This should be good for some lively debate.
Anyone got any better ideas?
Go to it, guys. 
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We better make Dodd captain then
a.haak
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We could just take refs out of the game completely and have no holds barred caged matches. That'd solve the problem (I wouldn't rate Daniels chances too high though). danielsleftball2008-04-01 16:04:45
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I do think referee's in the A-league are often the receivers of abuse, and you have to feel sorry for them at times. Something needs to be done, but not this captains-only stuff. If the ref stuffs up you want to give him your opinion on what happened, and if you can't do that then frustration will just build up in some players (not naming any names 
) and they'll do something stupid.
loyalgunner2008-04-01 16:05:21
) and they'll do something stupid.
loyalgunner2008-04-01 16:05:21
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I do think referee's in the A-league are often the receivers of abuse, and you have to feel sorry for them at times. Something needs to be done, but not this captains-only stuff. If the ref stuffs up you want to give him your opinion on what happened, and if you can't do that then frustration will just build up in some players (not naming any names ) and they'll do something stupid.
) and they'll do something stupid.
Sorry, but rugby proves the model works.
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The PFA dude is talking keech, this is not an Australian only proposal, it was raised at last months FIFA's IFB Meeting in Glenrothes.
Along with the proposal on goal line aassistant referee' - which was trialled at last months Womans Algarve Cup.
Essentially, TheFA's weak stance on controlling dissent in last last few years means that young (and not so young) players watching the EPL think it's OK to harangue the ref, crowding him and giving heaps of abuse.
Along with the proposal on goal line aassistant referee' - which was trialled at last months Womans Algarve Cup.
Essentially, TheFA's weak stance on controlling dissent in last last few years means that young (and not so young) players watching the EPL think it's OK to harangue the ref, crowding him and giving heaps of abuse.
When Hibs, went up, to win the Scottish Cup - I wisnae there - furfuxake!
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I do think referee's in the A-league are often the receivers of abuse, and you have to feel sorry for them at times. Something needs to be done, but not this captains-only stuff. If the ref stuffs up you want to give him your opinion on what happened, and if you can't do that then frustration will just build up in some players (not naming any names ) and they'll do something stupid.
) and they'll do something stupid.
So the 14 other players than the Captain in Rugby don't get p.o'd and frustated when the ref makes a mistake?
You had 11 players of one side beating the sh*t out of a ref in a Vietnamese 2nd Div game last month, because he gave 2 pens and 1 sending off against the team in a div playoff.
Players are getting away with too much, and a procedural approach ie Captains only, might be more successful than a punitive approach ie "red Cards for dissent'
When Hibs, went up, to win the Scottish Cup - I wisnae there - furfuxake!
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I do think referee's in the A-league are often the receivers of abuse, and you have to feel sorry for them at times. Something needs to be done, but not this captains-only stuff. If the ref stuffs up you want to give him your opinion on what happened, and if you can't do that then frustration will just build up in some players (not naming any names ) and they'll do something stupid.
) and they'll do something stupid.
Sorry, but rugby proves the model works.
I don't know how long that rule has been in rugby, but if it's been there a long time chances are it's been drummed into the players well enough.
I still can't see it being overly effective in the a-league though. All I can see is players breaking that rule and the a-league giving out even more suspensions.
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Players are getting away with too much
Yes players are getting away with far too much, but I'd like to see them develop a better way to solve the problem than this captain-only stuff.
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Players are getting away with too much
Yes players are getting away with far too much, but I'd like to see them develop a better way to solve the problem than this captain-only stuff.
As I suggested, I think improving communication on the field is key, and having you team captain, hopefully your teams most calm responsible person as a conduit between the players and the ref seems a sensible a approach.
Think of it from experience, when a player has the red mist - not matter what the ref says to him - he's probably standing there, ignoring it all thinking 'Shut it ya dick, I'm not listening to you, you useless f**k'
On the other hand if the ref goes to the Captain ' Look, can you have a word with Joe, his last tackle was out of order, if he does it again he's likely to get booked' - the Captain - a few moments later, once play has resumed, and the incident has passed tells Joe 'Look mate - wind your neck in, your skating on thin ice, watch your tackles' - it diffuses the situation, and the player is more likely to listen.
When Hibs, went up, to win the Scottish Cup - I wisnae there - furfuxake!
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I do think referee's in the A-league are often the receivers of abuse, and you have to feel sorry for them at times. Something needs to be done, but not this captains-only stuff. If the ref stuffs up you want to give him your opinion on what happened, and if you can't do that then frustration will just build up in some players (not naming any names ) and they'll do something stupid.
) and they'll do something stupid.
Sorry, but rugby proves the model works.
I don't know how long that rule has been in rugby, but if it's been there a long time chances are it's been drummed into the players well enough.
I still can't see it being overly effective in the a-league though. All I can see is players breaking that rule and the a-league giving out even more suspensions.
It's been the rule since year dot. However, the goalkeeper used to be able to pick the ball up from a back pass. How many under 15's know that.
It will be tough short term but the long term benefits are huge. Sort it out once and for all and sort it out now. I thought the way the guy reffed the Liverpool Vs Man U game was great.
I've played both rugby and football and can safely say that my attitude toward the ref on a football pitch was very different to that on a rugby pitch. If players can get away with it they will, if they are punished for it they won't. Imagine having to face Sir Alex after being sent off for arguing with the ref�..
I'm pretty sure that Brian Clough imposed the captain only rule at Forrest and had few disciplinary problems.
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Great idea. I'm yet to see a compelling argument opposing it.
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Fans abuse players, players abuse Refs, Refs go home and cry themselves to sleep.
It's like, the food chain/nature/evolution.
Or something...
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You missed the return of the cycle where the ref then goes to a Phoenix game, getting pished up in the bencher and abusing the players as one of the fans... the circle of life.
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You missed the return of the cycle where the ref then goes to a Phoenix game, getting pished up in the bencher and abusing the players as one of the fans... the circle of life.
What, I can't believe that's ever happened, shurely shome mishtake!
When Hibs, went up, to win the Scottish Cup - I wisnae there - furfuxake!
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I see one of my duties as a supporter is to let the ref know of any decision that is not to the Phoenix liking, apart from the obvious enjoyment, IMHO if this is done loud enough our players may feel less of a need to do it themselves and get a booking.
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I'm pretty sure that Brian Clough imposed the captain only rule at Forrest and had few disciplinary problems.
Clough used to fine any player for picking up a card for dissent. It was the one "foul" he considered unforgivable because it was so easy to avoid.
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looks like Both Aloisi's are benched
HK_Keeper2008-04-01 18:04:09
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The reason rugby players dont abuse refs is cos half the time the ref is the only one on the park that knows whats actually going on.
Watch a top flight rugby match without a ref miked up, and try tell me you could figure out half the decisions given.
Anyway, they rugby is a thugs game played by gentlemen, while football is a gentlemens game played by thugs. That means we're all thugs, and will continue to dissent no matter what!!!
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You missed the return of the cycle where the ref then goes to a Phoenix game, getting pished up in the bencher and abusing the players as one of the fans... the circle of life.
What, I can't believe that's ever happened, shurely shome mishtake!
Apparently I'm apathetic, but I couldn't care less.
"Being a Partick Thistle fan sets you apart. It means youre a free thinker. It also means your team has no money." Tim Luckhurst, The Independent, 4th December 2003
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The reason rugby players dont abuse refs is cos half the time the ref is the only one on the park that knows whats actually going on.
or ...
perhaps instead of the 39 th round, alex ferguson and roy keane/nevilles etc could be toured round the world and publicly whipped
and if that doesn't work, next season get Mourinho and his former muppets on the football colonies whipping tour
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this would mean alot of players getting suspended.
lets face it the a-league have alot of dirty players
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this would mean alot of players getting suspended.
lets face it the a-league have alot of dirty players
It's not so much dirty players that are the problem here, it players that have no respect for the referee and have no problem shouting and bawling at him and giving him dogs abuse.
When Hibs, went up, to win the Scottish Cup - I wisnae there - furfuxake!
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The reason rugby players dont abuse refs is cos half the time the ref is the only one on the park that knows whats actually going on.
Watch a top flight rugby match without a ref miked up, and try tell me you could figure out half the decisions given.
Anyway, they rugby is a thugs game played by gentlemen, while football is a gentlemens game played by thugs. That means we're all thugs, and will continue to dissent no matter what!!!
Lets think about this... No one knows what's going on exactly in the scrum/takle situation half the time and if a player does get pissed off he can just smash (read big tackle / punch in the scrum and maul) or just have a go at the other guys nuts when the ref's not watching!
Supporter world's best and worst football teams: Waikato/WaiBop, Kingz, Knights, Phoenix, The Argyle, The Whites & the All Whites
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This is a direct result of the standard of referee in the A league being so poor. Ben Williams for example who is not only useless he openly favours who ever the Nix are playing but still refs them week after week at home.
The whole reason for the surrounding of the ref in the Grand Final was because he missed a blatant hand ball in the box, so blatant he had to delberately try to not see it. It was poor refereeing that ruined the end of the Grand Final, not the abuse he sufferred. They only have to find 4 decent refs but while they keep appointing guys who stuff up week after week they will never bring any good ones through.
I think the rule will come and will make little difference as the ref never changes his decision and all abuse does is alienate him.
The incompetence of the refs is why they dont allow some replays at the ground.
Also if the A League is so worried about abuse of officials why did the player of the year go to a player that assaulted an assistant referee? (without punishment).
The A League hierarchy has no consistant approach to anything this will just be another.
Garry2008-04-02 08:48:15
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This is a direct result of the standard of referee in the A league being so poor......
Horse sh*t. This is a direct result of years and years of nothing being done about players gobbing off at, abusing and trying to intimidate referees. Where kids and park players can watch professional players from all over the world giving sh*t to referees, without anything being done about it, and then go out with their local team at the weekend and make some referee's life a misery. Seems to be a general feeling in football, as opposed to other sports, that it's OK to sh*t on the referee. That's was this is the result of.
I'm not saying that referees don't f**k things up, they always have and they always will, but trying to justify player behaviour by blaming the referee is absolute nonsense.
Following this line of thinking, I take it that the standard of refereeing is also poor in the EPL, SPL, La Liga, Serie A, etc, etc, etc?
Apparently I'm apathetic, but I couldn't care less.
"Being a Partick Thistle fan sets you apart. It means youre a free thinker. It also means your team has no money." Tim Luckhurst, The Independent, 4th December 2003
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If your going to quote take the whole of it, not just one part of one line.
The reason the League themselves are giving for looking at the "Captains only" rule is because the Grand Final was marred by the surrounding of the ref etc. This was entirely down to the hand ball missed. You think this rule will stop abuse? I never tried to JUSTIFY poor behaviour by players but unless the quality of the refs gets better (something the A League players association identifies as crucial) the frustration that is at the root of the large scenes will not stop.
Rugby has had it foir years , go to any age grade or school rugby match and watch the kids give it to the ref.
Garry2008-04-02 11:13:23
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Fair enough.
Jag2008-04-02 11:40:58
I used that particular line because it is obvious that FIFA are getting to the stage where they have to do something about it. I may have misconstrued your point, I read your posting as basically justifying what goes on by blaming referees, and if I got that wrong I apologise.
You are probably right, it may well be that the FFA have decided to do this as a result of the Grand Final debacle. Huge case of locking the stable door after the horse has bolted from, as you say, an organisation which was unable to take any action against a player who assaulted a match official.
As has been mentioned earlier in the thread, this proposal was discussed at a FIFA IFB meeting so it's not an Australian proposal, despite what they might like us to believe. It may well be that FIFA decided to discuss this solely as a result of the A League final debacle but I'm not convinced.
I agree, I don't believe that the "Captains Only" rule will work, for various reasons, and I don't think it will stop the abuse. The only thing which will stop abuse is for referees to be actively encouraged to card players for it and for Football Associations around the World to have the balls to back those referees up.
Unlike yourself, I don't get along to see many junior rugby games so I can't comment on how referees are treated at that level. I can say that, in the top level rugby that I've watched, the "it's because of bad refereeing so it's alright to have a go" mentality doesn't seem to exist. I don't recall the referee in the All Blacks v France game in the World Cup having loads of All Blacks crowding round him, snarling and screaming in his face because of some of the highly debatable decisions he made.
The point I was trying to make is that there is a tolerance of abusing officials in football which does not appear to be present in other sports. Just have to look at some of the comments in this thread about poor refereeing, incompetent refereeing etc. Let's just absolve the players from all responsibility and take the easy way out by blaming it all on the referees..
Apparently I'm apathetic, but I couldn't care less.
"Being a Partick Thistle fan sets you apart. It means youre a free thinker. It also means your team has no money." Tim Luckhurst, The Independent, 4th December 2003
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The reason rugby players dont abuse refs is cos half the time the ref is the only one on the park that knows whats actually going on.
or ...
perhaps instead of the 39 th round, alex ferguson and roy keane/nevilles etc could be toured round the world and publicly whipped
and if that doesn't work, next season get Mourinho and his former muppets on the football colonies whipping tour
Most players also haven't a clue to the Laws of football, although the way most gob off at refs you would think they would better refereeing than playing !!!!! All of the above show great respect toward officals!!!yeah right. No wonder getting people to REF AT ANY LEVEL is dam near impossiable.
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You missed the return of the cycle where the ref then goes to a Phoenix game, getting pished up in the bencher and abusing the players as one of the fans... the circle of life.
I wouldn't laugh at that notion.
Years ago when I was a little bit younger, we watched about 7-10 referees stand on a balcony and abuse the home teams players in the main game. Basically they decided it was payback for all the abuse they had copped over the years. Didn't hide their who they were, just stood down the far end of the balcony and started dishing a little sugar back to them.
Eventually the rest of the crowd picked up on it and started abusing their home team as well ...
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This is a direct result of the standard of referee in the A league being so poor. Ben Williams for example who is not only useless he openly favours who ever the Nix are playing but still refs them week after week at home.
The whole reason for the surrounding of the ref in the Grand Final was because he missed a blatant hand ball in the box, so blatant he had to delberately try to not see it. It was poor refereeing that ruined the end of the Grand Final, not the abuse he sufferred. They only have to find 4 decent refs but while they keep appointing guys who stuff up week after week they will never bring any good ones through.
I think the rule will come and will make little difference as the ref never changes his decision and all abuse does is alienate him.
The incompetence of the refs is why they dont allow some replays at the ground.
Also if the A League is so worried about abuse of officials why did the player of the year go to a player that assaulted an assistant referee? (without punishment).
The A League hierarchy has no consistant approach to anything this will just be another.
What would be the reaction if the referees were allowed to give it back to players? Vukovic comes running into give it to Shields and he just stands their pushes him back, tells him to f**k off and abuses him back. The irony of it is that the referee would still be the one getting blamed for poor behaviour so in essence, they are damned if they do, damned if they don't.
The old adage of it 'you don't like it then do it yourself' would probably come in to play right about here regarding refereeing but I'm picking there would be a lot of 'oh I couldn't stand the abuse' comments to follow.
Agent 472008-04-02 20:25:02
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Refs who are incompitent twats deserve abuse.
Three for me, and two for them.
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Is this thread an excuse for us to abuse the A-league refs? We did plenty of that through the season. There is one A-league ref that I would suggest needs to pick his game up considerably in the next season otherwise I will become convinced he is corrupt. I won't name names. Most demonstrate a lot of skill and ability and do a very good job in trying circumstances. I'm all for keeping it 'human' though. Don't get too elaborate in how the game is refereed, and keep the human element in the game. Otherwise, once you start to move off that road too far, it will quickly become a very different game.
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All I want from A League referees is consistancy. If they are going to be sh*t to us, they should be sh*t to our opposition teams as well. last season I saw more than a few games where we were given the rough end of the stick yet when the opposition tried the same things, the officials were conveniently blind.
If you're gonna be bad officials, be bad to everyone.
Proud to have attended the first 175 Consecutive "Home" Wellington Phoenix "A League" Games !!
The Ruf, The Ruf, The Ruf is on Fire!!
The Ruf, The Ruf, The Ruf is on Fire!!
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I would love to see the ref, 2 linesmen and the 4th official surround a full back and yell abuse about how sh*t he after he has sliced a ball into touch.
Have the old "if they are going to abuse us for every mistake we make......" approach to the whole thing.
All I do is make the stuff I would've liked
Reference things I wanna watch, reference girls I wanna bite
Now I'm firefly like a burning kite
And yousa fake fuck like a fleshlight
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All I want from A League referees is consistancy. If they are going to be sh*t to us, they should be sh*t to our opposition teams as well. last season I saw more than a few games where we were given the rough end of the stick yet when the opposition tried the same things, the officials were conveniently blind.
If you're gonna be bad officials, be bad to everyone.
Funny thing is LG, probably every team in the league has fans who think the same thing.
When Hibs, went up, to win the Scottish Cup - I wisnae there - furfuxake!
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...strangely Mr Eejit, I was just going to post that very point. Great minds think alike Jag2008-04-03 11:23:46
Jag2008-04-03 11:23:46Apparently I'm apathetic, but I couldn't care less.
"Being a Partick Thistle fan sets you apart. It means youre a free thinker. It also means your team has no money." Tim Luckhurst, The Independent, 4th December 2003
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I think you will that is just Ben Williams, and he f**king hates us.
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