As I said earlier, I think that at least some of it is because we play possession football with slow defenders so we are vulnerable to counterattacks, which means we commit more professional fouls and get more yellow cards. However, what annoys me isn't the Nix getting cards they shouldn't have, but other teams not getting cards they should have. For instance, repeated fouling of Roly, even by the same player, never seems to get a yellow card.
Yes but we did not get fouled off the field any where as much last season as we have this season so far. They foul us - free kick we foul them the same way - Yellow card. All fair in NIX OUT
Supporter For Ever - Keep The Faith - Foundation Member - Never Lets FAX Get In The Way Of A Good Yarn
Sorry trigger happy today.
You could be a ref!!
Oi Oi Edgecumbe... lets have a clean sheet
As I said earlier, I think that at least some of it is because we play possession football with slow defenders so we are vulnerable to counterattacks, which means we commit more professional fouls and get more yellow cards. However, what annoys me isn't the Nix getting cards they shouldn't have, but other teams not getting cards they should have. For instance, repeated fouling of Roly, even by the same player, never seems to get a yellow card.
People like Coldplay and voted for the Nazis. You can't trust people.
As I said earlier, I think that at least some of it is because we play possession football with slow defenders so we are vulnerable to counterattacks, which means we commit more professional fouls and get more yellow cards. However, what annoys me isn't the Nix getting cards they shouldn't have, but other teams not getting cards they should have. For instance, repeated fouling of Roly, even by the same player, never seems to get a yellow card.
I think you are right on this one - we have a slow squad this season, except say Krishna (who needs to wait for others to catch up, or go it alone). Speed helps, but is not the only factor. However, if we do not have speed, then we have to have better passing accuracy, and better ability to hold on to the ball (not be muscled off so easily).
The other day I watched the fast-paced but skillful Sydney - Adelaide game, and thought "that was entertaining", in contrast to our game against CCM.
Actually, getting outplayed quite a bit these days
Dated August 2013 :
In the new A-League match officials contract referees will receive a $5000 retainer, earn $1400 per match, receive $350 a day in travel allowances and have all of their travel and accommodation paid by FFA.
Assistant referees will receive a $2500 retainer, earn $700 per match and $350 a day in travel expenses on top of FFA paying for travel and accommodation.
This is pre-professional refs
NOTE: AusRef Editorial Note: this article appeared in the Herald Sun. We have it on good authority that most of the information in the item is false - however it has been included for completeness of reporting.
Supporter For Ever - Keep The Faith - Foundation Member - Never Lets FAX Get In The Way Of A Good Yarn
So professional basically means properly paid now right?
I wonder what they actually used to get, If it was anything close to what was suggested above then I would have thought they would be professional all along.
Did they used to get free entry and a hot dog or something as it was a hobby?
So professional basically means properly paid now right?
I wonder what they actually used to get, If it was anything close to what was suggested above then I would have thought they would be professional all along.
Did they used to get free entry and a hot dog or something as it was a hobby?
27 rounds, 5 games a round = 135 games
Lets say 10 refs of which some may do more games than others but the lets say 13 games average at $1400 = $18,200. You do half out of town 7 @ $350 = $2450 + $5k retainer
$25,600 is not even close to part time.
If thats what the A League refs get, what do the ASBP guys get cause that figure above.... you would think $300 to referee a game? Chris Kerr can you answer?
Grumpy old bastard alert
So professional basically means properly paid now right?
I wonder what they actually used to get, If it was anything close to what was suggested above then I would have thought they would be professional all along.
Did they used to get free entry and a hot dog or something as it was a hobby?
27 rounds, 5 games a round = 135 games
Lets say 10 refs of which some may do more games than others but the lets say 13 games average at $1400 = $18,200. You do half out of town 7 @ $350 = $2450 + $5k retainer
$25,600 is not even close to part time.
If thats what the A League refs get, what do the ASBP guys get cause that figure above.... you would think $300 to referee a game? Chris Kerr can you answer?
Wait how is $25,600 not even close to part time? 25 grand is excellent for part time work since minimum wage full time is about 32 grand.
What ever man. So you are telling me if you lived in Sydney, Melbourne or Brisbane, you could live on that? That would include training, gym and all the other stuff that would go along with it? Also is that before tax? The rents are higher in Australia too.
Not sure what you earn but $25k, you feel that's an excellent return for what they do? Pay peanuts, get monkeys and I think it adequately reflects what we see on TV. Personally I don't think that's even close to a decent wage where anyone would have the right to rag on refs expecting 'EPL performances on an NRFL budget'
I think having seen that, I feel for them seriously. If the referees were getting closer to 50k, then I think it would be a lot fairer to give them shark. They don't even make the minimum player wage but have a much bigger part in the game.
Grumpy old bastard alert
I hate these discussions.
Refs make mistakes - that is it. There is no agenda against any team, there is no ulterior motive. The game is electric quick these days, they get one (real time) view of what happens and players are constantly cheating. Add them all together and you get refs making mistakes.
There is no solution to the issue. You cannot replace them - they will still make mistakes. You cannot pay them more - they will still make mistakes. You cannot get "expert" refs in from other leagues - they will still make mistakes. You cannot introduce video technology - they will still make mistakes.
The only thing to do is to stop feeling persecuted and just accept that sometimes wank goes for you, and other times wank goes against you. Just like it has done since football (and all sports) begun.
All I do is make the stuff I would've liked
Reference things I wanna watch, reference girls I wanna bite
Now I'm firefly like a burning kite
And yousa fake fuck like a fleshlight
...But, surely you want to try find ways to reduce the frequency and magnitude of mistakes. I have no idea how HAL rate compared to other leagues, as I don't watch much other football.
there are the same complaints about referees in all the football I see - Premier League, Championship, Spain, Italian, etc. Not because the referees are making more mistakes, but because there is greater scrutiny of every decision.
If people are serious about improving refereeing then there has to be the implementation of harsher penalties for diving/cheating and for harassment/abuse. The first to make their job easier, and the second to make the position of referee more attractive. At the moment it is an impossible job that you are constantly getting abused and coded off for doing to the best of a persons ability. There also has to be more realistic punditry and analysis of the decisions - the amount of times someone watches 5 replays in super slow motion and then announces "I cannot believe that the referee got that wrong" is mental. It creates an unobtainable level of performance that refs are then expected to reach and stay at.
All I do is make the stuff I would've liked
Reference things I wanna watch, reference girls I wanna bite
Now I'm firefly like a burning kite
And yousa fake fuck like a fleshlight
I agree to a large degree but there is more to the issue than just 'people make mistakes'. It is a cultural issue (I'll talk about the A League) where there are too many poor decisions made and no apparent penalty/censure for poor performance. The players and the coaches are performance managed but (for a host of reasons/excuses) referees are not. The organisation needs to make changes along the lines Frankie outlined PLUS take steps to achieve a higher level of officiating. In the real world where an employee is not performing well, there are steps an employer is duty bound to take to improve that performance, if that fails, the employee is shown his cards, we need to see a bit more of that in the A League.
To be fair to the A League, the move to professional referees is clearly intended to improve refereeing because they have more time to work on it. It might take a few years for it to filter down though. You don't just become a better referee because you're professional - but being professional gives you the opportunity to become a better referee if you work on it.
I think there's a lot of merit in what FM is saying. The football I watch often is EPL, Champions League, and A League, with occasional MLS or NZFC as well, plus whatever international games ESPN/Sky are showing. I haven't seen enough NZFC to judge refs yet but the quality of refereeing in all the other football is noticeably better than the A League. In fact, I don't think you really see a bad performance from referees in those leagues very often at all. The occasional bad call, which does get scrutinised and bitched about, and maybe even a couple of bad calls in a game, but not many where you walk away shaking your head in disbelief. However in the A League that happens far too often.
A few contentious calls are part of watching sport and they add to the drama. I'm against TV replays and I really don't think the top level of the game needs it. Yes, you do get the random one like Henry's handball against Ireland in WCQ which have a massive impact, but its unrealistic to expect 100% of calls to be right, and once you let some errors in sooner or later they'll occur in crucial situations. But overall most refereeing is excellent.
However, I don't think that applies to the A League as it is. The number of errors is too high. Too often refs lose control of games. Worryingly, they also seem to not protect players from dangerous play. The way that cards are handed out is really inconsistent. A League referees can and should be better. Refereeing ruins too many games, and I'm not just saying this as a Nix fan.
There's a difference between a generally good refereeing performance marred by a couple of bad calls, and a refereeing performance which is characterised by bad calls. The second type happen way too often in in the A League. Hopefully that will improve with a few years of professionalism behind the refs.
People like Coldplay and voted for the Nazis. You can't trust people.
I agree to a large degree but there is more to the issue than just 'people make mistakes'. It is a cultural issue (I'll talk about the A League) where there are too many poor decisions made and no apparent penalty/censure for poor performance. The players and the coaches are performance managed but (for a host of reasons/excuses) referees are not.
I call yarn. Refs get debriefs from games, and when they have a shark game they are usually stood down the next week. That hits them in the pocket.
Released the other day, Ben Williams was rated number 10 for top referees in 2015
What ever man. So you are telling me if you lived in Sydney, Melbourne or Brisbane, you could live on that? That would include training, gym and all the other stuff that would go along with it? Also is that before tax? The rents are higher in Australia too.
Not sure what you earn but $25k, you feel that's an excellent return for what they do? Pay peanuts, get monkeys and I think it adequately reflects what we see on TV. Personally I don't think that's even close to a decent wage where anyone would have the right to rag on refs expecting 'EPL performances on an NRFL budget'
I think having seen that, I feel for them seriously. If the referees were getting closer to 50k, then I think it would be a lot fairer to give them shark. They don't even make the minimum player wage but have a much bigger part in the game.
Wait are you even reading the posts?
"you feel that's an excellent return for what they do? Pay peanuts, get monkeys and I think it adequately reflects what we see on TV. Personally I don't think that's even close to a decent wage where anyone would have the right to rag on refs expecting 'EPL performances on an NRFL budget'"
So you are saying that that what we are seeing on TV reflects the wages. Except in that first post it says not only are the numbers not right, that was 3 years ago, pre-professional refs.
SO you are arguing pay peanuts, get monkeys. But the A league clearly isn't, but still getting monkeys (according to you). That's a great argument against the rest of your post.
But on the topic you are suggesting that 25K isn't a livable part time wage in Sydney, Brisbane, and Melbourne working from October to May. First rent isn't that much higher, its about the 10% wage increase, at least for Sydney. Melbourne I could rent a slightly better place for the amount I currently pay. That's based on when I was looking 6 months ago and getting advice from my 35+ co workers living in those cities.
And it also depends what they do with the rest of their part time hours.
Well no offense but if someone cant live off part time wages in a non-professional position, they need to find another part time job or full time work. If I was working 1 in every 2 weeks and earning that I would be dancing.
ALSO your numbers are based on them working just under 1 in every 2 weeks in the football calendar. Lets say they work 9 months, and only work 1 week in every 2. Lets say hypothetically they worked another job that filled in the other hours, they could easily live off that.
Or a crazy idea, lets say during the season they worked a hypothetical every week.
So lets say they work every week, and only do a quarter out of town (it could be higher and therefore the wages higher) then based on your calculations they would earn $45,250 for working 3/4 of the years. If they do other stuff to fill in the week, maybe extra work for the A League, that could be much higher. And that's for part time UNPROFESSIONAL work.
Hypothetically In a professional position they could be earning well in excess of that so above your acceptable threshold.
There's only two types of football referees: those who have been sacked and those who will be sacked in the future.
Founder
I agree to a large degree but there is more to the issue than just 'people make mistakes'. It is a cultural issue (I'll talk about the A League) where there are too many poor decisions made and no apparent penalty/censure for poor performance. The players and the coaches are performance managed but (for a host of reasons/excuses) referees are not.
I call yarn. Refs get debriefs from games, and when they have a shark game they are usually stood down the next week. That hits them in the pocket.
Can you describe a week in the life of an A-League referee?
A week in the life of an A-League referee requires a lot of sacrifice and dedication. For the majority of the panel, the week consists of working Monday to Friday, physical training 3-4 times per week, a teleconference on a Monday night to review incidents, participating in a wellbeing program, reviewing heart rate data, self-assessment and then officiating in an A-League match on the weekend. The week doesn’t allow for much time to be spent with family and friends.
Can you describe a week in the life of a Hyundai A-League referee?
In two words – busy busy. We receive our appointments on a Monday afternoon for that weekend’s round of matches. A typical week includes a teleconference to debrief and analyse the previous weekend’s matches; physical training three times a week in the evenings; two individual gym sessions; and preparing mentally and tactically for the game ahead. We fly into the city of our match on game day usually (except for Wellington and Perth), giving us enough time for lunch, a short kip to charge the batteries, and then arrive at the ground 90 minutes before kick-off. The life of a full-time Hyundai A-League referee will look slightly different, in that I will be able to focus entirely on my preparation and training during the week without juggling another full-time career, much like a full-time professional player would do.
http://www.footballaustralia.com.au/article/hyundai-a-league-referee-in-focus-jarred-gillett/ibno959xarc21kye8181oyewk#rKUuXGsFLvg2jFq0.99
To be fair to the A League, the move to professional referees is clearly intended to improve refereeing because they have more time to work on it. It might take a few years for it to filter down though. You don't just become a better referee because you're professional - but being professional gives you the opportunity to become a better referee if you work on it.
I think there's a lot of merit in what FM is saying. The football I watch often is EPL, Champions League, and A League, with occasional MLS or NZFC as well, plus whatever international games ESPN/Sky are showing. I haven't seen enough NZFC to judge refs yet but the quality of refereeing in all the other football is noticeably better than the A League. In fact, I don't think you really see a bad performance from referees in those leagues very often at all. The occasional bad call, which does get scrutinised and bitched about, and maybe even a couple of bad calls in a game, but not many where you walk away shaking your head in disbelief. However in the A League that happens far too often.
A few contentious calls are part of watching sport and they add to the drama. I'm against TV replays and I really don't think the top level of the game needs it. Yes, you do get the random one like Henry's handball against Ireland in WCQ which have a massive impact, but its unrealistic to expect 100% of calls to be right, and once you let some errors in sooner or later they'll occur in crucial situations. But overall most refereeing is excellent.
However, I don't think that applies to the A League as it is. The number of errors is too high. Too often refs lose control of games. Worryingly, they also seem to not protect players from dangerous play. The way that cards are handed out is really inconsistent. A League referees can and should be better. Refereeing ruins too many games, and I'm not just saying this as a Nix fan.
There's a difference between a generally good refereeing performance marred by a couple of bad calls, and a refereeing performance which is characterised by bad calls. The second type happen way too often in in the A League. Hopefully that will improve with a few years of professionalism behind the refs.
Grumpy old bastard alert
What ever man. So you are telling me if you lived in Sydney, Melbourne or Brisbane, you could live on that? That would include training, gym and all the other stuff that would go along with it? Also is that before tax? The rents are higher in Australia too.
Not sure what you earn but $25k, you feel that's an excellent return for what they do? Pay peanuts, get monkeys and I think it adequately reflects what we see on TV. Personally I don't think that's even close to a decent wage where anyone would have the right to rag on refs expecting 'EPL performances on an NRFL budget'
I think having seen that, I feel for them seriously. If the referees were getting closer to 50k, then I think it would be a lot fairer to give them shark. They don't even make the minimum player wage but have a much bigger part in the game.
Wait are you even reading the posts?
"you feel that's an excellent return for what they do? Pay peanuts, get monkeys and I think it adequately reflects what we see on TV. Personally I don't think that's even close to a decent wage where anyone would have the right to rag on refs expecting 'EPL performances on an NRFL budget'"
So you are saying that that what we are seeing on TV reflects the wages. Except in that first post it says not only are the numbers not right, that was 3 years ago, pre-professional refs.
SO you are arguing pay peanuts, get monkeys. But the A league clearly isn't, but still getting monkeys (according to you). That's a great argument against the rest of your post.
But on the topic you are suggesting that 25K isn't a livable part time wage in Sydney, Brisbane, and Melbourne working from October to May. First rent isn't that much higher, its about the 10% wage increase, at least for Sydney. Melbourne I could rent a slightly better place for the amount I currently pay. That's based on when I was looking 6 months ago and getting advice from my 35+ co workers living in those cities.
And it also depends what they do with the rest of their part time hours.
Well no offense but if someone cant live off part time wages in a non-professional position, they need to find another part time job or full time work. If I was working 1 in every 2 weeks and earning that I would be dancing.
ALSO your numbers are based on them working just under 1 in every 2 weeks in the football calendar. Lets say they work 9 months, and only work 1 week in every 2. Lets say hypothetically they worked another job that filled in the other hours, they could easily live off that.
Or a crazy idea, lets say during the season they worked a hypothetical every week.
So lets say they work every week, and only do a quarter out of town (it could be higher and therefore the wages higher) then based on your calculations they would earn $45,250 for working 3/4 of the years. If they do other stuff to fill in the week, maybe extra work for the A League, that could be much higher. And that's for part time UNPROFESSIONAL work.
Hypothetically In a professional position they could be earning well in excess of that so above your acceptable threshold.
I also used an average above and the likes of Williams get used every other week so they would get more cash. But what if you are a new guy that does maybe 1 or 2 games? And you are still expected to perform top level? If I put a player in a team in round 1 and then next at round 10, I doubt he would play at the same level because of match fitness. Where do these guys get their match fitness from in the offseason? Not in NPL.... O'Leary would have been lucky cause he could have refereed in the ASBP on weekends he was not doing the A League but the others would not and I don;t think O'Leary was used too often.
Either way, I still hold true that for what they get for shark from the fans and expectation of performances vs the level of remuneration, it does not stack up.
Grumpy old bastard alert
I agree to a large degree but there is more to the issue than just 'people make mistakes'. It is a cultural issue (I'll talk about the A League) where there are too many poor decisions made and no apparent penalty/censure for poor performance. The players and the coaches are performance managed but (for a host of reasons/excuses) referees are not.
I call yarn. Refs get debriefs from games, and when they have a shark game they are usually stood down the next week. That hits them in the pocket.
Do something radical like have three ref's on the football pitch like AFL does with 3 field umpires.
Do something radical like have three ref's on the football pitch like AFL does with 3 field umpires.
Or none, just let the players ref themselves!
Oi Oi Edgecumbe... lets have a clean sheet
neither Williams or KGJ are in charge of a game this weekend.
Grumpy old bastard alert
neither Williams or KGJ are in charge of a game this weekend.
So the two refs who had stinkers last weekend, aren't refereeing this weekend, and you don't think that is evidence?
neither Williams or KGJ are in charge of a game this weekend.
Was he bad last weekend?
neither Williams or KGJ are in charge of a game this weekend.
Supporter For Ever - Keep The Faith - Foundation Member - Never Lets FAX Get In The Way Of A Good Yarn
So interesting, The International Football Association Board (IFAB) will recommend to their AGM in early March that a video review system be put in place in the next two or three years to assist referees with questionable goals, penalties, red cards and cases of mistaken identity.
So the two refs who had stinkers last weekend, aren't refereeing this weekend, and you don't think that is evidence?
So the two refs who had stinkers last weekend, aren't refereeing this weekend, and you don't think that is evidence?
But you can appeal that now ;)
So interesting, The International Football Association Board (IFAB) will recommend to their AGM in early March that a video review system be put in place in the next two or three years to assist referees with questionable goals, penalties, red cards and cases of mistaken identity.
http://m.foxsports.com.au/football/football-video-...
Oh well, football had a nice run.
So the two refs who had stinkers last weekend, aren't refereeing this weekend, and you don't think that is evidence?
So the two refs who had stinkers last weekend, aren't refereeing this weekend, and you don't think that is evidence?
