There's also the fact that releasing a player would incur a termination fee and lost resources in terms of development. We also don't know what kind of money and playing time Payne (or his agent) is asking for.
2014/15 Transfer Speculation
The fact you just rattled off 3 players that we already have as cover for that position is probably a big reason. Regardless of whether he is better than them or not.
Do we really need over a quarter of our playing roster used up on 1-2 position/s on the field?
EM is hoping to get a starting AM. So, you have an AM/DM and B2BM... that will be newbie/Albie/Alex, backups are Rufer/Lia/Hicks/Ridenton... the only point in having Payne is by making Alex your AM - which is contrary to all the noises EM is making about the type of player he wants to sign.
Notwithstanding the potential (though unlikely) signing of WeeMac who can cover midfield also. And (Agent) Smith's attempts to get Eager in a stripey also (though he is currently playing as CB). Not forgetting EM has said in the past that Boxall has all the "tools" to be an effective A-league DM (before he was a RB lol).
Sorry TP, simply stink timing mate.
If Payne was signed he would probably be the best bet at AM if Gorrin plays deeper.
The Krishna signing was odd, mostly because pretty much the moment he signed the new contract Ernie stopped playing him even though he'd looked a lot better than Brockie who came in. If he had stayed starting and maintained the same performance level until the end of the season less people would probably be questioning using an import slot on him. As it is, it's hard to judge what Ernie's plan for him is and why he was signed.
I don't get this assumption that because I player got released by a Championship youth team they're the solution to our midfield options.
The reality is we have enough 'development' options in this space and we need proven quality. Yes he's an All White. Whoop. But let's stop assuming he's genuinely a better player than what we have in Riera, Gorrin, and Lia.
The fact you just rattled off 3 players that we already have as cover for that position is probably a big reason. Regardless of whether he is better than them or not.
Do we really need over a quarter of our playing roster used up on 1-2 position/s on the field?
EM is hoping to get a starting AM. So, you have an AM/DM and B2BM... that will be newbie/Albie/Alex, backups are Rufer/Lia/Hicks/Ridenton... the only point in having Payne is by making Alex your AM - which is contrary to all the noises EM is making about the type of player he wants to sign.
Notwithstanding the potential (though unlikely) signing of WeeMac who can cover midfield also. And (Agent) Smith's attempts to get Eager in a stripey also (though he is currently playing as CB). Not forgetting EM has said in the past that Boxall has all the "tools" to be an effective A-league DM (before he was a RB lol).
Sorry TP, simply stink timing mate.
Assuming Carlos wanting to leave was after that, we are wanting a box to box mid and a #10 then. Payne surely could fill a box to box role if we are unable to secure the player we were in talks with.
Exactly, RR, I knew we had stated we wanted another box to box mid after we signed Gorrin
So Gorrin is (apparently) box to box attacking midfielder with a strong defensive game. Going by reports. Wow.
I don't get this assumption that because I player got released by a Championship youth team they're the solution to our midfield options.
The reality is we have enough 'development' options in this space and we need proven quality. Yes he's an All White. Whoop. But let's stop assuming he's genuinely a better player than what we have in Riera, Gorrin, and Lia.
Is he better than Riera, Gorrin and Lia? Only time will tell but he is good enough to be starting for the All Whites at 20, so its strange that he is not good enough for the Phoenix to want him. Ernie better have some good Aussie options lined up instead because he is probably the best Kiwi option to add depth to our midfield.
Payne is miles and miles and miles better than Lia. For instance, Payne can get from one end of the pitch in less than a day and and half.
So Gorrin is (apparently) box to box attacking midfielder with a strong defensive game. Going by reports. Wow.
Not wanting to put pressure on the lad, but I've heard him quitely described as Broich with a side order of Milligan thrown in, and what Jedinak dreamed he was at this stage in his career....
Love it how krishna has been written off by so many
Personally I can't wait to see how he goes next season
No one has written off Krishna. I think we have discussed this numerous times. I don't think the Krishna signing made sense. We are basically going to go into next season with our imports being two strikers, one winger (who often plays like a wide striker) and two defensive midfielders. It's a poor fit for our import players. We have got ourselves into a situation where we need an attacking midfielder and a striker (and a centre back but everyone seems to be ignoring the defensive woes/hoping that Gorrin/Riera can take the pressure off our centre backs). So we need two crucial players but only have one import spot left. If we don't sign McGlinchey then on paper we will have the worst squad in the A-league next season.
What we should have done with Krishna is waited to see whether we needed him in the squad. He wasn't going anywhere and if he did we could sign this Tade bloke who some people seem to rate. A two year deal for an import who is unlikely to start is madness and it has boxed us into a corner. I think everyone hopes he does well but a player doing well and being are good signing are different things.
would rather have payne than ridenton.
Krishna- a low cost not terrible option with pace that Ernie likes, so that there is cap to approach Gorrin, Wee Mac etc etc. And I think it's been said about Gorrin that he's not a DM, or at least not solely a DM.
Love it how krishna has been written off by so many
Personally I can't wait to see how he goes next season
No one has written off Krishna. I think we have discussed this numerous times. I don't think the Krishna signing made sense. We are basically going to go into next season with our imports being two strikers, one winger (who often plays like a wide striker) and two defensive midfielders. It's a poor fit for our import players. We have got ourselves into a situation where we need an attacking midfielder and a striker (and a centre back but everyone seems to be ignoring the defensive woes/hoping that Gorrin/Riera can take the pressure off our centre backs). So we need two crucial players but only have one import spot left. If we don't sign McGlinchey then on paper we will have the worst squad in the A-league next season.
What we should have done with Krishna is waited to see whether we needed him in the squad. He wasn't going anywhere and if he did we could sign this Tade bloke who some people seem to rate. A two year deal for an import who is unlikely to start is madness and it has boxed us into a corner. I think everyone hopes he does well but a player doing well and being are good signing are different things.
Please can ACFC keep Tade, he's the best striker in the country right now. If you witnessed his goal celebration when he scored the winner in the O League final on Sunday you'd appreciate how much he loves the club. Let him become another ACFC legend like the late KJordan.
As for Krishna, he's been in the country for over five years so surely he must be a citizen soon and no longer taking up an A League import slot. I also rate him above Brockie.
Love it how krishna has been written off by so many
Personally I can't wait to see how he goes next season
No one has written off Krishna. I think we have discussed this numerous times. I don't think the Krishna signing made sense. We are basically going to go into next season with our imports being two strikers, one winger (who often plays like a wide striker) and two defensive midfielders. It's a poor fit for our import players. We have got ourselves into a situation where we need an attacking midfielder and a striker (and a centre back but everyone seems to be ignoring the defensive woes/hoping that Gorrin/Riera can take the pressure off our centre backs). So we need two crucial players but only have one import spot left. If we don't sign McGlinchey then on paper we will have the worst squad in the A-league next season.
What we should have done with Krishna is waited to see whether we needed him in the squad. He wasn't going anywhere and if he did we could sign this Tade bloke who some people seem to rate. A two year deal for an import who is unlikely to start is madness and it has boxed us into a corner. I think everyone hopes he does well but a player doing well and being are good signing are different things.
Please can ACFC keep Tade, he's the best striker in the country right now. If you witnessed his goal celebration when he scored the winner in the O League final on Sunday you'd appreciate how much he loves the club. Let him become another ACFC legend like the late KJordan.
As for Krishna, he's been in the country for over five years so surely he must be a citizen soon and no longer taking up an A League import slot. I also rate him above Brockie.
Rating him above Brockie would be pretty easy.
Gorrin is box to box and can play AM.
"Alex [Gorrin] is a good, creative, defensive midfielder," Merrick said.http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/football/10044502/Phoenix-looking-for-last-pieces-of-roster-jigsaw
Quite a bit of pressure on this guy to be a very good player, if he's not then questions will be asked because it's quite a leap of faith. I'm expecting big things and this is the type of decision that will make or break Ernie's tenure.
I'm just really disappointed that the club isn't in a position to sign a promising young kiwi who is also an All White and I think it's really short sighted decision. If he was an Aussie there would have been a queue of teams looking to sign him. If he cannot get a chance with us, where does he get that chance?
I don't get this assumption that because I player got released by a Championship youth team they're the solution to our midfield options.
The reality is we have enough 'development' options in this space and we need proven quality. Yes he's an All White. Whoop. But let's stop assuming he's genuinely a better player than what we have in Riera, Gorrin, and Lia.
Proven quality like Gorrin, who has never played a senior game of football?? Let's be honest, most of the reason everyone is so excited about this guy is no-one has ever seen him play.
I think the problem is that Ernie has over extended his squad with young, promising players. Gone are the older players like Stein, Hernandez, Bertos and highly likely Ifill. So in a nutshell we have gone from one extreme to another. I think Ernie understands that and knows the next signings need to be somewhere in the middle
I think a two year contract for Hicks was clearly a mistake, even if he is cheap
If he was an Aussie there would have been a queue of teams looking to sign him. If he cannot get a chance with us, where does he get that chance?
That's debatable. Jamie MacLaren who was also at Blackburn last year and got released wasn't exactly the most in demand player.
But I get what you are saying.
If he was an Aussie there would have been a queue of teams looking to sign him. If he cannot get a chance with us, where does he get that chance?
That's debatable. Jamie MacLaren who was also at Blackburn last year and got released wasn't exactly the most in demand player.
But I get what you are saying.
I guess I was meaning, if a Socceroo was off contract and available A-League clubs would be lining up.
But your point about MacLaren is a good and fair one.
So what you are saying if a form All White who was one of our best and most threatening players in our last WC campaign was off contract in an area we are looking for...?
Krishna- a low cost not terrible option with pace that Ernie likes, so that there is cap to approach Gorrin, Wee Mac etc etc. And I think it's been said about Gorrin that he's not a DM, or at least not solely a DM.
My thinking was next season we would likely play a 4-2-3-1. Now Hernandez is gone there is no one to play that central attacking role. Obviously, McGlinchey would slot in there should we nab in. However, I think given our current squad it would be better to put Gorrin into Hernandez's role and play someone else alongside Riera.
Anyway, are we really close to the cap? I guess it is feasible we could be close to the salary cap since we don't have a marquee player. I'm just scratching my head as to why our squad was so bad this season if we were spending the same amount as Brisbane Roar or Adelaide. Did Adelaide have a marquee?
If he was an Aussie there would have been a queue of teams looking to sign him. If he cannot get a chance with us, where does he get that chance?
That's debatable. Jamie MacLaren who was also at Blackburn last year and got released wasn't exactly the most in demand player.
But I get what you are saying.
I guess I was meaning, if a Socceroo was off contract and available A-League clubs would be lining up.
But your point about MacLaren is a good and fair one.
Since when does being picked for the All Whites mean you are a shoe in for the Nix ??
They probably would line up for a Socceroo as it is harder to get in that team = higher quality player
Based on a few observations and other conversations, it wouldn't surprise me at all to see us move to a more traditional 451 /433 formation. In fact we saw Ernie try it in our final game against victory when Kenny was wide right and Boyd was on the left.
I was fortunate to get a take on Ernie's personal views of Krishna. He mentioned that he thinks with a full preseason under his belt then he will be quite a dangerous player for us. He also noted that he was impressed with him in the wing role i mentioned earlier in the game against victory. Quote: "I actually thought he did a decent job for us there with a bit more defensive duties, and Roy has never been asked to defend before in his life".
So it wouldn't surprise me at all to see Roy as a cutting in winger next year.
Anyway, are we really close to the cap? I guess it is feasible we could be close to the salary cap since we don't have a marquee player. I'm just scratching my head as to why our squad was so bad this season if we were spending the same amount as Brisbane Roar or Adelaide. Did Adelaide have a marquee?
We have lost Ifill, Huysegems and Carlos from our cap and replaced them with only Gorrin so far. We should have tons available to spend, Wee Mac has been offered 350k.Minimum cap spend is 80% but most teams spend near the maximum. The main difference between us and the Roar is they use all the legal cap rorts, 2 marquees and the home grown players allowance. That pretty much means they have the full cap to spread over 18 players. If we are not using the home grown player allowance, we have our cap spread over 23 players.
I don't get this assumption that because I player got released by a Championship youth team they're the solution to our midfield options.
The reality is we have enough 'development' options in this space and we need proven quality. Yes he's an All White. Whoop. But let's stop assuming he's genuinely a better player than what we have in Riera, Gorrin, and Lia.
Because that's what happens on here. Then six months later the same people are asking why we signed the donkey.
Love it how krishna has been written off by so many
Personally I can't wait to see how he goes next season
(---)
What we should have done with Krishna is waited to see whether we needed him in the squad. He wasn't going anywhere and if he did we could sign this Tade bloke who some people seem to rate. A two year deal for an import who is unlikely to start is madness and it has boxed us into a corner. I think everyone hopes he does well but a player doing well and being are good signing are different things.
I am not 100% about Krishna's status, otherwise my comment would be better grounded - but it makes me think that Ernie signed hime knowing that Krishna is likely to get his papers sorted soon (so he won't be rated an import). Then it makes sense to lock him in for 2 years so soon. If that's not the case, then.... then I'm with Ryan54 on this.
I think he is an import for this upcoming season, but a local in the final season of his deal. Kind of like using up an import spot now, so we can effectively gain one later.
I don't get this assumption that because I player got released by a Championship youth team they're the solution to our midfield options.
The reality is we have enough 'development' options in this space and we need proven quality. Yes he's an All White. Whoop. But let's stop assuming he's genuinely a better player than what we have in Riera, Gorrin, and Lia.
Because that's what happens on here. Then six months later the same people are asking why we signed the donkey.
We watched him play together at the Olympics Greenie, you don't think he could do a job?
I think he is an import for this upcoming season, but a local in the final season of his deal. Kind of like using up an import spot now, so we can effectively gain one later.
Hmm well that's a bit different. I guess I can understand the decision now but we are still in a difficult position for this season
I would've seriously looked at Payne. He's an upgrade on all those back ups and if he'd strengthen the squad then why wouldn't you look at him? Especially as a non-import.
If it pushes Hicks and Rufer further down pecking order then that's a great result - they're still around to develop but I think in a squad of 23 you can carry players who won't get much game time. Look at that guy who scored for Roar against us. I think that was the only game he played all season.
I do not understand the mentality of "we've got enough players in that position or age group". If he's better than your other options get amongst and strengthen the squad. The others then have to get better or more versatile.
Of course if he pulls out three amazing signings then fair play to him but until then I sceptical it's the right call.
I picked up Payne on FM14 and he hasn't really stood out for us.
Ernie decided Riera was good enough for this league and that has come up trumps.
Now Ernie has had one look at Krishna, who's come from the same level and team, and decided he's worth a 2 year deal instantly, that for me is exciting. If Ernie decides this guy gets a deal quicker than Riera did then he must see something very decent in there. I've only seen him play for the phoenix and I saw nothing but excitement. Based on that alone I'm waiting in anticipation to see what this guy can give us next season.
I don't think anything should be read into the fact he was benched after his first couple of starts, the step up in physical fitness is obviously a large one, he was always destined to be managed somewhat until he gets up to speed with a full pre-season.
I don't get this assumption that because I player got released by a Championship youth team they're the solution to our midfield options.
The reality is we have enough 'development' options in this space and we need proven quality. Yes he's an All White. Whoop. But let's stop assuming he's genuinely a better player than what we have in Riera, Gorrin, and Lia.
Proven quality like Gorrin, who has never played a senior game of football?? Let's be honest, most of the reason everyone is so excited about this guy is no-one has ever seen him play.
I'd suggest if Merrick (who has seen footage) rates him over Payne then it's a fair assumption.
Guys, it's the All Whites, we're not exactly full of midfield options nor any further forward than we were 4 years ago. We've got to lift the expectations for the Nix and get off the 'young AW available SIGN HIM NOW bus'.
I don't get this assumption that because I player got released by a Championship youth team they're the solution to our midfield options.
Because that's what happens on here. Then six months later the same people are asking why we signed the donkey.
Yeah, but everyone on this forum is an ace football scout who knows what's best for the Nix. If only Ernie would listen to this forum - he's clearly clueless in that he doesn't do what all the wise men here tell him.
I don't get this assumption that because I player got released by a Championship youth team they're the solution to our midfield options.
Because that's what happens on here. Then six months later the same people are asking why we signed the donkey.
Yeah, but everyone on this forum is an ace football scout who knows what's best for the Nix. If only Ernie would listen to this forum - he's clearly clueless in that he doesn't do what all the wise men here tell him.
Think of all the decisions made and the results since Welnix took over. Does that fill you with confidence?
I picked up Payne on FM14 and he hasn't really stood out for us.
I picked up Payne on FM14 and he hasn't really stood out for us.
I think he is an import for this upcoming season, but a local in the final season of his deal. Kind of like using up an import spot now, so we can effectively gain one later.
Hmm well that's a bit different. I guess I can understand the decision now but we are still in a difficult position for this season