Wellington Phoenix Men

A-League Stats

35 replies · 476 views
about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
A-League Stats

"Ive just re-visited this and once again realised that C-Diddy is a genius - a drunk, Newcastle bred disgrace - but a genius." - Hard News, 11:39am 4th June 2009

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Why is it that you can get every form of Statistic about players on the A-League website but you can't find anything about the Referees?

This makes it very hard for us as spectators to obey Rule #1 of the "Hyundai A-League Spectator Code of Behaviour" which states:-

1. Respect the decisions of Match Officials

"Ive just re-visited this and once again realised that C-Diddy is a genius - a drunk, Newcastle bred disgrace - but a genius." - Hard News, 11:39am 4th June 2009

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Because they don't collect stats on referees?
 
What kinda stats were you looking for? How many times he blew the whistle?
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Hyundai A-League Spectator Code of Behaviour
It is important that all spectators at a Hyundai A-League match are able to enjoy that match in a safe and comfortable environment. Accordingly, each person present at a Hyundai A-League match must:

1. Respect the decisions of Match Officials;

2. Respect the rights, dignity and worth of every person regardless of their race, colour, religion, language, politics, national or ethnic origin;

3. Condemn the use of violence in any form, whether it is by other spectators, Team Officials (including coaches) or Players;

4. Not engage in discrimination, harassment or abuse in any form, including the use of obscene or offensive language or gestures, the incitement of hatred or violence or partaking in indecent or racist chanting;

5. Comply with any terms of entry of a venue, including bag inspections, prohibited and restricted items such as flares, missiles, dangerous articles and items that have the potential to cause injury or public nuisance;

6. Comply with the ban on bringing national and political flags, banners or emblems into a venue (except for recognised Australian or New Zealand national or state flags);

7. Not throw missiles (including on to the field of play or at other spectators) and must not enter the field of play or its surrounds without lawful authority; and

8. Conduct themselves in a manner that enhances, rather than injures, the reputation and goodwill of FFA, the Hyundai A-League and football generally.

Any person who does not comply with this Code or who otherwise causes a disturbance may be evicted from the venue and banned from attending future matches.

"Ive just re-visited this and once again realised that C-Diddy is a genius - a drunk, Newcastle bred disgrace - but a genius." - Hard News, 11:39am 4th June 2009

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I just like stats thats all

"Ive just re-visited this and once again realised that C-Diddy is a genius - a drunk, Newcastle bred disgrace - but a genius." - Hard News, 11:39am 4th June 2009

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Coops.. I think you should put the milo tin away for the rest of the day.
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Does nobody else think it's strange that Melbourne have never lost a match that Strebre Delovski has officiated? I know the point was made during the commentary of the match and it has had me thinking ever since i read that on our forums on Saturday morning


"Ive just re-visited this and once again realised that C-Diddy is a genius - a drunk, Newcastle bred disgrace - but a genius." - Hard News, 11:39am 4th June 2009

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

So because the first rite is respect the decisions of the match officials, you want stats.

Do you want stats on your mum because its an unwritten rule that you should respect your parents and the decisions they make?

I think you are reaching here just a bit.
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Agent 47 wrote:

So because the first rite is respect the decisions of the match officials, you want stats.



No I want stats so that it makes it easier to respect the decisions of the referees!

"Ive just re-visited this and once again realised that C-Diddy is a genius - a drunk, Newcastle bred disgrace - but a genius." - Hard News, 11:39am 4th June 2009

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago

Adelaide United has never lost under Peter O'Leary, Craig Zetter, Streb Delovski or Chris Beath...

Again, it stil proves nothing. Providing stats as to whom won under which referee wont make any difference as to whether or not you respect them.
Agent 472009-01-28 16:52:05
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Agent 47 wrote:

Adelaide United has never lost under Peter O'Leary...

Again, it stil proves nothing. Providing stats as to whom won under which referee wont make any difference as to whether or not you respect them.


I don't agree!

All i'm asking is that Referee stats are made available so that those amongst us who may question the virtue of certain Match Officials involved in the A-League can dispell any negative thoughts they may have about said Match Officials. I personally believe that its better to have all the information available to you before you cast aspersions!

"Ive just re-visited this and once again realised that C-Diddy is a genius - a drunk, Newcastle bred disgrace - but a genius." - Hard News, 11:39am 4th June 2009

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
C-Diddy wrote:
Agent 47 wrote:

Adelaide United has never lost under Peter O'Leary...

Again, it stil proves nothing. Providing stats as to whom won under which referee wont make any difference as to whether or not you respect them.


I don't agree!

All i'm asking is that Referee stats are made available so that those amongst us who may question the virtue of certain Match Officials involved in the A-League can dispell any negative thoughts they may have about said Match Officials. I personally believe that its better to have all the information available to you before you cast aspersions!

Well you better run right out and nail O'Leary, Beath, Zetter and Delovski for jacking Adelaide up
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Agent 47 wrote:
C-Diddy wrote:
Agent 47 wrote:

Adelaide United has never lost under Peter O'Leary...

Again, it stil proves nothing. Providing stats as to whom won under which referee wont make any difference as to whether or not you respect them.


I don't agree!

All i'm asking is that Referee stats are made available so that those amongst us who may question the virtue of certain Match Officials involved in the A-League can dispell any negative thoughts they may have about said Match Officials. I personally believe that its better to have all the information available to you before you cast aspersions!

Well you better run right out and nail O'Leary, Beath, Zetter and Delovski for jacking Adelaide up


How do you expect me to do that when I don't know how many Matches has each of these Referees been in charge of that Adelaide have been part of? Where were they played? What was the Foul/Cards count? How many Penalties and who for?

"Ive just re-visited this and once again realised that C-Diddy is a genius - a drunk, Newcastle bred disgrace - but a genius." - Hard News, 11:39am 4th June 2009

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
And what would penalties yc/rc prove? That they committed a rash challenge or it was in the box? Yup, I smell conspiracy...
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Do you not think the overall performances of A-League Officials would improve should this information be readily available???

"Ive just re-visited this and once again realised that C-Diddy is a genius - a drunk, Newcastle bred disgrace - but a genius." - Hard News, 11:39am 4th June 2009

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I'd go on a witch hunt for Mark Shield too. The Phoenix never lost under him. That definitely has to be a major stitch up.... Agent 472009-01-28 17:09:42
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Cause its the referees that commit all the bad challenges and trip attackers in the box.
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
You're just getting a little silly now...

"Ive just re-visited this and once again realised that C-Diddy is a genius - a drunk, Newcastle bred disgrace - but a genius." - Hard News, 11:39am 4th June 2009

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Agent 47 wrote:
Cause its the referees that commit all the bad challenges and trip attackers in the box.


The problem with the current crop of Referees is that they know the rules but don�t understand the game! They referee based on what they think they saw and not what actually happened!
C-Diddy2009-01-28 17:23:47

"Ive just re-visited this and once again realised that C-Diddy is a genius - a drunk, Newcastle bred disgrace - but a genius." - Hard News, 11:39am 4th June 2009

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
You started it with the thread.
 
I fail to see how there is anyway at all any merit in saying so and so is a better/worse referee because of who wins, how many cards he gives and how many penalties he gives.
 
What happens if you have a referee that happens to have games every week where the two teams aren't interested in playing and more interested in kicking 7 different shades of sh*t out of each other? He has to act, so what does that do to your stats? What happens if referee a gives out 12 red cards in a year and referee b gives out 2 in a year. Does that mean referee b is better than referee a? What if the stats say that referee a's cards were all perfectly correct and referee b got his horribly wrong. What does that mean now??
 
The golden boot is another. Someone mentioned it last night in another post. Smeltz topped it with 12 goals making him the best striker in the league right? Break those down you will find that 5 of those were gimme penalties. The raw stats alone mean nothing.
 
The only way you are going to get anything meaningful is by watching every single game and reviewing every decision and every card and ask 'was that decision warranted' The stats alone don't mean dick pussy snot.
 
The problem with football and pretty much any sport is that every game is different. Hard to measure stats really unless you have a static environment with which to measure.
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
I value youre opinion and I started the thread to get some different views on the subject. 

I am someone who likes to know that when his side takes the pitch that they are going to get a fair and unbiased chance at getting something out of the match and I can honestly say that I have my doubts over the "quality" of the decision making ability of quite a few referees in the A-League when put into certain environments. Now, it is also my belief that records of such decisions should be kept so that if there is a reoccuring issue with any of the referees it can be scrutinised more easily and action can be taken to improve their work. It's been happening in the UK for many years and the referees have definately improved in my opinion.

It's only fair that spectators like myself and you get the best possible value for money when attending matches and leave knowing that the Match Officials did not have too much bearing on the result...

"Ive just re-visited this and once again realised that C-Diddy is a genius - a drunk, Newcastle bred disgrace - but a genius." - Hard News, 11:39am 4th June 2009

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Ah.
That explains it.
I agree with you coops
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
C-Diddy wrote:
I value youre opinion and I started the thread to get some different views on the subject. 

I am someone who likes to know that when his side takes the pitch that they are going to get a fair and unbiased chance at getting something out of the match and I can honestly say that I have my doubts over the "quality" of the decision making ability of quite a few referees in the A-League when put into certain environments. Now, it is also my belief that records of such decisions should be kept so that if there is a reoccuring issue with any of the referees it can be scrutinised more easily and action can be taken to improve their work. It's been happening in the UK for many years and the referees have definately improved in my opinion.

It's only fair that spectators like myself and you get the best possible value for money when attending matches and leave knowing that the Match Officials did not have too much bearing on the result...
+1
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Agent 47 wrote:
 
The only way you are going to get anything meaningful is by watching every single game and reviewing every decision and every card and ask 'was that decision warranted'


Exactly.  And we have access to that through taped games etc so if we were to be given the stats we could make more informed decisions as the two (stats and games) would compliment each other.

Basically, I agree with C-Diddy.  We should get statistics on the refs.
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
C-Diddy wrote:
I value youre opinion and I started the thread to get some different views on the subject.�I am someone who likes to know that when his side takes the pitch that they are going to get a fair and unbiased chance at getting something out of the match and I can honestly say that I have my doubts over the "quality" of the decision making ability of quite a few referees in the A-League when put into certain environments. Now, it is also my belief that records of such decisions should be kept so that if there is a reoccuring issue with any of the referees it can be scrutinised more easily and action can be taken to improve their work. It's been happening in the UK for many years and the referees have definately improved in my opinion.It's only fair that spectators like myself and you get the best possible value for money when attending matches and leave knowing that the Match Officials did not have too much bearing on the result...


What decsions exactly will be scrutinised? Every decison that the referee makes in every game? Who will be doing the scrutinising? What re-occurring issues? Sorry C-D, I know where you're coming from on this, but I really don't see what use these stats are going to be. They might suggest that Ref A is more likely to book somebody than Ref B, but that assumpion may well be based on a referee who doled out 14 cards in one game and then none for the next 8 games. All the stats in the world aren't going to protect anybody from a referee making a bad decision, or from creating a persecution complex.Jag2009-01-28 18:19:09

Apparently I'm apathetic, but I couldn't care less.

"Being a Partick Thistle fan sets you apart. It means youre a free thinker. It also means your team has no money." Tim Luckhurst, The Independent, 4th December 2003

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
loyalgunner wrote:

Basically, I agree with C-Diddy.� We should get statistics on the refs.


Well, there's nothing stopping you two from collecting them and putting them up on the forum...I await results with interest...
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
...then, when the ref gives a penalty against us in the Grand Final next season, you can say "Well he's never done that before"..

Apparently I'm apathetic, but I couldn't care less.

"Being a Partick Thistle fan sets you apart. It means youre a free thinker. It also means your team has no money." Tim Luckhurst, The Independent, 4th December 2003

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
...in the 71st minute of a game played at RoF at the southern end of the ground. Watching history here, really...el grapadura2009-01-28 18:25:19
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Jag wrote:
...then, when the ref gives a penalty against us in the Grand Final next season, you can say "Well he's never done that before"..


By then Lisa Ho will be in charge and we will get a non-biased Grand Final and I can live with that!

"Ive just re-visited this and once again realised that C-Diddy is a genius - a drunk, Newcastle bred disgrace - but a genius." - Hard News, 11:39am 4th June 2009

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
No she won't, C-D. She's a specialist AR. When you get to that level you're either a Referee or an AR. She won't referee A League gamesJag2009-01-28 19:31:32

Apparently I'm apathetic, but I couldn't care less.

"Being a Partick Thistle fan sets you apart. It means youre a free thinker. It also means your team has no money." Tim Luckhurst, The Independent, 4th December 2003

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
LOL you just called C-Diddy LG.

EDIT: I see you fixed it, well done James Dean
Buffon II2009-01-28 19:33:25

Three for me, and two for them.

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Jag wrote:
No she won't, C-D. She's a specialist AR. When you get to that level you're either a Referee or an AR. She won't referee A League games


Cheers for ruining my dreams Jag!


"Ive just re-visited this and once again realised that C-Diddy is a genius - a drunk, Newcastle bred disgrace - but a genius." - Hard News, 11:39am 4th June 2009

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
C-Diddy wrote:
Jag wrote:
...then, when the ref gives a penalty against us in the Grand Final next season, you can say "Well he's never done that before"..


By then Lisa Ho will be in charge and we will get a non-biased Grand Final and I can live with that!

Sarah Ho

I'll give you a different point of view C-Diddy

A: Troy Hearfields red card against Sydney
B: The penalty that Muscat gave away against Melbourne

This message board was not even unanimous in that both decisions were correct or incorrect and that was after multiple replays. The referee gets 1 view, at full pace, and usually at a different angle to the camera and usually closer too.

Taking the fact that this message board was not unanimously in favour or otherwise of those decisions, if you are the person whom decides what is correct and what is not, whats to say that Joe Blow to your left may disagree with you? You'd also need to be of a standard to know the laws of the game and how they are applied at that level to even be considered the judge of those decisions and also be understanding of the National Policy in terms of what they are wanting referees to clamp down on/execute. They are assessed every game and given marks and coaching points. For the last 3 years, Shield has consistently been the top and was also ranked in the top 10 in the world. The next 2 have been Breeze and Oleary in mixed order. The A-League issues weekly video clips to all the officials to review and also 3 of the referees (OLeary, Breeze and Hester) are in the last 38 for South Africa 2010.


Another point is that they haven't been keeping stats on how many they have and haven't been getting right in the EPL. They use a programme that I think that comes from Palmerston North called Prozone to track a referees movement over 90mins. They check where he is in relation to certain decisions, time of the game, the movement around that time, and the heart rate of the referee. They use this to help analyse a referees fitness level to then try and improve fitness to improve concentration to improve decision making.

If the referees in the EPL have been improving, then how the hell does Poll give 3 yellows in a WC game.....?

While I respect that some referees have looked a bit green, consider they started the season with  Shield, Breeze, OLeary, Williams, Green, Pryzdacs, Zetter, Delovski. Sheild and Pryzdacs retired so they have needed to elevate some people to make sure they have enough, hance why Beath has popped up.


(Before you ask, I happen to know a few people whom are tied up in this.....)
Agent 472009-01-28 21:01:46
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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Just clone Delovski a few times imo

Refs are always going to make mistakes. The highest paid refs in the world make mistakes. A-League refs aren't even fully professional so it's understandable.
valeo2009-01-28 21:21:56

a.haak

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about 17 years ago · edited over 13 years ago
Buffon II wrote:

LOL you just called C-Diddy LG.EDIT: I see you fixed it, well done James Dean


Good spot, Buffy! Thought I'd got away with it. Reading two things at once doesn't agree with me

Apparently I'm apathetic, but I couldn't care less.

"Being a Partick Thistle fan sets you apart. It means youre a free thinker. It also means your team has no money." Tim Luckhurst, The Independent, 4th December 2003

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