A-League Expansion (including the Pacific)
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Just read the article on the main page on the possible inclusion of a Pacific Football team in the a-league. What do you guys think of that? Could it work? Financially would it be a disaster?
And if it were to go ahead when do you think the soonest they could be included would be?
Hard News2008-06-03 22:24:07
And if it were to go ahead when do you think the soonest they could be included would be?
Hard News2008-06-03 22:24:07
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Seems unlikely - I doubt they could make a team good enough for the A-League from players in the islands personally. Seems a fair way away at least.
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Not a chance.
Fiji would be the closest to having the infrastructure and that is apolitical clusterf**k. Lowy is making a play for Oceania votes for an Aus World Cup.
I can't see any way it's viable.
Fiji would be the closest to having the infrastructure and that is apolitical clusterf**k. Lowy is making a play for Oceania votes for an Aus World Cup.
I can't see any way it's viable.
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Seems unlikely - I doubt they could make a team good enough for the A-League from players in the islands personally. Seems a fair way away at least.
If they were to be admitted I'd bet Pacific Islanders (including Kiwi's and Aussies) wouldn't count as foreign players. That would help them out a lot. And if it happened, in my opinion at least it wouldn't happen for quite a long time, and if Fiji were to be the teams host then they could well have sorted out their political situation by then.
loyalgunner2008-06-01 23:15:44
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Here is something I posted on the Sydney forum, but you guys probably have a better idea whether it could work or not. Please look at my option 3- a Pacific Islands team based in Auckland....
3 ways it could potentially work...
1) Actually have this Pacific Islands team play their home games in Fiji, Solomon Islands, New Caledonia and whereever else, just accepting that the crowds will be about 500 people and putting up with it.
2) Having a team made up of Pacific Islander players which does not have a home ground but instead plays at the home ground of whoever they are playing. (eg, a Pacific Islands United v Sydney FC home game is played at the SFS.)
3)
a) Auckland Islanders
b) Pacific Islands FC (who play their games in Auckland)
The team has rules that it must always field a certain number of non-NZ Oceania players, but can also sign New Zealanders, Australians, and Foreigners. It is based in a NZ city, however, and plays pre-season games etc in Pacific Islands cities.
Auckland:
Pacific Islander Population- 177 936 (14.4%)
Maori Population- 137 133 (11.5%)
Combined- 315 069 (25.5%)
A 315k population base just in Auckland is better than you'd get in an Oceania city. Its favorably comparable to other proposed expansion areas like Tasmania, Geelong, Wollongong, North Queensland... People who never wanted to support the Knights will get right behind the Islanders.
This 3rd option sounds the best to me. An Auckland based team would be easily distinguishable from the Kingz and Knights because of the Pacific Islands connection, and would attract a lot of Maori support. Christchurch has also got good attendences for pre-season games.
Still, I'm a bit skeptical, but after a bit of thought, it can be done if they work hard.
Pros
-extra 10 million people for TV rights and sponsors.
-fight Union and AFL spreading their influence in these countries
-increase the player base, which might begin to thin if too many new teams are added
1) Actually have this Pacific Islands team play their home games in Fiji, Solomon Islands, New Caledonia and whereever else, just accepting that the crowds will be about 500 people and putting up with it.
2) Having a team made up of Pacific Islander players which does not have a home ground but instead plays at the home ground of whoever they are playing. (eg, a Pacific Islands United v Sydney FC home game is played at the SFS.)
3)
a) Auckland Islanders
b) Pacific Islands FC (who play their games in Auckland)
The team has rules that it must always field a certain number of non-NZ Oceania players, but can also sign New Zealanders, Australians, and Foreigners. It is based in a NZ city, however, and plays pre-season games etc in Pacific Islands cities.
Auckland:
Pacific Islander Population- 177 936 (14.4%)
Maori Population- 137 133 (11.5%)
Combined- 315 069 (25.5%)
A 315k population base just in Auckland is better than you'd get in an Oceania city. Its favorably comparable to other proposed expansion areas like Tasmania, Geelong, Wollongong, North Queensland... People who never wanted to support the Knights will get right behind the Islanders.
This 3rd option sounds the best to me. An Auckland based team would be easily distinguishable from the Kingz and Knights because of the Pacific Islands connection, and would attract a lot of Maori support. Christchurch has also got good attendences for pre-season games.
Still, I'm a bit skeptical, but after a bit of thought, it can be done if they work hard.
Pros
-extra 10 million people for TV rights and sponsors.
-fight Union and AFL spreading their influence in these countries
-increase the player base, which might begin to thin if too many new teams are added
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It's a nice idea but it wont happen in the forseeable future.
a.haak
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The crowds in the Islands would be huge. Unmanageable but huge.
Have a couple of Solomon Islanders or Fijians playing NZ or Aus sides could easily see 18k crowds in those nations. Your problem is unstable governments, questionable policing, volatile populations.
Picthes will be excellent thanks to FIFA's gol funding system, but facilities may not be up to a required standard, and accomodation and flight service would be patchy anywhere except Fiji and even some of the tourist traps don't have daily flights.
Remembering also, that the accomodation at resorts may well not be suitable location wise for a professional side.
No chance.
Hard News2008-06-01 23:30:34
Have a couple of Solomon Islanders or Fijians playing NZ or Aus sides could easily see 18k crowds in those nations. Your problem is unstable governments, questionable policing, volatile populations.
Picthes will be excellent thanks to FIFA's gol funding system, but facilities may not be up to a required standard, and accomodation and flight service would be patchy anywhere except Fiji and even some of the tourist traps don't have daily flights.
Remembering also, that the accomodation at resorts may well not be suitable location wise for a professional side.
No chance.
Hard News2008-06-01 23:30:34
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Remembering also, that the accomodation at resorts may well not be suitable location wise for a professional side.
GET YOUR SHIRTS OFF FOR THE BOYS
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I can't afford Sydney, let alone a week in Vanuatu.
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basing and island team in auckland, at least to start with, is the way to go.
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basing and island team in auckland, at least to start with, is the way to go.
Thanks for your support! 
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Didnt Nos Kossa get 20000 against Waitakere in The Solomans.
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I think Lowry is just making sure Oceania is along side Australia's WC hosting bid so he's dangling a carrot(or banana ).
Realistically it would be a logistic nightmare. The only place that could pull it off would be Noumea...its a city of over 110,000 people. Modern infrastructure and a population mad on football(no rugby or league there) But really its never going to happen, there should be a second NZ team first and even that is unlikely in the next decade.
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lowry's clutching at straws, unfortunatly i think an islands team would struggle to be competitive, so whats the point...
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even though we all seem to think it's not feasible, if it ever does happen a plus side would be helping get more Pasifika kids interest in football here in NZ
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Please look at my option 3- a Pacific Islands team based in Auckland....
3) a) Auckland Islanders
b) Pacific Islands FC (who play their games in Auckland)
The team has rules that it must always field a certain number of non-NZ Oceania players, but can also sign New Zealanders, Australians, and Foreigners. It is based in a NZ city, however, and plays pre-season games etc in Pacific Islands cities.
Auckland:
Pacific Islander Population- 177 936 (14.4%)
Maori Population- 137 133 (11.5%)
Combined- 315 069 (25.5%)
A 315k population base just in Auckland is better than you'd get in an Oceania city. Its favorably comparable to other proposed expansion areas like Tasmania, Geelong, Wollongong, North Queensland... People who never wanted to support the Knights will get right behind the Islanders.
This 3rd option sounds the best to me. An Auckland based team would be easily distinguishable from the Kingz and Knights because of the Pacific Islands connection, and would attract a lot of Maori support. Christchurch has also got good attendences for pre-season games.
b) Pacific Islands FC (who play their games in Auckland)
The team has rules that it must always field a certain number of non-NZ Oceania players, but can also sign New Zealanders, Australians, and Foreigners. It is based in a NZ city, however, and plays pre-season games etc in Pacific Islands cities.
Auckland:
Pacific Islander Population- 177 936 (14.4%)
Maori Population- 137 133 (11.5%)
Combined- 315 069 (25.5%)
A 315k population base just in Auckland is better than you'd get in an Oceania city. Its favorably comparable to other proposed expansion areas like Tasmania, Geelong, Wollongong, North Queensland... People who never wanted to support the Knights will get right behind the Islanders.
This 3rd option sounds the best to me. An Auckland based team would be easily distinguishable from the Kingz and Knights because of the Pacific Islands connection, and would attract a lot of Maori support. Christchurch has also got good attendences for pre-season games.
And who could be perfect to coach such a team? Why, our own Wynton Rufer!
According to the news today, he's very proud of his place in the Maori Sports Hall of Fame.
He's very religious.
AND... he doesn't rule out a return to coaching!
Here's the equation. Help me out here...
Wynton Rufer + a Pacific Islands team in the A-League = [fill in the blank] 
scribbler2008-06-02 10:19:37
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Based in Noumea that might go OK. Would attract French players or Africans with a French background in addition to some of the better PI players around. Add in a couple of other imports and a marquee , a ground that holds 16,000 - voila.
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I've always said it's an area towards which they would look one day. Not just yet, but a team based in Fiji (or possibly NC like some have suggested) could be successful. The interest would be there.
For the A League to be taken more seriously internationally it needs promotion/relegation. I think that the FFA are just throwing expansion ideas out there and seeing what gets stirred up.
Nix, Leyton Orient and Alloa Athletic supporting schmuck.
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They got 20,000 in Noumea last night to watch Zinidane play in Karembeau's testimonial. Coveny played as well. Might be worth YF interviewing Coveny to see what it was like playing against the great Zizou.
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Yep, no ifs, no buts
Oi Oi Edgecumbe... lets have a clean sheet
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Would be interesting, but seems like too much of a stretch at this point. Don't think there'll be enough economic/financial support for it to be viable.
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Would be interesting, but seems like too much of a stretch at this point. Don't think there'll be enough economic/financial support for it to be viable.
Sorry....as George Bush says " I must have misdisunderstood you"
Do YF pay players for an interview or is it the production costs you are talking about eg time/recording costs etc.
Shame there is'nt someone in YF who could do it for nothing.....someone unemployed or a student( journalism) with time on their hands. Record an interview with |Cov's and type it in as a Blog. Come on someone, it could be the start of a great career in journalism. I can't do it coz I can't spell.....and I don't live in Wellington.
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Would be interesting, but seems like too much of a stretch at this point. Don't think there'll be enough economic/financial support for it to be viable.
Sorry....as George Bush says " I must have misdisunderstood you"
Do YF pay players for an interview or is it the production costs you are talking about eg time/recording costs etc.
Shame there is'nt someone in YF who could do it for nothing.....someone unemployed or a student( journalism) with time on their hands. Record an interview with |Cov's and type it in as a Blog. Come on someone, it could be the start of a great career in journalism. I can't do it coz I can't spell.....and I don't live in Wellington.
I think he meant a pacific team in the A league,not an interview with covs
Allegedly
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I assume the team will be based in PNG with some games in Fiji. The table is population in these nations. (The following would assume a 16 team comp 13 Australian and three overseas, how many years down the track, only guest work at this stage)
Using the figures below PNG would be very close to all below except Fiji. Solomon Islands & Vanuatu & Indonesia already football nations, PNG follow RL but play football.
Remember to that the Indian half of Fiji play football not union and are not that bad at it.
After looking at this table I have looked at some % below.
Fiji.............................................. ... 856,346
Indonesia (Oceanian part only)�..�.......4,211,532
New Caledonia (France).......................207,858
Papua New Guinea..................... ......5,172,033
Solomon Islands..................................494,786
Vanuatu.......................................... .196, 178
Sub Total ���������.����.. .�..10, 958, 460
New Zealand.....................................4,108,037
Sub Total �������������.�. .�15, 066, 497
Now Add Singapore �����.�..�.....�.4, 000, 000
Total �������������...����..19, 066, 497
Singapore is a big football nation akin to the size of Melbourne & Sydney and would watch the A-League in viewing patterns similar to existing Sydney & Melbourne patterns of AFL& NRL.
I expect PNG would follower a similar pattern to the Mariners, ��. Big supporter of RL, but big player numbers of football, so PNG would follow A-League in big numbers if they had there own team.
If you add the 19 million above to Australia�s 22 million the big figure is 41 million people.
Hell 10% of 41 million is 4.1 million. With Singapore it would be huge and 10% would be reached with ease. At 15% viewer pattern is 6.05 million noway AFL & NRL will ever match.
Using the figures below PNG would be very close to all below except Fiji. Solomon Islands & Vanuatu & Indonesia already football nations, PNG follow RL but play football.
Remember to that the Indian half of Fiji play football not union and are not that bad at it.
After looking at this table I have looked at some % below.
Fiji.............................................. ... 856,346
Indonesia (Oceanian part only)�..�.......4,211,532
New Caledonia (France).......................207,858
Papua New Guinea..................... ......5,172,033
Solomon Islands..................................494,786
Vanuatu.......................................... .196, 178
Sub Total ���������.����.. .�..10, 958, 460
New Zealand.....................................4,108,037
Sub Total �������������.�. .�15, 066, 497
Now Add Singapore �����.�..�.....�.4, 000, 000
Total �������������...����..19, 066, 497
Singapore is a big football nation akin to the size of Melbourne & Sydney and would watch the A-League in viewing patterns similar to existing Sydney & Melbourne patterns of AFL& NRL.
I expect PNG would follower a similar pattern to the Mariners, ��. Big supporter of RL, but big player numbers of football, so PNG would follow A-League in big numbers if they had there own team.
If you add the 19 million above to Australia�s 22 million the big figure is 41 million people.
Hell 10% of 41 million is 4.1 million. With Singapore it would be huge and 10% would be reached with ease. At 15% viewer pattern is 6.05 million noway AFL & NRL will ever match.
BTW PNG has a 16 thousand stadium, I think one of the big minning companiers would back the team, if not FIFA may even back them via there goal projects.
Socceroo/ Mariner / Whangarei
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Ah Midfielder...always with the overwhelming figures 
Allegedly
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Singapore actually makes sense - the team in the ANBL has done well in it's first season and there is money there.
Peoples Republik of Aucklandia
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dont singapore already have a national league thow http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S.League png would be good if they also ahd at least a game in fiji vanuatu and solo islands aswell
pacific islanders
karambeau to coach
possible players
Reginald Davani png
nathaniel lepani png
ronil kumar fiji
roy krishna fiji
Osea Vakatalesau fiji
Pierre Wajoka new cal
chris cahill samoa
pasi schwalger samoa
Henry Fa'arodo solomon islands
Benjamin Totori solomon islands
Commins Menapi solomon islands
George Suri solomon islands
fenedy masuavaklo vanuatu
pedersen2008-06-02 18:49:12
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I was just thinking that Pederson, with the S League being in Singapore maybe they couldn't have a team join the A-league, having said that, we have the NZFC and we still got a team in so it's possible.
What I think would be good (would be a stretch and would be years before it eventuated) is NZ get two more teams (one in Christchurch and one in Dunedin for example), Pacific Indonesia and Papua New Guinea share a team, Singapore get a team, and the rest of the islands get another team. With these teams plus some more from Aussie they would be able to have enough clubs for promotion and relegation. Because let's face it, having two pro-leagues in Australia with 8 teams in each would not be ideal, you would want more than 8.
loyalgunner2008-06-02 19:21:57
What I think would be good (would be a stretch and would be years before it eventuated) is NZ get two more teams (one in Christchurch and one in Dunedin for example), Pacific Indonesia and Papua New Guinea share a team, Singapore get a team, and the rest of the islands get another team. With these teams plus some more from Aussie they would be able to have enough clubs for promotion and relegation. Because let's face it, having two pro-leagues in Australia with 8 teams in each would not be ideal, you would want more than 8.
loyalgunner2008-06-02 19:21:57
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from the stories of the league tests over there in PNG i'm not convinced an away trip would be that great for the nix players (perhaps we need a rule that says Queensland always get the PNG- based fixture)
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Then there wouldn't be much point in a PNG team if it played home games in Queensland. I doubt many Papua New Guineans would be able to travel over to watch their team.
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I think he meant a pacific team in the A league,not an interview with covs
That'd be correct
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Then there wouldn't be much point in a PNG team if it played home games in Queensland. I doubt many Papua New Guineans would be able to travel over to watch their team.
what i was trying to say - folloeing on from the previous post - was that if it turned out that there was a combined team that played one 'home' game in PNG each season, then qlnd deserve to be sent over to PNG each year, (one of these - - might have helped me convey that, or the few extra words i've hurled at the topic just now)
- might have helped me convey that, or the few extra words i've hurled at the topic just now)
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OK, I'm quite good at getting the wrong end of the stick am I not?
But what do you guys think of the suggestion of 3 Kiwi teams, a Singaporean team, a Pacific team and a Pacific Indonesia/PNG team + more Australian teams considering we need enough teams for a div 1 and a div 2 with hopefully more than 8 teams in each division?
loyalgunner2008-06-02 19:52:25
But what do you guys think of the suggestion of 3 Kiwi teams, a Singaporean team, a Pacific team and a Pacific Indonesia/PNG team + more Australian teams considering we need enough teams for a div 1 and a div 2 with hopefully more than 8 teams in each division?
loyalgunner2008-06-02 19:52:25
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People are aware that Port Moresby is regularly listed as one of the most dangerous city in the world ?
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for the Roar going there, but no chance I'd advocate the Phoenix doing so.
In 2004, Port Moresby was ranked the worst capital city in the world to live in the Economist Intelligence Unit's ranking of 130 of the world's capital cities (although Baghdad was not included). High levels of rape, robbery and murder and large areas of the city controlled by gangs of thugs, known locally as "rascals" (Tok Pisin raskol), were cited. According to a 2004 article in the Guardian newspaper, unemployment rates are estimated to be between 60 and 90% and murder rates three times that of Moscow and 23 times the rate in London.[2]
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for the Roar going there, but no chance I'd advocate the Phoenix doing so.
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Promotion is another Lowy sop to the AFC and FIFA.
Pie in the sky.
Pie in the sky.
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Somewhat sobering statistics HN. Perhaps Port Moresby could only host one game per season (against Sydney) and Jakarta be the home city for the team. Or is Jakarta not to safe either?
I suppose Jakarta hardly counts as being "Pacific Indonesia" does it. Oh well, an Indonesian-PNG team then.
I suppose Jakarta hardly counts as being "Pacific Indonesia" does it. Oh well, an Indonesian-PNG team then.
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Somewhat sobering statistics HN. Perhaps Port Moresby could only host one game per season (against Sydney) and Jakarta be the home city for the team. Or is Jakarta not to safe either?
I suppose Jakarta hardly counts as being "Pacific Indonesia" does it. Oh well, an Indonesian-PNG team then.
I suppose Jakarta hardly counts as being "Pacific Indonesia" does it. Oh well, an Indonesian-PNG team then.
I think you are getting mixed up between Papua New Guinea and the Indonesian province of Irian Jaya. PNG and Indonesia are entirely separate nations, so nobody in Jakarta is going to bother turning up to watch PNG. An Indonesian A League team - now that'd be a riot, literally!
A so-called Pacific team will never get off the ground, no matter where they are based. For one thing, who's going to bankroll such a massively expensive enterprise? A guano magnate from Nauru? The Fiji military? The PNG Raskol mafia? It's a dud, a puff of coloured smoke to wow the FIFA bigwigs.
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I meant a joint PNG and Indonesian team (including Irian Jaya) with home games in Jakarta.
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Somewhat sobering statistics HN. Perhaps Port Moresby could only host one game per season (against Sydney) and Jakarta be the home city for the team. Or is Jakarta not to safe either?
I suppose Jakarta hardly counts as being "Pacific Indonesia" does it. Oh well, an Indonesian-PNG team then.
I suppose Jakarta hardly counts as being "Pacific Indonesia" does it. Oh well, an Indonesian-PNG team then.
I think you are getting mixed up between Papua New Guinea and the Indonesian province of Irian Jaya. PNG and Indonesia are entirely separate nations, so nobody in Jakarta is going to bother turning up to watch PNG. An Indonesian A League team - now that'd be a riot, literally!
A so-called Pacific team will never get off the ground, no matter where they are based. For one thing, who's going to bankroll such a massively expensive enterprise? A guano magnate from Nauru? The Fiji military? The PNG Raskol mafia? It's a dud, a puff of coloured smoke to wow the FIFA bigwigs.
ease up turbo
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