Frustration overload....
Even though we are a new club and we are playing some sublime football at times, we've had about 4 games now that we have lost points through what I would call lack of concentration for the full 90mins.
The question must now be asked:
When is Ricki going to try to amend this situation?
Once happens to everyone
2nd time you should have learned
3rd is a trend
4th time is just embarrassing
Come on Ricki... If you have been trying to fix it, surely we would have seen a difference by now? If we miss the play offs, it wont be through not being good enough because we are. It'll be through dropping points for not concentrating for the full 90min.
Watching the Phoenix is like have sex with your cheating wife. Its fun for the most part but you know she is going to f**k up eventuallyAgent 472007-11-30 22:25:01
Even though we are a new club and we are playing some sublime football at times, we've had about 4 games now that we have lost points through what I would call lack of concentration for the full 90mins.
The question must now be asked:
When is Ricki going to try to amend this situation?
Once happens to everyone
2nd time you should have learned
3rd is a trend
4th time is just embarrassing
Come on Ricki... If you have been trying to fix it, surely we would have seen a difference by now? If we miss the play offs, it wont be through not being good enough because we are. It'll be through dropping points for not concentrating for the full 90min.
Watching the Phoenix is like have sex with your cheating wife. Its fun for the most part but you know she is going to f**k up eventuallyAgent 472007-11-30 22:25:01
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Ricky Herbet is the best thing that has happened to NZ Football, he
is the best coach un NZ.
I'm sure he is doing his best to improve the concentration of the players but there's only so much a coach can do, the players really have to take it to the next level.
I'm sure he is doing his best to improve the concentration of the players but there's only so much a coach can do, the players really have to take it to the next level.
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From where I sit our problem is fundamentally an inability with
creating & finishing QUALITY chances in the top third.
Tunnelrat2007-11-30 22:08:48
Lack of finishing or having quality opportunities in turn puts
undue pressure of the defence and any defensive midfielders.
It was something we used to see with their predessors who had
this same problem and we have NEVER been able to counter-attack
with speed & penetration at speed the way the Australian sides
can
WHY?
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Both of those posts are very valid sirs.
If the monkey stops dancing to the organ grinder, do you change the monkey or the tune? I'm not suggesting there is a better caoch than Ricki or he should go. I similarly not suggesting players should be dropped/let go. I'm just saying that there is an obvious problem, and its either trying to be addressed with little effect, or not addressed at all.
Agree with the counter attacking argument. In regards to finishing, we do have good strikers and good ball players to deliver. Is it a case of we are good, but the defenders are better/more organised?
I don't have the answers, just trying to stir up some insightful conversation on a topic of relevance. Most of these posts that go up, there usually comes some positive answers/solutions but we are not the coaching staff...
Agent 472007-11-30 22:34:56
If the monkey stops dancing to the organ grinder, do you change the monkey or the tune? I'm not suggesting there is a better caoch than Ricki or he should go. I similarly not suggesting players should be dropped/let go. I'm just saying that there is an obvious problem, and its either trying to be addressed with little effect, or not addressed at all.
Agree with the counter attacking argument. In regards to finishing, we do have good strikers and good ball players to deliver. Is it a case of we are good, but the defenders are better/more organised?
I don't have the answers, just trying to stir up some insightful conversation on a topic of relevance. Most of these posts that go up, there usually comes some positive answers/solutions but we are not the coaching staff...
Agent 472007-11-30 22:34:56
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Both of those posts are very valid sirs.
If the monkey stops dancing to the organ grinder, do you change the monkey or the tune? I'm not suggesting there is a better caoch than Ricki or he should go. I similarly not suggesting players should be dropped/let go. I'm just saying that there is an obvious problem, and its either trying to be addressed with little effect, or not addressed at all.
Agree with the counter attacking argument. In regards to finishing, we do have good strikers and good ball players to deliver. Is it a case of we are good, but the defenders are better/more organised?
I don't have the answers, just trying to stir up some insightful conversation on a topic of relevance. Most of these posts that go up, there usually comes some positive answers/solutions but we are not the coaching staff...
If the monkey stops dancing to the organ grinder, do you change the monkey or the tune? I'm not suggesting there is a better caoch than Ricki or he should go. I similarly not suggesting players should be dropped/let go. I'm just saying that there is an obvious problem, and its either trying to be addressed with little effect, or not addressed at all.
Agree with the counter attacking argument. In regards to finishing, we do have good strikers and good ball players to deliver. Is it a case of we are good, but the defenders are better/more organised?
I don't have the answers, just trying to stir up some insightful conversation on a topic of relevance. Most of these posts that go up, there usually comes some positive answers/solutions but we are not the coaching staff...
i'd suggest there is a good reason why we are not the coaching staff
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I am not being able to watch complete games. Just the highlights.
But it seems there's a serious defensive issue with Phoenix.
Adelaide 2nd goal illustrates it. They went all the way from their
defensive field until WP's goal and nobody stopped them. And it was
11 x 10...
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Agree. Major problems in defense and for Gods sake play with TWO
strikers, from the start.
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From where I sit our problem is fundamentally an inability with
creating & finishing QUALITY chances in the top third.
Lack of finishing or having quality opportunities in turn puts
undue pressure of the defence and any defensive midfielders.
It was something we used to see with their predessors who had
this same problem and we have NEVER been able to counter-attack
with speed & penetration at speed the way the Australian sides
can
WHY?
Agree wholeheartedly. The two things that have been
screaming out at me in recent weeks is 1. lack of pace up front and
2. inability to finish. I can't remember a time all season
when one of our players has been through one on one with the
keeper. As a result, we're not giving our defence any margin
for error. Call it lack of concentration at the back or
whatever, but yet again we failed to put away ten men who were
hanging on for dear life and paid the price.
Also, we can't keep blaming referees. Yes, he made some
poor decisions last night but we see that every week in every game
in this league. It's the same for everyone.
I'm really struggling to see what Felipe is contributing at
the moment. He's all over the place but not hurting
opposition defences in any way, playing way to deep most of the
time. I think it's time to put Covs back in from the
start.
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Covs missed the header that was a bit of sitter though
Founder
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As far as the defensive lapses go, my question would be how is
Ricki supposed to teach concentration?
You can teach players all the tricks in the trade and give them all of the technical and tactical knowledge in the world but it's very difficult to teach them to concentrate. Some players will switch off no matter how well they are coached. Moving into sports psychology country here!
You can teach players all the tricks in the trade and give them all of the technical and tactical knowledge in the world but it's very difficult to teach them to concentrate. Some players will switch off no matter how well they are coached. Moving into sports psychology country here!
Apparently I'm apathetic, but I couldn't care less.
"Being a Partick Thistle fan sets you apart. It means youre a free thinker. It also means your team has no money." Tim Luckhurst, The Independent, 4th December 2003
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Hot topic Agent 47 and some interesting replies too.
Of course we want wins and successive opportunities have gone
begging (grrrr!) but....
Perhaps we need a clear overview of how the Phoenix began
this year before we can criticize the coach and his abilities
for this first season?
Remember most, if not all the other A League teams were
already organised, had recruited players where required and, most
importantly, had a basis of players and staff with all
the previous seasons experience under their belt.
Given the tight timeframe at the start, and a team and
staff with little or no A League experience and a
requirement for Riki to "fill the spaces" without the luxury
of seeing every player's form and abilities through a
season or two, we have had a remarkable run this year.
He has had to work with the players he chose and some haven't
made the grade.On the field all our players haven't stepped up when
it was absolutely critical.
Next year, better key selections hopefully where we need
them and with a years experience under their belts, plus a solid
fanatical fan base (..where we come in!!) who knows what's
possible??
Improving,,on the up, a work in progress from Italiano and the Nix. Bring on the bathroom bling in '24! COYN!
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All the replies have valid points, but I will repeat what I have
said months ago.
The defence is the weakness. Everyone thinks that Dodds is great.I have watched him for years. He is not good enough and that is why Queensland Roar did not want him.The rest of the back four are no better. If you don't concede you can't lose.
The defence is the weakness. Everyone thinks that Dodds is great.I have watched him for years. He is not good enough and that is why Queensland Roar did not want him.The rest of the back four are no better. If you don't concede you can't lose.
If you are old and wise you were probably young and stupid
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All the replies have valid points, but I will repeat what I have
said months ago.
The defence is the weakness. Everyone thinks that Dodds is great.I have watched him for years. He is not good enough and that is why Queensland Roar did not want him.The rest of the back four are no better. If you don't concede you can't lose.
The defence is the weakness. Everyone thinks that Dodds is great.I have watched him for years. He is not good enough and that is why Queensland Roar did not want him.The rest of the back four are no better. If you don't concede you can't lose.
Sorry....small thing....it's Dodd OK? Dodd. Not
Dodds. No 's'.
It's like when people call John Key "John Keys" and Mike
Hosking "Mike Hoskings". Irritates the sh*t out of me for
some reason.
That is all.
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I agree the defense is the key here but I stated awhile ago I
thought we p*ssed about around the box to much and did not
take enough shots at goal, it did not matter then as we were still
outscoring teams. Now the opposition defends deep and waits
for us to start passing the ball around they then intercept and
clear the ball. They also have time to organise themselves as we
are slow getting the ball to their end. In the past defensive
mistakes could be covered up by us scoring more, but now the goals
have dried up we are in trouble.
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5 words.... Wynton Rufer for assistant coach
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You can't coach concentration!
It comes with experiance. Not only as an individual but especially as a team. Some of the most glaring defensive lapses have come from the youngsters O'dor and Old.
Can you blame them as 20 year olds....or do you question the selection policy of not recruiting more older experianced defenders?
Strangly I am not too upset about this season so far. I know the results have been frustrating but the way the team is playing and the style of their play is really encouraging!
It just need some fine tuning and a few new recuits and next year we could make the final.
Wish list for next season .....a striker with pace! and move Felipe into the pocket behind TWO strikers.....and some decent experianced defenders
It comes with experiance. Not only as an individual but especially as a team. Some of the most glaring defensive lapses have come from the youngsters O'dor and Old.
Can you blame them as 20 year olds....or do you question the selection policy of not recruiting more older experianced defenders?
Strangly I am not too upset about this season so far. I know the results have been frustrating but the way the team is playing and the style of their play is really encouraging!
It just need some fine tuning and a few new recuits and next year we could make the final.
Wish list for next season .....a striker with pace! and move Felipe into the pocket behind TWO strikers.....and some decent experianced defenders
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Its easy to blame the defense but they are put under a heap of
pressure because every team we play has ACRES of space in the
central midfield. Playing 5 across midfield theoretically
should help us close up this space but it seems every time we're
under attack all our players get right back and noone's challenging
for the ball up in the midfield area. This gives teams a heap
of time to take long shots or play in their teammates and its
frustrating to watch us fall into the same routine time and
again. Still these things come with time and I'm confident
that the Phoenix will sort this out sooner or later.
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5 words.... Wynton Rufer for assistant coach
YES PLEASE.
Y ISN'T
HE INVOLVED
Y ISN'T
HE INVOLVED
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Hot topic Agent 47 and some interesting replies too.
Of course we want wins and successive opportunities have gone
begging (grrrr!) but....
Perhaps we need a clear overview of how the Phoenix began
this year before we can criticize the coach and his abilities
for this first season?
Remember most, if not all the other A League teams were
already organised, had recruited players where required and, most
importantly, had a basis of players and staff with all
the previous seasons experience under their belt.
Given the tight timeframe at the start, and a team and
staff with little or no A League experience and a
requirement for Riki to "fill the spaces" without the luxury
of seeing every player's form and abilities through a
season or two, we have had a remarkable run this year.
He has had to work with the players he chose and some haven't
made the grade.On the field all our players haven't stepped up when
it was absolutely critical.
Next year, better key selections hopefully where we need
them and with a years experience under their belts, plus a solid
fanatical fan base (..where we come in!!) who knows what's
possible??
Sir I agree. Like I said, I don't have the answers. I have opinions but opinions are like assholes- everyone has one and they all stink. I was hoping to stir up some positive debate rather than the cliches "Same old Aussies..." or "The referees....."
Ricki probabaly can't coach concentration, but I do think that if he can't he has to go to management and say something to the effect of "That are lacking in a skill that I have no expertise in, we need outside help" Ricki is a delightfully humble man and I'm sure he wouldn't be above that. Why not get in a Gilbert Enoka type person, coach them on key words for 90min concentration. Can it be any worse than thus far?
Heggarty: Did Wynton not pick you for a team at some point and bruise your ego? At least you could offered something substantia like "He is a w**ker because of ..." His pedigree is Oceania footballer of the Century. Yours is...?
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At the moment the Nix is one of the most frustrating teams to
watch. While playing well in the middle third it is not being
converted into many chances and the few chances are not being
converted. Also the team has been found exposed in the back third
as the holding mid fielders have pushed too far orward and are
unable to cover a counter attack. communication still seems to be
aproblem in the defense with two players marking one attacker
leaving a second to ghost in and score.
How to solve these problems so that he team can take advantage
of the good work that is the $64,000 question.
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Only 8 goals in our last 9 games...
"You can never get a bloody tradesman at Easter, it's a wonder Jesus got crucified" - Karl Pilkington
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I think we�re being a little harsh, I too came away from the ground saying that we were sh*t and we don�t have the ability to supply the final ball, our finishing is poor and that we're struggling to concentrate defensively for 90 minutes.
I watched the whole game again this morning on TV and I think we were very, very unlucky. We had a stonewall penalty turned down, a goal disallowed that I personally think should have stood (but that may be as a result of my increasingly worrying one eyedness), their keeper made a great save, we had one cleared off the line, missed an absolute sitter that Cov�s would score 9 out of 10 times, and a ten man Adelaide scored what I think was quite a good goal. We didn't deserve to lose and although that doesn't give us the three points it's what makes football, football. I think that sometimes your team has unlucky days, the term �we was robbed� springs to mind, but that�s what�s great about football, sometimes it�s your team that does the robbing!
I think that when we get the ball on the floor we are starting to look like a very good passing team, still a long way to go, however I think we�ve already come a long way.
danielsleftball2007-12-01 23:44:46
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Simple, lacks a good midfielder, lack a striker who will actually
beat guy and is hungry for it, You watch next year, the $$$ will
come out for a star!!!
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I left teh staduim very dissapointed!! Its almost like that lack
heart you know
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I think we�re being a little harsh, I too came away from the ground saying that we were sh*t and we don�t have the ability to supply the final ball, our finishing is poor and that we're struggling to concentrate defensively for 90 minutes.
I watched the whole game again this morning on TV and I think we were very, very unlucky. We had a stonewall penalty turned down, a goal disallowed that I personally think should have stood (but that may be as a result of my increasingly worrying one eyedness), their keeper made a great save, we had one cleared off the line, missed an absolute sitter that Cov�s would score 9 out of 10 times, and a ten man Adelaide scored what I think was quite a good goal. We didn't deserve to lose and although that doesn't give us the three points it's what makes football, football. I think that sometimes your team has unlucky days, the term �we was robbed� springs to mind, but that�s what�s great about football, sometimes it�s your team that does the robbing!
I think that when we get the ball on the floor we are starting to look like a very good passing team, still a long way to go, however I think we�ve already come a long way.
Agree totally with that. The whole thing would have been
different if we had been given the second penalty which happened
right in front of me and I cant imagine why it wasnt given. Ref
bottled it, simple as that - too soon after the first one.
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5 words.... Wynton Rufer for assistant coach
YES PLEASE. Y ISN'T
HE INVOLVED
Y ISN'T
HE INVOLVEDLined up as coach for Townsville, isn't he? I think he's
already taking a wage as a 'consultant' as well.
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