I remember the A league, coming out of the ethnically aligned clubs which preceded them had a policy on the exclusion of foreign flags. I’m not sure if that is still the case.

Anyway, I’m sure AFC will be happy to have the fans if they’re regular supporters and maybe there’ll be some discussion around fan codes of conduct if anyone gets too concerned. 

Edit: and if they want to have a standing zone then surely they’ve already approached the club? 

newzealandpower

The only risk with having 14 players signed and releasing their names bit by bit is that you're likely going to have spoilers before you can annunce them all.

I'll never forget that time I ended up on the same flight to back to NZ as Adam Kwasnik and I basically announced to the forum what I believe was a pretty secretive deal at the time.. 

Auckland is big, but not THAT big.
Imagine if someone runs into Brimmer (or anyone else) at Bunnings or Rojas at a cafe, before they've made it official 

Adam Kwasnik. Now that's a blast from the past.

Anyone remember George the Brazilian? He hardly played a minute. One game he got subbed on in around the 70th minute, had one touch which was a header that went in. The guy went absolutely balistic with his celebration. Only to find out a bit later it was a heavily deflected header and actually an own goal. I don't think he played another match for us.

Ninja

newzealandpower

The only risk with having 14 players signed and releasing their names bit by bit is that you're likely going to have spoilers before you can annunce them all.

I'll never forget that time I ended up on the same flight to back to NZ as Adam Kwasnik and I basically announced to the forum what I believe was a pretty secretive deal at the time.. 

Auckland is big, but not THAT big.
Imagine if someone runs into Brimmer (or anyone else) at Bunnings or Rojas at a cafe, before they've made it official 

Adam Kwasnik. Now that's a blast from the past.

Anyone remember George the Brazilian? He hardly played a minute. One game he got subbed on in around the 70th minute, had one touch which was a header that went in. The guy went absolutely balistic with his celebration. Only to find out a bit later it was a heavily deflected header and actually an own goal. I don't think he played another match for us.

George’s greatest accomplishment was getting his own Fever tee

4 legs good, 2 legs bad…..

Napier Phoenix

4 legs good, 2 legs bad…..

Guy who wrote that was a socialist who volunteered for the Spanish civil war to shoot fascists

Another player announcement tomorrow

Not the array of clues like there was for their first player announcements...

Also, why the fudge does the twitter embed feature not work anymore? 

CKLAND FC!

The graphics this club uses, gives me a flipin headache.

Best they just use a plain blue background and write the stuff in white bold letters

I’m guessing Moses Dyer.

Screenshot_2024-06-03-13-08-41-12_0b2fce7a16bf2b728d6ffa28c8d60efb.jpg 228.66 KB

One guy has it worked out it seems. 

Pretty underwhelming if that's the case. He's had a great career, but I didn't think he was much chop for Macarthur tbh.

Definitely not an import quality player but ok as a squad. Who knows, might pull a Wooten this season and have the best form of his career late in it 

loyalgunner

I’m guessing Moses Dyer.

See YH's detective work on Tommy Smith above. Luis Toomey & Callan Elliot seem other Kiwis likely to be announced soon.

Smith got badly shown up by someone quick & tricky when playing for MAC late in the season. He'll need to work hard in the pre season (esp speed work), to make sure he can be effective in what is becoming an ever younger ALM. He is always worth a useful headed goal or two per season at set pieces.

Not sure about the two CPL guys Bevan & Dyer, but I'd like to see them get a crack. Be a nice redemption story for Moses if he came back to NZ and did well at AFC. Wasn't his fault he got chucked into the AWs, so young by Hudson. But yeah Corica maybe looking to fill most of his attacking spots with top visa or off contract Aussie ALM players.
 

I thought Tommy was pretty solid for Macarthur, with the exception of his awful defending in enabling Mak to score in the elimination final. You'd maybe hope he is no better than third choice CB though. 

Doloras

The young socialists behind this, unlike many young socialists, are not jerks (lol) and are very aware of the irony of being Leftie fans of a billionaire's franchise. But isn't it the negative stereotype of Lefties that they refuse to have fun and stay away from anything normal people like? They're also supporters of Manukau United, so that's your coalface football right there.

I can't imagine there'll be conflict with other fans. The Port are studiously non-political (they actually booted T-AFC types from their Facebook page for even raising issues) and I imagine they'll be having too much fun in Bay 22 to notice the Palestine flags or Pay Equity For Women's Football banners in Bay 25. But one of the defining features of Nix fandom for me was that match at NHS where our old mate Balbi confronted Nix fans who were doing homophobic chants, which is where the whole Rainbow Fever thing came from. I think that was a *good* thing. (Balbi is of course a supporter of Dulwich Hamlet, a notoriously Leftie club!)

And as for "Football in NZ should have NZ flavour, not something contrived and imported from other parts": true, but that's a weird criticism, given that this group are very much supporters of Tino Rangatiratanga while overwhelmingly other A-League active supporters (let's face it, including us) take most of our traditions from British and European fandom.

I was not involved in starting this venture but it's fair to say that I'm sympathetic to it and I'll probably join them sometimes when the Nix aren't in town.

I find it interesting - I have no problem with people doing something they believe in, I did chuckle at the list of things they stood for when they said they support Manukau Utd.  But yeah all the best to them.