Another thought - the opportunity to partner up with WelTec here is massive. Their students could be getting training opportunities/work experience right on their doorstep, especially in the areas of hospitality, sports management, sports science, marketing, event management, turf management, physiotherapy etc.
$40-45 Million Soccer Specific Stadium - Petone Phoenix
I know it is fashionable to jump on the 'NIMBYs' but some of their concerns aren't unreasonable.
1) Parking - no obvious plan. Without serious investment in parking infrastructure, it woud be shambles given the current configuration.
2) Loss of green space. Yes, there will still be some but they will be losing a massive chunk. Like it or not, it's a valid concern.
3) PRFC and PCC loss of fields. They may be spreading misinformation about how many pitches are being used, but facts are that both clubs would lose playing fields. Whatever the case is elsewhere in the Hutt, Petone Rec is still one of the more heavily used Rugby assets in the community. Not just the #1 but the three other senior pitches and countless junior pitches. I can't comment for the cricket club, but I can't imagine it is dissimilar. Now you might not care about what happens to Petone Rugby but it is a massive club and the 2nd oldest in Wellington. It's concerns are valid and its political clout is hefty.
Now, as many of us have commented from the get-go, if the original announcement had included a plan for how parking would be dealt with then that could have been put to bed from the start. Similarly, PRFC could have been bought on board, or at least properly briefed then it is unlikely they would have kicked up such a stink.
To write off all people that are opposed as 'NIMBYs' is a bit harsh, sure it seems that a large proportion are but even then I still feel they may have reasonable concerns.
Cry me a river bop.
There are definitely some legitimate concerns. Nobody that I've seen has actually discounted any of them. That's why we have a resource consent process.
The fact of the matter is that the NIMBY collective have refused to fairly discuss the proposal. They've told porkies at every turn, and have whipped a small group of locals up into a frenzy.
Good on them I guess, they're going to get what they want. But they don't want it because of the Rugby or Cricket club. They want it because they want it at they have done what they needed to do to get there.
In and of itself that shouldn't have been any surprise to anyone. The sad thing is that all the people who thought that it was a good idea worth exploring will probably not get the opportunity to have those arguments heard. They won't get that opportunity because the stadium proponents (except for the Fever) have remained silent.
While they have remained publically silent, I would be surprised if they have not been lobbying the decision makers directly and in private. While there seems to be lots of objections, this is the case with every project that happens. Just because those objecting are the most vocal, does not always mean it will not happen. Welnix seem to have little idea about running a football club at times (we actually most of the time !) but there are some smart people involved there with a long history of getting shit done in the commercial world.
Then you should be surprised. Very surprised.
We were driving through the Hutt on Sunday so stopped to check out Petone Rec for the first time in years.
A few thoughts:
- We were there for about 20 mins at 3pm on a Sunday afternoon and literally saw two people walking dogs and about 10 seagulls. That's it. It may get used a lot at other times but clearly not all the time. To be fair, it was pretty cold and windy on Sunday but in some ways that just strengthens the case for the stadium. If it is built it locks in a minimum amount of usage of that space, regardless of other factors. At 3pm on a Sunday there could have been 10,000 people there. Over the course of a year there will be approx. 150,000 visits to the Rec just to watch football.
- The Rec is massive. I stood approximately where the northern side of the stadium would be and there was still 5 rugby pitches in front of me. Compared to a lot of other communities around the region that's still a big space to have available.
- The stand at the western end should probably be knocked down regardless of whether it is assessed as an earthquake risk or not. Either that or it needs a major upgrade. As it is now it would not be fit for purpose.
- If Petone Rugby/Cricket and Hutt City Council are facing the prospect of that stand possibly being demolished anyway maybe a way to sweeten the deal for them would be to include building a brand new stand/clubrooms in the proposal, located somewhere else on the rec. Yes, it would add to the cost but it still might be worth doing to get the whole thing over the line? It might also help to more clearly delineate the football and rugby/cricket parts of this development. At the moment I suspect that Petone rugby and cricket think this is all downside for them and that they won't ever actually get to use the new stadium themselves. So why not turn that right on it's head and say "you will actually be better off than you are now, sitting in your comfy new 500 seat stand and clubrooms". It's possible this sort of discussion is already happening in the background. Maybe Petone rugby are simply using their rejection of the proposal as a starting point for negotiation?
Isn't the real question should the council spend 25 million dollars on a stadium when the Phoenix already have a place to play? We all know Westpac is not very good at all for football but it has its upsides. I actually think the opposition to the stadium has been largely miscategorised. Very few people are NIMBYs. Most of the people you hear from who are opposed are anti-development. They would still oppose the stadium if it was built in Karori. I think most of the opposition which you don't always hear when you go to meetings stems from the $25 million price tag. The people of the Hutt have already contributed to a stadium in Wellington and they don't see the demand for another. What happens if the Phoenix stop existing? What happens if there are cost overruns?
We were driving through the Hutt on Sunday so stopped to check out Petone Rec for the first time in years.
A few thoughts:
- We were there for about 20 mins at 3pm on a Sunday afternoon and literally saw two people walking dogs and about 10 seagulls. That's it. It may get used a lot at other times but clearly not all the time. To be fair, it was pretty cold and windy on Sunday but in some ways that just strengthens the case for the stadium. If it is built it locks in a minimum amount of usage of that space, regardless of other factors. At 3pm on a Sunday there could have been 10,000 people there. Over the course of a year there will be approx. 150,000 visits to the Rec just to watch football.
- The Rec is massive. I stood approximately where the northern side of the stadium would be and there was still 5 rugby pitches in front of me. Compared to a lot of other communities around the region that's still a big space to have available.
- The stand at the western end should probably be knocked down regardless of whether it is assessed as an earthquake risk or not. Either that or it needs a major upgrade. As it is now it would not be fit for purpose.
- If Petone Rugby/Cricket and Hutt City Council are facing the prospect of that stand possibly being demolished anyway maybe a way to sweeten the deal for them would be to include building a brand new stand/clubrooms in the proposal, located somewhere else on the rec. Yes, it would add to the cost but it still might be worth doing to get the whole thing over the line? It might also help to more clearly delineate the football and rugby/cricket parts of this development. At the moment I suspect that Petone rugby and cricket think this is all downside for them and that they won't ever actually get to use the new stadium themselves. So why not turn that right on it's head and say "you will actually be better off than you are now, sitting in your comfy new 500 seat stand and clubrooms". It's possible this sort of discussion is already happening in the background. Maybe Petone rugby are simply using their rejection of the proposal as a starting point for negotiation?
Isn't the real question should the council spend 25 million dollars on a stadium when the Phoenix already have a place to play? We all know Westpac is not very good at all for football but it has its upsides. I actually think the opposition to the stadium has been largely miscategorised. Very few people are NIMBYs. Most of the people you hear from who are opposed are anti-development. They would still oppose the stadium if it was built in Karori. I think most of the opposition which you don't always hear when you go to meetings stems from the $25 million price tag. The people of the Hutt have already contributed to a stadium in Wellington and they don't see the demand for another. What happens if the Phoenix stop existing? What happens if there are cost overruns?
Ryan54 - this a direct quote from the "Don't Wreck our Petone Rec" Facebook page: "I think you will find that many of us agree there is a need for a smaller stadium just not here (I guess that makes us proud Nimby's) there is too much at stake for it to be built on our heavily used green space". That's the statement I'm challenging above.
That is straight up NIMBYism. I agree that the argument against the stadium would make more sense to me if it was purely that it was not needed from a regional perspective, but that's not what they're saying (and I would still disagree anyway).
As for the $25m price tag, considering the other half is being paid for privately that makes it a bargain for Hutt City (considering the potential benefits).
Build it in K-town!
They will come (or at least 4 of us)
Hutt News told me today that they pretty much publish all the letters on the arena plan that they get.
So my question was 'then why don't you publish mine?'. Three but one wasn't much of an effort....
Anyway they found one of them and that will appear next week... hope it's not the awful one.
Barry Pickering has a pro-stadium point of view in this week's paper.
Reads like it typed on my phone at Molly's
Page down to opinions. BP want investigation
So am walking home wearing my nix top when some well articulated gentleman decided to yell "soccer fag! Stay out of petone!" Out of his car window as he drove past.
So am walking home wearing my nix top when some well articulated gentleman decided to yell "soccer fag! Stay out of petone!" Out of his car window as he drove past.
haha now you know what it feels like to be a cyclist!
So am walking home wearing my nix top when some well articulated gentleman decided to yell "soccer fag! Stay out of petone!" Out of his car window as he drove past.
So am walking home wearing my nix top when some well articulated gentleman decided to yell "soccer fag! Stay out of petone!" Out of his car window as he drove past.
haha now you know what it feels like to be a cyclist!
Are cyclists not welcome in Petone either?
So am walking home wearing my nix top when some well articulated gentleman decided to yell "soccer fag! Stay out of petone!" Out of his car window as he drove past.
From the naysayers:
Many of us are due to make oral submissions on the draft annual plan sometime in the next two days- for the whole long 5 mins allocated. At least we’ve managed to get the hearings shifted to a Petone venue (the PWMC) which will save a lot of travel time. One suggestion we’ve heard that we think is worthwhile is to actually ask the Council not just to stop the Arena proposal (which submissions were very strongly against) but to now to develop a mechanism that will better preserve this open space for community use in the future.
If you’re not submitting then you’re still welcome to come and support those who are speaking, there should be a place where you can sit and observe. The hearings start at 9:30 on Wed and Thurs this week. For the really keen you can look at the submissions (most of the 1823 that came in!!) in the following link:
On behalf of a group of concerned residents,
Carl and Merran Bakker
Hi all, this just came out from the warriors:
http://www.warriors.co.nz/news/2014/06/03/smart_move_made_by_vodafone_warriors.html
They've trialled the bigger stadium and are going back to Mt Smart. Given you're comparing a 30,000 ground with a 50,000 seater it's the kind of situation the Nix are in with a smaller stadium vs a larger one.
Are the Warriors being looked to as a model to learn from for the Nix? There's lots of cross over here. It's also good to see other teams making similar decisions to suit their needs. It would be so good for the Nix if they could be in a similar position to choose between the Cake Tin and elsewhere.
It would be so good for the Nix if they could be in a similar position to choose between the Cake Tin and elsewhere.
They already are... the kicker (lolz) is that elsewhere isn't currently in Wellington.
The problem for the Warriors is that the NIMBYs may bugger them up as well with Auckland City folding to the Grey Lynn gentrification pressure and looking to move Speedway to Mt. Smart.
The problem for the Warriors is that the NIMBYs may bugger them up as well with Auckland City folding to the Grey Lynn gentrification pressure and looking to move Speedway to Mt. Smart.
They can p*ss right off, the noise pollution for me in Onehunga would be unreal.
Next up, bann concerts within city limits due to noise pollution.
Shoulda kept Carlaw Park
They can p*ss right off, the noise pollution for me in Onehunga would be unreal.
It would be quiter for Onehunga than Waikaraka Park is and would probably run the same nights in the main. The SPrings currently has much tighter noise restrictions on it than Waikaraka Park does.
Shoulda kept Carlaw Park
They can p*ss right off, the noise pollution for me in Onehunga would be unreal.
It would be quiter for Onehunga than Waikaraka Park is and would probably run the same nights in the main. The SPrings currently has much tighter noise restrictions on it than Waikaraka Park does.
Speedway should be at the far end of the NW motorway
Stockcars should be, but they have quite a lot of South Auckland as well as West Auckland os Wiakaraka is probably a good midpoint for them.
Speedway has a lot more North Shore as well as others corners plus more drivers from outside Auckland as it's the best place to race the US racing classes. It should be noted that Speedway has been where it is for around 80 years. Those who want it moved have not lived there for 80 years.
It seems the Hutt news only concentrated on the negative submissions made to the Council over the last week or so. Disappointing from them once again.
Not that they are biased. I also mentioned at the submission that I had 5 copies of my own submission with me which I handed over. The media were more than welcome to have grabbed one. Like I said, not that they are biased at all.....
Emotion (however misinformed, inaccurate, or unreasonable) sells.
Not quite as well as sex however...
Emotion (however misinformed, inaccurate, or unreasonable) sells.
Not quite as well as sex however...
They can p*ss right off, the noise pollution for me in Onehunga would be unreal.
It would be quiter for Onehunga than Waikaraka Park is and would probably run the same nights in the main. The SPrings currently has much tighter noise restrictions on it than Waikaraka Park does.
Haha I'm attempting to be a NIMBY. It appears I'm quite good.
Emotion (however misinformed, inaccurate, or unreasonable) sells.
Not quite as well as sex however...
All posing on Petone Rec?
Produce it and threaten to deliver them to everyone in petone who doesn't support the arena?
Shirts off at 80mins might already be the reason for a lot of the opposition.
Noticed the Petone NIMBYs Collective have made it on the official wikipedia NIMBY page.
PETONE ARENA (14/753)
Report No. CPC2014/3/87 (3) by the General Manager Community Services 116
CHAIR’S RECOMMENDATION:
“That the Committee recommends that Council: (i) thanks members
of the Community Facilities Trust for bringing forward the proposal for
consideration and the work they have done on the proposal; (ii)
thanks the Petone Community Board, individuals, clubs and organisations
who have submitted on the proposal as part of the Annual Plan process;
(iii) notes the status of the Council conditions, and in particular
that based on the consultation and feedback that there is not a
satisfactory level of community support for the proposal; (iv)
considers the additional information received in this report; (v) on
balance with all the information received to date, takes no further
action on the Petone Arena proposal; and (vi) notes that the work
undertaken including discussion with key community groups and
individuals has highlighted useful information which will help Council
provide for the community’s future needs and aspirations.”
Cheers Dairy, that cheered me up. I just heard on the local thugby broadcast that the nimbies and the thugby neandathols won.
Not that I am a poor loser but I hope that that earthquake condemned stand falls down and preferably on top of those piss heads that were giving fans shit about soccer being for poofters etc for not signing their petition. I don't mind losing to an intelligent debate but really, some of the submissions I heard against the proposal were pathetic at best.
I hope too thst when the condemned stand does fall down and the Thugbyites ask for a replacement that the Nimbies show consistancey and oppose that too. I know I will and I will make a submission against it using their own intelligent arguments back at them. You know the ones: "Because" and "Think of the children".
I'd also like to thank Gareth Morgan for his lack of support to fans whom went in batting for the idea and fronted up. Terry would have at least shown some form in this application.
Apologies in advance but I am pretty pissed off and disappointed. Probably the emotions getting the better of me at the moment.
Its fair enough to be pissed off LG. You put a lot of effort into making your submission and standing up presenting it. The lack of support would piss anyone off.
It's also annoying to try and have a reasonable debate about the issue, only to be drowned out by nonsense.
Thanks, although I do have the consolation of knowing that the Thugby will now have to foot the full bill for a new stand.
So that's it, this thing is done?
Allegedly. Oh well I've calmed down now. Still very disappointed. If only you guys had heard some of the submissions. Oh dear. Still democracey in action, we were given a chance, took it and lost. In some countries we'd have been shot.
http://m.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-27600715
No NIMBYs in Honduras, maybe we could relocate there?